Challenge to Kerry's Vietnam record sets off storm

[Nambe]

The Dallas Herald

If the first casualty in war is the truth, as the old saying goes, the truth about John Kerry's military service is under fire from television and the bookstore shelves. ...

The Kerry campaign has called the group a Republican front operation. Houston home builder Bob Perry, a major financial supporter of President Bush and the Republican Party, has provided $100,000 to the group, about two- thirds of the organization's donations, according to recent federal records.

The White House and the Bush campaign say they had nothing to do with the ad but have declined to condemn it specifically. ..

Since the ad aired, the group has drawn intense scrutiny. One member in the ad, retired Capt. George Elliott, reportedly recanted his accusations that Mr. Kerry did not deserve his Silver Star. But after The Boston Globe published that, the Swift Boat Veterans released an affidavit in which Mr. Elliott swore he stood by his accusation. But in 1996, Mr. Elliott was quoted in news reports praising Mr. Kerry's actions as courageous.

"The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage," Mr. Elliott said then.

A woman who answered the phone at Mr. Elliott's home Monday said he declined to comment further. ...

Ride Don’t Drive * * It’s Global Cool

[wtmusic]

1. Elliot's story is weaving like a swiftboat taking fire on the Mekong n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. Ha ha. Not Kerry's boat! He's aiming straight and true

for the shore and when he gets there he's gonna chase down the GOP scum!

[LauraK]

2. Why aren't we screaming about dimson's war record?

I don't get it, unles there's a bombshell coming. There had better be.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

6. There is an unclaimed prize waiting!

[Tuttle]

29. THANKS!

I've been looking for that!

There also a Viet Nam veteran's group (from Alabama) sponsoring a prize (in case your knuckle-dragging boss insists that Doonesbury is too 'lefty')

Site seems to be having Cold Fusion jitters right now but bookmark and check back soon

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/26446/#505124

You may need to reload the page a few times.

Tut-tut

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. www.awolbush.com

http://www.awolbush.com

[bluestateguy]

3. Time to bring back the AWOL/chickenhawk/"I had other priorities" issue

I was willing to leave it alone, but if they want to make this about what the candidates were doing in 1968, I welcome that debate.

[Matilda]

4. Yes, it's time the Democrats took the gloves off.

They don't have to resort to Republican-style dirty tricks, but
Bush's AWOL status raises legitimate questions about his courage
and sense of responsibility. Having ducked the military draft, he
seemed to have no sense of obligation to see out his commitment to
the National Guard, and now we have lies and cover-ups about his
AWOL status - I think these are questions that deserve to be asked
in a very loud voice!

Sometimes I wonder if the Democrats aren't just a bit too nice for
their own good.

[central scrutinizer]

21. double standard

Every statement Kerry has ever uttered is being parsed down to the quantum level. On the other hand, we have the press editing and sanitizing Bushco's garbled syntax and malapropisms into coherent sentences to make him sound more Presidential.

[kwolf68]

31. garbled syntax and malapropisms

Haha. I liked this. ... and so true.

[Trajan]

19. Last night on Nightline ...

Author David Halberstrom brought up the salient points: ALso mentioned Cheney's numerous deferrals and Tom Delay's warmongering without personal service ... It was refreshing to hear truth on the TV for a change ...

[Scairp]

5. Never mind

[anakie]

7. why is this even an issue

one simple retort - where in Vietnam was Bush. You Dems have to get real and point out Bush's Cheney's, Rumsfeld et al war records. You could also mention the economy, net job losses, outsourcing, Enron, Iraq, where is Osama, Plame, his drug use, drink driving charge (conviction) etc etc etc

Why are the polls showing Bush even within cooee of Kerry.

[CBHagman]

16. Because there's a well-financed system of attacks now.

And because the standards for campaigns are as low as ever. The Bushies saw blood in the water after they went after McCain, and that was followed by Saxby Chambliss's trashing of Max Cleland.

And the fact that NPR and USA Today have anything to do with something like Ann Coulter and take her for a serious commentator says a lot about how degraded the standards of the media are.

COMPLAIN. Give feedback to your public officials and media outlets. Read them the Riot Act for being such dupes and tools of partisan politics.

