A Democratic drive to oust McGreevey

[malachi]

The push is being fueled by party leaders who want U.S. Sen. Jon S. Corzine to run in a special election.
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/9420384.htm

Other than the fact that some Dems would lose their jobs if a repug wins a special election, does it really matter if the gov is a Dem or a repug? Isn't control of the Senate more omportant?

[joeybee12]

1. Always amazes me how stupid the Dumbocrat leadership is!

Let McGreeevey stay in. This is Monica all over again!

[Frodo]

6. No it isn't.

No crime (beyond the charge of lying under oath) was commited in the Monica situation.

There's evidence of (at least) serous corruption in the McGreevy case.

[joeybee12]

9. No there isn't.............

....right now it's just hearsay. What it will eventually come down to is consensual sex that the Repukes are trying to make out to be much more. If McGreevey resigns now, the Repuke smear campaign has won.

[Frodo]

10. It isn't "hearsay"

He is either telling the truth or lying.

If he's lying, then he's guilty of sexual harassment and bribery to cover it up (unlikely).

If he's telling the truth? Then he gave his "mistress" a government job at high pay which he was not qualified for (as well as a number of private sector jobs). Keep in mind what that job was. The governor has a responsibility to protect the people of NJ (this is shortly after 9/11 which many NJ voters SAW live right across the river) and he gives the job to his lover?!?!? There is no way this boils down to "just consensual sex".


There is no possible interpretation that puts this anywhere near as low on the "severity" poll as Clinton was.

[Fovea]

2. That is cosmically stupid

and not in our best interest in any way. Have them suggest a State Senator, if they need to, but do not dick with the Senate that we migh jst win back in Nov.

[WI_DEM]

7. if Corzine wins the dems will select his replacement in the senate

if he loses he will still be in the senate, so it doesn't matter.

[WI_DEM]

3. if Corzine states that he would run in a special election

in November, then I say let McGreevey resign now. Afterall, his succesor in the Senate will be chosen by a democratic governor if he wins and if he doesn't win he'll still be in the senate.

[Frodo]

4. Yes and no (and maybe).

I doubt control of the Senate is at risk. Corzine wouldn't have to quit his day job until/unless he won. And his main function (as I understand it) for the Democratic national Campaign for the Senate was as in fundraising - which whould be about done now.

As for the Senate being "more important"? I'm not sure I agree. We don't hold enough of the large governorships these days, and this really is where you draw your successful Presidential candidates from in the future. In general, while the position doesn't impact those of us who live away from NJ, it IS a position well senior to a single Senate seat. This may increase our chances of holding BOTH seats over the state Senate leader running as an incumbent Governor next year.

[Kierkegaard]

5. It would make more sense

to let the Repukes fight about McGreevey and waste their time for a lost cause and for OUR SIDE to focus their tiny little attention spans on getting Kerry elected, and picking up senate seats in other places.

[skypilot]

8. This bugs the shit out of me.

You'd think the Democrats would take at least one page from the Repub playbook and close ranks and stick together. They'll probably end up doing the Republicans' work for them over this McGreevey situation.

[Dogmudgeon]

11. It's smart politics, IMO

McGreevey is hated among most New Jerseyans, and Democrats are among their numbers. And, the NJ GOP has been alleging crimes, high crimes, and misdemeanors since McG's public swan song and coming-out last week.

By highlighting a Democratic drive to oust a man they themselves don't much like, the have just taken all the wind out of the GOP's sails.

McGreevey's driving ambition did him in, and the practice of living a lie about his sexuality probably strained his ability to "fake it". I feel bad for the guy, but he brought a lot of this on himself. He's also done a lot of good for New Jersey, and I hope he can get himself together and return to make some unambiguously positive contributions to the state and the nation.

--bkl

[rocktivity]

12. Why would Corzine want to demote himself that way?

The political heat on McGreevey was turned up yesterday when key labor leaders began calling on him privately to resign before Sept. 3.
Who are these labor leaders? Why are they concealing their names? If they think this is so imporant, why are they doing this "in private?"

...Corzine...was coming under competing pressure from party leaders in Washington to remain as head of the Democratic national campaign to gain control of the U.S Senate.
Well, duh.

But Democratic leaders, fearing that McGreevey's continued presence could cause untold damage to the party...
As opposed to a Republican governor, you mean?

The drive to force his early departure was being led principally by key party figures that included U.S. Rep. Robert E. Menendez of Hudson County; former State Sen. John A. Lynch Jr. of Middlesex County; South Jersey Democratic power George E. Norcross 3d of Camden County; and Joseph A. Ferriero, the Democratic chairman in Bergen County.
Finally, some names are named--only one of one who which actually holds a political office. Well, don't let your personal ambitions get in the way of what's best for the party in the long run, gentlemen. McGreevey should stay until November if only because it's the simplest way to keep the governorship out of the reach of the GOP. THEN they can go at each other's throats, LOL!

