Marines slash final combat training in half

[Snazzy]

Marines slash final combat training in half
Tuesday, August 24, 2004
BY DAVID WOOD
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE
Under growing pressure to ship Marines to Iraq, the Marine Corps is cutting in half the rigorous field combat training it gives units preparing to deploy, senior officers say.

The Marines hope to make up the time by intensifying this final, pre-deployment training and focusing it on skills needed to survive and prevail in Iraq's brutal combat conditions. This means practicing more nighttime operations, ambushes, city fighting and guarding of convoys.

The exercise, called a CAX in Marine lingo, has been shortened from 23 to 11 days, Col. Blake Crowe, operations officer for the Marine Corps Training Command at Quantico, Va., said in an interview.

This was done, Crowe said, to "get more battalions through" in a shorter period of time. Until now, the Marine Corps trained 10 battalions in CAX every six months. Under the accelerated schedule, it will train eight battalions in two months.

....

http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news-17/1093325900144970.xml

[bluestateguy]

1. Hah?

So wait a minute now, it was Bill Clinton who weakened the military by dumbing down the training standards?

[Kagemusha]

2. The hell?...

I'm speechless...

[Webster Green]

3. Cannon fodder wanted.....

No experience necessary.....

[IndianaGreen]

31. No shit!

There is never enough training, particularly when in a line unit that is about to deploy. Not good!

[neonplaque]

4. Sweet... Less training before going into the Meat Grinder

'Mission Accomplished!'

:wtf: :beer:

[Greenbeard]

5. I doubt military commanders are happy about this

How can the nation continue to support this administration? When will we wake up?

[AnnitaR]

6. WTF?????

This is just sick! Hell, what are they going to do next just send em straight out of basic?

However lets not talk about this damn war... lets rehash Nam to death... all the while this war becomes more and more like Nam everyday.

[bemildred]

7. "nighttime operations, ambushes, city fighting and guarding of convoys" nt

[saigon68]

22. I thought the Mercenaries guarded the convoys?

Then again maybe not ??

[bemildred]

25. I doubt there are enough.

You need a lot to protect the big shots, and the vast
quantities of POL and CLASS V being expended cannot all
be coming in by air, hence there must be lots of convoys.
From time to time I have read of oil being trucked out as well.

You may have large convoys coming in-country with "professional"
protection, and smaller distribution convoys handled by the
receiver of the goods.

If I was a mercenary, the last duty I would want is riding
shotgun on supply convoys in any case. Talk about a sitting
duck.

[stanwyck]

35. My son guards the convoys

he's a Marine with the CSSG: combat service support group. He's either in a helicopter or a humvee. He's looking for insurgents who would attack supply convoys. Fortunately, he received his full combat training in the spring of 2003 at Lejeune, plus additional training, including fast-roping.

[TacticalPeek]

38. Thank him for me, stanwyck.

My son could be in one of those convoys; he works with the Marines there. He's extremely trained, but I feel for the guys coming behind now who will be forced to buck up and make do with less. Shrub is a dangerously incompetent leader, and I take it personal.

[stanwyck]

41. so do I

you said it well. He is incompetent and that makes the world more dangerous for us all, but particularly for our sons. I wish you and your son the best. We'll be thinking of you.

[tlcandie]

8. So, how much shorter will it be by the time June's draft rolls around IF

something goes haywire and Kerry isn't sitting in the WH come November? Seems like they might be heading for THAT end goal, no?


Evidently, what the troops over there know now isn't helping them much? Very sad and strange.
:shrug:

[Career Prole]

10. God forbid! I don't even want to think it!

Should things go that haywire, advanced combat training will become a part of the high school curriculum and tested with bubble tests just like reading and math.
"No Child Left Behind" will become the Marine Corps motto by executive order.
* is a complete and utter miserable failure.

[TacticalPeek]

9. Is there anything left for President Stupid to break?

"I wish we did have more time," said Capt. Dan Snyder, who oversees the teaching of 54 specific combat skills. "It's difficult to do in the time we have."

...

"You have a 70 percent chance of going into combat, a 5 percent chance of getting killed or wounded -- pay attention!" Staff Sgt. Charles Kilgore, a combat instructor, barked at a formation of exhausted Marines in sodden, sweat-stained fatigues and muddy boots.

...

But money is short, and so is time.

Staff Sgt. Don Allen, a combat instructor, said his trainees watch demonstrations of the M203 grenade launcher, the Squad Automatic Weapon and the .50-caliber machine gun, but not everyone gets to actually fire the weapons.

"It's financial," said Allen, a combat engineer who fought in Iraq last year with the 8th Marines. "I wish I had the money for them to shoot actual rounds. When I went through this training in 1995, we all shot every weapon."


:grr:

[UpInArms]

13. wasn't there also something out there recently

about running out of bullets?

But money is short, and so is time.

Staff Sgt. Don Allen, a combat instructor, said his trainees watch demonstrations of the M203 grenade launcher, the Squad Automatic Weapon and the .50-caliber machine gun, but not everyone gets to actually fire the weapons.

"It's financial," said Allen, a combat engineer who fought in Iraq last year with the 8th Marines. "I wish I had the money for them to shoot actual rounds. When I went through this training in 1995, we all shot every weapon."

