DEM ADS MISSING THE MARK, STUDY SAYS

[VaLabor]

DEM ADS MISSING THE MARK, STUDY SAYS August 23, 2004 -- Democrat John Kerry's first TV ad defending himself against attacks from fellow Vietnam vets wasn't very effective, an independent nonpartisan advertising study has found.
But it also found that a second TV ad by the anti-Kerry veterans — which blasts him for portraying fellow Vietnam vets as war criminals — wasn't as effective in zapping Kerry as the first ad, which challenges his image as a war hero.

Kerry's first defense ad features a testimonial from Jim Rassman, the soldier rescued by Kerry when he fell overboard — but it had no impact among independent voters who say they lean pro-Kerry, the study by HCD Research and Muhlenberg College Institute of Politics found.

SNIP

The second anti-Kerry ad — attacking his anti-war remarks — had no net impact on pro-Kerry voters who'd already seen the first ad.

"It didn't do any further damage. People are getting immune to it now," was professor Kover's assessment.


MORE: http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/29303.htm

[murielm99]

1. Consider the source.

[CaTeacher]

4. I am thinking that

voters may be sick and tired of the whole Swift Boat thing--which is good for us--because I would rather move on to more current issues.

I do worry it may have done some damage though. Hopefully we can overcome that.

[JI7]

6. yup, isn't Gephardt the vp ?

[Born Free]

14. When in doubt, vote "D"

If you are not sure, vote "D" , if you know the candidate well enough to make a better decidionm then by all means do it. Let's face it, some democrats are not a good choice.

[SoCalDem]

2. DUH.... "YOU STINK..YOU DIRTY LIAR"

is a much more "effective ad"...than

"No I don't and here is why "

The guy with the lit dynamite always gets more attention than the bomb squad ..

[alittlelark]

3. The NY POST

hello.... did you know that they are a daily 'National Enquirer'? They are debunked so often, they could be the nerdy guy at your last camp.


PLEASE!!!!

[neonplaque]

5. Polish the MCCAIN clip and get it on TV...

that's the money shot to discredit these attack ads.

[GingerSnaps]

29. I agree with you

It needs to hit the airwaves right now!

[DavidFL]

7. There's that name HCD Research again...

I got an invitation to participate in one of their surveys on the presidential election in my e-mail and I'm guessing it was probably this one. Did anyone else? I had never heard of HCD Research before, and never gave my e-mail address to them, and got a little suspicious when they were asking for my full name, home address and telephone number. I don't like giving out personal information like that to a company I never heard of, or don't frequently patronize, so I didn't fill out the form to take the survey. But I did a little Googling and found they were a subsidiary of a company called Health Care Direct, Inc., which is based in New Jersey, and HCD Research is basically a polling company for the pharmaceutical industry. Strange they would be asking for people's reaction to the SBVT ads.

[DemMother]

12. Just noticed your post after I wrote mine (below).

HCD and Muhlenberg College seem to be a pretty odd couple--also makes you suspicious when you see their findings quoted in the Free Republic.

[demoman123]

8. This has a very simple point.

It says, "Kerry's first defense ad features a testimonial from Jim Rassman, the soldier rescued by Kerry when he fell overboard — but it had no impact among independent voters who say they lean pro-Kerry."

That means that pro-Kerry people ALREADY discount the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads, and are therefore not affected by a Kerry ad urging them to discount them.

[lolly]

27. Good Point

NONE of Kerry's ads have had any effect on me--because I'd already planned to vote for him before the ads came out.

[GOPAgainstGW]

9. NY Post - Rightttttttttttttt!

Yeah right, like I am going to believe anything the Post publishes. ROFLOL.

[truthisfreedom]

10. it's time to kick thug ass. i don't care how rough Kerry gets... it's

time to out bush for the miserable lying, corrupt bully he is. it's time to take the gloves off, guys.

[nolabels]

17. I would leave the gloves on, you might get cooties

http://zhongwen.com/bush/

Before the war...
August 19, 2004
(snip)
The patriotic bullying that went on in this country over Iraq should not be forgotten. It is brilliantly described and dissected in Chris Hedges' important little book, "War Is a Force That Gives Life Meaning." In one of the great ironies of the Iraq War, Hedges himself became the victim of the very group-think he had analyzed after starting a speech with the observation, "War in the end is always about betrayal; betrayal of the young by the old, soldiers by politicians, and idealists by cynics." He was booed off the stage.

Wretched excess always accompanies war fever -- in World War I, "patriots" used to go around kicking dachshunds on the grounds that they were "German dogs." As I have noted elsewhere, people like that do not go around kicking German shepherds.

