NYT: N.R.A. Opens an All-Out Drive for Bush and Its Views

[DeepModem Mom]

THE GUN GROUP
N.R.A. Opens an All-Out Drive for Bush and Its Views
By JAMES DAO

Published: April 16, 2004


PITTSBURGH, April 15 — When the National Rifle Association opens its annual meeting here on Friday, it will do more than celebrate hunting, weaponry and the Second Amendment. It will also kick off a vigorous campaign to whip up support among its nearly four million members for President Bush's re-election.

Before tens of thousands of gun owners at the Pittsburgh Convention Center, the association's leadership plans to label Mr. Bush's likely Democratic opponent, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, as a liberal threat to gun ownership. It is a message they will repeat again and again until Election Day, using the Internet, mailings, television advertising and their formidable nationwide network of gun clubs.

"What you see in John Kerry," Wayne LaPierre, the association's executive vice president said in an interview this week, "is a politician that spent his life voting against the Second Amendment. What I see is the same thing I saw in Michael Dukakis and Al Gore. It's an elitist arrogance."

It is no accident, N.R.A. officials said, that this year's convention is being held in Pittsburgh. Two-thirds of the attendees are expected to come from within a 100-mile radius that spans three battleground states: Pennsylvania, which voted for Mr. Gore in 2000, and Ohio and West Virginia, which voted for Mr. Bush....

(Richard Cheney will be the meetings's keynote speaker.)


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/16/politics/campaign/16NRA.html

[Catt03]

1. This is about power and control

This election has nothing to do with the second ammendment and gun ownership. Many Democrats are gun owners and responsible about that ownership. This has to do with power and control and it is an outrage.

What this sounds like is to put the gun issue back on the table and take the attention off this administration's failed leadership. It is a tactic to drive the Democrats to spend money and time on an issue that is not even pertinent to this election.

[bleedingheart]

2. Well when all those gun owners can't find a parking space and

find how miserable it is to drive on Pittsburgh's parkway during congested hours...they may actually decide that mass transit is more important.

Most gun owners hold jobs and the country's lack of the latter may influence their decision more. As one gun owner remarked to me "You can't eat your gun"

[DoNotRefill]

23. You can't eat your gun....

but you can shoot something to eat with your gun.

"Give a man a fish, and he eats dinner. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime."

[Iceburg]

26. On YEE CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS ...

[DoNotRefill]

28. I'm not Christian, just reasonably well-read....

but don't let that get in your way... ;)

[Jivenwail]

3. Sane as the last time

I will never forget the absolutely chilling image of Heston holding up that rifle and saying "out of my cold, dead hands Mr. Gore". I simply will never forget that. And this is no different.

Have these morons not seen Kerry hunting? What is about owning AK 47's and the like do these people not understand? What is about registration and background checks do they not understand? Do they not remember Columbine and how those boys got those guns????

Just last week, here in Chesapeake, VA a mother shot herself and her two teenage children with a gun she bought at the Bass Outdoor Pro Shop up in Hampton. This was a woman with mental problems, who had been committed in a state facility! Now she is dead and 2, innocent children are dead.

Again, what is about these things does the NRA not get???? They make me sick.

[AskAlice]

6. Have these morons not seen Kerry hunting?

I think the argument for guns is not so much about hunting but about the concern for sneaky laws that add more restrictions to law abiding and mentally fit citizens.

Kerry has at least three stances going against him...
1 registration and licensing of handgun owners
2 safety locks for handguns
3 a limit of one-handgun purchase per month per person

Law abiding citizens have no need for these type of laws.

[Gman]

10. It's a privlege to own and use a gun

Why do you think Kerry's stances go against him? There is no God-given right to own a gun. No where is it stated anyone in the US has a right to a gun. Kerry's proposals are common sense based. If someone has a problem with the 3 things you outline, I feel this persosn is likely a very irresponsible person with no regard for others.s

[ultramega]

12. I second.

The three stances sound perfectly reasonable to me.

These are the "ellipses people", who put ... in place of the part of the second amendment that they don't like.

The thing is, I bet very few illegal arms dealers and militia people post on D.U.

This whole pro-gun thing is just so much masturbation.

What they really need is therapy to deal with their childhood issues of why they are so abnormally fearful. Maybe they should do the gun law that way, for every gun over the 1 per month limit, an hour of therapy is required.

[NickB79]

19. Um, you might want to re-read that old piece of paper lying over there

I believe its called the Amendments to the US Constitution. But I can guess where that will go: "The 2nd Amendment talks about the right of the National Guard to carry firearms, not private citizens." If that issue does come up, I would ask where else in the Amendments to the US Constitution does an amendment guarantee a right to anyone other than a private citizen?

I feel that anyone who thinks those three things suggested will do anything to stop crime are living a dream world.