These "leaders" should have nailed McGreevey on the boy-toy issue a year and half ago when it happened. And now that McGreevey has been essentially been cleared of the sexual harassment charges and was extorted under false pretenses, the public is actually starting to feel a little sympathy towards him. A Survey USA poll says that 24% think he should resign as he's planned, and that 30% say he shouldn't resign at all. Not surprisingly, nobody's factoring in what the voters think.

You're doing the right thing, McGreevey--stay the course!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Frodo]

13. Demote? Governor is a significant PROMOTION over Senator

Especially for a state as large and influential as New Jersey. It's one of a handful of the highest executive positions in the nation.


BTW - holding the election next year is NOT necessarily the best way to keep the seat. The candidate might not even be Corzine at that point.

And WHEN?HOW was McGreevy "cleared of the sexual harassment charges"???

"A Survey USA poll says that 24% think he should resign as he's planned, and that 30% say he shouldn't resign at all."

That would leave 46% (the significant plurality) saying "we want you gone NOW"??

[rocktivity]

15. The survey said 44% think he should go now. 24 + 30 equals 54.

And I did say "essentially" cleared of the sexual harassement charges. Cipel's story of leaving his post after six months due to McGreevey's advances, but allowing McGreevey to get him other jobs, certainly leaves room for reasonable doubt. And have you seen the stories about him being an undercover Mossad agent?

It's possible that McGreevey refused to pay Cipel because it would be an admission of guilt. But it's equally possible that he refused to pay because he knew there had been no harassment!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Frodo]

17. Gee, that sounds a lot like the Clarence Thomas defense

Wasn't it the claim the Anita Hill followed him to other positions? Took other jobs working for him? And reasonable doubt a couple days after the charges have been made (and LONG before we know everything) is hardly "essentially cleared of wrongdoing".

"It's possible that McGreevey refused to pay Cipel because it would look like an admission of guilt"

Except that he DID "pay" him, didn't he? And as you imply, I take it as an admit ion of guilt.

But you ignore the other possibility. If McGreevy is telling the TRUTH eh still has a lot to answer for. Picking a homeland security guru who is completely unqualified for the position (couldn't even get a security clearance), is BAD. Doing it because you want a cushy job for your lover is WORSE. Couldn't he find a "executive dog catcher" role where public safety was not compromised???

And you can't add the 24% to the 30% to get a majority! That was 24% saying he should resign. Just that November was soon enough. You've got 2/3 in NJ (hardly a conservative state) saying they want him gone, just disagreeing about whether he should be run out on a rail or be given time to pack. You can't lump them in with one in three who say "what's the big deal"??

[jmcgowanjm]

14. Rove outed McGreevey

(August 14, 2004) “What did I tell you? The Democrats
were outing Republican gays and threatening to go after
gay members of Congress, both House and Senate.
They started doing this, a lower level first with the
understanding they would “move right up the ladder,” until
they got into Bush’s top echelon of advisors. Rove, a nasty
and vicious true Christian activist, then decided to show up
the Democrats and his people set up and nailed the
Democratic Governor of New Jersey. This was to be
a two-pronged attack: First, humiliate the Governor and force
him to either resign or pay off the Rove people (have to make
it somewhere, buddy) and second, if he would not
be blackmailed, to force him out before the November
elections and rig an election so that the Republicans could
have another state house. I said this would be very ugly before
it was over. Rove himself is not gay but he has other
personal habits that are probably much worse. Look for
the Demos to nail Rove and remove him from Bush’s
side.”

http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a1049.htm

[rocktivity]

16. And Rove OUTSOURCED the job, too!

Your post lends credence to the rumor that Cipel is an undercover Mossad agent--what a perfect setup! By getting some of his Israeli friends to out McGreevey and force a special election, Rove keeps his hands clean. And if they get caught, anyone who asks why Israel is spying/running stings on Americans gets shouted down as an anti-Semite! If only McGreevey hadn't thrown in a monkey wrench by not resigning immediately, LOL!

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[Frodo]

18. D@mn that Rove! He's even planting people in Israel now!

< /sarcasm>
The Governor was in negotiations with hs accuser the DAY OF the announcement.

And I'd like an explanation of this: "Rove himself is not gay but he has other personal habits that are probably much worse."

???

So how bad IS being gay in your mind???

[jmcgowanjm]

31. You don't know me Frodo

And if you want to talk about Gay issues,
then let's go. start posting.

[Rose Siding]

19. Just FYI about that site

They may have some credible opinions and slant but I'd take them with a grain of salt.

Its links page, entries *all* go to sites selling Third Reich fan paraphanalia and literature.

TBR link page
http://tbrnews.org/links.htm

first link brings up:
World War II Books & Videos
Where the war will go on forever! , offering:

-Ulric of England -- Best Third Reich (German Military History) website available, easy to navigate and with an interesting selection of artifacts that is changed regularly.