OMG - this is freakin' unbelievable.

:argh:

[tlcandie]

24. Yes, it was the Abu torture story where they fired on those

outside when they thought chaos was nearing with bullets, unsure of rubber or real because ammunition was in short supply?

EDIT: Therefore, they were arming guns with mixtures of both.

[Jacobin]

15. "money is short"?????????????????????????????????????????

WTF???

No money for ammunition??????????????????????????????????

[tabasco]

21. This is treason.

We're sending Marines into combat that never fired a SAW or a 203??? I suppose the theory of Bush, Rummy, Myers, and all the other traitors is that these guys will get all the training they need on the streets of Baghdad. This outrages displays perfectly how the Bush corporate cabal doesn't give a shit for our troops. :mad:

[midnight armadillo]

23. What on earth do they DO WITH THE MONEY!?!?!?

Half a trillion dollars a year on the fucking military and they don't even bother to buy enough bullets for training? What on earth is done with all that money? Where is it spent?!??

I'll personally pledge to donate $50 to any national politician who dares to mention this before the November election.

[Best_man23]

33. The Marine Corps uses different training schedules

When the Marine Corps prepares to go to a hot spot in the world, they go to a compressed schedule in which they train longer and on each day except Sunday versus an eight hour, five day schedule.

However, to compress 23 days of training into 11 is insane and I'm pretty sure not every Marine leaving the Palms right now is thoroughly trained.

[Fovea]

37. OMG. This sounds like something from

the last parts of 'All Quiet on the Western Front.'
Scarcity, despair, cynicism, everything you need to lose a major war.

[catmandu57]

11. OJT man

that's what it is.

[DemoTex]

12. Body-bags are cheaper.

Besides, those Marines will learn from their OJT in Iraqnam.

[Radius]

14. Clarification

CAX is a "war game" in addition to marine basic training. Units rotate in and out of these exercises on a regular basis, even when they are not assigned for combat.

While it can do no good to cut these exercises they are not cutting basic times like they did in Vietnam.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/cax.htm

[daleo]

19. This sounds like less time to me

"The exercise, called a CAX in Marine lingo, has been shortened from 23 to 11 days, Col. Blake Crowe, operations officer for the Marine Corps Training Command at Quantico, Va., said in an interview."

It seems like this training would be extremely important for people going into a combat zone. So, whether it is basic training or something more advanced, it is still an important reduction in training time and one more sign that Bush's fiasco is coming apart.

[reprobate]

16. This ain't a war. It's a Monty Python skit.

Brings to mind the one about the Scottish suicide divers jumping out of the tower. Our children in iraq now stand just as much chance of survival.

This administration must be tried for treason. They intentionally sent us to war for false reasons, and refuse to admit to any errors.

[Rose Siding]

17. I'm sure they won't skip the classes on the Geneva Conventions

This sounds like a death sentence.

[Ernesto]

18. Welcome back to Vietnam

When I went through in '65, the lengh of boot camp had just been cut by a couple of weeks. In peace time, there is no such thng as "casualty replacemnts". I know cause I was one.

[rocktivity]

20. The soldiers are the one who are going to get slashed in half

Here's hoping there is enough armor.

:headbang:
rocknation

[DavidMS]

26. It looks like there isn't enough training capacity

Which is pure incompedance. Every US Soldier being deployed needs the full training (which probably could be made more complete). I understand its been known for years that there is insuficent urban combat training and that there isn't enough amunition for training. Thats just shocking. I guess Bush realy means when he claims to support the military that he supports the defence concractors.

Small arms amunition isn't a perticulary difficult thing to manufacture or expensive, that Bush can't assure that every soldier going to Iraq or Afganistan recieves proper training.

[tom_paine]

27. The Busheviks are fucking crazy!

That's smart. Shove more bodies in there who will more easily be targetted becuase of their lack of training.

Why do these Busheviks hate America?

[tranche]

28. "focusing it on skills needed to survive"

not good

[progressivebydesign]

29. This needs to go mainstream...

.. hope the big news outlets pick this up. THis is beyond wrong. I wish the Marines could refuse to deploy without the proper training. THEY are the ones that have really been hit so hard... this is unacceptable. But.. if you think about the readiness of the Reserves, and the lack of proper equipment, I suppose this shouldn't shock me.

HOw in the fuck military people could support that jerk, Bush, is beyond me.

[bobbieinok]

30. this sounds absolutely insane...cut training?????

[BrotherBuzz]

32. Hmmm, in appears the Marines are reduced to....

Eating seed corn. That, or this is just a demented version of Rumsfeld's Fungible military. In either event, this is a slippery road to travel.

[struggle4progress]

34. kick kick kick

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Tight_rope]

36. That's right...they don't need to know much about fighting before they die

After all Bush is not sending their to live.

[pfitz59]

39. "Private Pyle..what is your major malfunction?"

"This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for pleasure, this is for fun." OK, off to Iraq with ya!

[truthisfreedom]

40. these guys are being given death sentences. they can see it for themselves

because they're receiving situation-specific training with no general training for the future. they have no futures. they will die in Iraq in ridiculously harsh conditions, and die hated by the people they are being fooled into believing they are helping.

this is very very sad.

[pinniped]

42. On the job training.

n/t