"1 registration and licensing of handgun owners"

A federal database registering guns is illegal under federal law (it was enacted in 1986, I believe). Secondly, what effect would registering a legal gun owner have on crime? You think many of the guns used in crimes are used by the legal owners of said guns? How many criminals with previous felony convictions on their record can legally own firearms? Also, I think it would be wise to read a bit about Canada's latest foray into gun registration. They enacted a law requiring all guns be registered in 1999-2000, I believe, with horrible consequences. Compliance rates have been low, the projected $2-5 million dollar annual cost has already ballooned to over $1 billion, and several provinces have already stated they will no longer enforce the law unless major steps to rectify it are undertaken. $1 billion could have put a lot more police on the streets, with much greater effect on crime than this registration law.

"2 safety locks for handguns"

There is nothing at all wrong with suggesting greater use of safety locks on firearms. I feel responsible parents should do so. The problem lies in making it a legal requirement to maintain safety locks on your guns at all times when not in use. How do you enforce such a law without violating someone's right to privacy through doing unannounced spot-checks? Furthermore, this negates one of the main reasons many people purchase firearms: self-defense. A gun with a trigger lock on it is hardly a readily accessible weapon for defense. It also does nothing to prevent the gun from being used in a crime later on if it were stolen, as you can cut through the trigger guard with a hacksaw in a matter of minutes and pop off the trigger lock. A little JB Weld and you can even reattach the trigger guard. As I recall, one of the school shootings that occurred before Columbine (in Georgia?) involved two kids breaking into their grandfather's locked gun cabinet to get their firearms. I doubt a safety lock would have stopped them if they had the determination to go that far.

"3 a limit of one-handgun purchase per month per person"

Since when has it been acceptable or legal to ration one's Constitutional rights? Replace the above phrase with "one-free speech usage per month" and see how absurd that sounds. One online post here at DU per month, or one letter to the editor of the newspaper per month, anyone?

[Gman]

29. I was baiting AskAlice

the now tombstoned freeper with that post! He/she didn't bite but is still tombstoned nevertheless.

[DoNotRefill]

22. Horsecrap.

There's a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. God doesn't enter into it. Guns are arms. The right belongs to the People, not the State. It's not a privelege to own a gun, just as people don't have a privelege to vote. In both cases, people can lose the right to vote and to keep and bear arms by doing certain things, like being convicted of a felony or being adjudicated mentally defective.

[Blue_Tires]

21. hello Jivenwail!!

I'm from Va Beach originally (live in MD now)

[DoNotRefill]

24. What's wrong with hunting with an AK-47?

Most, if not all, legal (and by legal I mean semi-automatic) AK clones come from the factory with 5 round magazines, and it's quite legal to hunt in VA with an AK clone as long as you are using a 5 round magazine.

As for the Columbine shooters, they broke at least half a dozen laws before the set foot on school property that day. If they're willing to break the law, what good is passing MORE laws going to do to stop them? It's like "double secret probation" as opposed to regular probation...It doesn't mean shit, except to people who obey the law.

I don't have a problem with background checks, provided that they're done in an appropriate manner. I have a huge problem with registration.

With the woman in Chesapeake, how is what she did with a gun significantly worse than what that woman in Texas who killed two of her kids with a rock, or the woman who drowned her 5 kids in the bathtub, or the woman who put her two kids in their safety seats and then rolled the car into the lake?

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. Weren't there any good Ashcroft quotes that can be used to show the

N.R.A. members that Ashcroft is opening a door that will eventually lead to them?

[RhodaGrits]

5. Ashcroft does not believe that the Constitution protects an

individual's right to own a gun, only to form a militia. He signed off that they he wouldn't let his personal feelings step in the way of his job early on. Bush also supports the renewal of the assault weapons ban (automatic weapons actually were banned in 1938 or so per a gun toting friend of mine who swears this law is redundant) but they keep pointing to Kerry's support of it as a sign of his anti-gun stance. I have been arguing the gun angle w/ some family members and friends and I would like to hear any facts I can use in the battle.

[DeepModem Mom]

8. A recent article reported some gun owners not happy with Bush -

LA Times:

Gun Groups May Not Be Bush Campaign Weapon

"Surprisingly, the issues that have most alienated many gun groups from the Bush administration have little to do with firearms, but rather with the Patriot Act and other homeland security measures instituted after Sept. 11. Opposition to such laws has aligned gun-rights activists with unlikely partners, such as liberal Democrats and the ACLU."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-na-gunpolitics13apr13,1,2467557.story?coll=la-home-headlines

And from the NYT article:

"The boost from the rifle association also comes at an opportune time for Mr. Bush, who is facing unexpectedly sharp criticism from some gun rights activists for his position on a federal ban of assault weapons."

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. so tell me again why we need to soften our stance on gun control?

If people are making guns their lone voting criteria, they'll go with Republicans 10 times out of 10.

And frankly, they should.

[ultramega]

14. True, but they won't if they know what's good for them.

I hope it is getting out about Ashcroft's idea to bug broadband, because the gun guys that have the most to lose from this do an awful lot on the internet that they surely don't want the gov't to know about.

The canned hunt rich SOB's are probably the only one's with nothing to loose from the Patriot act.

