Phone call by Kuwaiti courier led to bin Laden (& waterboarding didn't lead to Kuwaiti courier)

[Turborama]

Source: AP

(AP) – 21 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

That monitored phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.

=snip=

... in the middle of last year, Ahmed had a telephone conversation with someone being monitored by U.S. intelligence, according to an American official, who like others interviewed for this story spoke only on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive operation. Ahmed was located somewhere away from bin Laden's hideout when he had the discussion, but it was enough to help intelligence officials locate and watch Ahmed.

In August 2010, Ahmed unknowingly led authorities to a compound in the northeast Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where al-Libi had once lived. The walls surrounding the property were as high as 18 feet and topped with barbed wire. Intelligence officials had known about the house for years, but they always suspected that bin Laden would be surrounded by heavily armed security guards. Nobody patrolled the compound in Abbottabad.

Read more: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hzn2dQHiUZBXHeHm6Lv78Uz6SwAA?docId=aaf5f9e12731497d8a3147a0e47899d4

---

Lots more detail at the link.

It's important to add this section about the role torture didn't play in this, as well (seeing as it's a long article I hope this is OK, as it won't take it over the 25% threshold)...

(Khalid Sheikh) Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

1. So it was police work that cracked the case...

as opposed to heating up a soldering iron in a dudes urethra?

The torture fetishists will be devastated, or perhaps completely indifferent.

[Vinee]

2. did you read the article?

because that's not really what I got out of it.

[tclambert]

11. The article is ambiguous on the torture point.

At one point it says, "The revelation that intelligence gleaned from the CIA's so-called black sites helped kill bin Laden was seen as vindication for many intelligence officials who have been repeatedly investigated and criticized."

Then later it said, " Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation."

And the key breakthrough came from electronic intelligence, monitoring of a phone call.

The MSM (I saw it on NBC News) reported that waterboarding did contribute to gathering the information. I think it would be impossible to prove that it did not. The debate over the effectiveness of torture will no doubt continue.

[janet118]

27. I just heard Savannah Guthrie tell an interesting story . . .

According to her, it was KLM's denial that the "courier" had any connection to bin Laden that made intelligence agents suspicious. In other words, the prisoner's attempt to minimize the courier's importance was what made them think they were onto something and that hunch induced them to watch the courier closely for years. Guthrie also claimed the disinformation that came from KLM was not gathered through waterboarding.

Her explanation was quickly squelched by, I think, Chuck Todd. (I was out of room so I couldn't tell who was doing the squelching.)

Although it doesn't confirm Guthrie's take, this article is interesting. Pre-empting the Propaganda

The media drumbeat is definitely beating the "torture is good" mantra. The Bushies are out in full force saying, "See, we were right!" Those few who try to say otherwise will be dismissed as naive.

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. IOW, when someone lies during conventional interrogation, there

are signs, clues, that he is lying, which thereby highlights the importance of what he's lying about.

If someone lies under torture, there is no way of distinguishing the lie for a true fact revealed under torture. Therefore, torture works in favor of the the prisoner, not the interrogator.

ON EDIT:

In my opinion, the "torture works" meme comes from sociopaths who really think that people can't tell when THEY are lying, therefore they think that standard interrogation will never work.

[joshcryer]

3. I don't know why the fucking water boarding meme was spread here.

Kick and recommend.

[jimlup]

12. Darth Cheney was interviewed on ABC and endorsed it. nt

[rainlillie]

22. I don't know either.

[AsahinaKimi]

4. O'Reilly was interviewing some Republican who stated

that it was water boarding that got Bin Ladin. I knew that wasn't true. It sounded more like FOX TALKING POINTS than anything near to truthful. So guess what Bill, you got sold a bill of goods...
and you were gloating over it. More of a Crapfest from Fox News.

[Turborama]

6. I saw an "ex-NYC fire fighter" promulgating that on Faux and then their UK sister channel Sky News

Yesterday morning.

More fool him and O'Lielly, this side of the story is going viral: http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&q=Phone+call+by+Kuwaiti+courier+led+to+bin+Laden&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Hope your friends and family in Japan are doing OK :hi:

[AsahinaKimi]

34. Thank you so much...

My Uncles family is in Osaka are doing fine, however, My parents are presently on a flight to South Korea to return my grandmothers ashes there. She died on Friday.. she was 86, I think. I couldn't go, because my passport expired, but I am holding up okay.. I will miss her.

