Canada geese have outworn welcome

[jamesinca]

Canada geese have outworn welcome
U.S. may let states control size of nonmigratory flocks

Edward Epstein, Chronicle Washington Bureau Friday, August 22, 2003

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Washington -- Flocks of Canada geese could soon become sitting ducks.
The federal government proposed Thursday allowing states to kill hundreds of thousands of the big, brassy birds that have become an increasing nuisance in urban centers, including the Bay Area.

The federally protected birds, which can grow to 14 pounds and live for up to 20 years, have found life in urban areas so hospitable that many of them no longer bother to follow their species' ancient migration path from Canada in the summer to their winter homes in the southern U.S. and Mexico.


<snip>

"The geese are like people. They find a nice place to live, and they stay," said Fremont Mayor Gus Morrison, who for years has wrestled with a big population of Canada geese at Lake Elizabeth, a huge park where the birds have found a happy home amid the mowed grass and water and a lack of predators.


GOOSE-CHASING DOG

After trying several solutions, Fremont finally spent more than $5,000 to buy Luke, a McNab shepherd dog whose job is to chase the geese into the lake. The birds don't like being in water for extended periods, so the thought is they'll abandon Lake Elizabeth.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/22/GEESE.TMP

Where do you think the geese from the city of Feemont went when "Luke the dog" chased them off, they went to the next pond over and the contoversie started up again. I guess we are going to have to drain all the water out of the migratory pathway.

[molok555]

1. Geese ARE a nuisance

there's a park in Vancouver that has been nicknamed 'Goose Shit' park because of them. BUT...the only solution is to wipe 'em out, like with the starlings in the 19th century. And we're all beyond that, aren't we?

[jamesinca]

2. As the article says they move in and don't leave

Why do they move in and quit migrating, because they are comfortable. I think solutions like "Luke the dog" can be used effectively. We don't need to kill a million geese, we just need to make the waterways less attractive to them so they keep on their migratory path, and don't become squatters.

[caribmon]

3. What's wrong with a few Canadian Geese?

[jamesinca]

6. A few geese are not a problem

They are talking about 3.2 million geese that are the problem.

[amazona]

41. no such animal or bird as Canadian Geese

They are probably referring to the Canada Goose. And, yes, it can certainly be a problem...see my previous post.

[bearded_cat]

4. Sounds like it's time for a "adopt Greg the Goose" program

I'll take two.

[Skittles]

5. Aren't they like........HONKETTES?

don't they honk really LOUDLY? They'd drive me insane. :O

[jamesinca]

9. That is one thing that is mentioned in the article

Yes they do honk, if that makes them a bunch of honkettes or honkies so be it. 3.2 million honkies in Oakland, that can be a problem. Bay area people may or may not appreciate that cheap attempt at humor. Seriously, people are upset by the noise and goose poop and want them gone.

[noonwitch]

7. They are all over Belle Isle in Detroit

They have achieved pest status here. Can you make foie gras from canadian geese? Too bad you can't hunt in city parks, but they are so populas at Belle Isle it would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Chico Man]

8. A beach with geese poop all over it is not very pretty

I won't swim in a geese "infested" lake or pond. And it is just that - an infestation.

They are a pain in the a$$.

[yellowcanine]

10. Rumor has it...

they are quite tasty. Perhaps PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals) should be notified.

[snooper2]

25. They are...

Make great stews. I never tried making jerky from goose meat before but heres a chance. Send me a couple on dry ice and I'll give it a shot!

[yellowcanine]

11. Luke the Dog doesn't sleep?

Seems to me that the geese, being the water fowl that they are, could probably stay in the water longer than Luke could maintain his vigilance. One of the biggest problems with "resident geese" is well-meaning people feeding them in public parks. Just encourages them to hang out on lawns and walkways and poop everywhere.

[Chico Man]

13. There is a beautiful lawn and lake here on the campus of my workplace

And it is quite infested with Canadian Geese. The look like sheep as they basically are eating/shitting machines. They comb the grounds and leave a nice top dressing of premium geese shit everywhere.

This is also the case at the vast majority of lakes and ponds in RI.

I for one think this is a major problem. I think geese shit contaminates the water.

[yellowcanine]

16. Water, nutrients, and goose shit

Yep, goose poop is a big problem in water. Lots of phosphorus and nitrogen - causes algae "blooms" - when the algae dies it sucks all of the oxygen out of the water and the fish go belly-up - not to mention the water becomes very "fowl" (pun intended).

