Ex-Viet Cong Soldier Recalls Swift Boats

[Khephra]

snip............

Hung said he's also puzzled by the uproar over Kerry's decision to join the anti-war movement upon returning home. He said Kerry's actions proved he learned a lot during his time in Vietnam and that he wanted to keep other Americans from dying here.

"When they went home, they knew the nature of the war and the people here were innocent and they knew it was nonsense to wage war here," said Hung, whose two older brothers joined the Viet Cong and laid mines in the rivers where the Swift boats operated.

And while Kerry may be worried about veterans' support in America, Sinh said he would vote any day for his former enemy over President Bush. In the veteran's opinion, Kerry's experience along these rivers fighting Viet Cong might keep him from sending other young Americans to invade countries.

"He knew the suffering and how much misery it brought to the people of Vietnam - he knew the cruelty of war," Sinh said. "So, I don't think he would go to war again if he's elected."

more............

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/9545234.htm

GREAT long article. It's hard to quote as it's so interesting.

[Pale_Rider]

1. Bush is a freaking coke-snoking, whoring ...

... bastard of a coward!

OK ... I've calmed down.

[GliderGuider]

2. Hmmm, I don't know

how well support by a Viet Cong will play in Peoria...

I agree with him, but it's a sitting-duck story for the Borg to spin.

[jmowreader]

4. Kerry has a rebuttal to that if he'll use it

Bush: "Kerry was endorsed by a member of the Viet Cong."

Kerry: "That's nothing, Bush was endorsed by an ally of al-Qaeda."

[Dhalgren]

5. At least that Viet Cong soldier served his country.

[noonwitch]

6. It depends-is he a defector/refugee from Vietnam?

That would play well. He was forced to participate in the Viet Cong army, and got out as soon as possible.

[actappan]

8. It won't play well . . .

I have to agree - this is not the sort of praise that Kerry needs right now. A former VC praising his post service testimony and war resistance is just the sort of ammunition/"Proof" that the RW and SBVfT types will use to point to how Kerry "hurt veterans" upon his return.

[blm]

9. Except the American people had already turned against the war BEFORE Kerry

spoke. Kerry's efforts were aimed directly at a confused congress.

You all make a mistake if you think Kerry was speaking out against a popular war.

[yardwork]

22. This is a point that seems to be lost

even on those who were adults during the time period in question.

Kerry testified to Congress under oath. When questioned about what happened, he told Congress what he knew, based on first-person accounts of other veterans. Those veterans asked Kerry to tell their stories to Congress.

As usual, Rove is projecting Bush's own failures onto an innocent party. It is Bush and his staff who lied to Congress about 9/11, Abu Ghraib, uranium in Iraq, WMD, Medicare costs, and a host of other things.

Kerry was truthful under oath.

Who's the hero? Who's the traitor?

Rove plays this shell game and some people are too silly to see through it.

[henslee]

14. Yup, we gotta put those slant eyed vietmanese fellas on ice until after

Nov.

[ellie]

3. Oh Puh-leeze!

What do these ex-Viet Cong soldiers know about war? Nothing! Now smirky, there is a great leader!

/sarcasm off

[Sequoia]

7. Thanks.

[xchrom]

10. interesting read -- i liked it

it gives another dimension to this whole sbv bull shit.
the viet namese are not our enemies any longer -- and this is fascinating history from the human perspective.

[nolabels]

11. The War was over 30 some years ago

Some people probably just get lonely when they are not involved in getting people killed



http://bootnewt.blogspot.com/

[krkaufman]

12. Not necessarily helpful article

I think one big difference between Bush and Kerry is that Kerry's military service and experience in Vietnam wouldn't *prevent* him from going to war across the board; rather, Kerry's experience would make him more thoughtful (i.e considerably less careless) about sending our troops into danger.

