Germans see France as reliable partner, Britain least liked

[Kellanved]

HAMBURG - Almost two-thirds of Germans regard France as the country's most reliable partner, while Britain is less liked than Russia, the weekly Der Spiegel reported.

In its latest issue the magazine cited the results of a survey it commissioned with the TNS Infratest polling institute which showed that 64 percent of Germans see France as being the most reliable of the country's partners.

This compared with just 13 percent for the United States, six percent for Russia, and only three percent for Britain, the report said.

Der Spiegel noted that party affiliation slightly altered the poll results. Of those backing the ruling Social Democratic Party, 76 percent saw France as the country's most reliable partner, with 79 percent of the Greens feeling this way.
...
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=26&story_id=11181

[JohnKleeb]

1. So you guys are cool now heh

I cant blame them about the British :D.

[Fenris]

2. It's nice to see the Germans and the French finally living in harmony.

And no one likes the British.:D;)

[Gimel]

3. At least few

in Germany. Is that not a revealing statement? Maybe the Germans clash with the English. Should that bother me?

[Radius]

4. considering

The majority of mechanized warfare and death were carried out on the continent in euro wars.

It looks like they are working to counterbalance the US as an economic and millitary power. Time will tell how this works.

[RivetJoint]

5. Of course the prefer the French to the British

Let's see...they occupied France (or parts thereof) three times in 70 years...

And the Brits helped kick the crap out of them in two World Wars (freeing the occupied portions of France both times.)

I suppose I'd prefer the guys I whipped up on too, instead of the guys who kicked my ass.

[Flagg]

7. The only things that saved Brit's ass from the germans.

were the English channel and the Yanks.

And France occupied Germany for 50 years after WWII, peacefully so but still.

[Matilda]

9. Whoah!

It wasn't Britain that caved in with hardly a shot fired. And
Britain fought the Germans aided only by us colonials from Canada,
Australia and New Zealand for over two years before the U.S.
entered the war.

And France didn't exactly occupy Germany all by herself, although
she did go marching in bravely once the fighting was all over.

[Flagg]

12. 300 000 French soldiers died int the first weeks of WWII

defending their countries
that's alot of shots fired.


If not fot the Yanks, the British would be speaking German too.

They were lucky to have the English channel+ 4 years of preparation+millions of Yank toops to kick ass.


Google 2DB, Colonel Rol tanguy, colonel Drone for French bravery during WWII and I'm not even talking about WWI.

[Matilda]

18. As the French lost about half a million people, civilian and military

in the whole of the war, I take that figures as an exaggeration.

Check this link:

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

I wouldn't be so foolish as to downplay the role of the U.S. forces
in finally ending the war, although there is also no doubt that
the (temperorary) addition of Russian to the Allied forces played
a decisive part - had the German army not been decimated in Russia,
the war may have dragged on even longer.

I would also not decry the role of the Resistance - but they would
have not had so much success were it not for the support of Britian
in their efforts.

Far from having four years to prepare for the war, Britian was
almost totally unprepared in 1939, due in large part to the
incompetence of her political leaders. For such a tiny country,
to hold out for so long against such a formidable enemy was nothing
short of a miracle. And the British Navy - the Channel wouldn't
have been much protection if their Navy had been as badly prepared
as their Air Force.

And they had us - the damned colonials who always obediently went to
their rescue. Which is more than Britian would have done for us,
but that's another story.

[Flagg]

24. Military: 250 000 killed and 350 000 wounded

270 000 civilians slaughtered.

From your own source hon.
http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~jobrien/reference/ob62.html

If France lost WWII is not becauseThe famous French gene of cowardice but because of poor planning, apathy and weariness regarding war.

Millions of orphans from WWI.

[Easy]

10. Personally, I think

it's more a matter of political reliability than a "personal" thing. I mean, Russia is mostly run by the mob and corporations, the US... well, I don't have to tell you about yourself ;), and Britain's administration is seen as Bush's lapdog by most people I know.

