AP: Power Outage May Have Started in Ohio

[Atlant]

http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/content/news/ap_story.html/National/AP.V5912.AP-Blackout-What-H.html

Power Outage May Have Started in Ohio

By H. JOSEF HEBERT
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP)--The largest power blackout in American
history prompted new calls Friday for overhauling the nation's
electricity system as investigators said they believe the power
disruptions began in northern Ohio.

``That's where the information is starting to point,'' Ellen Vancko,
a spokeswoman for the North American ElectricReliability Council, said
in an interview. ``It looks like that's where the collapse started.''

Vancko, whose industry-sponsored group monitors the transmission
system, said it would take time to pinpoint the cause further.

<more>

[joeybee12]

1. Pataki said it started in Canada

Like all members of the Nazi Party, he doens't know what the f**k he's talking about!

[snake1306]

4. I love how several European media

outlets are describing the situation as "chaos" in areas without power.

I haven't heard of any such chaos...no widespread looting, no wild gangs running the streets, etc.

[Cronus Protagonist]

8. NBC said that this morning

So it's not limited to foreign outlets. Personally, I think they just don't know the meaning of the word.


Fair & Balanced Buttons — The Cronus Connection

[snake1306]

9. Well, if there was actual chaos

it'd be great for their ratings.

They know all the rest of us wanted to sit in front of the TV with a bag of popcorn, watching the riots and looting live.

[AWD]

2. Yeah! It's Ohio's fault!

I personally blame Ralph Regula. Remove him from office and replace him with a fresh, new 34-year-old Democrat who happens to be running against him next November!

Well, that's what I'd do at least.

[obietiger]

5. good idea

and I, for one, will vote for that 34 year old democrat. :)

[AWD]

13. And hey...

...you actually CAN vote for that 34-year-old Democrat!!!

[obietiger]

43. Excellent

Count on four votes from this family

[liberalnurse]

14. Now we're talking!!!!

Lets connect the dots......take pictures.....and I don't know what else at the moment...good suggestion!

[MGKrebs]

27. LOL! Cool! n/t

[goobergunch]

35. How's the electricity in Canton?

I've heard that it's still shaky in Ohio.

[AWD]

39. Never lost it

Akron went down for a while, Cleveland still has 20% loss.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. "We don't know how it started...."

"...but we KNOW it wasn't terrorism."

:wtf:

[Atlant]

6. If you want a real "root cause", consider this statement:

If you want a real "root cause", consider this statement:

Brownell said it was still unclear what happened.

The early confusion about the cause of the grid collapse reflects the bedeviling complexity woven into the North
American electricity network. Strain on the system has increased with the boom in cross-border power energy
trading, and the emergence of competitive energy markets where power is being traded across long distances.

The grids may have just become too big for our technology to
accommodate them. Sure, maybe you CAN trade power from San
Diego to Portland, ME, but maybe it's not such a smart thing in the
long run unless you're an Enron or Xenergy investor (or you figure
out how to beat Ohm's law with superconducting dc cables or some
such).

Maybe if you want reliable power, the old regulated monopoly
utility (with appropriate ties to its neighbors for power reliability
reasons) wasn't such a bad idea after all?

You could certainly make the same argument about our phone service and
MOST CERTAINLY about cell phone service. No other civilized
country in the world has the f**ked-up mess that our cell phone
industry has delivered to us, with (seemingly) ninety-seven mutually-
incompatible standards and every carrier providing service in only
part of its licensed coverage area. In every other civilized country
in the world, your one cell phone using GSM, ONE CELL PHONE
STANDARD, works everywhere else in the world. But not here.

Thanks, deregulators. I don't suppose you'll end up getting (or
taking) much blame for this latest debacle, though.

Atlant

[Barrett808]

33. Electricity Coalition: we told you so

http://electricitycoalition.org/articles/letter_20030715_JW_TS.html

Date: Jul. 15, 2003 Toronto Star
Title: Tories must act on blackout risk, by JOHN WILSON


Your mother is trapped in an elevator, your kid is stuck in the dark
on the subway and you are stranded in your car unable to buy gas in a
colossal traffic jam or, worse, a family member's breathing
ventilator or kidney dialysis machine shuts down.