This is basically an attempt to destroy Kerry by putting him on the defensive and chipping away at his record. It's a Rove tactic -- attack the opponent at his or her strongest points. And it works (may God punish them for it). And they get away with it, too.

I don't think Kerry will let them get away with it, but the media has to be kept on its toes on this.

[Piperay]

8. Each and everyone of these

'vets' needs to be researched and exposed. If these 'vets' are going to besmirch Kerry they damn well better be clean themselves and above reproach. :mad:

[bowens43]

9. Kerry should have nown this would happen

Making his Vietnam days such an important part of his campaign was not a good idea. It is in no way relevant to his ability to do the job. It should have been on his resume but it shouldn't have been a featured item especially since he later opposed the war. Using it this way was at best hypocritical and it left him open for this particular attack. I agree that the attacks are not credible but we shouldn't even be having these discussions.

[Catt03]

12. I think it is relevant

I think a person who served in a war and who "actually" fought in a war makes a difference. Particularly since we are starting wars all over the the world.

I think a veteran would think twice before jumping into a war like Bush did. I believe they take the experience of death and killing other humans seriously and respect the devastation possible in the decision.

Viet Nam was different. Anyone who was old enough to experience that war, either as a soldier or citizen can relate.

Except Bush and Cheney of course.

[bowens43]

13. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.....

We have a civilian government. IMO military experience is not on only irrelevant , it's undesirable.

[emulatorloo]

14. When the chips were down Kerry acted, but Bush read "My Pet Goat"

That is one reason why it is relevant.

Another reason is that Bush et al very cavalier about sending troops to battle because they know nothing of horrors of war.

Another reason is because it shows John Kerry's history of SERVICE TO AMERICA.

[bowens43]

24. Like I said. I disagree.

I think it was a bad move to make so much out of it. It should have been a foot note not the center piece.

[Massacure]

15. In Vietnam Kerry fought people with RPGs and AK-47s

Today, guess who 140,000 American troops are fighting? People with RPGs and AK-47s.

Iraq and Vietnam have a lot of parallels.

[bowens43]

23. There are parallels

but they're not relevent to the job.

[TankLV]

28. oH - THEY MADE IT VERY RELEVANT!

All those chickenhawks - those who were cowards & did not serve, or our AWOL-DESERTER Chickenhawk-in-chief who starts wars with others peoples lives and money - IT IS VERY RELEVANT simply because of these issues!

It would be relevant for the simple reason that THE SO-CALLED WAR IS BASED ON LIES - PEOPLE DIED FOR THESE LIES! OUR TREASURY - and Bill CLinton's Surplus - WAS LOOTED FOR THESE LIES!

Why do you always only post to defend bunkerboy & ask US to persue a VIABLE and easily understood weakness in bunkerboy's resume?

We should keep it up, and push it HARD & LOUD!

[bowens43]

30. All of your points could be made without

making Kerry's war record the center piece of his campaign.

[TankLV]

35. True - but Kerry is not making it the centerpiece of his campaign.

The repukes are trying to make it an issue.

Kerry's got better things to do.

I'm just responding that the issue, when lied about by the repukes, needs to be hit and hit hard for the lies and slander that it is - that it definitely should NOT be ignored in any way shape or form - and that the lying AWOL chickenshit chickenhawks "record" should ALWAYS be brought up in a vigorous response - every time.

They start this crap - we'll finish and bury them with the TRUTH.

[Bhaisahab]

36. Well said! I wish more Americans thought like you.

bravo!
:headbang:

[leetrisck]

10. Since "they" are questioning Kerry's service, "they"

are also questioning the service of every veteran on that stage supporting Kerry and those were the people that were there.

[yelladawg]

11. chickenhawks are at the bottom of this

ironic that chickenhawks should be the ones questioning Kerry's service record.

[Triana]

17. The friggin HYPOCRISY is stunning...

...but considering the source (Repigs) I shouldn't be surprised, since pretentious hypocrisy is the veritable HALLMARK of Republicans.

This should not even be a debateable, discussable issue and if we weren't dealing with character assassins who cannot win on issues and therefore can only 'win' by assassinating their opponents' character (no matter how stellar their opponent's character is), it wouldn't be.