I can assure you that most people here don't give a f*ck about who kicked whose ass 70 years ago. By the way, there are a lot of things I don't like about "the French", if I may generalize that much, and I'm sure that this feeling is mutual. After all, no one is immune to prejudice and stereotyping ;)

But politically, well, France is "nearest" to Germany.

[Matilda]

14. Closest geographically, but in fact the Germans and the British

are closer by racial type, both being Saxon races.

And traditionally, both the Germans and the British have always
detested the French.

[Flagg]

16. Racial types ??

you should take a stroll through Berlin or London.
lots of races there.

with Dayly french-bashing lies by Britain's first daily The Sun , it's no wonder the British still hate the French.
It doesn't help with the exacerbated nationalism either.

The Germans in their Majority don't hate the french as the French don't hate the germans anymore.

[Matilda]

20. I know both Berlin and London.

I'm talking about traditional racial lines - the post-war mix of
races is world-wide, and we are all multi-cultural now, but I'm
talking of history.

Historically, the French come from the Latin races, and the British
and Germans from the Saxons. And in more recent times, the British
were always allied with the Germans against the French. That arose
partly because of the British Royal Family being German - both the
Kaiser in WWI and Hitler in WWII were surprised that Britain entered
the war against Germany. Both expected Britain to stay neutral.

[Flagg]

26. Thanx for the history lesson but it's 2004.

But like the WII stuff, I don't think the germans polled had that in mind when they answered.



You need to get some stereotypes out of your head.

And if I may, Historically, the French descend mainly from the Gauls (celts).
Every French kids know that.

[aneerkoinos]

29. Racism is so last century

But perhaps not in America? Don't you still mark your "race" in your ID cards or whaddayaknow? There are no "Latin" or "Saxon" races. You muddle up race with linguistic groups and historical tribes. Biologically there's only one human race.

Edit to ad: correction, I see you're from Oz. But no difference, you got openly racist PM and Labour is not much better in it's history of racist policies...

[Easy]

17. You're kidding about that "racial type" thing, aren't you?

I mean, come on! Europe in general is as racially diverse as society can be. Sympathy or antipathy based on "racial relation" is simply ridiculous.

As for the detesting part, I already wrote that there's still some irrational resentment left. But that's nowhere near outspoken hatred.

[Matilda]

22. Racial types are a matter of historical fact.

That is not saying that one is superior or inferior, better or worse.
But they are different, and the language reflects that.

Apart from Latin, which has found its way into most Western European
languages, the roots of English and German have many similarities,
and are closer to one another than either is to French. English
and German are more guttaral in sound, French, which is a Romance
language, is more nasal.

And I would be the last to practice racial hatred; I'd have to have
a split personality, numbering the English, French, Scots and
Germans amongst my great-grandparents.

[Easy]

23. But all of the above

has as little to none influence today as have the wars of the last century. So... what's your point? :)

[Matilda]

25. Historical accuracy, as reflected in my first post on this thread.

n/t

[aneerkoinos]

30. xcuse???!

"Language reflects racial types"???

Just when I thought you couldn't do any worse...

[smirkymonkey]

36. Linguistically speaking

many groups are categorized according to their language family. i.e, Scandinavians are technically Danish, Swedish, Norwegian and Icelandic speaking a Germanic tongue, however the Finns are not considered "Scandinavian" because their language is derived from another Indo-european language family (Finno-Ugric, Same as Hungarian and even Korean).

I think that what the poster is talking about.

[aneerkoinos]

39. Linguistically speaking

There was nothing unclear about what she said, she spoke about race-groups, not linguistic families.

And: Scandinavia is primarily a geographical area, consisting of Sweden and Norway, but the word is also used to describe a linguistic subgroup of Germanic languages. Islandic is Scandinavian language, but Iceland is not part of Scandinavia and the inhabitants of Island are not Scandinavians.

