U.S. Forces, Close to Attack in Najaf, Suddenly Pull Back

[Snellius]

NAJAF, Iraq, Aug. 11 — After spending today preparing for a major attack against insurgents loyal to the rebel Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sar, American forces called off the attack as it was about to begin.

Officers here described the reversal as a postponement and said the attack could still be carried out at any time. The abrupt reversal came after a day of hawkish announcements by American officers here.

American forces have been close to capturing or killing Mr. Sadr before, but have repeatedly backed off. This time American commanders had vowed to crush his guerrillas, known as the Mahdi Army.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/11/international/middleeast/11CND-IRAQ.html?hp

[hadrons]

1. someone just told Central Command that the Repuke Con is 2 weeks away

[napi21]

2. Can't wait to hear the excuse for this.

I understood the first time several months ago. I don't understand why all the hype only to pull back again.

[Goldmund]

3. WTF??????

I'm not puzzled by them not attacking, nor would I be puzzled if they did attack. What I'm puzzled by is this blatant back-and-forth almost as if with no regard to whether they're even giving the slightest appearance of knowing what they're doing.

[jeff30997]

4. Yeah,they look confused.

[MidwestTransplant]

5. Psyops did't work this time.

They were trying to get them to surrender I am sure. Alternatively, maybe negotiations are in the works.

[Union Thug]

6. I think you're on to something here...

It really does appear that the pressure was meant to buckle them. That it didn't work seems like a significant blow to US military strategy.

[saigon68]

11. YA LIKE SURRENDER THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE WAITING FOR YOU

Spc. Sabrina Harman, also of the 372nd Military Police Company, gives a thumbs-up sign by the body of Iraqi detainee Manadel al-Jamadi.






Chuck Graner and His "Pet Corpse"

[whistle]

17. Is Karl Rove going to have these two of the military's finest....

...attend the RNC in New York so Bush can honor them and have the republican attendees go into wild cheers for 20 minutes? It might be good to have the Iraqi cadaver on stage through the four days of the convention also as a further demonstration of how pleased Iraqi's are to have freedom and democracy.

Four more years of this sh*t? :wtf:

[saigon68]

22. WE COULD NOMINATE LYNNDIE TO GO

SHE NOW HAS AN OFFICIAL FANSITE


http://fourstrings.fanspace.com/photo2.html

Official Lynndie England Fansite




THEY SAY SHE IS HOT AT THE WEBSITE




their Caption below

Believe in her...

If anyone out there thinks they can do a better job in Iraq, the armed forces are always recruiting. Think your excuse is better than the next person? Email me and let me know. But keep in mind, while I love a good rant, there's a difference between that and whining. And trust me, I'll spot it. The US has 2 borders, 2 oceans and 1 sea. Keep America free or pick a direction.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. Good Lord. eom

[daleo]

7. A response to political developments or military developments?

It is hard to say, probably both factors are in play. We went through this dance during the siege of Fallujah as well. If only there was a reliable news media.

I think Bush would love a "we defeated the bad guys" moment at the Republican convention, so if politics are the main reason for this, it is more likely internal Iraqi political developments. There seems to be a lot of jockeying going on there.

[bemildred]

8. Dang, what a surprise.

Maybe they need to bring in the whiz-bang noisemaker thingy
to incapacitate everybody or fry them all with microwaves.

[lebkuchen]

29. A Debby Boone 8 track might do the trick.

Thirty minutes of "You light up my life" would have me begging for mercy.

[bemildred]

31. BeeGees?

Unhhh, Unhhh, Unhhh, Unhhh,
Staying alive, staying alive ..

[stellanoir]

9. if we dare to attack

the Iman Ali shrine (where Mohammed's nephew was martyred), all of Islam will never forgive us.

[DulceDecorum]

28. Those Shiites are NO JOKE

I have had the opportunity of seeing them commemorate the slaying of Imam Ali.
They make a small cut at the top of the forehead next to the hairline and then thay smack this and the blood gushes EVERYWHERE.
It is ususally just the men, and the older boys.
I haven't seen any women do this.
And after you do see a procession of hysterical bloodstained mourners you may look differently on Saddam Hussein's decision to interfere with this particular pilgrimage.

Shia is short for Shiat Ali, which means "the party of Ali."
And Najaf is where the Mosque and the Shrine of Imam Ali is located.
The first time the US military went there, they left unarmed, without shoes and on their knees.
And the US soldiers were HAPPY to get out of there.