[OnTheFence]

13. Viet Cong Article....

As an Independent and just an observation on my part.... Senator Kerry doesn't want the endorsement of an Ex Viet Cong. I would think that you would want to put this Viet Nam discussion behind you. (Its hurting Sen Kerry's Poll numbers) Supporters need to articulate John Kerry's position in a thoughtful and respectful manner. When the small percentage of independents and undecided are looking for information and answers to our questions were not swayed by message board members that attack the other candidate or recite the latest partisan headline. If you truly care about sending Senator Kerry to the White House, then state his vision. You should be able to tell me what Senator Kerry stands for in less than 15 seconds (Just an overview - a list of bullet items). You should also be prepared to defend your position but not by pointing to another candidates faults. You can't justify bad policy by pointing out bad policy. Convince me why Senator Kerry deserves to be president. I am asking the same of the Republican message board. My vote is undecided and I live in Florida. If History is any indicator it might very well be the deciding vote.

OnTheFence

Rob Young
Orlando Florida

[TrogL]

15. Welcome to DU

We'll do our best to help you decide for yourself by presenting the facts.

Primarily, we will point to Bush's current record.

[OnTheFence]

20. Thanks for the warm welcome....

See the problem for me is when I come into the message boards either here or on the republican is that they want to point out the others record. What I would prefer is that each message board elaborate on their own candidates record. To point to the other candidates failures is fine but tell me what your candidate has done that makes him uniquely qualified to be president.

I know of John Kerry's service in Vietnam and I respect that but service in the military can't be the only prerequisite. (Remember our most famous war time presidents never fought in a war) Maybe you can share with me bills or laws that he authored. This usually gives me an insight into what he believes is most important to him. If you could also outline where he stands on the following issues. (If you have voting data that would be great).

National Security Issues

Health Care

Education

Taxes

I have listed these in order of importance to me. I apologize for the long winded message but I seem to torture myself every 4 years in national elections to search out and assimilate information so I can make an informed decision. Rest assured that the questions that I ask on the other republican board are far tougher.

OnTheFence

Rob Young
Orlando Florida

[gatlingforme]

23. can you give me a link on the republican board ??? where your

questions are far tougher??? LOL Please

[0rganism]

25. Links to the answers for you, all about John Kerry

First, re. bills Kerry has sponsored or co-sponsored over the last several years, cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_of_legislation_by_John_Kerry
and http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html

Go to http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm for bullet point rundowns on the major position areas for Sen. Kerry, including supporting references and quotes. Your areas of interest are covered. You can compare directly with the Bush positions at the same site.

[OnTheFence]

27. Thanks

Thanks..I do appreciate it.

[A_Possum]

29. I made a longer list below, but...

since you mention National Security issues as your top concern, I'd like to point out a part of Kerry's record that gets overlooked because it doesn't easily fit into a sound bite.

There's a lot of claim from the Bush camp that Kerry "didn't do anything" in the senate. That's an utterly superficial assessment, based on such shaky things as the number of bills with his name on them and how many times he attended committee meetings.

A far more telling part of Kerry's record is his successful effort, against considerable opposition from BOTH sides of the aisle, to expose the illegal activities of the BCCI. Bush did business with Bin Laden's bankers while Kerry was fighting to shut it down to terrorist and drug connections.

Long before September 11, 2001, George W. Bush got a 25 million dollar loan from the same bankers that dealt with bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, while John Kerry was fighting to stop this bank's global laundering of money for drug lords and terrorists. John Kerry shut it down. He's been fighting terrorism at its roots since before George Bush ran for office.

"The Bank of Credit and Commerce International was an institution of Middle East origins whose employees asked few questions of their wealthy and powerful customers, making it a favorite of arms merchants, drug dealers, such as Noriega, and intelligence agencies," according to the Boston Globe bio of Kerry. "At the CIA, which sometimes used the bank to launder its own activities, it was known as 'Bank of Crooks and Criminals.'"

In the late 80's, Bush got a loan for $25 million for his failing oil company, Harkin, from a Saudi banker who dealt through BCCI, thereby joining its other customers such as Noriega, Hussein and Osama bin Laden.

