US Military Will Pull 100,000 Troops From Asia,Europe

[cal04]

-FT

The US is expected to announce on Monday that it is pulling 70,000 troops out of Europe and Asia in the largest restructuring of its global military presence since the second world war.

People briefed on the plan say two-thirds of the reductions will come in Europe, most of them military personnel stationed in Germany who will be sent back to US bases. An additional 100,000 support staff and military families worldwide will be part of the realignment.

The changes are expected to be announced by President George W. Bush at a speech to the Convention of Veterans of Foreign Wars in Cinncinatti, Ohio, on Monday. Although Germany will remain home to the largest contingent of American forces on the continent, both army divisions now based there the 1st Armoured and the 1st Infantry could be moved to US bases.Germany will continue to be home to sophisticated training and command facilities and to a mobile infantry force which will be equipped with the new light-armoured Stryker vehicles and is expected to form the core of a restructured European presence.

The Bush administration has been re-evaluating the US military's global posture almost since its first days in office. Senior Pentagon officials emphasised that the move was not intended as a punishment for Germany's lack of support in the Iraq war. In Asia, the reduction is expected to include the 3,500-soldier brigade from South Korea, which was recently deployed to Iraq. There will also be a shift of some European command headquarters. The navy's European HQ, which has been in London since the second world war, will be moved to Naples..

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/117d14c8-ed63-11d8-a587-00000e2511c8.html

[Az_lefty]

1. Good Grief!!!!

:wtf:
:bounce:

[Davis_X_Machina]

2. "Senior Pentagon officials emphasised that the move...

... was not intended as a punishment for Germany's lack of support in the Iraq war."

In further news, I am a penguin.

[Toots]

11. Is it true that your fellow penguins won't vote for Bush*

:silly:

[NMDemDist2]

3. isn't it really because they need the fresh troops for the meat grinder

called Iraq?

[Mari333]

4. and Iran....hold onto your seatbelts....n/t

[jdj]

7. Just got an e-mail from my best friend in the Navy.

her unit is scheduled to go to Kuwait in January. God I hope Kerry wins, I have been walking on eggshells dreading hearing this, and the other shoe finally dropped.

[Mari333]

10. ((((hugs)))) Bush has hurt so many people, one cant keep count

((((hugs)))))

[jdj]

15. Thanks Mari, that means alot coming from you.

She has had several strokes of luck until this point (if you call having to have a hysterectomy at 35 luck), but if Bush wins, then I guess she will have to go.

[Bo]

29. Amma Hugs

[goforit]

33. Billions of Amma Hugs!!!!!!

Now that is one saint we all need!!!

[Az_lefty]

13. Iran.......I forgot about that one.

bush* better not be thinking about going into Iran, that would
be disastrous. :mad:

[Barkley]

22. Isn't Iran's population 2.5 times larger Iraq's population?

"Bringing them democracy" would require a lot more than 135,000 troops.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. Iran is also 2.5 times larger than Iraq.

[lastknowngood]

5. OK you guys here's the real poop. That is infantry and armour

were do you think they're really going? You guessed it back to U.S. for training and family time but the armour will head to the new Iraqi bases. Which is where the troops will be headed after a few months state side. They are preparing for the next leg to the PNAC plan. We have 135000 in Iraq already add another 100000 and look out Iran and everybody else.

[NMDemDist2]

6. i expected as much

crap :mad:

[jdj]

8. Yes.

She just completed 4 months special training, got back Aug. 9, so if the Navy is doing this then I guess they are following the same plans.

[Lizzie Borden]

9. Right On!

.

[lovuian]

17. Here comes WWIII

Iraq is the New Base of Operations

Bush is sure win he is going on to the Next step

Usually arrogance gets them every time

[PurityOfEssence]

38. But Syriasly, folks

We're not bent on world domination.

We're not.

[Toots]

12. Does Congress have no say in this?

I find it hard to believe a Lame Duck President can do this without provocation. And we all know Bush* is a Lame Duck. Kerry is to much man for him.