The CIA and their friends the sicarii,
are effing NUTS messing around with this lot.
Get out the body bags.
The boys are coming home.

[frank frankly]

35. i don't quite understand some of this. is this cut/blood gush a ritual?

a few more details, if possible.

and who are the sicarii?

thanks for the info and i'd love more...

[psychopomp]

50. Sicarii

Sicarii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sicarii is a term applied, in the decades immediately preceding the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, to the Jewish Zealots, who attempted to expel the Romans and their partisans from Judea, even resorting to murder to obtain their objective. Under their cloaks they concealed sicae, or small daggers, from which they received their name. At popular assemblies, particularly during the pilgrimage to the Temple Mount, they stabbed their enemies or, in other words, those who were friendly to the Romans, lamenting ostentatiously after the deed and thus escaping detection.

-more

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarii >

[Karenina]

45. Mission Accomplished!

Handover of sovereigninninnity complete!! No WMDs found!!!

WHY are Americans running all over a sacred graveyard in a holy city SHOOTING at the people who live there and consider it so? Why? :shrug:

[Aidoneus]

63. `Ashura commemorations are indeed 'colourful', but they are not of Ali(RA)

but of the slaying of his sons and successors, Husayn(RA) and Hasan(A) at Karbala`. It is a highly symbolic act, actually one that so-called "fundamentalists" like Khumayni(HA) and the Hizbu`llah movement frown upon..

In Ali(RA)'s day, the military-strongman Muawiya had been using his base in Damascus (which was run by the 'Old Money' sort of Arab extended families from the peninsula) to seize power away from Imam Ali(RA) and corrupt Islam. The rivalry sparked a civil war between them and would eventually end in an assassination attempt on the both of them, though only Ali(RA) was fallen by this and the tyrant Muawiya would rule as sole caliph. The rivalry continued to the sons of both.

Husayn(RA), in Madinah, was called by the people of Kufa (Ali(RA)'s capital, just outside of what is now Najaf and where Sayyid Muqtada as-Sadr(HA) lives) for assistance against the tyrant Yazid's rule over Islam and Iraq in particular. In short, Husayn(RA) arrived as called, but when things came to blows, those who had pledged their support were too cowardly and complacent to follow up on it. Left out to dry, the small party of Husayn(RA), with many members of the Prophet(pbuh)'s extended family, was massacred by Yazid's large army.

The bloodletting is a basic "penitence" sort of act, comperable examples may be found anywhere but I doubt the symbolism could be matched. Every generation since then has suffered for the non-action of the people of the day and those in these commorations pledge themselves to never let such an opportunity pass again without acting bravely against injustice. Yet even now, there are millions who watch the massacres in Najaf and Fallujah unfold, and do nothing!

[ElementaryPenguin]

10. BushCo runs the military like a corporation - bluffing a strong hand

To get the best deal possible. Only thing is - these Iraqis are fighting for the lives - and they aren't any terms acceptable except for the U.S. to get the fuck out of their country!

[Cocoa]

12. flip flop! n/t

[whistle]

13. BushCo knows that if Sadr is blown away by American forces....

...there will be rioting and full scale battles against our troops occupying the media all through the convention and Karl Rove does not want those images being beamed in over the RNC. So they are trying to rattle Moktada and his followers into giving up peacefully. We'll see what unfolds, but our military is playing a very dangerous game of blind-man's bluff.

[THUNDER HANDS]

15. or maybe

he thinks that if he's gotten al Sadr out of the way now, he's got no more boogyman to blame the insurgency on.

We need a boogyman to keep up some logical front as to why we're still over there.

[skip fox]

24. One of the best reasoned brief analyses on this thread.

n/t

[0007]

33. .....or pin the tail on the dokey, a very childish game indeed.

[Career Prole]

40. Doesn't help matters to have Ali Sistani out of the country with a heart

problem either. He has no love for Americans, but he was a moderate voice for the Shia.
I don't know about a pitched battle interrupting the 'puke convention though. I can just as easily see the media blowing off the war for the convention. If the battle begins they might confine it to the crawler.

[The Magistrate]

14. To Call This The Beginning Of Wisdom, Mr. Snellius

Would be going a bit far. It is far too late for wisdom in this matter: wisdom would have been avoiding the conflict in the first place.