[Superfly]

18. Increase bag limit size!

Get Luke the dog to scare up the geese so they fly over to my blind. Dinner.

I wonder how gees who have eaten/ben fed Pop-tarts, Wonderbread, and other nutritionally-sound food items taste?

[StandWatie]

34. the story has it wrong..

the point of running the dog is that the geese won't nest if he is in the area every day. He is an actual threat.

[SOS]

12. Humans are the problem

We leave mountains of trash everywhere and then complain about rats and raccoons. We sprawl subdivisions into the forest and then whine about the deer who have lived there for thousands of years. Gotta shoot all the birds that live near the airport which was built on their habitat.
Gotta shoot all the bears and wolves, because they're scary.
The US population in 1900 was 76 million. Now it is 280 million.
Up 400% in one century! Humans replicate like a virus, destroying everything in their path and then have the temerity to complain about some goose-droppings. :eyes:

[Chico Man]

14. Some goose dropping?

Were talking about a nice "top dressing" of goose dropping. It looks like someone core-aerated the lawn. It is nasty! It ruins parks and lakes that would be beautiful otherwise.

[Superfly]

15. Personally...

I think a park looks better with geese present.

There are reasons geese land and then stay in parks:

1) People feed them.
2) No pesky coyotes or wolves running around.
3) Short grass does not irritate thier wings.


Just because humans raze a forest and then replant a park is no reason to deny the denizens of the wilderness their place on this earth, too.

[Chico Man]

17. Regardless, a pond with a coating of geese poop and feathers

~is~ a problem. They pollute the water. It is no longer safe for drinking or swimming. And ofter times these ponds are not surrounded by clearcut fields.

A few geese is OK. When it is impossible to walk barefoot on a beach without geese poop squeezing through your toes I think something has to be done.

[Superfly]

19. Polluted to whom?

The geese seem not to mind. You know, they are citizens of this planet as well.

B

[Chico Man]

20. See post 16

I'd much rather have fish in the pond.

[Heddi]

36. Their excessive shit causes

unnatural algae blooms in lakes and rivers that they live by which will cause the destruction of indigenous flora and fauna in those rivers and lakes.

You say "wear shoes"---well no shoes I've found will prevent you from slipping and greatly injuring yourself as you slide down a hill covered in nearly 2 inches of goose shit.

This isn't about greedy humans trying to get rid of animals who are native to the area---this is about humans trying to cull the number of NON-NATIVE geese who instead of migrating further south, or going back up north, stay in one area, become overpopulated to the point of destroying the area they have now claimed as their new home.

They are aggressive. They shit all over the place. In yards. On Cars. In Parks. In Lakes. In Rivers.

They chase away the NATIVE birds and other animals because of the increased competition for food and breeding areas.

[Superfly]

21. "geese poop squeezing through your toes"

Tip of the day: wear shoes.

[Chico Man]

22. On the beach? In the water? (nt)

[KC]

33. I agree

We have them all over NC too, but they don't bother me at all.
I think they are beautiful, even if they do poop everywhere.

KC

[truth2power]

44. We have them here

in my community. And, yeah, they do poop all over. But I still find them beautiful. At a time when the whole freakin' planet is going to hell, I just have to find some way of honoring whatever beauty there is in the world.

Sometimes I stop my car at the side of the road and just watch them feed....and poop, I guess. Keeps me sane (somewhat). :shrug:

[Johnyawl]

23. They've achieved pest levels in Washington State, too

Personally, I think the way to deal with this is to remove the new behavior from the gene pool. Any bird that doesn't migrate should be eaten. It makes sense ecologically; the reason the birds live in the public parks and won't leave are; a) plenty of food, and b) no predators. So lets up the predation level! I'll do my part and eat a couple of birds a year.

[Keithpotkin]

24. just like georgy.

.

[yellowcanine]

26. Romantic notions about "wildlife"

Too many people have a romantic notion that all "wildlife" everywhere is good. Problem is, in many areas, geese, beavers, deer, etc. are no more wildlife than your pet cat. They are domesticated animals in the sense of having adapted to humans and their environment. We have already manipulated their environment - it does no good to them or us to now say "leave them alone". Overpopulation of geese, deer and beavers has resulted in environmental degradation for everyone. Picture a lake with no large trees around it, the banks covered in goose poop, and the water with a green scum on the surface. Not only that, geese and deer suffer from disease and starvation as their populations get too large for the environment to sustain them. Not to mention the slaughter of deer that occurs on the highways. But - help is on the way. The coyotes are also adapting to humans and as they do, there will be fewer geese and deer around, at least.