[IndianaGreen]

19. There is no reason for US troops in Europe

and there is even less reason for the continued existence for NATO. The only reason we kept NATO around is in order to facilitate arms sales for our merchants of death, and as a way to keep our thumb on the Europeans lest they get funny ideas about developing an independent collective security apparatus.

As to why is Bush doing this, who cares? The point remains that NATO is obsolete and that the US has no business keeping troops in Europe.

All empires are bad, including our own!

[lebkuchen]

47. That would all be well and good in the ideal scheme of things

We're far from "ideal" at the moment, especially taking into account our depleted army. When recruiters have no incentives to include in the military package, (re)enlistments go down, and they are, as I type, because of the never-ending unaccompanied tours. Troops don't want to be away from their families for 15 months every other year. Bush's answer? Take away the appealing tours of Europe, the Army's greatest incentive, and then add insult to injury by closing military dependent schools stateside after you send the families back unaccompanied. Does this sound like a good idea to you? I suppose it is, if you prefer to maintain a military like Palau's or Costa Rica's.

There is no "reason" to maintain base dependent schools in southern states, either, since we no longer have segregation. However, to come to that conclusion, you have to ignore the fact that those states' public school systems are bankrupt and can't support the added burden of such a huge increase in population, never mind the kinds of services military dependents require these days, such as services for emotional/physical/learning/speech impairments. If enlistees' kids must rely on underfinanced public school systems while families are stationed (unaccompanied) in Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and so forth, why should anyone with a family enlist? Indeed, the Bushies seem to be pushing exclusively for an unmarried armed forces. To accomplish that, you'll need a draft to get enough "boots on the ground."

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=22923&archive=true

Then, think of costs to rebuild elsewhere, such as in Romania, Bulgaria and Poland. Don't expect those third world countries to pick up the tab. On Okinawa, it is cheaper to keep US bases there than to house everyone in the U.S., because the Japanese pay for much of the base support, to include construction and utilities. Same as in Germany.

Lawrence Korb lays it all out in this article w/respect to Germany. Close bases in Germany and watch the deficit/debt rise like a helium balloon while (re)enlistments fall like a lead one.

http://www.cfr.org/pub6172/lawrence_j_korb/the_pentagons_eastern_obsession.php

[IndianaGreen]

54. We shouldn't have troops overseas

We shouldn't be an empire. We must return to our own borders and become contributors to a collective security system which is what the United Nations was designed to be.

We must stop blackmailing the UN to do our bidding, and the Security Council must be reformed (and that means no more vetoes for the winners of WWII, and no more protection for the criminal state of Israel).

As to dependent schools, we should actually reform the public school system so that there is equality of financing. The way it is set up now, wealthy school districts have good schools while poor school districts are languishing. We could use Cuba as a model of how a public education system is supposed to be run like, not to mention public health system.

[lebkuchen]

59. Those are all "should(n't)s," and I agree. We should do a lot of things

to modernize America to make it on par with the rest of the world.

I'm talking about immediate needs. If we do value a military to defend us (not to offend the world), then we need to start worrying because we are gutting our army, and we are headed for the draft, rapidly.

If Kerry is voted in, he's going to have to take immediate steps to make our army, NG and reserves happy again. Otherwise, Bush's current slash and burn of our forces will undermine Kerry's four year term. Perhaps that what the losing neocons have in mind?

[todwest]

21. FYI

"Lame Duck" refers to an elected official who is either precluded from running, or chooses not to run for re-election, and is, therefore, no longer able to perform his or her job in a robust fashion.

Bush is certainly lame, but he is not a "lame duck," unfortunately.

[dbt]

48. OK. How about "lame DICK" then?

:evilgrin:
dbt

[Bandit]

60. No one seems to know the answer to your question

They all went off in another direction. I don't know either but I will acknowlege the question at least. I think Congress should have some say in such a large troop movement whether it is justified or not. As for Bush* being a Lame Duck or not, in the real sense he is not but I do believe if things go as they appear to be going Bush* couldn't be any lamer.

[napi21]

14. Is this maybe a political ploy to say we're bringing troops home

just to win the election? I smell a big rat here. I suppose it's one way they could get enough troops for Iraq and not have to say that.