Some of that bullying, swaggering tone remains with us, in our politics. To treat with contempt any effort at "nuance" or "sensitivity" -- in one of the most fraught and sensitive situations we've ever been in -- is just ugly know-nothingism. As Republicans used to say to Democrats abut the election debacle in Florida last time, "Get over it."
(snip)
http://www.freepress.org/column

[DemMother]

11. Maybe this is a valid study, but it was done by an evangelical Lutheran

College (Muhlenberg College) partnered with HCD Research, a firm that has conducted hundreds of surveys for some of the world's leading pharmaceutical companies.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2004_April_6/ai_114984590

Another mention I found of this crack team took me straight to Free Republic where there was a discussion of the HCD/College research into independents' reactions to the Scum Boat Liars' ads. And they found, of course, that independents were affected. Could this be the survey that the media is touting!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1191500/posts

Oh my god, it seems that anyone and everyone are doing surveys and focus groups--some of them reliable. Maybe this group is too, but I wouldn't give a hell of a lot of credence to pharmaceutical drug surveying business that has teamed with an evangelical Lutheran College.

Could the press sift out some of this dreck! Please! Could the lazy, upper class, Hampton dwelling, giggling, giddy cheerleader press act like reporters!! They can't even get the Philly cheesesteak stories right.

[Swamp Rat]

13. More poo poo from the Poo Poo Post

:hurts:

[unblock]

15. the purpose of a defensive ad is NOT to be "effective"

in the sense that kerry's ad was never intended as a vote gatherer or popularity raiser.

the purpose of kerry's ad was to render the anti-kerry ads ineffective.

and the article shows that kerry's ad accomplished this goal.

[Teaser]

18. Thank you...

and shouldn't you change your avatar? :)

[moondust]

16. Is anybody studying the effect of the Bush* ads?

You know, the first QUARTER OF A BILLION DOLLARS' WORTH?

[yellowcanine]

19. "no impact among independent voters who say they lean pro-Kerry"

So...they were pro-Kerry before the ad and they are still pro-Kerry?" This is news? And a dog bit a man today also!

[chimpy the poopthrower]

20. That's exactly what I was going to post.

Wouldn't it make more sense to state whether the ad had any effect on voters who were not already leaning toward Kerry? Were those voters not researched or did the NY Post simply decide not to report those results?

[SidDithers]

21. Are you purposefully looking for bad news from dubious sources?

Just wondering. You've got 3 posts on the front page of LBN, with no or little follow up to the original post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x770198
About Bush and Kerry dead heat in Nevada

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x770181
Bush with nationwide lead over Kerry

and now this one.

As i said, just wondering. :shrug:

Sid

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Independent Voters Leaning To Kerry?

Of course the ad won't affect people who were thinking of voting for him anyway. They don't need to be swayed. So, this study is obviously conducted by a group of people as dumb as a bag of hammers.
The Professor

[henslee]

23. why linke to murdoch?????

[progressivebydesign]

24. WTF is wrong with Americans???

I'm sorry.. but the words of the MAN KERRY SAVED aren't good enough?? What do you want? Paris Hilton having sex with the guy on a grainy video.. while yelling the true account of the rescue????

[Doosh]

25. oh it's the post, I wonder what Vice President Gephardt thinks about this

[wurzel]

26. IT"S THE MEDIA STUPID!

If the media had treated the "Swiftie liars" ad in the same way they treat MoveOn ads we would never have heard of it.

[DarbyUSMC]

28. If I were writing the copy, I would go opposite of everything Bush is

doing in his ads. (Remember Opposite George?) First Kerry might state that from this day, he will not be questioning his opponent over his service to our country; he won't be using clips that are out of context and he won't stoop to his level regarding mistakes he's made in the last three years and not acknowledged or apologized for. How can you apologize for all of the casualties and life long disabilities that have come from this trumped up war in Iraq? He will concentrate on the things he wants to accomplish when elected and how he wants to go about it. He can't promise, because without congress there is very little he can guarantee. If he spends his time answering accusations it is just wasting what time he has left before the election. *'s criticism of Kerry's voting record in the Senate, for example, doesn't include why he voted "no" or where he was when not in congress to vote or anything else. It isn't supposed to, otherwise it would be counterproductive for the * campaign. This whole campaign is an imitation of a school yard fight and he could state that he, for one, is leaving the school yard. We have life and death issues to deal with regarding our citizens. We need to take care of our own backyard before trying to fix everyone else's conundrums.

[EST]

30. Are we having a troll invasion?

This stupid story was freep posted on 8/14- posted to them on 8/13. This crap is at least ten days old-the freeper links are broken. Why is this NYP garbage on LBN?