[DoNotRefill]

25. There are a lot of people who should vote Democratic...

who don't because of the Party's national anti-gun position. Take blue-collar union gun owners. It's a hot-button issue to a LOT of voters, and is one we should stay far away from. This doesn't necessarily mean becoming pro-gun, but just leave the issue the fuck alone.

If Gore hadn't pushed his FOID plan, he'd probably have taken Tenn, his home state, or West Virginia, which is generally Democratic but very pro-gun, and then Florida wouldn't have mattered.

We've been kicked in the teeth over and over again on this issue. Sooner or later, we'll learn from our mistakes, hopefully.

[Beetwasher]

9. The Big Question: RNC is Trying to Shut Down MOVEON

because of their influence, but they have no problem w/ the NRA?

OY!

[alarimer]

20. NRA is forming a "NEWS" network

I guess the FEC and FCC would have no problem with that but if MOVEON decided to form a news network, they would have a big problem with it. My guess is NRA news would be all right-wing propaganda, all the time. They are mostly a right-wing mouthpiece nowadays anyway.

[leesa]

11. I guess the gun owners want to hand over their guns to the government

If they think the Bush regime is going to allow it's citizenry to be armed under the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, they are crazy. Very ignorant people.

[Zynx]

13. Authoritarian regimes always get rid of private gun ownership.

Always

[DoNotRefill]

15. What's so stupid....

is that we've let this become an issue at all. The NRA could have and SHOULD have been completely marginalized this campaign cycle.

[FeebMaster]

16. It will be funny, in a way,

if(when) Bush signs some unpleasant gun control. It wouldn't seem right if he didn't, after his father and Reagan. I'm sure Republican voters will still go on pretending that Republican politicians are pro-gun.

[gulfcoastliberal]

17. I'll Out Myself: I'm a Gun Owner

And from what I can tell, you can still get pretty much any kind of weapon if you've got the dough. I think this should be a state issue, such as California having stricter regulations on what can be bought these days. But it's only a "state's rights" issue when it suits the repugs: gay marraige and decriminalizing pot shouldn't be decided by states - noooo the feds need to decide that for everyone. And the reason I'm now a gun owner is because I feel uneasy - I'll leave it at that.

[Democat]

18. NRA vs. Move On - which one does John McCain want out of government?

I wonder if it's the one that isn't helping his party?

[Rex]

27. Fools

If these people even whiffed of being a threat to the BFEE, all their guns would be outlawed, confiscated and destroyed. They should be NEUTRAL but no...the GOP loves ignorance and obviously they've found a home in the NRA senior ranks.

GOP NRA members are sheeple.

[porkrind]

30. Ignorant tools of the GOP

These stupid f*cking rednecks are one of the reasons why we now have to put up * in the white house. They are willing stooges, falling for a wedge issue. The GOP doesn't really give a crap about gun control except that they know they can stir up these rednecks by a little fearful demagoguery. Single-issue voters like gun-nuts or pro-lifers would rather * destroy America and the World than give in.

GOP tools. Too bad half the population has a below-average IQ. They must be in that half. :)

[DoNotRefill]

32. Why thank you.

I'm a NRA life member. I joined many, many years ago, around the same time that I joined the ACLU. I prefer to vote Democratic. With local and state races, that's generally not a problem, since most of my local and state Democrats are either endorsed outright by the NRA, or given a neutral rating.

Oh, as for being a "stupid fucking redneck", I'd qualify to join MENSA (but don't, because the MENSA members I've met tend to be sanctimonious little pricks caught up in their so-called intellectual "superiority", and I try not to associate with people like that). I've got a Juris Doctorate from a "first tier" law school with an excellent national reputation. Where did you get your doctorate from again?

I don't agree with everything the NRA does, but they DO perform many valuable services, especially in firearms education. Almost ALL police officers are trained to use firearms by NRA certified instructors.

"Single-issue voters like gun-nuts or pro-lifers would rather * destroy America and the World than give in."

I'm curious as to your position on single-issue pro-choice voters. Do they want to destroy the world too? Or are they different because they're on OUR side?

Civil rights are not open to negotiation, even if you don't like the civil right in question, or the results of the exercise of the civil right.

Thus I'm often torn as to who to vote for nationally. Should I vote for candidate A who wants to gut portion B of the Bill of Rights, or vote for candidate C who wants to gut portion D of the Bill of Rights?

I'm reaching the point that I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils...

[w4rma]

31. The police and the military should not be the only folks legally allowed

to protect themselves with a gun. Imho, the Democratic leadership should jettison the gun-control issue as there are ***way*** more important issues at hand than pushing for more government power over an individuals right to protect themself with a gun.

People who are ardently pro-gun control are going to vote Democratic anyways.

That said, the NRA leadership has been taken over by Republicans are using the power of their positions to smear Dems as totalitarian gun-grabbers while while putting Repuke politicians on pedestals. Democrats need to get in this organization and recover it from these fools, imho. Many members of the NRA are not partisan Republicans, but joined the NRA to fund helping protect the 2nd amendment and for the benefits that the NRA gives.