That elephant only knows ONE trick, and this is it. Same one they used on McCain, Cleland...and everyone else who says 'boo' to their sorry snivelling asses.

[poppabear36]

18. "Nightline" last night

dealt with the issue as "... sigh - will we ever be over Vietnam?" As if that were the issue here.
Tried to leave the viewer with the idea that reasonable people could find fault with bothe Kerry and Bush's service.
Such bullcrap!!!

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

22. trying to read Rove's mind

and after watching Nightline last night, I think this has the potential to neutralize *'s AWOL months. People who aren't paying attention may just see both sides accusing the other's candidate of issues relating to Vietnam. Maybe they'll just throw up their hands and say, why are we talking about something so long ago anyway?

I think * should be pressed again and again to do what McCain did: condemn the ads. This was done by the *same organization* that smeared McCain in 2000, McCain said they are lies, they should be condemned, and * should call for withdrawal of the ads.

[wiggs]

25. RW strategy is working great

Yes, it is boldfaced hypocracy. Yes, it is outrageous to challenge Kerry's service.

Which is all the more reason to conclude that Rove's intent is to keep the media and us from discussing real issues. Every minute we spend on ribbons vs medals, minor wound vs injury, 4 months vs 1 year, Kerry vs O'Neill, Vietnam vs Iraq, Swiftboat Vets for Truth vs Kerry's Swiftvets, etc is a minute NOT spent talking about Bush's failures, secrecy, and incompetence.

I've thought for a while that the WH is completely willing to let us all get lathered up for minor outrages (look! He mangled another speech!), as long as we forget the major ones. How much air time is being used for Swiftboat battles as opposed to Plame, Sibel, WMD, Iraq plunging into civil war, 700,000,000 diverted to Iraq, lying to congress, misleading us into war, Halliburton, Harken, environmental disasters (salmon with dangerous levels of FIRE RETARDANT??), etc. etc. etc..

With all the real disasters and scandals out there, Rove is probably thrilled that the the media is starting to come down on them for not condemning someone else's unfair characterizations of Kerry.

Which brings up another point....

I hope we don't spend all of our outrage on a specific issue or two. Easy for the WH to put all of this to bed soon by condemning the ad (it is not going to run forever anyway) and come out looking noble. Easy for Bush to give a little on stem cell research and look diplomatic and visionary. The worst environmental president in history can make a few well publiced decisions near election time and nearly cancel out 4 years of poor policy. What needs to be the focus is the PATTERN of smearing, secrecy, bad decisions, dishonesty, smearing, scandals, poor process based on ideology, smearing, corporate coziness, and bungled foreign policy. This is an inept and dangerous administration and THAT is the message.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. Merits of Bush's Honorable Discharge (sans medals) is certainly debatable

Bring it on.

[Geo55]

27. Good points

Let the slime put the blood in the water...then step back & act noble.
an' a nice diversion too.

[ItsThePeopleStupid]

33. disagree

I and a lot of others learned in 2000 about seemingly minor issues, such as whether Gore actually said he invented the internet, that Love Story was written after him, whether he was with FEMA in TX in the particular trip in question...

This needs to be answered. We have McCain's statement that the ads are "dishonorable and dishonest". The organization is the same one that smeared McCain in 2000.

This goes to character -- Kerry's AND *'s. Rove is a dirty trickster from way back and he's up to it again.

[info being]

32. The "Collective Conciousness" (TV-watching public) is starting

to forget about Iraq. We have to keep bringing it up. The only response to criticism about Kerry's war record is,

"I don't see why its an issue. Her served in a war. He was also brave enough to oppose it. Bush did neither and stood for nothing. Let's move on. So what do you think about how we were mislead into Iraq?"

[opihimoimoi]

37. Only in America can we attack a war hero and let the deserter slide...

WTF.....Bush was AWOL fron his NG Unit....

This is a disgrace and the Vets out there MUST BE PISSED as HELL.

They attack him cause he came home to protest the WAR? Suppose he didn't and the war still goes on/////???Jnstead of 55000 dead, we have 5 million dead....?

Kerry saved lives by helping to end the stupid war. He is a bigger hero for that than any thing else.

[kodi]

38. unlike bush/cheney, who ran away, kerry rode to the sound of guns.

let's talk cowboy?