Malaysian rape law provokes storm

[emad]

By Jonathan Kent
BBC correspondent in Kuala Lumpur

Women's groups in Malaysia have reacted angrily after one of the country's most senior Islamic clerics opposed calls for new laws to protect women from rape within marriage. Malaysia's official human rights commission had asked parliament to make marital rape a crime.

However, the chief cleric or mufti of the state of Perak said that such a move is against Islam. The status of women in Islamic law is one of the most fiercely-contested issues in Malaysia.

According to the mufti of Perak, women are subject to their husband's desires. A husband has the right to be intimate with his wife and the wife must obey, he told one local newspaper. If she refuses, the woman is "nusyuz" - disobedient.

"If the wife refuses, then the rule of 'nusyuz' (disobedient) applies and the husband is not required to provide financial assistance to her," said mufti Harussani Zakaria.
More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3592740.stm

Sharia law confuses God with religion. Women bear the brunt.

[sui generis]

1. did anyone see this one in Iran?

Apparently the teenage girl had sex with her boyfriend - he got 100 lashes and she got executed last week.

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=80

Religion in government is utterly and absolutely disgusting.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. It's all over the progressive M.E. press

Just go to the home page of Iran Focus -- three stories about her execution.

--bkl

[autorank]

3. Religious De-Humanists!

OK, so I'm a secular humanist. I've decided this clown and all the other religious nuts have a new title, one fitting this type of trash.

[jdj]

4. I hope there is a special place in hell for these mrfckrs

This is sickening and disgusting.

I don't know why peaceful Islamic men who claim Islam to be "a religion of peace" are not not marching down the streets of every major city in protest at acts like these.

Kind of makes you wonder...

[barb162]

hmmm, because they agree with it?

doesn't make me wonder at all.

[papau]

5. marriage is just a way men pay for sex -so no sex- no financial assistance

Seems the mufti of Perak is simply telling the folks in Malaysia what is the status of women is under his vision - or version - of Islam.

Do you think the cops in the US would let a John go if he explained the money offer was only an offer of "financial assistance"?

:-)

[SemperEadem]

8. that's how that dude in Montana tried to justify his sexual predatory

behavior with most of the women in his town...

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002005745_montana15.html

he didn't see himself as being a john or as breaking the law---he gave out millions of dollars, using his "christian financial' business as a front for luring unsuspecting women in who thought they were getting loans, but instead, they were being hoodwinked into having to have sex with the man--and if the sex wasn't good enough, he would have their property repossessed.

He felt as if he was providing financial assistance to women in need--he didn't feel that what did was harmful.

[Radius]

6. Court room killing in Iran

A man killed his wife in court, stabbed her to death.

Court ordered him to pay restitution to her family, since they were dead he was let go.

Iran's theocracy is horrible, it isn't PC to say but sharia based islam is patriarchal and has no room for gays, or any form of deviation from its rules. Dissent equals death or prision. BTW 100 lashes is a defacto death sentence.

It is up to mainstream Islam to treat these people the way Christian based societies treat people who bomb abortion clinics.

[sui generis]

7. nevertheless, extremism or not

religion has no place in government in the modern world.

I have not problem with people having faith and certainly no problem with diversity, but the entire point of religion in government, benign or otherwise, is to quash diversity. Ancient cultures were unable to develop personal moral arguments without the context of religion, and Islam, Christianity and Judaism all easily confuse law, morality, and the purpose of government with the practice of their respective faiths.

It is utterly medieval to me. Worse, perhaps, I have no problem condemming ANY religion in government, not to be inciteful against Islam, but it is a perfect example of extremism. That judge clearly didn't think he was being an extremist. It would never occur to him to "banish" her from his community. He insisted, by pursuing the matter personally, that she would die for daring to challenge his tradition of absurdity. I'm not pc at all. I despise all of it.

[Radius]

10. Agree

I agree completley. Religion should not play a part in policy or law. The US and England have laws based on judeo-christian law, but they have other systems thet atteempt to make the law fair to all parties.

Shiria does not. It is a throw back and has no place in the modern world. Shiria can be seperated from Islam, like Turkey, but Islam is generally viewed as not only a religion but structure of goverment and set of rules to govern with and live under. To my knowledge Turkey is the only country that has successfully seperated Islam from these aspects and created a place where free expression (open faith, homosexuality, alcohol consumption, etc) is permitted.

[ChrisK]

9. I wish the world would step out of the dark ages

And some folks wonder why there was and is still an on-going fight to make sure that church and state in America is kept apart.

Laws in ALL countries have to be above religion if there is to be fare and equal justice. Religion is simply too far-fetched to base a set of laws governing people to be fare to all...not to mention old and VERY out-dated.

I always find it funny seeing people in a country walking around using cell phones, driving SUV's and living in a somewhat "modern world" and still find themselves bound to laws that are older then dirt and are quite exculsive..unless of course you're a man.

[gatlingforme]

11. Here in the US, the fact that women can't be raped by their husbands

was a shock to most 20 yrs ago. The US is still coming to grips with the fact that when a woman dresses a certain way --- she really is not asking to be raped. Also, it is a shock to most male jurists that it is LAWFUL to have a sexual relationship before and after a woman is raped too. Hummmmm, QUITE SHOCKING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scenario at a rape trial. Defense: "and what were you wearing when you were accosted"?

ANOTHER oldie but goodie, " How many sexual relationships did you have" ???

Then you see the judge look at the victim(witness) as if this means something. LOL HOW HYPOCRITCAL CAN WE BE?????

[Radius]

12. Murder

I know of no case where a man killed his wife in open court in the US, UK, or Western Europe and is released.

The US system is far from perfect, but is in no way comparable to shiria law.

Watch the olympics? See any saudi women?

Egypt jailed hundreds of gays for being gay a few years ago.

The us is not perfect, I have been to the Malaysia and it is a whole other world.

Women are not afforded rights close to what they have here, punishment for breaking laws is severe.

Religion and government do not mix well.

[gatlingforme]

13. I agree, Shiria law is another way of putting women down, and

I also think that religion and government do not mix one bit. I was just stating a fact that we are "all" a long way from thinking women are more than just property. In the US the law might state otherwise, but the attitudes must change. Jurists are still in the dark ages.

[sui generis]

14. but the important thing is that we have laws

that protect women. There will always be backwards thinking people, and even people who think the law does not apply to them, but the fact that we have laws established that protect the rights of women (among others) is critical. The rest will eventually follow.

In the example of the murder of that 16 year old girl, nobody saw that taking a life for "having a sharp tongue" was really an unusual punishment. Extremists don't view themselves as extremist. It's always easier to talk about "those guys over there", but the fact of the matter is that puritan America was founded by a bunch of religious nutcase extremists who were kicked out of England for their radical conservative views.

[gatlingforme]

15. I agree and the Scarlett Letter -- comes to mind. The Puritans came

here for religious freedom, but they were far from being pure. I agree with you 100%.