Likewise, Finns are not Scandinavians because we just ain't, and yes, our language does belong to the Fenno-Ugric language family, but Fenno-Ugric languages are not related to Indo-European languages, these are two separate language families. And no, Korean is not Fenno-Ugric language.

[smirkymonkey]

41. No need to be so snarky.

The information I looked up was not entirely correct, but neither was it entirely incorrect either. The superfamily of Ural-Altaic languages branches off into Altaic (of which Korean is an assumed subgroup) and Uralic, of which Finno-Ugric is a subgroup. Also " few scholars also consider the Uralic languages to be related to the Indo-European languages", but this is really not a debate about linguistics.
http://www.fact-index.com/u/ur/ural_altaic_languages.html

The point was that human "groupings" frequently refer more to language family than to RACE. i.e. Contrary to popular belief, Iranians are not "Arabs" because they don't speak an Arabic language, even though they are surrounded by Arabic countries.

Also, if you are going to nit-pick, I did not refer to Scandinavia (the Scandinavian Peninsula), but the Scandinavian countries(politically), of which Iceland was initially included as a dependent territory of Denmark.

[aneerkoinos]

42. Who started the snarkiness? :)

Where did you get the incorrect info from?

No need to lecture to me. I've studied General Linguistics in University and specialized in Historical Linguistics. Ural-Altaic group is just a hypothesis, even though strong hypothesis that I happen to (mostly) agree with.

And we agree that groupings by language are meaningfull (language is a mode of thinking and inseparable from culture), groupings by race are not. Talk about human races are simply not meaningfull scientifically, there are no human races other than as dangerous social inventions with inherent racism involved. That's way "scientific" racism and the whole notion of human races should be debunked allways and everywhere.

Bit more nitpicking (and thanks again for the lecture about the part of world where I happen to live :)): It's better to speak about Nordic Countries (Nordiska länder, Pohjoismaat) when referring to the five countries that have close cultural, historical and political ties, to avoid these complications. Iceland is politically and culturally a Nordic Country, but it is questionable whether it should be called Scandinavian country any more than Finland. IMHO not.

[smirkymonkey]

27. And don't forget, the English Monarchy is German too!

:evilgrin:

[bhairava]

34. Racial types????indeed

The Franks were a GERMANIC tribe, the Gauls were Celts, the Bretons were Celts, and the Normans were Scandinavians! Not much different from the English at all really (Germanic and Celtic and a few Latin peoples with a Roman cultural overlay and language in both cases). In any case, this I'm whiter (or more Germanic) than you thing is ridiculous and offensive! There is NO such thing as race in biology. Only populations. Besides were ALL probably descended from the same brown man in Africa roughly 60000 years ago.

[Endangered Specie]

6. You really expect Germans to like the people that kicked their asses?

(Russia, Britian, US) lowest ranked.

[Flagg]

8. You guys need to get over WWII

[Matilda]

11. Given the very recent history of Iraq, this is hardly surprising.

But it's a shame that the British people are being blamed for the
mistakes of Tony Blair, when most of them didn't support his
decisions.

[Kellanved]

13. actually

I think it is more the UK's role in blocking almost any major EU reform or endeavor.

[Matilda]

15. Again, Blair being the spoiler, for his own purposes.

It's almost as though if he can't be the leader, he doesn't want
to play.

[gbarford]

19. You are joking aren't you...

It is France and Germany that are the main bedblockers in the EU. That is why Britain and the new Eastern bloc of the EU blocked the French-German candidate for European Commission President, and that is why France and Germany now have some of the lowest positions on the European Commission.

[Kellanved]

21. Welcome to DU

:hi:

That was a good one. The Onion?

[aneerkoinos]

31. Wellcome!

Even though your understanding of internall EU politics is at so low level that it deserves no comment. :)

[aneerkoinos]

28. WWII

WWII is so last century. The opinions presented by this poll have nothing to do with WWII, even if you Murikans have a peculiar knack of looking through all the world through WWII pilot glasses. ;)

Germany and France form the close EU axis, and in many ways act as one country. Brits still continue trying to keep Europe divided and weak, they really have had no novel foreign policy ideas since they lost the 100 Year War. That's the reason they wanted in EU, to sabotage it, and De Gaulle was smart enough to understand that.