There are only disasterous consequences to various courses to be balanced now. Closing in to winkle out men with guns from the Ali mosque would be a ghastly operation. It would certainly take longer, and prove more bloody, than than our planners, by nature gung-ho optimists, can project. It political consequences would likely be disasterous. On the other hand, not closing in to destroy this force will have ghastly consequences for U.S. and puppet rule in Iraq. It will resound to the prestige of Mr. al'Sadr and his forces, who will be able honestly to claim the U.S. Marines feared to close with them, and recruit to their standard thousands of new armed adherents. That increase in strength will certainly play out in blood in many places on the coming weeks, and will establish Mr. al'Sadr as a figure able to compete with A. al'Sistani for the leading role in the Shi'ite community.

What looms before us here is the effective secession of the Shi'ite portion of Iraq from the realm of the puppet government we have installed in Baghdad, and there really is not much military power can do about that, short of resorting to the salted earth tactics of old Rome....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[saigon68]

16. IT WILL BE "THE ALAMO OF IRAQ"

The parallel is worth noting.

[The Magistrate]

20. Indeed, Sir

Our "Mayberry Machievellis" are far past their depth, and caught in a rip tide to boot....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[bemildred]

25. A good point, Sir.

This will only improve al Sadr's standing.
Beyond stupid.

[The Magistrate]

39. And For The Connoisseur Of Snafu, My Friend

The beauty is that it works to his benefit regardless of which course is adopted, whether as a resistance leader in the flesh or the pantheon of Shi'ite hero-martyrs....

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[skip fox]

30. I'm guessing we go in and get him. And that's probably

the only CHANCE for a less-than horrific outcome. We could capture or kill al'Sadr and the reaction would be less severe than predicted . . . or, better, al-Sadr might see we mean business and surrender. Unfortunately, neither seems likely, but (and here's where the neo-cons play their end game) it's the only choice with any possibility. In addition, the neo-cons are inclined to take the stronger or more forceful of the two possible actions.

[The Magistrate]

41. My Guess Is The Opposite, Mr. Fox

These people are by nature cowards, and act much less forcefully than they talk....

By the way, Sir, it is a pleasure to see you about the place again!

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[DrWeird]

42. "these people"

Which ones? Or both?

[The Magistrate]

44. Those Mr. Fox Called 'Neo-cons', Doctor

Please accept my apologies for a hurried and in-exact expression.

My comment was directed at our own home-grown "Mayberry Machievellis". Their cowardice oozes from their pores; it is well established by their records in life....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[skip fox]

53. Cowards or not, they're between the proverbial hard place

and Iraq, etc. But seriously, as they say, there's another issue, this one political. Bush possibly alienates a portion of his base if he doesn't "take-out" (to quote from Bill O'Reilly's protolanguage) al-Sadr. In fact it was the beaming Irish wonder his-very-self who threatened to reconsider his vote "come election day" if we do not follow through.

Of course it was the same waste-of-human-space who threatened to ask "some very tough questions" if WMDs were not discovered in Iraq.

W.'s base has nowhere else to go, one might say, but many could stay home.

[The Magistrate]

59. Between A Rock And A Hard Place, Sir

These creatures will simply turn to grease. The hard line, actually executed, is the most unpredictably dangerous, and therefore is most likely to be put off. Professionals almost certainly will be advising this, and will give the root cowardice sufficient psychic cover to indulge its natural shrinking cringe from real danger.

It will indeed alienate portions of the reactionary base in this country not to go full steam ahead with massacre. But it will certainly shock and alienate much greater numbers of centerists and moderates to proceed to full-bore killing. The stated preferrence of the public for strong action in the abstract dissolves like spit on a griddle before the actual fact of it, once it is done. For illustration, you may recall that a year or so ago, most polls indicated the populace was willing to accept torturous interrogation of "terrorist" captives, yet once the pictures emerged from Abu Ghraib with the fact of relatively mild torture actually carried out, the popular feeling swung quickly the other the way. The numbers of the polls cannot be reconciled except by accepting that many, many people who, in the abstract, thought they approved of torture were repelled by the actual fact of its practice. Razing the center of Najaf, and loosing the widespread rebellion that would provoke, would prove the same: most who now claim they want to see it would recoil in some horror and disgust from the reality come into being.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Sterling]

32. If they don't take him out it's over for the puppet gov.

That is why I was against this war in the first place. I knew we could not legally or morally do the kinds of things we would have to in Iraq to "win".

Iraqnam is worst than the first.

[DrWeird]

38. And if they do take him out it's not over for the puppet gov?

nt

[The Magistrate]

43. Indeed, Mr. Sterling

If you are going to be the new Romans, you must play by the old Romans' rules, and there is no stomach for that in the polity or its leadership....