At the same time, Kerry was working to investigate it. He used his senate committee powers to shut down this fraudulent banking operation against great opposition from prominent people on both sides of the aisle, including some Democrats who had become involved.

(Kerry came across the bank's shadowy activities, btw, while investigating the Iran-contra scandal, and pursued it.)

Washington Monthly has a very good overview of this, Follow the Money.

It's an excellent example of the kind of dedicated, tough and persistent defender of this country that Kerry is, compared to Bush's lack of experience and disinterest.

[OnTheFence]

31. Thanks A_Possum

This is good...let me research it and get back. This is what I'm looking for that helps me to consider Kerry's character as a politician.

[A_Possum]

16. Welcome to DU

I don't think what Kerry stands for can be summed up in 15 seconds. I think the country deserves much better from our candidates than 15 second sound bites.

Kerry is a man of high ethics, wide experience, and great courage which he has demonstrated over and over both personally and politically. He is the kind of person I want to see leading this country; the kind of person who represents what John Kennedy said so long ago, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

However, for your bullet list:

National Security:

-Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances: Kerry has the intelligence and experience to know how to repair our shredded friendships. If anyone can clean up Bush's mess in Iraq and bring in allies, Kerry can.
-Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats:additional troops to stop the backdoor draft
-Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil

Economy:

-Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes: Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.
-End corporate welfare, roll back tax cuts for the wealthiest, cut deficit in half in four years
--Enforce trade agreements, create tax disincentives for U.S. corporations who outsource overseas

Health care:

-Lower family premiums by up to $1,000 a year, cut waste from the system, lower the cost of prescription drugs to provide real relief to seniors, and use targeted tax cuts to extend affordable, high-quality coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every child. Aid businesses struggling to provide health insurance to workers by underwriting catastrophic coverage.

Homeland security:

-Track And Stop Terrorists--Improve ability to track and communicate in intelligence community. Kerry shut down the BCCI (bin Laden/Saddam/Noriega money-laundering bank) while Bush was getting loans for his failed business from it
-Protect Our Borders And Shores--stop ignoring the easiest ways for terrorists to enter the country
-Harden Vulnerable Targets--choose security over lobbying from chemical companies who don't want to spend the money to protect the public
-Improve Domestic Readiness--resources to first defenders, instead of shorting them as now
-Guard personal Liberties--review the Patriot Act


Education:

-Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong Learning--aid to states that keep college tuition down, and a $4k tuition tax credit
-Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through "School's Open 'Til Six"--aid children with extra help, activities to keep them out of trouble, and help working parents
-Program of college tuition in return for a year's work in public service

Environment:

-Return to rational enforcement of clean air and clean water, instead of allowing "anything goes"

Veterans:

-Kerry has stood up for veterans and health care for veterans since he returned from Vietnam. This is an issue very close to his heart, and he will make sure our veterans are not short-changed when they return from their service

[gatlingforme]

17. Thanks for the frank post, but if you want someone to convince you

on who you should vote for is a little funny, don't you think? AN informed voter is the best voter, and if you rely on others to give you this information on a silver plater because it is the duty of others to do this, than you should just vote for Bush in my book. You are the perfect Bush supporter - Others must oblige you ..... LOL

[OnTheFence]

26. If this isn't the right place....

If I have I have offended anyone here...that is not my intention. As for relying on others to give me information....thats not exactly correct. I have researched far more than I have wanted on this. What I am looking for and the bases for coming to the message boards is to solidify my decision for who I should vote for. (Which by the way is totally up in the air) By inquiring and challenging positions I am better able to make that decision. I know that there has got to be plenty of people that come here that are willing to engage in that debate that have a sincere position and are willing to share it with me. I'm sure when this site was created the host wasn't looking for an echo chamber (That's not healthy). I don't believe I have been disingenuous at all. In my mind this is an opportunity for those who believe in Senator Kerry to persuade me to vote for him in November.

OnTheFence

Rob Young
Orlando Florida

[yardwork]

28. I appreciated your question. See above and below for posts

that took your question seriously and responded. I'm happy to explain to anybody why I support Kerry.