[shanti]

16. so this is only army?

or is it all branches? my son is in the a.f. in germany.

[todwest]

18. Troop Movements R' US

Or maybe they're being shifted back to the U.S. in order to quell civil disturbance should the Bush junta suspend the elections and declare martial law...

Sorry. I always assume the worst.

[Dhalgren]

23. Welcome to DU, Tod!

And I was thinking along the same lines. If and when Caligula decides to announce martial law, he'll need the "German" guard to quell the unrest. A few tanks on the streets, a few "Kent State"-like displays and that would pretty much take care of any "nattering nabobs of negativism". Hail Caligula!

[BrotherBuzz]

24. Has the Posse Comitatus Act been repealed?

[todwest]

31. Does it Matter?

Seriously, why would a president who intends to illegally preserve his administration be concerned with an obscure federal law?

I would also point to the establishment of Northern Command as being a de facto end-run around "posse comitatis."

[BrotherBuzz]

34. I think Congress has a say in this....

and I suspect they may grow a spin for a change.

[todwest]

36. What Makes You Say So?

A suspension of federal elections would mean all incumbents would remain in office collecting their salaries indefinitely.

Not much of an incentive to "grow a spine," if you ask me.

Keep 'em coming, I'll keep whacking 'em out of the park ;)

[ilovenicepeople]

55. Howdy todwest Welcome to DU!!

Very logical thought patterns you have,I find the negative approach to be a breath of fresh air.Like I've said before:"It;s never to late to be a pessimist.":hi:

[maxsolomon]

57. i know you meant spinE

but 'grow a spin' works just as well!

[BrotherBuzz]

58. Perhaps I did...

Unfortunately my dinosaur computer browser doesn't support speilcheck. Nevertheless, unlike Bush*, I'll take responsibility for my mistakes. ;)

[bemildred]

20. The final admission that Shinseki was right.

Now, a year and a half after the war was "over", they
are going to put in more troops and try to pacify the place,
because failure is just not "acceptable". Too little, too
late. It will be interesting to see if the new president
Kerry goes along with this "plan" and throws his presidency
down the toilet too.

FWIW, I don't think this has anything to do with Iran, if they
cannot handle Iraq, how are they going to do anything with Iran?

[Disturbed]

25. Most politicians agree..

that the US forces must stay in Iraq. The reason given are bogus, such as security must be maintained for Iraq to achieve democracy. The real reasons are centered around the control of oil.

[bemildred]

26. They can agree all they want.

If they'd put Allawi in a year and a half ago and paid some
attention to giving people jobs and clean water and some
electricity, they would have had a shot. Now all their agreement
will accomplish is the final humiliation of the empire, it
is much too late. They will never make a nickel off Iraqi oil,
or solve any of our problems in that area with Iraqi oil,
until there is a legitimized Iraqi government to sell it to us.

[Merlin]

37. Bingo!

Nail hit squarely on head.

[lovuian]

27. This is exactly what happened in Vietnam ..Excalation!!!

More troops mean more casualties...

[bemildred]

28. Have a cigar! nt

[ksatriyakiller]

30. I like this idea, really I do

I want all those troops pulled, including the ones all throughout the middle east (especially Saudi Arabia). bring them back and if kerry is elected make sure they are not sent to Iraq.

we can send some of those troops to africa to help out in darfur, etc...

i do believe we need to leave other countries.

[goforit]

32. OMG!!!!......This is unbelievable!!!

WE must be despised around the entire planet.

[TaleWgnDg]

35. this one definitely requires . . .

the toilet bowl to be flushed !!!!!!!!!!

[Noodleboy13]

39. Uh 'DUHbya' , It's not actually a game of RISK.

Although it does seeem like he's closing in on the Middle East.
Those a-holes in PNAC seem to be in a bit of a rush to get their pieces in place for their little exercise in empire-building.

