US admits it used napalm bombs in Iraq

[Newsjock]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=432201

By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
10 August 2003

American pilots dropped the controversial incendiary agent napalm on Iraqi troops during the advance on Baghdad. The attacks caused massive fireballs that obliterated several Iraqi positions.

The Pentagon denied using napalm at the time, but Marine pilots and their commanders have confirmed that they used an upgraded version of the weapon against dug-in positions. They said napalm, which has a distinctive smell, was used because of its psychological effect on an enemy.

... The upgraded weapon, which uses kerosene rather than petrol, was used in March and April, when dozens of napalm bombs were dropped near bridges over the Saddam Canal and the Tigris river, south of Baghdad.

"We napalmed both those (bridge) approaches," said Colonel James Alles, commander of Marine Air Group 11. "Unfortunately there were people there ... you could see them in the (cockpit) video. They were Iraqi soldiers. It's no great way to die. The generals love napalm. It has a big psychological effect."

... The revelation that napalm was used in the war against Iraq, while the Pentagon denied it, has outraged opponents of the war.

more

[NYC]

1. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

.

[short bus president]

2. I shouldn't be either, but DAMN!

How many more atrocities? How much fucking worse does this get?!?

Napalm has a great (as in "large magnitude") psychological impact on the troops who are ordered to use it on other people, too. Every day, I find myself able to be just a little more disgusted.

[NYC]

5. Is napalm illegal?

I'm not implying that would make a difference to George Bush. I'm just wondering if napalm has been outlawed by the Geneva Convention or some other organization.

[Newsjock]

8. Not illegal for U.S.

"A 1980 UN convention banned the use against civilian targets of napalm, a terrifying mixture of jet fuel and polystyrene that sticks to skin as it burns. The US, which did not sign the treaty, is one of the few countries that makes use of the weapon. It was employed notoriously against both civilian and military targets in the Vietnam war."

[JohnKleeb]

14. umm excuse me *playing role of Helen Thomas right now*

We were terrifed to see how the Japanese treated our POWs in WWII and were able to get away with it just because they didnt sign the Geneva convention and we didnt like how the Iraqis treated our POWs, so we should sign this right? *Ari's sucessor Scott* You are a tratior next question.

[JohnKleeb]

3. some liberation now I flip off George

FU dubya.

[Booberdawg]

4. Whoa! n/t

[kskiska]

6. Remember how they were complaining

that the Iraqis weren't fighting fair?

[0007]

13. Rumsfield was upset that the Iraqis

got a hold of some night vision goggles.

This is truely a nasty man that belongs in the Hague.

[JohnKleeb]

15. to quote my grandfather

that man is a mother fucking son of a bitch, I wont say what else he said because it well lets just say I am afraid of something. Hey Rummy when President Kucinich becomes president we're joining the world court, cant wait to see you and the others in their new orange jumpsuits :hi: Rummy bye Rummy.

[pinniped]

7. Here is an article about "napalm" being phased out from the US arsenal:

Military Says Goodbye to Napalm
Pentagon recycles remaining stock of a notorious weapon

If any one picture symbolizes the horror of the Vietnam War, it's the photo of a naked 9-year-old named Kim Phuc fleeing her village and screaming in pain from the napalm unleashed by a South Vietnamese plane minutes before.

The girl survived, after 17 operations. Napalm didn't. As of today, the Pentagon says it is gone from the U.S. arsenal.

Napalm, a syrupy kind of jellied gasoline, was used in Vietnam to burn forests and villages and people, without discrimination. It burned through everything, at more than 5,000 degrees, and it stuck to people and then burned some more, sometimes down to the bone.

And the TV images stuck, too: jets zooming in, almost on the deck, and, in their wake, whole tracts of jungle erupting in enormous orange fireballs, the oily smoke roiling upwards.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/04/04/MN201419.DTL

So if I'm understanding this correctly, napalm was phased out from the US arsenal but an upgraded version of the weapon was not.

I guess now we know why it was phased out. To make room for a new more efficient killing weapon.

