Nader will be in by January

[Nambe]

U.S. News & World Report

--- Yes, he’s probably going to run for president again. Over cereal Thursday morning, he said the decision will come “by the end of the year.” But he’s already planning and scheming for a run, either as an independent or Green Party candidate. Does he think he has a chance? Nader puts it this way: “If I was able to get on all the state ballots … and if I was able to get in all of the debates, there’d be a good chance for a three-way race. And if the debates were not just sterile parallel interviews, if they were really varied debates worthy of the name, there’s a chance of a three-way race.” Why run? He thinks President Bush and most Democrats are ignoring the very kind of corporate corruption he hates.

[LisaM]

1. Yeah, yeah, and Al Gore "cost him the election."

With the Dean meetups available for free, I doubt that old gravel voice will be able to pull in any suckers at $10 a pop. He blew his fifteen minutes a long time ago.

[MidwestTransplant]

2. Sounds like he is the best person to rally the Dem. base!

to go out and vote against him and Bush!

[Dhalgren]

3. Personally, I perfer Kucinich

and his ideas and plans. But the more people we have out making the case for what a screwed up solcial system we the better. I hope he kicks some corporate ass!

[qandnotq]

4. so enter the Dem primary

you egomaniac idiot.

[LiberalLibra]

8. Enter the Dem primary?? You expect Nader to really go toe to toe.....

....with Bush like the others are willing to do?? That is simply NOT Nader's style. He would much rather be more of a pain in the neck than a real candidate.

[Loonman]

5. Here we go again..

pfffffffffffft.

[expatriot]

6. I voted for Nader in 96 and 00 but this is just insane...

I am willing to admit that I was wrong in 2000, I was so naive and innocently idealistic. The only Democrat I would think about NOT voting for is Lieberman. And note I said "think about."

[diplomats]

21. I hope other Nader voters feel the same way you do

Too much is at stake in 2004.

[chadm]

54. right, more is at stake than ever...

That's why I've volunteered in the Nader campaign. The Dems had their chance...now it's our turn.

[The Magistrate]

58. Voting Republican In '04, Are You, Dear?

[chadm]

73. Spinning like Ascroft are ya, dear?

[The Magistrate]

You Like Having That Wretch For Attorney General, Do You, Dear?

Go out and work your little heart out to keep there: vote Ralph!

[sangh0]

103. Nader isn't worried about Ashcroft, so why are you?

"Let's see what really happens. Ashcroft is going to be a prisoner of bureaucracy." -- Common Dreams 4-03-2001


http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/quotes

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TLM]

102. Your turn to what... makes ure we have 4 more years of Bush?

Ralphie would love that, because it would give him 4 more years to cling to relevance by railing against a boogie man he helps to keep in power.

I bet most of the greens won't even have Ralph this time, which is why he is floating the independent idea.

I see lots of greens who like Dean and Kucinich and also like the idea of changing the Democratic Party from within. Nader has no real desire for political change, he simply wants to be an "outsider" attacking the whole system and the process so he never has to worry about actually doing anything to solve problems.

[JackSwift]

25. expatriot is to be commended

Not many people will own up to this mistake. I seriously applaud your way of thinking!

[jono]

27. I'm with you

Being in a Gore "safe state," I cast my ballot for Nader in 2000. I vote according to my conscience and didn't appreciate being told I should do otherwise.

This time around, my conscience is screaming, "Nader is a spoiler!" There is WAY too much at stake now. So I can vote for the Dem and still be voting my conscience.

[nocreativename]

42. I too made that mistake

I learned the hard way that there is a huge diffrence between repubs and Demos.

Nader needs to just stay out. I agree I would for anyone but lieberman and bush.

[joeunderdog]

53. Nader will be a non-factor and will hurt his own party's cridibility.

If he wants to stroke his ego, he can be a hero for stepping aside and telling his constituents to start voting Anyone-But-Bush/Dem. If he runs, he'll not steal many votes from liberals who doesn't worry that the world is going to hell under Dubya. He should make a deal for a meaningful post from the Dems, and step back.