[chiburb]

30. And, these are domestic geese!

Most of the nuisance geese (that IS what they're called... google the term) in this discussion are NOT migratory and never were. In the '20s domesticated geese were used as "live decoys" to attract migrating geese to the hunters. If I recall, there was actually a Federal subsidy to raise these geese for that purpose. That program ended when Canadian geese were found to be in short supply (the '40s or '50s?) and they hit the Endagered Species list. Anyway, these geese are the descendants of those geese.

I keep hoping for a coyote to take up residence in my neighborhood, but 'till then I find smoke bombs work wonders. The fuse sounds exactly like their hisses, and the smoke scares the crap out of them (literally). Its days or even weeks before they try my yard again, and it doen't hurt them. NIMBY? Yep, but enough of the neighbors do the same thing so that our pond has been (almost) algae free this summer.

[Kool Kitty]

46. I was struck by this sentence-

"Not only that, geese and deer suffer from disease and starvation as their populations get too large for the environment to sustain them." You know, you could be talking about us humans that way in a few years. Maybe it is a "romantic notion" that wildlife everywhere is good. If it is, then I am an incurable romantic. I like having animals and birds around where I live.

[GypsyBob1]

27. Cant eat ‘City’ geese

Too full of pesticides, etc.

And geese with stay all year wherever there is food and open water, like an office park.

The best solution seems to be herding dog breeds, trained to scare them off. There has been some success with that.

[maxsolomon]

28. $5k for a DOG?

i think you can get cheaper dogs to do the same job. my obedience instructor's akita decapatated a canada goose who stood up to him, and the entire flock left the area. akitas cost a grand, max.

i hope the geese land on craig mccaw's lawn this morning & cover it in droppings.

[Gloria]

29. The geese at the Wall Street Journal/Dow campus

on Route 1 in S. Brunswick, NJ have totally shitted up the place!!

LOL!!!! And nearly every other corporate office park around!!!!

[Chico Man]

31. Maybe they (the geese) are the ones who set fire to the Hummer dealership?

Is geese poop flammable? Maybe this will solve our dependency on foreign oil.

We can harvest the poop from the defaced (shit-covered) corporate campuses.

[swinney]

32. Canadian Geese--Thanksgiving Dinner for all

They have taken over our golf course for past two years and grow in numbers each year.

What is wrong with them? Try putting thru their feces on greens.

Williamsburg, Va Country Club has a rake on a green near a pond for raking it off.

I like them except for mess on greens.

[Heddi]

35. They're all over seattle

tho not as many as there were when we moved out here 2 years ago----but then again, I don't necessarily go to the places we saw them back then, well, because of the geese.

They shit all over the place, and their shit is quite slippery, which can be a problem, esp. in seattle when the grass is already slippery from the rain----

It's dis-heartening to go to a park for a picnic adn you can't even SIT anywhere, or put down a blanket b/c of their goose poo.

They can also be quite aggressive, as I've seen a goose chase down a very stressed young child in a park---and the goose was about the child's size----

They had a thing here where they shot the geese, which many people found as bothersome as the geese themselves.

As I understand it, there is a method of coating geese eggs with turpentine which prevent the embryo's inside from maturing (basically, it kills the embryo inside the eggs) which does well for future goose populations, but does nothing for the masses that are already here.

My inlaws are in town this week, and we went to a few parks over the past few days and they're like 'ooh look at the geese. Let's feed them"---NOOOO! Don't feed them!

Plus their shit causes unnatural algae blooms in the water which can wreck ecosystems.

Migratory fowl are fine--and I love them---but it does become a problem when the fowl stop "migrating' and make permanent residences in places where they haven't before

[NickB79]

37. So where do the geese go once the dogs run them off?

They will just move over a few miles to another park that doesn't have a dog, set up shop there and the problem starts all over again. If there are no parks nearby, they will find a nice open farm field to destroy. A large flock of Canadian geese can wipe out acres of newly planted corn, soybeans, oats, wheat, etc, in a single day. We send 3 million otherwise city-dwelling birds into the countryside, I can only imagine how nearby farmers will feel seeing that cloud descend on them.

If you want to see what harm goose overpopulation can really do to the environment, look up info on what snow geese have been doing to the tundra through their overgrazing. Geese are no different from other animals: if the population has no predators and gets too large, they overgraze their habitat, destroy it, and then have a massive die-off. We've been seeing deer do this for decades now, and our forests are suffering because of it.

