Veterans defend Kerry, criticize Dole

[POed_Ex_Repub]

BOSTON, United States (AFP) - Vietnam war veterans defended Democratic White House hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites) from charges he lied to get his medals and scolded prominent Republican Bob Dole for joining the critics.

Dole fiercely attacked Kerry on CNN television Sunday, saying the Democratic senator from Massachusetts had won "three Purple Hearts and never bled that I know of. I mean, they're all superficial wounds."

more...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=15&u=/afp/20040823/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_kerry_veterans_040823190007

Don't forget to rate this story a "5"

[Tight_rope]

1. Done!

[movonne]

2. Done.

[The Icon Painter]

3. Done

Rating now - 3.67. We can do better!

[WindRavenX]

4. superficial wounds....

Right...it hurt him, but it apparently didn't hurt him enough :wtf:
Piss off Dole!

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcuno]

9. John McCain wanted CFR because of what was done to him in SC.

All * has to do is say, "I denounce the ad." But he won't because he is a coward who prefers to hide behind the skirts of others; no different than his support for the war in Vietnam and his refusal to go.

[Ilsa]

23. That's the line I've been taking also:

He supported the war in Vietnam, but not enough to go. Like in 2000, he's sending his henchmen to do his dirty work because he was a coward then and a coward now.

[alcuno]

28. The textbook definition of a "chickenhawk."

One who advocates war and sends others into battle while safely under the covers.

[Leilani]

43. McCain was for CFR long before SC

It was the main topic of his campaign. He talked about it before New Hampshire...said big money & special interests had taken over the govt.

[krkaufman]

20. I've got no problem with 527s...

... I've got a problem with blatantly lying to smear a candidate.

Attack ads are perfectly reasonable, so long as they are factual.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Couldn't agree more.

All they need to add to the CFR law is "truth in advertising." Same for all political ads. Now I wonder why political ads are exempt from TIA? :freak:

[Rose Siding]

26. That's Bush all over- laden with foresight. WTF!

MoveOn is an established political action group. Slime-boaters is a front for slander, designed for no other purpose than to cast doubt about one man. There is no comparison between the two.

What ever happened to the concept of "spirit of the law"?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rose Siding]

37. So you equate MoveOn PAC with SBV?

One of us is definitely pretending with an argument like that.

Tell me about how "we" did the same to him with TANG? What was the name of MoveOn's book? Which cable shows covered the unwarranted "smear" of Bush and who were the MoveOn spokespersons that flooded the air? Do you have links to the TV ads by people who said they were there but actually were relying on what others had told them?

Bush himself wrote that he flew for "the next several years". He didn't. He couldn't. He missed his physical. The only photo of him with medals is missing the one TANG gives for just showing up.

So I'm having a hard time coming up with the equivalence of the two organizations. Perhaps you can more clearly articulate the parallels.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal Gramma]

49. I see a lot of differences

MoveOn has dealt with dissatisfactions with Bush as president, it hasn't brought up questionable issues from his past (and there are MANY.) Perry, funder of SBV, is a friend of Karl Rove and the Bush family. Soros became a funder of MoveOn when he began to become disenchanted with what Bush policies were doing to America.
Kerry in Cambodia or not in 1968--who cares? He was in the Navy, fighting for the US wherever he was. Bush in Alabama, taking or not taking his physical? A stronger issue: he was either AWOL or not. He was either coked out or not. He was NOT fighting for his country.

Then, as a final test, let's re-examine which group has a history of sliming the opponent. Let's ask John McCain and Max Cleland who maligned them: MoveOn or The Bush Family Slime Machine.

[jdj]

53. look here, buddy

Move On was around for a long time before George Soros entered the picture, and it is funded by working class stiffs like me.

Soros contibuted long after Move On grew legs and started walking.

Either you are ignorant or you are just using DU to spread lies. You need to either educate yourself about, (or cop to knowledge about) Scaife before you whine about Soros.

Scaife has been bankrolling the dregs of the republican party for decades. Conservatives can't even sell books in this country without some of their robber barons buying them up by the hundreds of thousands and giving them away for 2 cents in some repuke book club.

[markses]

41. Actually

The Smear Boat Scumbags have been debunked at every turn by independent parties of all description. Point to a MoveOn ad that makes factual claims that have been debunked by anybody at all. Then you'll have your imagined parity.

[Hamlette]

54. Come on! Undeniable proof?

Stop. There is tons of direct and circumstantial evidence the Swift Boat group is lying. There is TONS of circumstantial evidence MoveOn is telling the truth about Bush's record of service. There is NO direct evidence Bush was not AWOL.

Nixon wanted to get Kerry so bad in 1971 he had his record in Vietnam gone over with a fine tooth comb. Kerry's record was clean. You expect any thinking person to believe that 33 years later the proof is suddenly there? After some of these guys told different stories as recently as a year ago?