The puppet govrnment will be short-lived in any case; Allawis only hope of sutvival in power is to turn on the U.S. himself.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[DivinBreuvage]

67. Even the Roman (or German) Rules won't work anymore, I think

The Romans didn't have to worry about the male population of Palestina, Dalmatia or anywhere else getting access to AK47s, rocket launchers, roadside bombs and what have you. And the Germans were perhaps the most accomplished masters of brutality the world has ever seen, but even they, as their war dragged on, became less and less secure in the partisan-infested hinterlands of the nations they had occupied.

In my reading I once came across a rather chilling statement that a German general made to Hitler at a military conference. They were discussing how to supply the general's troops on the Eastern Front and the general said he couldn't send the convoys through the forest road or none of them would ever come out alive. For all their vicious cruelty, there came a point when even the Germans found that the enemy they had awoken was just too damned big for them to deal with.

[saigon68]

47. IRAQ-NAM is worse than its Namesake

There are 7 or eight sides to this Cluster-Fuck, depending on who you call a side. Maybe more

The Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shias, the Capitalist Corporations, the Neocons who rule Amerika, the West Europeans, the Eastern Block (Russia), the rest of the Islamic world

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. If he gets taken out, he becomes a martyr. That, IMHO,...

...is the absolute worst case scenario for both the puppet government and for the occupying forces.

[Dhalgren]

18. I think it is the realization that the US public is no longer

quite on board with this shit. The article said that this would have to be house to house, on foot, street fighting and that means lots of casualties - not what Caligula wants right now. They tried to bluff and it didn't work. Now they are up to something else, and that is what bothers me.

"The Marine Corps and Army have suspended most of their patrols and operations as they prepare for the broader assault." This does not make sense to me. If you are about to launch an assault into a congested city-scape, you don't suspend patrols, you increase them. But, if you are about to drop a MOAB, why bother patroling. I don't know, this makes little sense to me. I think Caligula is trying to call the shots in Najaf the way Hitler did with Stalingrad - and we all know how that turned out.

[hang a left]

37. I remember the last time we were here.

The told the civilians to evacuate. Then supposedly canceled the attack. The civilians returned and that is when we bombed the holy bejeezus out of Falujah. Is my memory correct?

[daleo]

46. I agree, Fallujah holds lessons to this disaster

This does seem like much the same process. In the end, the marines pulled back (after plenty of bloodshed on both sides). The idea of controlling a nation of 30 million rather heavily armed people who mostly don't want you there with 100 thousand troops is far fetched. The most that can be done is kill a lot of people with indiscriminate firepower, and that rarely furthers your political goals.

[saigon68]

49. Not to mention it Pisses Off Lots of People

That 30 million or so rather heavily armed people who mostly don't want you there

[daleo]

60. Exactly. Then you are stuck in the middle of them.

And you have to crank up the killing even higher or get out. It is a vicious circle, and eventually you have to get out anyway. With or without "honor". Meanwhile they are doing their best to kill you and are probably succeeding quite a lot of the time. All for some deluded neo-con dream, that could have been avoided if the chimp and his crew wouldn't have gone AWOL 35 years ago, and had learned this lesson at that time.

[gratuitous]

19. I didn't think the attack was a good idea in the first place

But calling it off at the last minute certainly doesn't enhance the military's credibility after all the posturing comments from yesterday.

[madrchsod]

21. the guy that is supposed to be

running Iraq told the us government that he wasn`t going along with the plan and would with hold any help..what ever that is..plus this attack would inflame the entire Muslim world -even the moderate nations. we are going to attack the the mosque that is the equivalent to the vactican..not a good idea...

[Goldmund]

23. Somebody needs to tell CNN

It's almost an hour since you posted your message, and their top storry is still "U.S. poised for major assault in Najaf"

[spinbaby]

26. Declare victory and leave

We'll declare victory and pull out, leaving Najaf in the hands of some "very responsible Iraqi official" who just happens to be al Sadr's cousin.

[lebkuchen]

27. Extra US military doctors have been suddenly deployed to Iraq

probably in anticipation of an increased casualty rate.

Bush has painted himself into a corner. Attack and the US casualty rate goes up, right before the election. Don't attack, and the rebels will continue to gain strength.

I remember when Bush said, "I feel great!" just before "shock and awe." I wonder how he feels now, or is he still capable of any feeling, at this point?

