Nader, Dean to Debate if Ralph Should Run

[Khephra]

WASHINGTON -- Among the debate topics: Should Ralph run for president? The participants: Howard Dean and a candidate who always has an opinion on the subject -- independent Ralph Nader.

Dean, the former Democratic presidential hopeful who attracted legions of liberal followers before his bid fizzled out, will debate Nader for 90 minutes on July 9 before a studio audience.

National Public Radio's weekly program "Justice Talking" is sponsoring the debate, and correspondent Margot Adler will moderate.

Dean has been urging his supporters not to back Nader, but to stay within the Democratic fold and vote for John Kerry,

"I am anxious to debate Ralph Nader in order to speak about why he wants to run for president," Dean said in a statement. "This is the most important election in my lifetime and a third party candidate could make a difference -- this November and for years to come."

more....................

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-nader-dean,0,4156678.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

[cjbuchanan]

1. Go Dean!

Dean showing that he will do everything he can to get Kerry in the WH.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

3. Yes, Dean is showing he's a team player.

This is very helpful to Democrats although not necessarily to Dean's own career. See, Ralph? This is an example of putting your principles before your ego. I have so much respect for Dean for doing this.

[dzeih]

5. actually...

this is a case of putting one's party above his principles. Huge difference.

[cjbuchanan]

12. I don't think so

Dean has said again and again the Ralph has ever right to run and should if he wants to. However, Dean supports Kerry and agrees with him on a lot of issues.

Dean is not putting his party over his principles, he is standing up for what he believes in.

By the way, welcome to DU!

[LoZoccolo]

13. Ba ha ha ha ha!

As opposed to putting a party you don't belong to above your principles, eh?

REPUBLICANS FOR NADER!

WIN BEN STEINS MONEY!

LET'S GET THOSE PETITIONS SIGNED!

[dzeih]

16. how do you figure?

I don't follow your reasoning. Are you referring to Nader with the Greens? Hasn't he repeatedly said that the Green platform has no influence on him?

[LoZoccolo]

18. Oh geez please! PLEASE! I FEAR FOR MY COUNTRY!

Hello! Nader is being heavily propped up by Republicans! Wonder why that is; hello!

[dzeih]

20. That has nothing to do with principles

that's about politics. Hello! Don't confuse the two. Hello!

[LoZoccolo]

22. Getting Bush* elected is not a principle of mine or Dean's.

I'd say that's pretty principled of him.

[dzeih]

25. the ends justify the means?

Seems pretty neoconnish if you ask me.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

26. only if there is something unethical about the means themselves

What is unethical about supporting the Democratic candidate?

[dzeih]

27. hmmmm

What is unethical about trying to convert Iraq to a democracy?

[chimpy the poopthrower]

28. I don't see your point n/t

[LoZoccolo]

29. Your "means" toward "taking a stand" is "getting Bush* elected".

Touche.

[dzeih]

31. Nader doesn't want Bush elected...

He wants his voice to be heard. Instead, the Dems seem to be moving farther and farther right every election cycle since Reagan.

[LoZoccolo]

35. He can make his voice heard all he wants to...

...without getting Bush* elected.

Plus, he said last time he wouldn't campaign in swing states and yet he did. Plus he spoiled New Hampshire and Florida. He knows he'll do that again.

Plus, if you're concerned about any rightward shift, it's irrational to think getting Bush* elected will do anything but encourage that. If the far-left vote proves that it can't be reasoned with, I imagine the Democratic Party will look elsewhere for people that can.

And why be concerned about a rightward shift, then turn around and elect a right-wing leader?

[creeksneakers2]

37. Kerry is about as far left as you can get in the mainstream

Kerry isn't for universal healthcare but he's for getting most of the uninsured on the rolls. Every other plan resulted in an electoral disaster.

Kerry is turning Iraq over to international troops as soon as possible and getting out. So is Nader. (Neither one is realistic)

Ralph hates corporate welfare. Kerry will set up a commission to review all of it.

There really isn't that much difference between Kerry and Ralph, except one is a Republican and one is a Democrat.

[dzeih]

39. well

Bush is trying to get more international troops into Iraq as well. Kerry voted to authorize Bush to go into this mad war.

Nader is the anti-war candidate.

[LoZoccolo]

41. Bahahahaha!

Easy for him to say when he didn't even have to vote on it.

Plus you can promise you're gonna do anything and not break said promise if you're never gonna get elected.

[LoZoccolo]

30. Also, supporting Nader is unprincipled.

Seeing as major planks of his seem to be:

- There is little difference between the parties.
- Gore would have started the war.
- He will take more votes away from Bush* than Kerry.