Their warmongering is so offensive not only in it's audacity but in it's ineptitude. Coupled with their sneering flagrant mendacity, it often makes me want to
:puke:

[Tight_rope]

40. Well we know where those 100,000 soldiers are going....Off to war!

[lebkuchen]

42. Right now the units are being recycled on rotational one year tours

to Iraq or Afghanistan. Second tours for units are underway, even third tours for some. Bush doesn't want to implement the much needed draft before the election because it would strike more fear in the hearts of Americans than his "evil doers" campaign, which is working so successfully.

But the draft will surely come after November IF Bush gets back in the WH. Kerry would be able to work with our allies to solicit their military support in helping the US make as graceful an exit out of Iraq as possible.

If Kerry doesn't get in, the CATO Institute's forecast will come into being: a generational commitment to "democratizing" the Middle East, aka "all war, all the time" to the tune of hundreds of billions of US tax dollars to pay for it.

[lebkuchen]

41. Talk about flip-flopping. I work on a 1ID base in Germany.

The Bushies have been going back and forth on this issue for two years. First they were going to send all 1AD families back to the states and redeploy 1AD troops stateside after their (first) year of duty in Iraq. Then they decided that wouldn't be a good idea because the families screamed about having to uproot themselves while the spouse was deployed and losing their support network (which is always better overseas than stateside).

Then, the Bushies said they were going to announce plans for base closure last March. But action picked up in Iraq/Afghanistan and (re)enlistments were dropping (no more nice locations to offer), so they put that on hold until Feb. 2005.

The Bushies must feel they could lose this election because NOW they're trying to shove this base closure crap down our throats before November.

The deal is, the Bushies want to move the families stateside and send troops unaccompanied to Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. They will privatize base support and reap no-bid contracts for base construction and cleanup.

This and the closure of the dependent base schools stateside will be the last nail in the coffin of troop morale and incentive for (re)enlistment.

The draft is imminent, folks. Start making preparations.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=&article=15472&archive=true

Among detractors are rank-and-file troops who fear that Jones’ plans for rotational forces would leave wives and children behind and would strip away one of the biggest benefits of military life: a chance for troops to live and travel with their families overseas.

“Units in the Army have been run hard since the fall of the Iron Curtain,” recently retired Gen. Montgomery C. Meigs, who turned over command of U.S. Army Europe in December, told congressional leaders during testimony Feb. 26. “It is relatively easy to find field grade officers and senior NCOs (noncommissioned officers) with three to five tours in harm’s way. Child and spouses bore much of the strain of that pace. Many would see moving to a rotational structure and its obvious implications as a breach of faith.

“The impact on morale,” Meigs said, “would be devastating.”

[saigon68]

43. Used up thrown away

Seen this before.

I really don't understand why anyone would want to stay in the service now except those who really have few responsibilities to family.

If my significant other had been in Bosnia 4 years ago Had been in Baghdad 18 months ago and was getting ready to go back to Iraq next March I'd be livid.

[lebkuchen]

44. There are a lot of divorces underway right now

Lots of tears.

There's a mass exodus from the army, too. I've heard there's a Sept. deadline to decide, in or out.

This NYT editorial, July 30, 2003 by Lawrence Korb, former Assistant Sec. of Defense under Reagan, demonstrates the insanity of those in the WH who presume to know something about how to run a military. He never mentions private contracts in this piece, however. I wonder if he's figured it out by now.

I think the Bushies are preparing their golden parachutes, just like Cheney did, in anticipation of an election loss.

http://www.cfr.org/pub6172/lawrence_j_korb/the_pentagons_eastern_obsession.php

The Pentagon is smitten with Romania. And Poland. And Bulgaria, too.

The Defense Department is considering closing many, if not all, of its bases in Western Europe - which are primarily in Germany - and to shift its troops to spartan new sites in the former Soviet bloc. Already we are told that the First Armored Division, now on the ground in Iraq, will not return to the bases in Germany it left in April. And Gen. James Jones, the head of the European Command, said this month that all 26 Army and Air Force installations in Germany, except for the Air Force base at Ramstein, might be closed. In effect this could mean transferring five army brigades, some 25,000 troops, to the East.