[daleo]

36. I doubt if he really cares much either way

He doesn't seem right in the head, as the "giving fish to Barney to play with" episode shows. More serious minded people among the BFEE/PNAC must be reconsidering their options, though.

[Zhade]

55. I've always wondered: would they whack C-plus Augustus?

(I love that name.)

Would the BFEE-PNAC klan off him if they see him as a liability?

I hope not - we don't need this fool turned into a martyr.

[freemarketer]

34. I'm surprised too! Our mighty military armed with tanks, jets

and helecopters fighting a ragtag band of Freedom Fighters armed with AK 47's and RPGs hold up in tombs should kill them all forthwith to preserve American prestige around the world. This makes me sick!! I am ashamed to be an American.

SS

[coalition_unwilling]

58. Ashamed to be an American?

Not me, I'm part of the 54% of Americans who now believe the invasion was a mistake. I was a part of the 35% of Americans who opposed the war even after it began but before the occupation began in full force. And I was a part of the estimated 10 million Americans who marched against the war on Feb. 15, 2003. And I'm part of an on-going peace vigil at the Westwood Federal Building in Los Angeles whose participants represent America at its absolute finest.

On a somewhat positive note, a rag-tag group of irregular guerillas has demonstrated conclusively to the world that the U.S. is not omnipotent. If there is any silver lining to all the suffering and misery our imperial bellicosity has caused, maybe that is it?

[NickB79]

61. Why are you suprised?

Millions of people in the US saw this coming over a year ago, and protested in the streets to try to stop it. We've even seen this before, in Vietnam. We also had all the technological superiority there, and still lost very badly.

If anything, you should be surprised more people couldn't figure this out before the war started.

"should kill them all forthwith to preserve American prestige around the world"

Yeah, and if we happen to kill a few thousand women, children and innocent men in the process, it's worth it right? And the firestorm of anger and revolt from the destruction of the sacred mosque and cemetary that would get even more troops killed would be worth preserving American prestige? Newsflash: as long as Bush is in the White House and continues his war kick, the US no longer has any prestige left to preserve.

[catmandu57]

51. It looks like we've became paper tigers

our growl isn't even going to scare anyone before long. I suspect that some bright boy said hey the rnc is in two weeks, I don't think we can get this done in two weeks.
Either way we're lost, hopefully we can get our troops out of there before the sands close in around them.

[demoman123]

52. Here's the pic that came with the story. Is this a cemetary or a street?

There are almost no roofs.

[Kokonoe]

54. Iraqi south threatens secession

"Basra Deputy Governor Salam Uda al-Maliki has said he is to announce the separation of some Iraqi southern govern orates from the central Baghdad government."....SNIP.."He also wants to shut Basra's port and in effect stop oil exports.



Al-Maliki said the decision was taken because the Iraqi interim government was "responsible for the Najaf clashes"

"Nothing would shock me, we heard of the break-up scenario a long time ago, and it seems that the atmosphere in Iraq nowadays is suitable to carry out any pending agendas"

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/FC96F264-4A45-43B0-B90D-B265192BA98C.htm

[troublemaker]

56. Trying to keep the body count under 1000

[KansDem]

65. My thought exactly...

With the GOP convention only a couple weeks away, it wouldn't look to good to have the Bush Body Count hit "1,000" before or during the "Bush Gush-Fest"

[reprobate]

57. The fiercest military in the entire world......

.....and we can't face down a bunch of lightly armed citizens of a ruined country. And Boosh wants to go after iran now, with their strong military? Talk about your ship of fools.

But it's the political fallout that's keeping them from attacking sadr. If they kill him, there will be an uprising all over the muslim world and the bloodbath will be american blood.

Seems to me that most of us here predicted just such a quagmire even before the invasion. They wouldn't listen.

[skip fox]

62. Here's the AP story link:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ?SITE=ORPOR&SECTION=HOME

Sounds like we've committed ourselves. (Not that we haven't done so before w/o backing off.)

[unionjack]

66. Decisions, decisions.....

I think we can take it that patience with Sadr is worn through and it's up to the interim government to give the go ahead to topping him.

That said, he's Irans stooge in Iraq and I imagine the Washington/ Tehran hotline is red hot. Getting the Iranians to call him off would be a practical fix, but they'd want their pound of flesh.

And guess who flew in from Tehran today - our good friend Mr Chalabi. A warrant out for his arrest, not acted on under instruction from a US appointed interim Primeminister.

What a bloody pantomime. Iraqi freedom my arse.