These are all lies so far. Dean is taking a principled stand by combatting these lies.

[dzeih]

32. hmmmm

I haven't heard him say those last two things. The first comment he has said. And the Dems are moving farther and farther right. They aren't as bad as the Reps yet, but they are definitely going that way.

[janx]

36. Ralph is toast.

Especially now that Dean's going to debate him.

He's about to start gathering some serious dust.

[dzeih]

38. Dean gambling

this is a serious risk by the Dems. If Dean attacks Nader or Nader comes across as sympathetic to Americans, Kerry is in deep doo-doo.

[janx]

40. Dean probably has some serious questions he'd like to

ask Nader. I don't consider that gambling, and I doubt many other people do.

Honest debate is good.

[DFLforever]

15. Dean's first principle is defeating Bush

He's made that clear from his first day in the race.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

17. I disagree.

I suppose you are one of those who believe that any true progressive still in the Democratic Party is selling out his/her principles. But I see Nader as the real sellout. I have no innate loyalty to the Democratic Party. I simply understand that the Democratic Party is the best hope for achieving the principles I believe in. It's not a case of putting the party ahead of my principles. It's a matter of finding the best means to achieve my ends. Incidentally, one of the principles I believe in is compromise and cooperation; I believe that sometimes it is necessary for people who don't agree 100% to set aside smaller differences in order to work together for a greater good. Another principle I believe in is paying one's dues and running on a record. I don't like the idea of somebody rich and famous trying to start at the top. I'd have more respect for Nader if he ran for Congress or some lesser office, showed us what he can do, and then moved up later. Nader has as much public servant experience as Schwarzenegger, which is none at all.

[CatWoman]

43. aren't you the same guy who posted the Howard Stern flamebait

in GD??

[LoZoccolo]

2. YEEAAAAAAAARGH!

:bounce:

I hope this is good. If I was up there against Nader I'd be tempted to be like AAAAAAAAH WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING WILL YOU QUIT FUCKEN LYING AAAAAAAAH!

[LoZoccolo]

7. To clarify, I'd be tempted to be like...

AAAAAAAAH GET OUT OF HERE KARATE CHOP YOU AAAAAAAAH!

[LoZoccolo]

11. Or maybe like...

GET OUT OF HERE TWO DOORS FIND ONE OF THEM AND LEAVE AAAAAAAAH!

[janx]

33. This is SO FUNNY! n/t

[chimpy the poopthrower]

21. hee hee

:D love it!

[Generator]

4. Wow.

If anyone can kick Ralph's ass, it's Dean. Yeah, baby. Get him.

[prolesunited]

6. This would be fun to watch!

I hope CSPAN covers it

[janx]

34. I think it's NPR.

But we can certainly listen to it!

[bhunt70]

8. sweet!

Dean was never my first pick for president but he is seriously an asset for the party. I say he takes McCauliffes job, hopefully.

[struggle4progress]

9. Make it a three way debate with the Greens ...

'cuz I want to hear EVERYBODY's opinion about whether Pat LaMarche can vote for herself in good conscience.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=655695

[chimpy the poopthrower]

23. I like that idea!

:toast:

And let's see Nader try to come up with a reason the Greens shouldn't be invited to the debate!

[theivoryqueen]

10. Clash of the "me-too's" ??

Okay - flame away.

[Rose Siding]

45. WSJ poll: Bush 45%, Kerry 44%, Nadar 4%

Someone needs to debate Nadar. I wish Kerry would have dealt with him, but he hasn't.

[Just Me]

14. Hopefully, I will be able to listen to it.

I enjoy listening to debates and this one would likely be pretty intense.

[janx]

24. Intense, yes!

I'll be visiting a friend (out of state), and I'm sure everyone there will want to hear it!

YEEEAAARRGHH!

[janx]

19. YEEEAAAARRGGHH!!!!

[nose pin]

42. This doesn't make much sense

Why would Nader, a candidate, debate with Dean, a non-candidate? Unless it's his only chance to be in a nationally covered debate. Unless he is using Dean, and plans to make him go ballistic, making Nader look like the reasonable one...

If I was the Kerry campaign, I would have stayed clear of this, and ignored Nader.

[11cents]

44. I agree; it's not a good idea tactically

I don't have any questions about Dean's principles (and he's not going to go ballistic); I just think it's a bad choice. It's not going to change minds, certainly not Nader's. It'll just give Nader the attention-glutton what he craves. He loves seeing Democrats wring their hands over him and his intentions.

[Tight_rope]

46. Dean will blow Nadar out of this plant! n/t