[salin]

18. More accurately... in an effort to decieve the public

"Napalm" was declared to be phased out - but in reality it was just a technicality. They upgraded - and decided to make good PR out of the event when they got rid of the old.

Looks like the Office of Public Disinformation (er... Office of Strategic Information) that Rummy announced had been formed in the Pentagon just after the beginning of the Afghan war - actually got to work quite a bit earlier - at least by the Spring of 2001.

[w13rd0]

9. I guess I can update my...

..."What qualifies a nation as a rogue regime?" quiz now...

Instead of, "If a nation professes an eager willingness to employ chemical or biological weapons, it's likely a rogue regime."

I can now have, "If a nation uses chemical or biological weapons, denies their use, and then fesses up later, it's likely a rogue regime."

[WindRavenX]

10. Disgusting

This horrible weapon has no place in this world. To continue using it is simply unhuman.
We still won't sign the Land Mine Ban will we?
But, perhaps the saddest fact is that I am not shocked to find this out :(

[reticulatus]

11. and cluster bombs?

If they didn't worry about using cluster bombs, then why would they have scuples about napalm? They can't be accused or running a double standard! </sarcasm off>

[Karenina]

12. And maybe even trying out

a couple of them new-fangled "bunker busters" in Afghanistan...?

[Darranar]

16. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone...

This administration has used atrocities for psychological effect before in Iraq, in the "Shock and awe" campaign. I wonder how many innocent civilians were slaughtered in the bombing of Baghdad? More than 400, I'd guess.

[realFedUp]

17. Dow Chemical and Union Carbide merge...made napalm

(are there other companies making this stuff now?)

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/aug1999/chem-a06.shtml

Dow and Union Carbide to merge: two companies that have profited from the deaths of thousands
Comment by Martin McLaughlin
6 August 1999

Dow Chemical and Union Carbide announced a corporate merger Wednesday, with Dow acquiring control of the smaller firm through a stock swap and assuming its debts, in a deal worth $11.6 billion.

Dow and Union Carbide are corporations responsible for some of worst atrocities inflicted by American capitalism on the working people of the world. Dow became notorious as the manufacturer of napalm and Agent Orange, the chemicals used by the US military in the Vietnam War to incinerate villages and defoliate the countryside. Union Carbide caused the single worst industrial disaster in history, the toxic chemical leak in Bhopal, India that killed as many as 10,000 people and injured 200,000.

[DemonFighterLives]

19. Anything that Kills

More. better. faster seems ok with this bunch. I used to think Rummy was kind of funny until he started his comedy routine while announcing
killing in Iraq. Somebody or all of them need to be held accountable.

[newyawker99]

23. Hi DemonFighterLives!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[diamond14]

20. from the chemist:, demo's videos of thermite (napalms's fire)

It really upsets me that our military takes every GOOD scientific effort, and turns it into a monstrous destruction....

here's a little primer on Napalm...

the "old-time" napalm was made from Naphthenate (comes from coal tar pitch), and Palmitate (comes from palm oil or other oils/fats)...
these chemicals are also called "Naphthenic Acids" and "Palmitic Acids"...each chemical is actually a mixture of chemicals, so there are manufacturing problems in different batches...the word Na-Palm comes from these two chemicals...these two are mixed together and co-precipitated with Aluminum as "Aluminum Soap" (your handsoap is co-precipitated animal fat with Sodium)...then White Phosphorus (an oxidizer) is used to ignite it...gasoline is used as the solvent with added benzene to fuel the flame...the end result is a flaming explosion of metal and plastic...

the "new and improved" napalm is made from polystyrene (the plastic commonly used in packing materials, and white plastic coffee cups), which replaces the old-time palm oils and coal tar pitch.... polystyrene can be controlled better in manufacturing and fuels a BIGGER and LONGER flinging fire of molten metals and plastics....the ignition (and metals) is now done with THERMITE (instead of Phosphorus)...this THERMITE reaction is often used for high school chemistry classes, because it is so spectacular...demo videos of just the Thermite reaction is shown on the link below...but, remember when you watch these: for napalm, there is added polystyrene and a solvent (benzene, gasoline, jet fuel, etc.), so there is a prolonged and MUCH BIGGER flaming explosion of hot metal and flaming plastic...it's a horrorible tormentuous prolonged painful death... (only our military could create so much horror out of so many good chemicals - cut the pentagoons funding ASAP - stop their madness...and our military has even worse than this because KILLING is all they do)...