<cut>

It costs the Pentagon about $7 billion a year to maintain its German bases. Ramstein, the biggest, costs about $1 billion - so the others average only about $240 million each, or the same as a single F/A-22 fighter jet. Moreover, the costs of constructing these bases were paid long ago - most were built during the cold war with German money. To move its forces to Eastern Europe the United States will still have to build bases or upgrade existing ones - these facilities, built in the Soviet era, are crumbling and out of date. Many have severe environmental problems like unexploded ordnance and toxic waste, including old chemical weapons.

Moreover, although the cost of living in Eastern Europe is lower than in Germany, it is unlikely that these countries will contribute to the maintenance of our bases - as Germany has been doing to the tune of $1 billion a year. Finally, as we have seen with our domestic efforts at downsizing, closing bases takes time and money - in America it has taken at least five years and as many as eight to recoup the costs of the shutdown.

more...

[saigon68]

45. It's really Too Bad

What is need is a consistent foreign policy that reapects and works with the "NEW Europe" The Neocons will never do this (ie: jokes about cheese eating surrender monkeys etc)

I was in Denmark and Sweden last summer and all my relatives there were amazed that America was still in love with the Chimp. They are still amazed I might add.

[lebkuchen]

46. Europe is giving Americans the benefit of the doubt for the moment

"curious" election that 2000's was, and all that.

But all bets are off if Americans return Bush to the WH knowing what the whole world knows now.

The EU is currently working on a united defense strategy, Churchill's "United States of Europe," if you will. Powell got a tongue-lashing from French/German foreign ministers before "shock and awe," when it started to become apparent to them that the Bushies' goal was to undermine the EU. The EU is working to thwart that effort.

Europe will shun the US if that pompous ass Bush returns for four more years of destruction.

I was in Denmark/Sweden/Norway, too! Did you go to Aero? Good camping and bike riding!

[murray hill farm]

49. Very scary stuff..this!

My son is in the researves..now in Colorado...he is 42 yrs old...and his life is on hold..he should have been retired two yrs ago, but he waits to see if he will be needed in Iraq..and not by choice. Will he go now..probably! I am no longer optimistic about the future of the USA. I live in Mexico now, but just bought a very little old house in Brunswick, Ga...thinking that i might someday want to return to the US..but it gets more and more difficult to imagine. The USA becomes a more and more frightening place every day..my fear is not the terrorists outside of the USA, but those within that presently control the terrifying direction the US is taking within and outside of the country.

[lebkuchen]

50. Bien dicho! Bienvenido!

I heard on base a couple of days ago that R & R has been called off, at least for some units in Iraq. Don't know yet if it's a blanket order or not.

Military doctors who had scheduled surgeries in Germany this week have been suddenly deployed to Iraq. Some reservists who had just arrived to Germany, thinking they'd be here for 6 months, are deploying to Iraq for their tour. They had no idea they'd ever be in Iraq.

Make sure you are registered to vote absentee, make sure everyone in your family is, and spread the news! I wish you and your son a safe and happy future. Kerry will help, immensely.

Buena suerte.

http://www.tellanamericantovote.com/eng_index.php

[murray hill farm]

52. Thanks, Lebkuchen..for the kind wishes.

Yes..a John Kerry win will help immensely!! We are working with Democrats Abroad here in Mexico to help make that happen. My husband and i will be in the USA to vote in November...and , of course, to celebrate the Kerry victory.

[The Stranger]

53. THE PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY!

Hard at work with your tax dollars!

[ItsMyParty]

56. Isn't this going to lose votes for Bush on TWO FRONTS???

1) military and their spouses and extended families (parents, etc) as these people figure out what is going on (and from some of the posts above, obviously they already have.) And the military is one of those "bases" he is counting on (oh well, I guess votes can be altered between GI Joe voting and getting the vote counted)! 2) a lot of people are automatically going to think "Iran" or a deepening mess in Iraq. That right there is a big drop in his support. It might thrill his right wingers but they are only about 33% of the population. In other words this whole thing is not something that brings people to their feet cheering and saying "what a great leader"'; it's the kind of stuff that flushes a campaign. I know they do not intend to lose---what are these unholy bastards up to????

[Swamp Rat]

61. Kick