These are just a few of the situations that Ontarians face every time
a heat wave threatens to black out our electricity. Unless the
government acts immediately, lives will be put at risk and our
economy will be devastated.

Blackout risk is high in Ontario.

We no longer produce enough electricity to meet our needs during heat
waves.

This is because the Tories eliminated conservation programs launched
a decade ago by the former NDP government. And, for the last eight
years, the government has stopped building electricity supply.

Our electricity system operator has said that had demand been higher
last summer, we would have experienced blackouts.

This summer the market operator's figures show inadequate reserves
even with the small portable generators the Tories are leasing. The
portables demonstrate that the Tory electricity privatization and
deregulation program has failed. They are also a sign that the
government is focused on winning the next election rather than
addressing our blackout risks.

Blackouts would cause problems for all of us, especially for those
who depend on hospitals, nursing homes, dental clinics, drinking
water and sewage treatment facilities, fire fighting, air
conditioning for the elderly and infirm, policing, security systems,
emergency vehicles and medical life-support systems.

Blackouts can also cause significant economic damage.

Office buildings, hotels, restaurants, transportation, traffic
control, financial institutions and most of the rest of our
infrastructure need electricity.

Blackouts would create chaos and, in the wake of SARS, would
devastate Ontario's health-care system and economy.

Ontario's sagging tourist business cannot afford another body blow.

Because of the risk blackouts pose, the Ontario government should act
immediately to both try to prevent them, and to help people prepare
to deal with them should they occur.

Working to prevent blackouts will reduce their likelihood and
preparing for blackouts greatly reduces their danger to public health
and safety and the economy.

During California's electricity crisis, the governor's office worked
with state and local agencies to mandate reduced electricity demand
when load reached critical levels. The Ontario government should
mandate that unnecessary load be cut when blackouts are looming. We
shouldn't be air-conditioning vehicle-licensing offices and running
swimming-pool pumps when the lights are about to go out.

The California government told people how to prepare for and operate
during blackouts by providing information about refrigerated
medicine, life-support systems, food processing, traffic control,
fire and security systems, emergency generators and avoiding heat
stroke.

The information protected lives and helped restore power faster after
blackouts occurred. People's lives shouldn't be placed at risk
because of incorrectly hooked-up and operated backup generators.

By not acting, the Tories are taking unnecessary risks with our lives
and livelihoods. No informed voter will return to power a government
that places a higher priority on winning the next election than it
does on dealing with blackout risk.

If the Tories don't want a voter blackout in the next Ontario
election, they will admit that there is a problem and act immediately
to deal with it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

John Wilson is an energy consultant and a former board member of
Hydro One.




For more information please contact:
[e-mail]

[bluestateguy]

7. Republicans run the show in Ohio

It just shows why Ohio needs to elect new leadership.

[AWD]

16. YEAH!

[sandnsea]

29. Slap that donkey

Kick 'em out of the White House and the (insert #) Ohio Congressional District!!

:kick:

[goobergunch]

36. 16th (n/t)

[goobergunch]

37. dupe (n/t)

[snake1306]

10. Here is the cause

<IMG src=""> :-)

[leftofthedial]

11. gee I thought it started

in clinton's trousers

[cmd]

12. Everyone in Ohio knows it started in

MICHIGAN!

No kidding, I just heard it on the radio. It was a Clear Channel station, as fair and balanced as they come.

[QuietStorm]

18. Now it is Michigan Hah! I'll tell you what. When it is CONCLUSIVE

Let me know. I wait with baited breath.

[QuietStorm]

15. LOL now it's Ohio that is funny.

first it was a burning con ed building in Astoria that was recanted as a procedure for keeping generators cool. They then head up to Niagara Falls and come back with these main circuits that were tripped off because of lightenting. They ruled out or so I heard computer software glitchs. Now Ohio. Tell me are any of the engineers actually talking on this story. And how is it with soaring utility bills that upkeep on something as important as electricity is so antiquated?