Come on.

(Oh, and circumstantial evidence it often the best evidence because it can't lie like O'Niell and his nasty, dishonest political hacks.)

Release all of Bush's records. If he wasn't AWOL he'd have released them by now.

Got WMD?

[jdj]

59. Good point about Nixon.

And the main difference between then and now is that then journalism was an honorable profession, and now it is just prostitution with your clothes on.

[jdj]

51. which disallows a connection between the candidate and outside organizati

That connection has already been established. Therein lies the violation.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Rated 5, emailed to my neighbor

who is a Viet Nam Vet who is very very pro Kerry.

[tabasco]

7. Dole is simply scum.

He has sunk to the bottom with the rest of the bottom-feeders. I had thought he had a modicum of ethics, but not anymore. He is the enemy and unworthy of respect.

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

24. Please, your giving Scum a bad name

please apologise to all the pond and other scum out there, and promise to not tarnish the good scum name by associating it with Bob Dole.

[joefree1]

8. Done

You have given the news article Veterans defend Kerry, criticize Dole a rating of 5.
Its current average rating is 3.38 with 446 vote(s).


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[chelaque liberal]

10. Good companion article

Good companion article. Vets aren't buying it.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/aug04/252665.asp

[Fridays Child]

11. Pen-fisted perky pecker pusher. Dole is a caricature of a real man.

eom

[JoFerret]

21. No. He belongs in a different world

the complexity of Vietnam is beyond him. Kerry is a complex thinker (thankfully). Bush is a non-thinker who adopts simplistic positions. Dole is a throwback to another world (plus a political hack - as this shows.)

[Rebellious Republican]

12. Its current average rating is 3.33 with 569 vote(s). N/T

[skip fox]

13. Please send SBV links. I'm compiling

a SBV-Gate file with the help of DUers as a reference for us all.

Send post with links (or ideas, tips, etc.) as replies to the early form of the file in DU Editorials:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x69031

[TXDemGal]

14. Done! nfm

[fedupinnyc]

15. done!

... still only 3.33 though...

[gatlingforme]

16. How does Dole know ? If Kerry had a leg blown off Dole would

have said the leg was never attached to Kerry to begin with. Dole is a joke. he should go back to selling viagra.

[acmavm]

17. 6:41 p.m. CST 3.34 with 647 votes.

.

[ahimsa]

30. 830 votes, 3.33 rating

Does anyone at DU actually vote down stories? It seems we are always trying to vote them up (more visible) while freepers are voting them down (less visible).. :eyes:

[wishlist]

18. ABC news said Kerry called Dole and told him he did bleed from wounds

The Dole remarks made front page news this morning in some papers. (Meanwhile, no mention of the close connections between Bush campaign and the Swiftliars.) However ABC news tonight did say that Kerry had called Dole today to set him straight and make it clear that Dole was mistaken to say that Kerry had not bled from his war wounds.

This stuff is getting so infuriating.

[puerco-bellies]

19. Kick n/t

[BadGimp]

22. The Rightwingers on the Yahoo board are spittin sparks

They are apoplectic. They seriously can't see the damage this is doing tothe GOP.

amazing...but God Bless Em

Kerry wins on this one folks...Bush looks like a fraud.

[are_we_united_yet]

34. What do you mean looks like?

:)

[jdj]

58. Bush a fraud??

Say it ain't so.

I think there is movement, actually, because my mother has been getting Bush slurping spam for years and the latest one that came said "Bush ain't perfect...but" (it was a pro-life screed).

It doesn't sound major, but "bush ain't perfect????"

That is the worst thing I've ever heard them say about him.

[schultzee]

27. Done. I would like to write a letter to Dole. Address?

[BrooklynRider]

46. Tell him what you think: http://www.bobdole.org/contact.html

[PhuLoi]

48. My email to Bob

Mr. Dole,
I am a Viet Nam veteran. I was an E-5 in the U.S. Army stationed at Phuloi, 1969-70. I am writing to you to express my extreme disappointment in your recent statements re Senator Kerry's war wounds. As a fellow former soldier I cannot imagine a lower, more dispicable, cowardly act than the one you have committed. Perhaps a closer look needs be taken at the decisions and subsequent actions taken by you that resulted in your being wounded. Did you not listen to advice given by your senior NCO? Were you influenced by your desire for medals and fame to be displayed at your future bids for political office? Did good men die needlessly because of your personal greed, ego and incompetance?
Your behavior disgraces all American soldiers, living and dead. You have turned your back on us to support a cowardly deserter and by doing so have become one yourself.