-Achtung Panzer! -- This website is dedicated to the history of tanks and people of the Panzertruppe during WWII.

-SS Officer Computer Research -- A research service for the WWII author, collector or historian. Do you have a helmet, dagger or uniform with an SS number or name in it? This researcher may be able to help you.

the second links first 2 entries:

-German Cross in Gold Volumn I
-Postcards of Hitler's Germany Volumn II

[jmcgowanjm]

32. FYI I stand by what I post

I link the source because that's what DU
Mods want.

Question what I post. I haven't got resources
to track the rest of TBR's opinions.

[Classical_Liberal]

21. Why insult Christians by calling Rove(aka mammon worshipper) a

"true christian"

[jmcgowanjm]

33. "a nasty and vicious true Christian activist"-is the quote

And I'm telling you right now that
if you don't think that Fundies and Likudniks
aren't wielding inordinate power
in the WH, of course w/
the Oligarchs( the top .01 of .1 of the wealthiest
people) calling the real shots, then you haven't been paying attention since 12122000.

[Demoiselle]

20. With all due respect...this is NUTS!!!!

McGreevey only has to hold on and keep his head down for 17 more days and then he can resign and give the job over to the Pres of the Jersey Senate, because then it will be too late for a special election.
Those are the rules in New Jersey. WHY do local Democrats want to roil this thing up at this point? WHY are they in such a rush? We NEED Corzine in the Senate right now! Do Jersey Dems have fresh compelling polling data that proves Kerry will lose the state if McGreevey hangs on for 17 more days?
Will we ever stop shooting ourselves in the foot? With Bazookas, no less?

[rocktivity]

22. Want to organize a pro-McGreevey rally, Demoiselle?

We could march outside the state capitol building chanting "Seventeen more days! Stay the course, McGreevey!"

They weren't smart enough to do anything about Cipel being on the payroll a year and half ago. Why should we expect them to be smart enough to realize that keeping the governorship away from the GOP should be their first priority? They have the next year or so to fight over who the next Dem candidate should be!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Demoiselle]

23. Um...er..No!

I agree with you that the whole thing absolutely reeks and Gov McG needs to get gone. Please don't read my remarks as any real sympathy for McGreevey. An Israeli national on the state payroll...as a security expert...brilliant. I wonder how we all would have reacted to the news if Cibel were a woman? Truth is, at this point I don't care who's the governor in Jersey. But I do want to see the Dems take back the White House and the Senate...and a special election is just..well...inconveeeeenient, as the Church Lady used to say. I supposed this makes me politically immoral. Well, fine.

[TheRovingGourmet]

24. IF he did what he is accused of doing then he should go

voluntarily now. Keeping him in office because it is convenient is a loser in the long run. Think Torricelli (sp?)

[TexasBushwhacker]

26. It's inconvenient and EXPENSIVE!

If we're only talking 17 days, then just let the regular chain of command do it's thing and have a real election next round. It costs the state millions of dollars to hold a special election now.

[rocktivity]

27. Ding Ding Ding! TexasBushwhacker, you're our grand prize winner!

With the key word being "real." Let's keep the focus on getting Kerry in. After that, the NJ Dems can fight all they want about who the best candidate is!

:headbang:
rocknation

[TheRovingGourmet]

29. If it is only for that short of period of time can't he just be

tossed out now and have someone fill in for him until the election?

[Frodo]

30. That's what will happen either way.

The Senate President will "fill in" until an election can be held (either this November or next).

The real debate is WHO the Democratic nominee for the seat will be and how/whether it impacts the Presidential election at all. If the election is THIS year then Corzine is the likely candidate (and probably winner). If it's NEXT year then there may be a fight between Corzine and the man who will have held the post for over a year.

[Frodo]

25. Local politics can be ugly.

And even the gubernatorial seat can be "local" in these cases.

The difference is that Corzine would LIKE to be Governor... but just maybe the President of the NJ Senate does TOO. And he'll be the incumbent next year if McGreevy holds on.

[jmcgowanjm]

34. you're right, Demoiselle. Someone's muddying the water, here

[KamaAina]

28. Does it really matter if the gov is a Dem or a repug?

It certainly does to all the poor and working-class people in NJ who would take it on the chin from a repuke Gov.

It does to pretty much anyone who relies on social services in NJ, because all the department heads would be replaced by repuke sock puppets whose interest is in cutting budgets, not supporting people in need. (This is pretty much what's happening right now in Ahh-nuld's Collie-four-knee-ya.)

It sure as hell does if there's a vacancy in the Senate during this term of office (it wouldn't be Corzine, who's not up for re-election until 2006 -- but Lautenberg is 80...)

Ultimately, it matters if the dogcatcher in Salina, Kan. is a repuke -- even if the Dem candidate is allergic! -- because it just builds their stable of fresh repuke candidates, and it gets people used to the nasty, vile habit of pulling an (R) lever.