America the superpower has many questions to answer. Seems way too much money is spent on arms, black ops, and war propaganda. That big stick only lasts until they get to the final show down then it will actually intelligence that will save us or kick ass boxing. Because this is an unprecedented black out and still they have no conclusive explanation for it. While the network news outlets carry on with sports, weather, local crime, and celebrity updates.

Perhaps I should take all my money out of the bank today.

[Ediacara]

19. what WAS the burning building then?

I remember seeing a clip of a building on CNN said to be in New York (didn't specify if it was NYC or NYS) that very clearly had flames - not just smoke - coming out of the smoke stacks, and was said to be a power plant.

Does anyone know what that was?

[QuietStorm]

24. you ACTUALLY saw flames?

well then they are clearly lying. Here is the official back peddling from the original stories that it was a fire. Why would they downplay a fire at this Con Ed building if it was indeed a fire?

http://www.quicken.com/investments/news_center/story/?story=NewsStory/dowJones/20030814/ON200308141758001240.var&column=P0DFP

snip

A duty agent in the Federal Bureau of Investigation's New York office said he understands the cause of the outage in New York is related to a fire at Con Edison's plant on 14th Street. The fire department said it wasn't clear if any fire was related to the outage,

The FBI is coordinating with local agencies, but right now has no reason to believe the incident is terrorist related, the duty agent said.

snip

On CNN, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the Con Ed system shut down as it should have. He said the black smoke seen on 14th Street wasn't a fire but the natural consequence of the shutdown.

----------

It WAS originally pointed out as A FIRE and perhaps the cause of the outage. We seque up north to Niagara the next thing I know, I hear reports that it was a generator cooling procedure and now the Mayor of New York suggests there were no flames (as he omits flames in his statement) and says just shutting the plant down would cause black plumes of smoke. Are you in NY. What do you think?

[htuttle]

25. I saw the same thing

On several of the TV networks, they kept cutting to this shot of flames coming from the top of a building (multi-story, but not a high-rise). I didn't hear them refer to it specifically as the power plant, but something was indeed on fire.

I might have a short video clip of it somewhere, but I'm pretty sure I don't have them describing what it is. They kept using it as part of their 'fade to commercial' segue.

[QuietStorm]

31. so it seems they are covering something up

does it seem that way to you?

[htuttle]

32. There's a lot that doesn't make sense about this blackout

I heard several industry engineers interviewed say that they were baffled as to how the instability jumped from one region to the next. Certainly, there is more to this story than it being 'just one of those things', as many seem to be shoveling on us. Something failed that shouldn't have. With Canada affected and involved, I'm a little more certain that an honest answer will be found, rather than simply a whitewash for Bush's negligence regarding cutting the power grid

I'm not sure about the ConEd 'non-fire'. I did hear at one point during the coverage that an apartment building was on fire, and they showed a different shot of it (than the one I mentioned above). Not sure whether that other shot I saw was of the same apartment fire from a different angle, or the Con-Ed 'non-fire'.

When I get home this evening, I'll check to see if I managed to capture that shot digitally, and show it to someone from NYC to find out if they recognize it as the roof of the ConEd plant. It did not look like flames coming out of a smokestack -- it was much more like a structural fire.

[QuietStorm]

34. for some reason my gut

tells me it is homegrown terrorism. this is not just one of those things. I mean would bush go to these lengths got get his energy bill passed. I am so glad I happened to be on line and here when this broke because I got to witness all the contradictions as they were reported. very very suspicious the early call on this not being terror linked and also suspicious they took our attention away from that con ed plant.

I am not in touch with anyone in the know or that would question these suspicions in this way from NYC. something is off

Here is the issue for me: whatever the cause if they can narrow in on it. This is not just some little thing. this further deteriorates our economy. Could also place state at the mercy of federal. It is a big blow to infrastructure. This is not minor at all. I have not been following has power been resorted for the most part? And if the answer is yes? And it was a trip off of main circuits well doesn't that tell you something right there? I do not know though if power has been restored and if not how much of the power has been restored.