But most of all, Germans still remember how Thatcher opposed the reunivication of Germany and insulted the whole nation the worst way imaginable. They also see that Blair is just Thatcher lite, and worse in many ways.

[BonjourUSA]

44. You're absolutely right. Nothing more about that

[Borgnine]

32. Wow.

From a historical standpoint, it's crazy to think we're living in a time when France and Germany are chummy.

[aneerkoinos]

33. Isn't EU a wonderfull thing? n/t

[airstrip1]

35. Britain and France are closer than either care to admit

There is lovely episode of the BBC comedy series 'Yes, Minister' where Sir Humphrey tells Jim Hacker that the reason Britain joined the EU was to keep the continental Europeans divided. He explains that this has been English policy for over five hundred years. The reason is simple. The people of England carry in their bones the memory of 1066. They have never forgotten what happens when your country is invaded and your people are subjected to foreign rule. Duke William's invasion actually entwined England and France for over half a millennium. As a consequence the dirty little secret of these two countries history is that they are very closely related. Nearly all the English national symbols from the Royal Motto to the Three Lions on the England football teams shirts are French in origin. So also are a large number of the words that make up modern English. Germans who think the French have either forgotten or forgiven what happened in World War II are deluding themselves. I suggest that they take a visit to Pere La Chaise cemetery in Paris and look at the monuments to the French Resistance killed by the Nazis or the 600,000 French civilians deported to work as forced labour in the Third Reich, ten percent of whom never returned. They bear the following words 'N'OUBLIONS JAMAIS'.

[legin]

37. I don't like britain either, and I'm british

Way to go blair to get us dumped to the bottom of the heap in Europe, great foreign policy that was, isolated and hated except by his best buddy the neo-fascist shithead Berlesconi.

(Some nice pictures over the last few days in the papers here of blair hanging out with Berlesconi over in Italy. They played football together apparently. How touching. Puke. )

[allemand]

38. Please note that it was a factual question

And the fact is that the German and French governments are very close now.

I think that the cultural gap between Germany and France is still very big. The influence of American culture in Germany is much stronger than the influence of French culture. And the average German still has no idea about French politics...

[happynewyear]

40. suits me just fine

Maybe if poodle boy Blair hadn't been so quick to play his role as the great defender of America ( "we were with you in the beginning and we are with you now ..." ) MAYBE, just maybe things MIGHT be a little bit different, or maybe even a lot more different and a whole lot better!

At least France and Germany see the light!

Screw you Tony Blair and your jolly old England which apparently isn't so damn jolly anymore with the likes of you! You Blair are going to be dumped.

I am glad that the English people can smell the rat that you are you hypocrite! :grr:

:dem:

[T_i_B]

43. Don't mention the war!

O8)

[BonjourUSA]

45. Stop to evoke the wars !!

My grand father learnt to hate the "Boche" at school. He fought three years during WWI. . he came back with many wounds but more than 2 million didn't.
My father was a 22-year-old resistant. Before to be arrested, he was able to cross the Channel and he continued the war in the Forces Françaises Libres. When he died in 1982, he thought the European building was too slow. One of his brothers was less lucky, arrested in 1943 he died in German camps, he was 19 years old.
A cousin of my mother was resistant and communist. Arrested in september 1942. The SS did a random choice everyday for knowing who they was going to shoot. One day...
Many members of my family wasn't so glorious and they lived with the only aim like the huge majority of the French people : eating. Some ones was very much less glorious and...

We are in 2004, Frenchs and Germans will be both happy and proud of having a common identity card soon and it's very better like that.

[T_i_B]

46. I was referring to Fawlty Towers

:eyes: