GIs in Iraq are asking: Why are we here?

[kskiska]

Anne Barnard/ The Boston Globe The Boston Globe
Thursday, August 12, 2004

RAMADI, Iraq Four months into their tour of duty at one of the most dangerous American bases in Iraq, young marines say the slow pace of progress is shaking their faith in their mission.

(snip)

The marines are surprised at some of their own ugly emotions. The Army troops whom the marines replaced told them, "You're going to learn to hate these people," Goward recalled. "I thought, 'With that attitude, no wonder you're having a hard time.' But you know what? They're absolutely right."

Goward, 26, said he would serve in whatever way his country demanded. But like the rest of the squad, he does not plan to re-enlist.

Handy has been overseas 19 of the last 24 months and had spent just 5 months with his 2-year-old daughter. He worries that he will be called up involuntarily - as is permitted for four years - after his active duty ends.

"Are they going to come back and die next time?" he asked, pointing to the younger marines.

more…
http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=533600.html

[lebkuchen]

1. This quote

"I don't think any of us even care what happens to this country," Goward said, as a half-dozen marines, all stationed here in the capital of the restive Anbar Province, nodded in agreement. "I'm here to make sure these guys get home safely. And they're here to make sure I do."

They understand the quagmire they're in, and now they're just trying to stay alive for the duration.

At least in Vietnam you could get yourself a girlfriend for the price of an apple or an orange.

[Tsiyu]

18. WTF?

"At least in Viet Nam you could get yourself a girlfriend for the price of an apple or an orange."

This offends me greatly. I don't understand how cheaply some regard women, I suppose. Dumb me....

[lebkuchen]

21. That was the reality of the situation in Vietnam

Sometimes it didn't require bartering Commissary goods, but rather just passing on girlfriends from one GI to the other.

You should have seen the "Nipa Hut" in the PI.

Once the troops deploy unaccompanied to Romania, Bulgaria and Poland, they'll be promoting the sex slave trade with a vengence. Won't be the first time.

[SquireJons]

28. I think the point of the comment

... was to say that the troops in Vietnam had a way to relax and recreate - in a manner that they saw fit. Suffice it to say that the troops in Iraq have very little outlets for blowing off steam. Men seeking out prostitutes or getting a girl friend in an occupied land does not mean disrespect for those people. In fact, it could be argued to be just the opposite. Sex and the sex industry are complex issues that don't necessarily indicate a low regard to a persons value as a human being. We are, after all, biological units with needs and insecurities. Why is it ok to ask over one hundred thousand people to put their nature on hold for an indefinite period of time? (Unless you die first, of course)

And why are they being ordered to do this? I forget...

[Skittles]

29. using women as semen receptacles

is about the lowest disregard you can show a human being.

[Teaser]

37. No, the lowest disregard is using them as cannon fodder

And y'know, if I were in a war zone, If I saw my buddies dying and getting maimed every day, if that was a possibility for me as well, I can honestly say that the offer of cheap sex as a way of forgetting for a moment where I was would hold some appeal and I wouldn't waste too much sleep worrying about the feminist ramifications of it.

[Skittles]

49. "cheap sex"

that about says it all. And since WHEN did treating people like human beings become a FEMINIST ideal ???

[R Hickey]

54. I have to agree that cannon fodder is the lowest disregard for human life.

Sexual politics/interaction is a complex subject.

Money mixed with sex, violence mixed with sex, committment mixed with sex, love mixed with sex...all these things have different values and intensities for different people at different times.

[They_LIHOP]

51. Only as cheap as you feel...

Considering that soldiers as a group are pretty well-established as being consumers of prostitution product, I think the posters point is worth mentioning - at least the soldiers in Vietnam had inexpensive sex workers (not to mention pot and junk) to cavort with in their time off...obviously, this would be better than NOT having such comforts in such a hostile and stressful environment.

The fact is, Vietnamese sex-workers back then were inexpensive relative to the pay of a US soldier. That doesn't make them 'cheap' women - unless they choose to feel cheapened over it.

As you may know, many of us out here in Dem-land choose to see prostitution as simply a fact of life, a business transaction, neither inherently detrimental for the prostitute nor the john. Doesn't make us bad people that we think that way. Sure, we might wish that no woman would ever be forced into that way of life - assuming she didn't like to have sex with random people for money. However, assuming that such a decision was hers to make, we don't see a damn thing wrong with her making it. Nor is there anything wrong with supporting said decision with our patronage. Nor is it 'bad' that our soldier's economic situation allowed them to enjoy their company.

It seems to me that people who get bent out of shape over a simple mention of the fact that a given time/place is/was populated with prostitutes who didn't charge $300/hr must have some sort of issue of their own around prostitution or men or sex or something of that nature. But that's just me....

[Child_Of_Isis]

41. I remember

when the war first started, there was a soldier on television busting through the door of an Iraqi's home. He said "I didn't come here to kill people, I came here to liberate." He sounded confused and a bit angry. They were lied to from the start.

[MARALE]

42. Welcome!

Glad to have you here!

[Child_Of_Isis]

46. thanks!

My first welcome! ;-)

[Tight_rope]

58. Welcome to DU Child_Of_Isis!

[lebkuchen]

2. and this quote:

Many are on their second tour of duty in Iraq and may face a third if U.S. forces are needed, as expected, to guarantee security through the election of a permanent Iraqi government in late 2005.

This is why a draft is imminent unless we tell the partisans that we're getting out. That is the only way to stop the killing of our soldiers.

It is also why Bush will lose the election. The soldiers will vote against him.

[Qanisqineq]

7. I sure hope they vote against him

When my husband was there and after they got back to the US, they all seemed pretty anti-Bush. Now, 4-5 months later, some of them are saying they don't like Bush but like Kerry less. Very depressing and disheartening when he tells me what they say at work.

[otohara]

9. Well Then - Get Used To It Boys - Because Iran

is next if you keep voting for Bush

[Seabiscuit]

16. Given what we now know about Iran's activities...

If there were to be any second front after Afghanistan/Pakistan in the war against the real terrorists, Al Queda and the Taliban, Iran and not Iraq should have been that second front.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Israel and her apologists in America are the ones agitating for war...

Israel and her apologists in America are the ones agitating for war against Iran, just as they did for war against Iraq.

We deserve what we get if we are so stupid as to repeat the same mistake of doing the dirty work for Israel.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. Now they want you to believe that Iran was connected to Al Qaeda...

...and that Iran has WMDs. Based on the track record of the people telling you this information, do you believe it?

Who's next? Canada?

[leesa]

34. Ummm...you don't invade and blow up countries to roust a handful of

terrorists. WTF is it with this American mentality that we can just club our way through the world. What the hell is Iran doing to us??? Yet you think it's appropritae to murder thousands of people doing absolutly nothing wrong to get a potential terrorist!!!
The war against terrorists is a SCAM. Wake up man!

[Dhalgren]

35. You are absolutely right!

And we all need to start saying this over and over. "The War Against Terrorism is a scam!" It is a lie and a hoax and we should stop buying into it! Some people just can't seem to shake the media brainwashing on this one. "There is no war on terror!"

[Terran]

40. What "activities" would those be, pray tell? n/t

[shadu]

43. There is ABSOLUTELY no good reason to invade Iran!

(What the hell have you been reading?)

[lebkuchen]

12. If they choose to vote for Bush, and Bush gets in...

there's nothing anybody can do to help them when they're on their 3rd rotation to the Middle East, with their 18 y.o. children following behind. They had their chance to attempt a change.

[Bigmack]

50. Rush Limbaugh is on...

Armed Forces Radio, so no wonder the troops are confused. They know damn well that they are in Iraq because of lies, but Rush's rants scare them away from Kerry.

Limbaugh is the REAL Satan.

[lebkuchen]

3. and this quote:

"People are tired of us being here," said Lance Corporal Anthony Robert, 21, of Charlottesville, Virginia. "It's the same as if someone came to the U.S. and started taking over. You'd do what you'd have to do."

The troops are finally using reflective imagery--"How would WE like it?"

The jello is jigglin'. This war is finished.

[leftchick]

20. INDEED --"How would WE like it?"

There is hope if a young 21 year old soldier is able to still think criticaly.

[lebkuchen]

4. "It doesn't matter how much America looks like it's trying to help,"

said the squad's leader, Corporal Glen Handy, 26, of Las Vegas. "If we stay 10 years or if we stay one year, we're going to leave and there's going to be chaos here."

Uh, Corporal, there's chaos there now.

And then, this last one:

"I can't say we're failing in our mission," he concluded at the end of the talk around the card table. "Our mission has changed. It's just to kill the bad guys. And we're doing that."

Although he doesn't yet realize it, his mission is to kill any Iraqi who gets in the way of Bush's oil. It's a pathetic situation.

[Wright Patman]

19. If he were to kill all the 'bad guys'

he'd have to commit suicide.

I am tired of either side thinking it is 'good' and 'righteous.' War is stupid and the human race should have overcome its tendency to engage in this reptilian response by the 21st century.

These men ought to be embarrassed they are engaging in this behavior. There is no honor in what they are doing.

It reminds me of the line from a '70s song. 'There ain't no good guys. There ain't no bad guys. There's only you and me and we just disagree.'

Only that song was about a failed romance instead of a war.

[JohnyCanuck]

5. It should be evident to them by now. However in case it isn't

I'll post here what I just posted on another thread in response to a similar question,i.e. "What are we doing there?"

Here's Dick Cheney addressing the London Petroleum Institute in 1999:

For the world as a whole, oil companies are expected to keep finding and developing enough oil to offset our seventy one million plus barrel a day of oil depletion, but also to meet new demand. By some estimates there will be an average of two per cent annual growth in global oil demand over the years ahead along with conservatively a three per cent natural decline in production from existing reserves. That means by 2010 we will need on the order of an additional fifty million barrels a day. So where is the oil going to come from? Governments and the national oil companies are obviously in control of about ninety per cent of the assets. Oil remains fundamentally a government business. While many regions of the world offer greet oil opportunities, the Middle East with two thirds of the world's oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize ultimately lies, even though companies are anxious for greeter access there, progress continues to be slow. (emphasis mine /jc)

www.peakoil.net//Publications/Cheney_PeakOil_FCD.pdf

With a world oil production peak possibly closer than many realize and with the neo cons in the Bush administration planning to force a US hegemony over the rest of the world as laid out by the PNAC and other neo con think tanks (see PNAC 101) control of oil and petroleum resources would become a vital strategic goal. Energy investment banker Matthew Simmons was a member of Dick Cheney's 2001 Energy Task Force. See what Mr. Simmons was probably telling the Big Dick(head) by reading my sig line below.

In a way it really doesn't matter whether the Peak Oilers are being unduly pessimistic or alarmist about a rapidly aproaching oil production peak. If Cheney and the rest of the oil soaked gang of robber barons he consorts with believe that Peak Oil is likely to be shortly upon us (ie within 5 to 10 years) it would go a long way in explaining just why the mad rush to get into Iraq and to stay there no matter what the costs.

[lebkuchen]

6. OIL wasn't mentioned one time in the Herald Tribune piece

"No, America's goals are much more altruistic than self-profit. We're here to help the suffering Iraqi people, by shooting them."

That's the "beauty" of neocon control over the media.

[DrWeird]

8. Those GIs are so unamerican.

Who the hell do they think they are to question authority? What a bunch of communists.

[Voltaire99]

10. Why are you there? Here's your answer, boys

Because you were betrayed by the corrupt political establishment, the corrupt media, and brainwashed TV addicts.

Good luck and godspeed getting home: don't count on politicians to get you out. Speak up, often and as loudly as you can, and tell your loved ones back home to raise holy hell.

[lebkuchen]

11. A CNNI reporter just quoted this Boston Globe piece

As violence is raging in Najaf, he said that a growing number of US troops are asking this question, "Why are we here?"

Praise God. The media is starting to wrestle itself away from Rove's grip.

[FormerOstrich]

13. The AZ Republic has a "Special Report"

on letters from Iraq. Thus far, it has only been one soldiers e-mails/letters. I have found it very interesting. Some of it is a little difficult to read, as their selection is about what you would expect for ultra-conservative audience.

What I found most interesting was the shifting in the tone as time elapses. In a couple of places he mentions how brainwashed the Iraqi people are. I found a bit of irony in that.

Here are some excerpts (these are from the later e-mails emphasis is mine):

As for this deployment, with 1st Armored Division gone, our battalion is the senior unit in Iraq. It is now certain that we will be here over one year and that the earliest you will see me is in late September.

This is too long a deployment for these men. So many soldiers and officers are trying to sort out divorces now and have terrible problems back home. Families are not surviving this deployment. There is already talk of us coming back to Iraq for another year in six months.

The worst thing is that nobody can get out if their contract ends within 90 days of a unit's next deployment. And soldiers who were told to sign extensions because they would get more money and still be in the same amount of time since they had been "stopped lossed" will or could be dragged into another year-long deployment.

This is hard on the men. How is it that the Army can't be organized enough to set a date a unit will leave? The Army's daily indecisiveness and whim leave thousands of families jerked around.

The Army can set dates to come into this country, but somehow can't set dates to leave Iraq. And on top of this, the 2nd Brigade from 10th Mountain Division will sit in Kuwait for a month because they "don't know where to send them."

....snip

Some of these men were generals in Saddam's former regime and came across as very good men and leaders. They complained that the Fallujah Brigade's general was going to take over their former battalions and that the Iraqi National Guard leaders in Fallujah are corrupt murderers and thieves.

....snip

I fully support the handover to the Iraqis because I know that there is no other way to do this. I also know that most Iraqi police and National Guard personnel desperately side with America against the terrorism here.

However, one thing makes me mad. I see all the money the U.S. has spent on the ING. All their soldiers are getting new interceptor vests with plates while our men came into this country without this good equipment. All the Iraqis are getting brand-new uniforms and supplies while my men have struggled to get uniforms to replace the four sets they were issued a year ago. I have only been here since March and all my uniforms are trashed.

Our government is supplying the police and ING with brand new AK-47s and RPGs from Russia and China. What police force uses RPGs? I wish they had spent that money on healthy American-made firearms that are only 5.56 caliber like we use instead of the 7.62 caliber AK-47s. This is important so if these weapons were to fall into the hands of the enemy or if we had to come back to fight them again we would not be "outcalibered" like we are now. As a result, we have to wear 40 lbs. of armor.

After matching the serial numbers of most of the weapons we end up picking off terrorists, we find that the weapons were stolen, then sold to the terrorists to begin with. The cops here drive new Dodge Rams, wear ski masks for identity protection, and wave RPGs, RPKs and AK-47s out of the beds of the trucks. Why do we give everyone the brand-new German Glock pistols, when the only U.S. soldiers that have side arms are captains and up?

We have caught them selling brand-new Ford Expeditions that we provided them with days earlier. This is hard for my soldiers when my soldiers don't make enough to make payments on their used Dodge Stratuses. Whoever is outfitting these guys is doing a better job than whoever outfits us. And I fear that the worst part of this is that one day U.S. soldiers might be at the other end of their new muzzles. But enough of this.



You can read the series here:

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special23/

[lebkuchen]

22. Excellent read

I think I'll write to the AZ paper myself. I've made a few observations from the "home"front.

[leftchick]

24. very intersesting read. Thank you for posting....

I can't help but think all of this arming of the ING is going to backfire literally on the US Occupiers.

[FormerOstrich]

25. You're welcome...I'm glad you enjoyed (for lack of better word) it

I'm still mulling it over. Sometimes it takes me awhile to form opinions on something. As I say, I'll have to ponder it.

I agree with you about the arming of the ING potentially backfiring on us. It certainly sounds like it is a fear of this young man as well.

Of course, it wouldn't be the first time. The stingers that OBL's body guards had/have are gifts from Ronnie.

Thank you for yours and lebkuchen comments. I know feeling like a thread killer is common, but it seems like everything I post is invisible. I'm sure it's because I can't spend the amount of time I did here. However, it is since I can't spend the amount of time and what I do contribute seems un-noticed I start to feel out of synch. Since DU was the only vehicle that kept me going at times in the past I still cling to it.

I hope you have a great day!!

[leftchick]

26. I always read your posts and...

I love your handle! :)

peace,
lc

[JSJ]

14. Why are we here?

Son, you're there because you volunteered to go where you were told- now go cry in someone else's corn flakes.

[lebkuchen]

23. With luck, his next deployment will be AFTER the 90 day separation hold

and he'll be able to get out, like so many are doing right now.

[Dhalgren]

31. I would never tell a soldier who was waking up to

the realization that he'd been betrayed by his country, his president, and his Army to "go cry in some else's cornflakes". These soldiers volunteered to serve for this country's defense and advancement, not to be used in a criminal enterprize. There are some soldiers who are criminals, psychopaths, and morons - these will willingly kill anyone they are told to and do not care why. But there are a large number of soldiers who are begining to "see the light" and realize that they are working for traitors. These are the soldiers we have to support and help in any way we can.

In a revolution every opponent is a potential, future partisan.

[They_LIHOP]

53. I think you misinterpret his/her post...

I think it's supposed to be voiced from the perspective of someone like Rummie. They should have used quotation marks or something to show it was not the poster's own thought, so I see your confusion, but I'd bet that's what it was...

[JSJ]

55. i would suggest that these troops...

...had they done a little background on the history of US military actions, would have realized before they signed their enlistment papers what a series of criminal acts they'd be ordered to commit- based only on the criminal acts the US military has committed in usually poor and vulnerable countries. Or, are they not supposed to be interested in such pertinent details that would have such a huge impact on their future lives and those of their victims? If not, then the troops are too dumb to be in any position of authority such as that of a troop strapped w/ a personal weapon system.

Yes, opponents can become allies, but not before they stop killing children, women and unarmed men in a very defenseless country. And even then, there should be some expectation of punishment for their past crimes committed while in the service of shlubs like Dub.

[Djinn]

60. not just US military actions

but basically every military action ever instigated by a powerful nation (and many of those instigated by piss poor nations too) while there is often a nice humanitarian spin that can be applied, even truthfully in some cases (ie Nazi's killing millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies etc) and there's sometimes a dubious "defence of the homeland" reasons but they are NEVER the sole reasons to go to war.

If stopping the bad men was the reason we went to war, why no war in Burma? why no war in Saudi? Wars are almosts always about power, money or resources.

That's why I'd never join the army, if I thought for a second that it was about protecting the downtrodden and my own nation then I'd do it a second.

[JSJ]

62. and the real question is...

...if you and I can see the true goals and behavior of this gov and it's military, why can't recruits and troops? I think they do and join up anyway for reasons both bigoted and greedy. Or, they're really dumb, and then, they'd have no business being in such positions of power in the first place. As well, according to a recent article in the LA Times, 30% of the troops were criminals before enlisting and many go on to illustrious lives of crime while serving.

[IndianaGreen]

15. To GIs in Iraq: Why are you there?

You are not fighting for my freedoms, or for my security in Iraq. You are fighting and dying for NOTHING! Come home now!

Hint: The Russian army threw their weapons down in 1917 and returned home on their own. They subsequently helped to overthrow the tyrant that had send them to war.

[wicket]

30. It's like that old saying:

"What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

[Dhalgren]

33. I would feel so much respect for any soldier who simply

said, "No more". I am waiting for the glorious day when whole companies of soldiers will simply say, "No more."

[shadu]

44. Yes, I am waiting for the Refuseniks, as well

I was a Viet Nam war refusenik and I paid the price.
And I am proud of it.
I am very very very disappointed in the dearth of
Iraqi refuseniks. Where the fuck are they?

[Algomas]

61. Shadu-Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I salute your courage.

Like they used to advise us all to say in response to destructive drugs: Just say NO!

[Barkley]

52. toppling Saddam Hussein, sovereignty ... what's next?

OIL!

[Stuckinthebush]

32. How many of these troops will vote for Bush?

Not as many as in 2000, that's for sure.

[yelladawg]

36. It's an unjust war

Thia war is wrong and the troops are seeing that.

[Mari333]

38. Michael always knew it was bullshit. Try and tell a 21 yr old

they should have chosen jail over going over there, tho. They dont listen.
http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[Rose Siding]

39. Cpl Handy is right

"It doesn't matter how much America looks like it's trying to help," said the squad's leader, Corporal Glen Handy, 26, of Las Vegas. "If we stay 10 years or if we stay one year, we're going to leave and there's going to be chaos here."

[Domitan]

45. Mutiny! Mutiny!

I've been waiting a long time for sufficient number of troopers to mutiny against their insane orders. Hopefully it will come before too long.

[saigon68]

47. DEAR GIs THE REASON YOU ARE IN IRAQ-NAM

Is that a clueless SOCK-PUPPET of a PRESIDENT named the Chimpanzee, and his NeoCon friends have decided to exploit the country for their own personal economic gain.

Your courage and Your lost lives will insure that they succeed.

The quote below is for you.


"Thanks for Nothing" , President R. Cheney

[veteran_for_peace]

48. Our Soldiers Duty

A soldiers duty is to follow orders. They don't have to like the orders that they has been given but they do have to follow. It is the duty of our government to make sure that they don't send the soldier in to harms way without a justification.
When our government fails in that the soldiers morale will plummet. They will question the purpose of their mission and the reason that their friend die in some foreign land. All the fire power in the world cannot make up for a soldier with low morale. I hope John Kerry keeps his promise and bring our boys and girls home. I will do my part and vote for him. But he better bring my brothers and sisters in arms soon.

[Tight_rope]

56. Because the "Commander in Fool" is stupid and evil....that's why!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

57. What's left?

From Goward's point of view, the United States has fulfilled its goals in Iraq: toppling Saddam Hussein, capturing him, handing off formal sovereignty to Iraqis. "What's left?" he asked.
http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=533600.html

What's left is guarding Halliburton's oil.

[PurityOfEssence]

59. The traditional reason: so rich people can get richer

Ahhh, values...