[RDANGELO]

7. How bad does **** have to get,

How bad does **** have to get for Nader to keep from running as a third party candidate. This is the first *president to lose over two million jobs sice Hoover. He has embarked in a preemptive war with a justification that didn't exist.We have a continuing disaster in Iraq where American servicemen are dying every day. We have gone from a substantial budget surpless to huge budget deficit in just two years. Ralph was not on the ballot in my state in the last presidential election ; if he was I would have voted for him. I almost guarantee I will vote for the Democratic nominee this time. It is imperative that this man is put out of office.

[UpInArms]

18. 3.82 million long term unemployed

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030710/bs_nm/economy_jobless_dc

The department also said the number of unemployed workers who remained on the benefit rolls after filing an initial claim jumped by 87,000 to 3.82 million in the June 28 week, the highest level since February 1983.

...more...

[chadm]

66. That's exactly why nader needs to run

it is so bad that the SYSTEM needs to be reformed...not just the bodies involved.

[TLM]

104. But as he peoved in 2000 Nader runing won't reform anything.

All it will do is throw another 4 years to Bush.

[mhr]

9. If Kucinich

is not the Democratic nominee, I'll vote for Nader again.

[The Magistrate]

34. Then You Might As Well Bite The Bullet And Vote Republican

[Darranar]

49. I don't care who is the Democratic nominee...

I will support him over Bush! Almost anyone is better than Bush! Edwards, Lieberman, Dean, Kucinich, Gephardt, Kerry... even McCain!

[chadm]

55. I agree...that is the only possible way I'll vote Democrat

The others are all part of the problem.

[TLM]

105. And I'm sure Mr. Bush thanks you for your help.

He'll be very happy that you've bought the BS and have been turned off of voting for the person who might actualy beat Bush.

[glarius]

10. I'm asking as an uninformed Canadian...has he ever run for Senator or

Some other public office?....Wouldn't that be a good place to start if he really wants to make a difference?....Just asking????
Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me he's more interested in the job for himself rather than getting rid of the blight of Bush and company!

[Julien Sorel]

15. The only difference this perverse windbag wants to make

is to his own inflated ego. He's pathological. He craves the attention, even the negative attention he got after 2000. He needs to run to a psychiatrist's chair, not for any elected position.
“If I was able to get on all the state ballots … and if I was able to get in all of the debates, there’d be a good chance for a three-way race. And if the debates were not just sterile parallel interviews, if they were really varied debates worthy of the name, there’s a chance of a three-way race.”

But he can't do any of those things. This is completely ducking the question, because the answer is, he can't win the election; all he can do is lose it for more rational people than he, or the Republican nominee, will ever be. But he can make sure that he gets lots and lots of attention. Fortunately for everyone except his own ego, I suspect the damage Nadir can do this time around will be very limited.

[PATRICK]

38. seriously

He should battle Buchanan for the Independence Party. A great arena for political chaos and failed dreams. The Greens could become a very viable third party if a Democratic government advances reforms. Unless the pols enjoy the anonymity of a deadlocked truncated government and keep joining together to keep competitors out.

But the only real issue is the debates open to more fringe candidates which is a non starter next year unless it is used to deceitfully screw up having ANY debates.

Everyone's entitled but I think Nader doesn't have even a fraction of the support he had last time. This is less than symbolic unless he is fighting to get LaRouche and Buchanan on the debates. Now that he has the campaign bug it is unfortunate that he considers this his only way to influence reforms. Man, there HAS to be something better for him to do, even if motivated by anger.

[chadm]

56. who's Wesley Clark?

How many people has he killed? How many people has Ralph Nader saved?

[The Magistrate]

63. Gen. Clark, Dear

Commanded the forces that prevented Butcher Slobo notching another grand massacre in Kossovo. He certainly spared scores of thousand Kossovo Albanians torturous deaths by doing so. Why is it no surprise you would have prefered mass graves in the place to the use of violence by a Democratic President to prevent the murderous rampage of nationalist thug?