[Dhalgren]

29. The thing is that the Swift Boat Veterans (sic)

are not calling Kerry a liar, they are saying that the official records lie. Kerry's story is simply a telling of the official record. So when the Swift Boat Veterans (sic) say it is a lie, they are saying that about the official record. If the official record of valor in combat can be falsified for a Lt.jg, then it can be for anyone. We aren't talking about some bird colonel riding a desk and cooking up some citations for his vita, we are talking about a forward deployed Lt.jg in the thick of combat and the records get cooked for him? Audy Murphy? Nah, never happened. He just capture an octogenarian cook and a worn-out prostetute who had gotten their volkswagon stuck in a ditch, that's all. The rest was just written up by Murphy to make himself look good. McCain? He wasn't even a P.O.W. He was holed-up in a Bangkok whorehouse all those years, hooked on skag and just staggared out at the right time. The rest he just wrote up himself to make himself look good.


If the official record cannot be trusted, then no one's metals mean shit!

[Voltaire99]

39. Nice riff on McCain!

McCain? He wasn't even a P.O.W. He was holed-up in a Bangkok whorehouse all those years, hooked on skag and just staggared out at the right time. The rest he just wrote up himself to make himself look good.

LOL! I rather enjoy that image of the fanatical McCain. Thank you.

As for the veracity of medals, well, I could hardly care less. US genocide in Vietnam is to be rued and regretted; those who flaunt their participation in such an atrocious war forfeit my regard.

[Dhalgren]

44. You know, outside the context of this particular election,

I agree with you. IMO the Vietnam War is in the same catagory as the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American war, and all of the "little" slaughter houses we have set up all over the Caribbean and Central and South America (not to mention the extermination of the Native Americans). American soldiers have more often than not been simply hit men for the corporations and the wealthy in general. America has always seemed to be at war with the poorest people on the planet and things have not changed. But Bush is the worst example of this trend and must be gotten rid of. So, in the context of this particular election, when the electorate is so militarized, it is important to show that the less dangerous candidate is, as well, a "real" warrior with big metal balls.

[jdj]

50. Breaking News!! Viagra shown to cause brain damage.

Reducing circulation to the brain for hours at a time impairs brain function.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

31. The pathetic swansong of a limp-d, washed up Repuke muckraker

Dole just moved down a level of Hell with this latest return to his old muckraking ways...

JB

[Skittles]

32. I've lost any shred of respect I had for Dole

I know consider him a rightwing nutjob piece of shit just like his friends

[jdj]

55. Me too.

I hope to hell he never shows his face on the Daily Show again.

[are_we_united_yet]

33. Dole

Did he run for President?

/cheap_shot

[Dancing_Dave]

35. All this concentration Vietnam can only be a disaster for Democrats

:puke:

This is not at all an issue we need to be concentrating on. If this dominates campaign discussions much longer, 2004 could be a huge disaster for Democrats.

[Guaranteed]

42. I don't think you've really analyzed Kerry's approach

to this campaign.

Contrast Kerry and Dean, where their weak points were/are, where their strong points were/are....You'll see why Kerry actually really loves talking about Vietnam. He welcomes this. This is his turf.

Character politics is Kerry's turf. That's why he was nominated.

[jdj]

56. okay, let me pick myself up off the floor (ROTFLMAO)

Why would it be a disaster for the party of the people who actually served rather than the party of the POS that used poppys connections to get into TANG to get out of going, then went AWOL, then deserted...

Strange strange logic.

[Kinkistyle]

38. Apparently Kerry is a robot!

Kerry got shrapnel propelled into his thigh (so deep its still there), and didn't bleed. The reason of course is that Kerry is a cybernetically engineered android. :eyes:

[jdj]

57. And if he were a republican, he'd be governor of Ca-lee-for-nee-uh

They love testosterone laden fairy tails and playing dress up in military costumes.

[Cookie wookie]

40. The Repubs are using this

to get rid of 527s. And because of the total media bias for bush, with few small exceptions on tv, radio and print media, we the people created the 527s like MoveOn so we could have a voice for truth and sanity. We weren't being heard by Washington, we weren't being heard in the bloody corporate media, so we created our own tool to get the word out, pooled our money, intellectual, and social resources and have managed to slug it out (remember all those times MoveOn couldn't even get paid ads in publications? So what if the slowboat liars are using the system. We've known all along that the repulsicans would do anything and everything to defeat Kerry and would stoop to nothing, no lie would be too great, no breach of ethics to wide, no crime too evil. Well, that's all they are doing and we have to shout back that they are NOT going to take away our freedom of speech, and getting rid of the ability of orgs like MoveOn to pay for media coverage would stifle our free speech.

To hell with the sb liars!

[Dhalgren]

45. Good point!

You are absolutely right! And welcome to DU!

[young_at_heart]

52. You are so right!

If would be devastating to lose Move On. Why can't the media point out that McCain immediately trashed the disgusting "ad" and Bush has yet to say that it, in particular, was below-the-belt? He lumped it together with others, thereby legitimizing it.

[Barkley]

60. Done!