(and DO NOT conduct these reactions at home, it's very dangerous for uneducated people, ask YOUR chemistry teacher to do it...)

link to THERMITE reactions...
http://www.thecatalyst.org/other/thermite/

[Big_Mike]

24. We used to...

make "Field Flame Expedients" using common items from the supermarket and gasoline when I was in the Army in Panama. (In the interests of safety, I do not mention the items. I will not aid some young idiot in burning him/herself to death). There are military thickening agents, but it was "good training" to go downtown, buy everything, and mix it up on the range. We'd fill a 55 gal. drum with the stuff, and set it off. We'd generally use it to clear underbrush from the jungle when we wanted to build a new building for a village. Set it off at the end of the village, and it would clear out about 100 X 35 yards at at time.

I agree, it's a tough way for a person to go, but not really not much worse than being stuck inside a burning helicopter or a personnel carrier. If the idea is to kill the opponent, it gets the job done.

Big_Mike

[snippy]

21. "Unfortunately there were people there." This phrase may be the

unifying principle of all Bush decisions on all questions of foreign and domestic policy. It seems to apply to everything Bush has done.

[Raenelle]

22. Well, it's one, two, three, what are we fightin' for

I am so ashamed.

[diamond14]

25. "I Thought We Would Never Use Napalm Again"

http://jamesglaser.org/2003/p20030806.html

by James Glaser

-snips-

Washington talks about how evil Saddam Hussein was. Well now, with America admitting the use of Napalm and firebombs on Iraqi troops, the whole world can talk about how evil George Bush is.

I saw many Vietnamese people with burns from napalm and I also got to see some ARVIN troops kill about ten villagers that were burned so bad that we couldn't tell if they were men or women and the sounds they were making were just horrible.

You want to talk about weapons of mass destruction, well napalm is a bad one. When used on a populated area it is a real killer that inflicts untold pain. We won't trust other countries to have evil weapons, but we have them and we use them. What the heck is George Bush telling the rest of the world by using napalm? If I lived any place other than America, I would be petitioning my government to get every weapon of mass destruction they could, just out of fear of Bush and the USA.

There is no doubt in my mind at all, that George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld will rot in hell for eternity for allowing the use of this weapon again. I don't care if Saddam Hussein gassed twenty million or a hundred million people, for the United States to stoop so low that we would use this totally evil weapon again, after what we learned they did to people in Vietnam, is just sick and I hope and pray that this is a War Crime and these two are charged.

[EFF BrandyWine]

26. I never cease to be amazed-

at the banality of evil.

[TheReligiousLeft]

27. Definition

Note:
"The Pentagon said it had not tried to deceive. It drew a distinction between traditional napalm, first invented in 1942, and the weapons dropped in Iraq, which it calls Mark 77 firebombs. They weigh 510lbs, and consist of 44lbs of polystyrene-like gel and 63 gallons of jet fuel.

Officials said that if journalists had asked about the firebombs their use would have been confirmed. A spokesman admitted they were "remarkably similar" to napalm but said they caused less environmental damage."

Republicans were angry about the definition of the word is, when dealing with sexual stuff, but I bet they don't even bat an eye about Napalm vs Mark 77

[JPace]

28. "The Pentagon said it had not tried to deceive."

Oh right!......again it is not their fault, it is that
the question was not accurate enough. Let's see....there
is "traditional napalm" (that's out) and then there is
the "Mark 77 Firebombs" (that's in).

I suppose when they use nuclear bunker busters it will
be denied because they will be renamed "Mark 88 Dirt Diggers"