[madmax]

85. Go away

Run Clark Run!!!


:kick:

[MUAD_DIB]

31. You have hit the nail on the head!

I wish more greens were asking that same question instead of commenting on how great Nader's answers are.

He has never held public office.

But that's okay. The Nader supporters will just strap on their blinders, roll their eyes and mumble something about this still being a democracy and voting their conscience.

[The Magistrate]

35. Other Than His Efforts On Behalf Of The Republican Party In '00

The wretch has no electoral experience: he has never held office, or run in any other contest.

[Pathwalker]

107. He has never held ANY public office.

He'd rather start at the top and work his way down.

[onecitizen]

11. Well this is just GREAT news!!!!

jjeeeeshhhhh. I'm mad at the Dem's too (some of them) but can't he see how bush is destroying this nation? I used to like Nader. Thought he served a purpose by bringing up topics that most Politicians don't like to talk about publicly. But we can't play around now. We've already lost so much. 4 more years of this corrupt administration will destroy America for sure.

Please Ralph, find some other way to help.

[indypaul]

12. To paraphrase,

"well Ralph, there you go again." And to repeat once more your
message may be different but you are simply practicing the
politics of J Strohm Thurmond and George Wallace. It did not
work for either of them and it won't work for you. If you find
more sympathy within the Democratic Party for your issues then
join them if you find it in the Republican Party (which I doubt very
much) then join them. No one ever gets 100% of their way 100% of
the time. Simply a fact of life, recognize it and get with the
program. To continue to be a spoiler only hurts you and your causes.

[glarius]

14. You hit the nail right on the head!

:)

[PretzelzRule]

61. THANK YOU!

Well said!!

:hi:

[Nottingham]

13. Well the More the Merrier!

:bounce:

[onehandle]

16. Four More Years! Four More Years!

sigh............Yurp, Here I come.

[Kahuna]

17. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

:boring:

[jpgray]

19. Could've used you Ralph... during the last FOUR YEARS!!!

Kucinich is the real deal for progressive issues--you're a hack and an egotistical blowhard. If you can't step out of your batcave until primary season every four years, you shouldn't step out of it at all.

[barbaraann]

29. Ditto.

p.s. I refuse to let the rightwingers coopt my language.

[Merlin]

20. Pardon the crass analogy. Why do dogs lick their own testicles?

Because they can.

[bushisanidiot]

22. I see this as blackmail to try to force the dems to go left

If the dems don't put up a nominee he'll like then he's going to come and try to ruin the party for everyone.. and bush wins again.

[loyalsister]

33. Don't kid yourself

This narcissitic freak would run against Kucinich. I don't have actual quotes anymore, but someone else may. It's NOT about policy. It's about destroying the Democratic party. He wants a revolution. I suspect he's disappointed that there hasn't been widespread violence and half of the country hasn't been burned down. He doesn't want another "anesthetizer" to get elected. Don't worry, Nader WOULD find a way to paint DK as one.

[DinahMoeHum]

23. "Repentant Nader Voters" - looks like some Nader voters frrom 2000

have seen the light.

Their website:
http://www.repentantnadervoter.com/

They're just starting up.


:kick:

[tinanator]

44. likely story

Far be it from me to disagree with McAuliffe's scapegoating strategy clients who gladly swallow a non-sequitor hook line and sinker, but exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
exactly WHICH party is responsible for this Iraqi nastiness?
I thought so.
He hasnt said whether or not he will run, nor do I see the word "January" in a quote, the more likely motive here is excitable/divisive/damaging noise that benefits only those in power. He has said he might, or more likely, DOES support Kucinich (the ONE) as the nominee, and for very good reasons that honest analysis makes clear. This website is probably as sincere and legitimate as MWO.
whats the proper emoticon for eyes rolling clear back in my head?

[chadm]

62. right.

buying right into the Republican propoganda. pathetic.

[The Magistrate]

67. Since You Have Announced You Intend To Work For Republican Victory In '04

You should be happy people buy into Republican propaganda.

[chadm]

74. spinning doesn't work, dear

on thinking people.