It could have been as simple as insiders in synchronicity just throwing switches. I got bogged down with why the disparity in reports on the con ed plant in NYC. So I am now behind on the outage as a whole. As far as I know cause has yet not been pinpointed. or has it?

[jayfish]

40. It Was New Jersey.

My whole office was in my office watching a live feed from MSNBC's affiliate in New Jersey. They did a slow pan of the city and there were several areas that were in smoke. Then they focused on one building that clearly had flames coming from it. They claimed that an oil refinery or some power producing plant. I even commented to my co-workers that it looked like Bin Forgotten was hitting our power infrastructure. Then they cut away to Brian Williams. I didn't see anything when I got home so I chalked it up to the fog of crisis.

Jay

[QuietStorm]

42. what is that about WHY did they say right after NO smoke NO fire?

right there is the indication something is FOUL.

[Atlant]

26. Read my reply 6. The "antiquated" system worked.

> And how is it with soaring utility bills that upkeep on something as
> important as electricity is so antiquated?

Read my reply 6. The "antiquated" system worked. It's the new,
totally-fugged-up deregulated profit-ripping-off system that
no longer works. The complexity of the system has grown expo-
nentially as it has become "deregulated" and huge blocks of
power are being "wheeled" across the system.

Atlant

[caribmon]

17. Well Drudge has been whacking away

at the Canadians all day...

[wabeewoman]

21. Typical repug behavior...

blame someone else! Blame anyone else. Ahhh the party of personal responsibility.

[drscm]

23. You mean, "The party of personal blame..." eom

Republicans New Mascot: Alfred E. Newman

Republicans New Motto: Who, Me?

[gratuitous]

20. Is this a sign that it's a true screw-up?

Everybody's running from responsibility for this thing. The idea that it "just happened" isn't going to have too much traction, so folks are looking for a real cause. If it wasn't a lightning strike in Niagara, or a toaster in Toledo, or a microwave in Michigan, what was it? And what sort of back-ups and fail-safes should be in place so that a power problem in one area doesn't affect millions across the most densely populated swath of the continent?

The return of regulation! We have the public's attention, let's thump the tub for a good idea that should never have been abandoned.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. Then Let's Recall Governor Taft!!!

.

[cmd]

30. Now you are talking

However, no one would notice if Taft was gone.

[GainesT1958]

28. Well, New Yorkers usually blame Ohio and Pa. for pollution...

It figures someone in N.Y. would try and blame Ohio for this, too!:eyes:

I've got a way to settle the Jean Chretien-George Pataki dispute. Put both of them in barrels and drop each of them into the Niagra river, upstream. Whichever guy can manage to stay afloat after going over Niagra falls, he wins the argument!:D

B-)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

38. Jenna Bush In New York?

According to this Denver Post article, Jenna Bush is in Manhattan this summer, doing an internship with a Public Relations firm. Yet, I've heard nothing about the President's daughter in the media. If Jenna Bush was conveniently absent from her job on the day this happened, I'm going to look at this situation with an unfortunate paranoiac mindset. Of course this
administration's history of lies and secrecy haven't helped cure me of this tendency.

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E78%257E1516834,00.html

[dArKeR]

41. How can Bush know it's not terrorism? Did any reporter ask how he knows

this? If this one fallen line was cut by human than it was terrorism.

The media are all whores for not pursuing questioning on this line!

[robbedvoter]

44. Cuz Tony Alexander, his buddy pioneer who owns the Ohio plant

told them of the lawsuit he lost the week before and how they would pay the bastids back.

[jfkennedy]

45. FirstEnergy Inc. is accustomed to scrutiny and likely source of blackout

UPDATED: 10:57 a.m. EDT August 17, 2003

On Saturday, a top investigator said the failure of three transmission lines in northern Ohio likely started Thursday's blackout that swept into eight states and Ontario.

Earlier this month, a U.S. District Court judge in Ohio ruled that FirstEnergy should have determined that changes at one of its coal-fired plants would increase overall pollution emissions. A second trial will determine penalties.

U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich, from Cleveland and a long time FirstEnergy critic, said he was closely monitoring the situation.


http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2410863/detail.html