[Chico Man]

39. That is an interesting viewpoint.

What was that book I read as a child.. where the father and son sabotaged the Pheasent shoot by drugging raisins with sleeping powder?

Maybe this is a strategy we could use?

[catmandu57]

38. They are being killed here in nwmo

the geese have overrun the place, just like deer their populations exploded in the last few years. Goose season has been extended, and opened in places not open before. There isn't any sport in it, but for maniacs with guns who just want to kill something it's heaven.
The meat is being donated to open door kitchens, along with deer meat, so the poor are getting fed.

Also, there has been a resurgence in the puma population, mainly because of the overabundance of deer and geese. There have been three killed by accident in the past year.

[amazona]

42. yes, the lack of sport in hunting them is an issue...

...The true bird hunters doesn't want to shoot a "sitting duck." No sport or skill is needed to shoot a bird that has forgotten how to fly. And some who have participated in such hunts out of a desire to create a healthy environment have reported feeling dispirited by this sort of "hunting." It is more like butchery than true hunting. Perhaps the answer may be, if enough hunters cannot be found who want to hunt these geese (or deer in some cases), then paid snipers will have to be employed. I have heard of paid snipers being used to control white-tailed deer in Pennsylvania.

I've even heard people complain is no sport to hunting Snow Goose, which is a true wild goose, so how much more of an issue this could be with domesticated Canada Goose.

[amazona]

40. some of these geese must be depopulated IMHO

The story of the goose is an interesting one. I believe, as many people used to believe and perhaps still do, that the goose was the first domesticated animal. The goose, you see, domesticates herself. Later, the wolf did the same, but you have to agree from observation that it is considerably faster and easier for goose species to self domesticate than it is for wolf species to self domesticate.

Geese that are no longer wild animals -- that no longer wish to migrate but instead want to live year round in our parks and manmade lakes -- are not doing anything different from what humans themselves do. Most of us will live in one place, a nice one with a view to a lake we rarely swim in if possible, if we can arrange it. Especially if the choice is traveling an arduous trek each year to a northern land full of mosquitoes...and to get there you have to pass through a gauntlet of skilled men shooting at you. So I sympathize with the Canada (NOT Canadian) Goose.

Nonetheless, in many areas, the self domesticated birds have become a nuisance and reduce the enjoyment of parks and ponds for other bird species and even for human beings. Although these self domesticated birds are poor hunting -- some males can't even get airborne -- they are excellent eating. I believe that properly licensed hunters should be allowed to deal with the problem.

A $5,000 dog used to chase the geese into someone else's neighborhood is just wrong on so many levels. For $5,000, with my four figure annual income, I'll get out there and chase the damn geese myself. Hell, I might even catch a few. Don't try this at home, kiddies, I've kept geese and know how to handle them, but they are strong and powerful birds so you need to know what you are doing.

They are perfectly wholesome eating; if anyone eats fruit, she is consuming far more pesticides than she will get from a nice fat goose. Geese unlike ducks are near vegetarians who eat at the bottom of the food chain.

We have some Canada geese around here who "volunteer" to hang around all year and they cause little problem because it is probably too hot for too many of them to gather...but I've seen gatherings up a bit north in Mississippi that you wouldn't believe.

I would vote for controlled hunting. And I would be happy to support the hunter if she were allowed to sell the meat. Most if not all waterfowl where I live -- to be legally hunted it must be "tagged" -- and it cannot be sold.

Some exception made for the Canada Goose seems only sensible. The wild -- MIGRATORY -- bird should continue to enjoy protection under the Migratory Bird Act, but domesticated animals haven't and shouldn't enjoy the same protections.

[jamesinca]

43. Ok, man created this problem, how do we uncreate it

I think this is one of the things that all the science can fix. Will there be an easy life sparing fix like a dog whistle that irritates the geese? Is a goose shooting derby the only fix? Can we harvest goose poop and the feathers fo any good? I do think this is something that should be looked at, not just open season on the goose. If you build it they will come. Should that idea be used to build goose parks?

[NickB79]

45. Uncreate it? Stop planting lawns

Seriously. I find it so weird that people have this desire to cut down all the native trees, shrubs, tall grasses and wildflowers and replace them with a boring green rug of mowed grass. I know that some open lawn space is nice for walking, playing games with the kids, etc, but a lot of that space could be replanted with shrub and prairie grass/wildflower islands with no loss of use to park-goers. It reduces the carrying capacity for geese by reducing the amount of open lawn for them to graze, and increases the food supply and diversity of berries, nuts, seeds, and insects for other native animal species to feed upon.