[The Magistrate]

78. You Just Keep Telling Yourself That You Think, Dear

While you work to return the criminals of the '00 Coup to office in '04.

[Tanketra]

86. You know ...

... if the people around here and Democrats in general spent as much time sucking up to those ostensible Dems who "betray" the party by voting for conservative whackjobs on the GOP ticket as they did trashing those ostensible Dems who "betray" the party by voting for marginal third-party candidates out of concern that the Democratic party doesn't care for their issues ...


... well, it'd be a weekday like today.

[TLM]

106. No spin, simply facts. Support for Ralph...

is helping to knee cap the party that can beat bush.

[FlaGranny]

24. #&%@#!*%@#!!!

That's all I have to say.

[roguevalley]

26. from the repentant nader voter's website

SNIPPAGE!

The Bush nightmare might have been avoided if over 2.5 million of us had not voted for you in the last election. While we do not blame you or ourselves for the Gore loss, it is irrefutable that Bush might not be in office if you had not been a candidate.

SNIPPAGE!

We ask that you join us in repenting and make the same pledge. By doing so, you would join a growing number of citizens who voted for you but now believe that your campaign in 2000 was a mistake.

SNIPPAGE!

But faced with the surreal reality that we confront in Washington today, we beseech you not to run next year and to call on all those who voted for you to join together in support of a candidate that has a real chance to defeat Bush.

It's time to repent...because Bush is so bad.

Yours,

RepentantNaderVoter.com

**********************************************

Ah. At last. I am proud of them. This sort of courage isn't easily
found.

RV

[jiacinto]

28. I knew it

Nader was going to run regardless.

[MsChiff]

30. What part of "Go Away!"...

... does this man not understand?

[ronnykmarshall]

32. He only listens to his ego

[annagull]

36. I'd be shocked if he got 1% of the vote in any state

This is the most important election of our lifetime, too much is at stake. Alot of Nader voters realize that the important thing is to get the resident out of the White House, nothing else matters as much. Nader is dreaming.

[The Magistrate]

37. Yet That Might Be Enough, Ma'am

To return the criminals of the '00 Coup to office.

A vote for anyone but the nominee of the Democratic Party is a vote for the reactionary banditti who have usurped rule of our country.

[jolet]

39. I will vote for Nader

...because you Democrats have proven once again how incapable you are of finding a real progressive for your candidate. You are a bunch of crybaby simpletons who do not really care about changing the status quo, but instead about regaining power by acting like Republicans (yes, you too Dean). I hope the Dems. never win the presidency. At least if G.W. is elected again we will be foreced into a revolt b/c he will ruin our lives to the extent that we cannot take it anymore.

A VOTE for a democrat is a vote against Nader and for Bush and corporate america. RUN RALPH RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Magistrate]

40. Hope You Enjoy Your Reactionary Paradise, Dear

You are working for it as sure as you were born.

[chadm]

64. hope you enjoy or authoritative delusions, dear

you are the voice of the establishment.

[The Magistrate]

68. Have A Pleasant Time Campaigning To Keep Reactionaries In Office, Dear

Your morale purity and a three dollar bill may get you a cup of coffee someplace.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[LiberalLibra]

41. jolet: With Nader you will get Bush so....

....why not just vote for Bush and get it over with?? At least some previous Nader voters are seeing the light so maybe Nader will get just 1% of the vote this time. That would serve the liberal wannabe right. BTW, where do you think Nader gets his money except for those corporations he claims to hate so much??

[rocketdem]

46. jolet decides to vote for Bush

It's that simple.

Either vote for the Democratic candidate, or you effectively vote for Bush. Period. There is no rational or logical alternative.

[tinanator]

50. he's so evil

for the good of the country they removed him from the premises of the "debate", not to mention excluding him from participating despite public opinion that he be allowed in. now why didnt you democracy minded folks just have him shot? trying to maintain an image or something?

[The Magistrate]

51. So You Like Republican Rule, Eh?

[tinanator]

100. Definitely not

especially when they sneak in calling themselves Democrats. Is that all you ask, a different label for the same anti-labor platforms?
Call me picky that way.

[TLM]

112. Newsflash... Dean won the Wellstone award

... for his support of unions. Dean wants to reform the WTO and NAFTA. Dean has plans for closing corportate tax loopholes.


So to claim Dems have the same anti-labor platform as republicans is nothing more than an ignorant steaming green pile.


Why do greens insist on shooting themselves in the foot if they can't get from point A to point Z in one election? You people would reject a candidate who supports 70% or 80% of your agenda, simply because they did not support 100% of your agenda... and in doing so you make you get a guy who is 99% against your agenda.

You tell me just one green issue that has made progress as a result of voting for Ralphie in 2000... any green issue that has made progress as a result of voting for Ralph. All of those issues have lost ground... all of them have suffered thanks to voting for Ralph.

So what did it accomplish?

[tinanator]

117. Right Republicans signed NAFTA into law

who said anything about Dean? Is there a pharmaceuticals lobby in this thread?

[tinanator]

118. how about electoral fraud awareness?

As if you werent completely oblivious to anything positive about Nader. Say hi to McAuliffe for me.

[rocketdem]

52. I didn't use the word evil

I would, however, use the words "gutless, spineless, egomaniacal jerk." If he has a complaint with the Dems, then he should step up to the plate and make his case. He cannot. Or he will not lest he be forced to live by the laws of democracy, something that he could never and would never do.

But, go ahead and vote for him. It's your right. But having done so, you forfeit any moral or ethical ground from which to complain about a second W administration.

[chadm]

65. You dems are not entitled to any votes

You have to earn them. If Ralph earns mine, that's my decision.

[The Magistrate]

69. A Decision To Support Republican Rule Of Our Country

That will be the only possible result of your actions.

[chadm]

75. The purpetuation of the...

CFR status-quo and the vision of the freemasons of world domination is the only possible outcome of your position.

[The Magistrate]

80. Freemasons Are A Dangerous Enemy To The Deluded, Dear

They crawl into your mind, and convince you that the best thing for a leftist to do is work to put reactionary Republicans into office. That will really advance the progressive agenda.

[rocketdem]

90. "You Dems"?

Huh, I could have sworn that I logged into DEMOCRATICUnderground here. Imagine my surprise to find out that there are people here who are willing to actively support the reelection* of Bush.


*re-selection?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tinanator]

101. wow. Thanks for straightening me out.

It is a tragedy how Bush rolled back NAFTA and GATT and the WTO and all the other progressive "Democratic" achievements of the last 25 years. I think it takes a serious spine to stand up to the Rovian attacks of the oh so different McAuliffe machinery. Would you believe I dont think you are in charge of my right to complain? If only I could forfeit your right to reach twilight zone conclusions. Back to star wars with ya.

[rocketdem]

120. reading problem

Once again you display a tendency to read words that aren't there. I did not say anything about your right to complain. I did mention your moral or ethical grounding from which you will launch such complaints.

Either you support the overthrow of the current administration or you support its continuation. The former means voting for the Democratic nominee. The latter means voting for anyone else. Period.

Not voting for the Democratic nominee based upon concept of allowing the "perfect" to be the enemy of the good, then you will forever be doomed to failure in the world of politics.

[TLM]

110. So should any jackass who can scrape up 2.5% get to debate?

We'd have debates with 15 people... a mess.


Debates are for people who might actualy get to be president to show their views to the public... not for someone who wants to be president to advertise the fact they are running.

Saying Ralph should have been in the debates, is like saying Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh should be able to be in the debates.

[tinanator]

119. wow with wisdom like that

why dont you run. GW cant wait to debate his equals in eloquence. He has his hopes pinned on Dean.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chadm]

59. I feel exactly the same way

Any CFR-backed candidate is the same as Bush.

[QC]

82. "Nach Hitler, Uns!"

"After Hitler, Us!" That was the slogan of the early 1930's German communists, who believed that other leftists, like the socialists, were not sufficiently pure. (Sound familiar?)

They genuinely believed that if Hitler took power, then the German people would be so shocked and horrified by the results that they would run screaming into the arms of the communists.

Instead, of course, the communists were among the first to be sent to their deaths.

[Trek234]

98. Nice selective history

You forgot to mention that after Hitler the communists DID take power.

[QC]

113. And we all know what a joy East Germany was.

The STASI. A government that thought the Soviets were dangerously soft. Citizen spying. 239 people killed trying to cross the Berlin Wall.

Yes, the Germans in the east were so much better off after the communists took power.

Like I said, hoping that things get worse so that they can get better is a really lousy strategy.

[TLM]

109. So to avoid a dem that is kinda like a republican...

you'll vote Nader and make sure you get a full on republican.

Yeah real smart.

That is like trying to make sure you don't get a sunburn, by dumping gasoline all over yourself and lighting a match.


The arrogance and stupidity of these people who think that their 1% should get to lay down policy for everybody is amazing to me. Be they green nuts or anti-choice fascists or racist groups… these small-minded out-there nut jobs want to force everybody to do things their way or else.

The mentality that would say that Dean, who is anti-gulf war II, pro-corporate reform, pro-NAFTA and WTO reform, pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-environment, pro-union, and pro-universal health care is not progressive enough so they’ll toss it to Bush because there’s no difference between the dems and the republicans, is simply amazing to me.

Trying to understand Ralpie voters is like trying to understand KKK members… their thought process is just so far out of whack that I can’t even connect with them.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

43. Nader

Is nothing more than an opportunist!!!


Down with Repugs and Greens in 04' may have to be the Democratic party's policy: :dem:

[Starpass]

45. Excuse me--did you hear his threat??

Several weeks ago there was an article posted her at DU. I laughed. It was a news article saying that Nadar was threatening the Greens that if they did not elect him as their presidential nominee he was going to run as a republican against Bush. Apparently there must be some in-fighting within the Greens who don't want him. So, go for it, Nadar, run as a repuke. I bet you'll just set the country on it's ear. God save us from these vanity-candidates. And may God somewhere and somehow grant them a LIFE!!!!

[chadm]

60. Who do you think you are?

May God do this and may God do that. You sound like Bush.

[The Magistrate]

70. It Is Clear Who You Are

A person who hopes to return the criminals of the '00 Coup to office, to demonstrate the purity of your leftist convictions. There is a reason Lenin titled a work "Left-Wing Communism: An Infantile Disorder".

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

81. The Reference, Dear, Was To You

The agitation for extreme left views without any concern for the possibility of success among the people has long been an enemy to progress by the left, as Lenin pointed out in the pamphlet.

[mitchum]

84. you've finally said something true

"He's not a communist" Hell, he's not even very left. Since I'm a pragmatist (and not a fool) I'll stick with the "left lite" of the Dems, over Ralph's "left lite" Children's Crusade

[Cheswick2.0]

94. So anyone who believes in God is like Bush?

that's a nice piece of nonsense

[ronnykmarshall]

116. Oh please!

You sound like you also buy into the bullshit that only republicans can speak of god.

[nocreativename]

47. Pubie Payrole

I think Nader is on the Pubie Pay Role. Rove knew what Pero (sp) did to Popa Bush.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

92. I think playrole is perfect

he's being paid by the right to play a role.


When you have to resort to making fun of of someone's typo or spelling mistake, you have lost the argument.

PS....my spelling sucks, but that doesn't mean I don't know what a forked tongue nutcase St Rakph is.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chadm]

57. If Kucinich doesn't get the nod...

and he runs with Ralph as the VP candidate (or vice versa)...than what do you guys think?

[The Magistrate]

71. Any Excuse Will Do For You

To put the criminals of the '00 Coup back in office, eh?

[chadm]

77. But there isn't an excuse for your...

perpetuation of the status quo.

[The Magistrate]

83. Your Campaign To Return The Criminals Of The '00 Coup To Office, Dear

Does more to perpetuate the status quo than any poor efforts of mine to turn them from the place they have usurped could possibly achieve.

[union_maid]

89. Status quo will be the least of it..

A Nader candidacy won't further the cause of the status quo, that's for sure. With the very real possibility of the actual election of GW looming, rather than whatever happened in 2000, it'll advance the movement of this country deeper into rightwing radicalism. A strong leftist third party just leaves us with total Republican rule for many years to come. There are only two conclusions to derive from another Nader assault. Either he doesn't mind living under the PNAC junta and doesn't care one bit if the rest of us have to, or he's too deluded to understand what he's doing.

He's already helped the Republicans to do irreparable harm. What they'll do with a mandate of a real plurality is not something that bears thinking about. But you know his entry into the race will make a lot of Republicans and a lot of CEOs very happy. The Repubs have been very loose with the term "useful idiots". I'd say it applies here, bigtime.

[Cheswick2.0]

95. and Nader would be different how?

How exactly would Mr stock portfolio change the status quo?

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[union_maid]

91. Think about where the lie really is

I just made a post that's guilty of exactly what you're objecting to here. I didn't see your post when I did, so I need to respond. The lie is on Nader's side. His candidacy doesn't give us choice, it gives us Republicans. That's all it can possibly do. If you want a very different platform from the Repubs you don't have to look farther than Kucinich, but he's too far left for the majority of the people at this moment in time. However, his campaign will put those ideas back into play in the Democratic party, no doubt about it. Dean's campaign is really stirring things up and he possibly has a shot. Kerry is a real liberal and is one of the mainstream candidates. Yes, the Dems need to move left and they need to temper, lose or change the influence of the DLC, but you can't do it by being way off the map according to the voters of this country and you certainly can't do it by increasing Bush's mathmatical chances of victory. Once in power, they get plenty of chances to entrench that power and to do things that'll still be in effect long after they're gone. As we have seen, much to the detriment of many Americans and others.

[Iverson]

96. problems with your rebuttal

Even if everything you wrote is true (which I do not propose here), that still does not justify a deliberately illegitimate response.

Also, the world is a complex place with room for many opinions. It is not reducible, as Bush thinks, to one truth and all the rest lies. Therefore, this construction, "The lie is on Nader's side." is not only a dualistic error, but also it is a vague slam that allows us to turn a blind eye to whatever illegitimate response a critic may make.

[hayu_lol]

99. Iverson...

How do you explain, after criticizing dems for standing with bush, Ralph's close friendship with Grover Norquist...and his attendance at the Repugnant Wednesday planning meetings. Further, how do you explain Ralph's taking Repugnant money to challenge Dem Candidates?

Ralph is not a Green, Ralph is a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist.

[AntiCoup2K4]

114. I think we would have the Fourth Reich for another 4 years.

Because as stupid as this may sound, it's unfortunately true. There will never be a President Kucinich just like there was not a President Tsongas or a President Dukakis. It's not their platform that doesn't sell, it's their names.

And yes, that's lame as Hell, but it's reality in media driven campaigns, and that was even before the media became a right wing corporate entity.

[farmboxer]

87. I Like Gen. Clark

if we can't have President Gore. I really wonder if Nader is a Republican?

[leesa]

108. Wow, Nader just doesn't get it , does he?

Bush must be defeated and it can't possibly be done by a third party. Several of the Dem candidates fully understand the problem with corruption...Dean, Kucinich, Sharpton and possibly others. Why does he think he's the only one who recognises it?

[JohnKleeb]

111. Can't we just nominate Kucinich

IMO he could get Greens, democrats, and working class republicans. I cant vote in 2004 but I will tell you this I would vote a democrat for president if Kucinich doesnt get the nomination. We gotta nominate him guys let he talk to the country and the world they will love him. Remember there was a time where an obscure Arkansas governor was running for president, another when a man only assistant secretary of the navy was president with in 4 years, and also McGovern and Dukakis werent screwed because they were liberal. Dennis can talk good and he will bring us to the age of liberal enlightenment peace is the ultimate goal.