[Turborama]

38. You're most welcome

Glad to hear the family in Osaka are ok, my sincere condolences on your grandmother's passing away.

I can relate to how you must feel, I live several thousands of miles away from members of my family, too.

:hug:

[Bethany Rockafella]

26. That Republican was Peter King. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

35. Oh yes, thank you...

I saw the video tape on DU earlier, couldn't recall his name.

[leveymg]

5. Extraction of hidden information was never the purpose of waterboarding, suppression of memory was

See, e.g.: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/334 ; http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/09/22/785150/-AP:-CIA-Torture-Damaged-Brains,-Recall-of-9-11-Suspects

[crickets]

37. Interesting. Bookmarked for closer reading later. -nt

[rfranklin]

7. Crawl on Morning Joe claimed waterboarding did it...

I believe it was attributed to Peter King (R-idiot). That's their story and their sticking to it!

[66 dmhlt]

23. Matt Lauer on "Today" this morning implied as much also

But Lauer is a well-documented Teapublican shill (and a real asshole to boot).

[Keith Bee]

8. This is a very important point

I saw Donald Rumsfeld (is there something about the name Donald that makes a man stupid?) on the Today show yesterday morning, not-very-subtly implying that the fascist tactics used at Gitmo greatly aided in tracking bin Laden down. :puke:

[underpants]

9. The talking point was already out o Fox News - Rummy was on Today to repeat

with the Today's show fully knowing why he was on there

[Pacifist Patriot]

19. I've seen Repukes claiming waterboarding brought this about for...

about eighteen hours now. I'm glad to see this story.

[underpants]

10. But but - KSM.. Gitmo ... waterboarding... courier... Bin Laden (no mention of Obama)

aaaaaand we have us a talking point. Well not us - THEM

[AlbertCat]

18. But but - KSM.. Gitmo ... waterboarding... courier... Bin Laden (no mention of Obama)

Pitiful, isn't it? The Right Wing trying to claim responsibility for something they hung out to dry years ago.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[groundloop]

14. Whose kool-aide have you been drinking?

And welcome to your short visit at DU.

[A Physicist]

15. Dead, Half-Dead, and Undead pics at the link

http://www.freakingnews.com/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Pictures--1157.asp

I suppose now you want to see the "long-form" death certificate?

[joshcryer]

16. Welcome to DU!

You'll fit right in!

:sarcasm:

[TownDrunk2]

17. Who was the carrier? :)

[TheBigotBasher]

20. K&R

[Jeneral2885]

21. Sound's like Fredrick Forsyth's

The Afghan.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Afghan-Frederick-Forsyth/dp/0552155047/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304427872&sr=1-1

[yellowcanine]

24. Truth is we will likely never know all the different pieces that pointed to Usama's location.

But from all that I have gleaned over the past several days it appears that it was more "police work" than anything else. Even George Will grudgingly admitted it in his column this morning. Let the Republicans bray. If it really was "waterboarding" how come we didn't crack this nut in 2004-2005, when the "enhanced interrogation" techniques were U.S. policy?

[Iliyah]

25. Well the

corporate media has nothing but gopers on claiming all the glory. They again have taken over the message.

[madrchsod]

28. only 24 fans believe that torture will bring out the truth.

oh well. let them believe in their own delusions while those who deal with reality know the truth.

[tclambert]

33. I always wished for ONE TIME when the tortured suspect gave Jack Bauer a false lead.

Any good operative has a believable fake story ready to give the interrogators in the event of capture. Really good ones have layers of fake stories that would tie investigators in knots and waste huge amounts of manpower chasing down. The tough part is not giving them the fake stories too easily.

Hell, didn't Jack do that any of the many times he was captured?

[Botany]

29. Osama liked Americana Prints?

Who knew ..... :rofl:



Currier and Ives print

[Mitchs Mule]

30. It's EASY to post

I post on Republican web sites. Tea party and the like. I feel That's where the front line is. I am not talking about name calling, even though you need a pretty thick skin. Accurate Information, tact and Digression are important. So it's not for everybody. I real believe you can get through to some people. I'm not saying most
I am so grateful to DU

[Turborama]

31. Digression or discretion?

Or both?

I only ask because, if it's tactfully done, discrete digression sounds like it could be a successful 3 dimensional chess move, if you're trying to 'get through' to Republicans.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Go Apple!

:woohoo:

[AnneD]

39. And Homeland Security....

Sure as hell didn't get the info from sticking their hands up our crotches at the airport!