We get disruptors here. Sometimes people react harshly. My advice - take what is helpful to you from this and any other board, and leave the rest.

[OnTheFence]

30. Thanks Yardwork

I do appreciate the help. I did see your post with the list and will read it carefully. I do understand that there are people that post that just want to vent. In this political climate it can be difficult to get to the facts on either side and it tends to blind those that are partisan. In fact I was a registered Democrat and a registered Republican at different times in my life and shared that same intense passion for politics until I became an independent 8 years ago. Now at age 43 I just want to support the candidate that convinces me that he is qualified and capable of performing the job. I have found that I can't vote based on the core principles of either party. I have to base my vote on the past performance and record of an individual. Its the only measure I know of to predict a persons future performance. A another consideration is the impact his performance might have on future events I.E Foreign relations, Health care, Education. I'm kinda of a big picture kind of guy.


Thanks again.

OnTheFence

Rob Young
Orlando Florida

[gatlingforme]

36. Great, I take back my bantor, I appologize

[gatlingforme]

18. Take the initiative and find out who you like, Kerry is the best. vote

for him because I told you so. How's that. In my opinion he is the best. I think there is a forum that suits your disinterest it's Iamtoolazy.com.

[0rganism]

19. Hey, take your own challenge -- tell us what you know about the candidates

You don't have to be thoughtful or articulate, and I'll give you more than 15 seconds. How about a minute for each candidate? Can you do it?

[yardwork]

24. Welcome to DU - thank you for asking!

Ten conservative reasons to vote for Kerry:

1. John Kerry has a realistic plan to develop alternative energies to reduce the United States' dependence on foreign oil.

2. John Kerry has a realistic plan to increase the number of Americans who can afford health care insurance and get access to needed health care.

3. Increasing the number of Americans with access to health care will save our country billions of dollars that is now spent on crisis care, emergency room care, lost productivity, disability, and reduced lifespans.

4. John Kerry will protect our environment so that future generations don't have to spend billions of dollars cleaning up the water and air to make it useable.

5. Protecting the environment is cost-effective. Clean air and water cost less to use than dirty air and water. Clean parks and waterways attract tourism to parts of the country that need the money.

6. John Kerry has a plan to provide tax breaks to businesses that keep their industry here in the United States instead of sending it abroad.

7. John Kerry has a plan to protect the current tax levels for middle-income Americans who make up the huge majority of our people, while asking those with incomes in the top 1% of income brackets to go back to the tax levels they had three years ago, when our economy was booming and the wealthy had plenty of disposable income.

8. John Kerry's proposals will reduce America's current budget deficit - the highest in history - and reduce America's staggering debt burden.

9. John Kerry proposes to increase benefits for active-duty military, their families, and veterans.

10. John Kerry served his country with honor and courage during another unpopular war, so he understands the costs of war.

[OnTheFence]

32. Questions

Yardwork,

Thanks for the effort. I wasn't aware of all of these positions. I do have a few questions and comments.

You wrote:

(1. John Kerry has a realistic plan to develop alternative energies to reduce the United States' dependence on foreign oil.)

My Comment and Question:

I have been on board with this since the late seventies. It has been promised by presidents in the past. What alternative sources is he considering and what is the cost for the initial infrastructure i.e refitting gas lines and pumps? What impact does it have on current EPA laws? What is the realistic time line for rolling this out. What is the tax burden going to be?

You Wrote:

2.3. combined)John Kerry has a realistic plan to increase the number of Americans who can afford health care insurance and get access to needed health care. Increasing the number of Americans with access to health care will save our country billions of dollars that is now spent on crisis care, emergency room care, lost productivity, disability, and reduced lifespans.

My Comment: This is a big nut to crack and important to all. I would like to see his plan. Do you have link I can view? My view on this is I am in favor of his plan if it includes reforms for Trail lawyers and excess law suits and suffering awards - Legislation reform for Insurance and pharmaceutical companies. These are tough for both parties because of the huge lobbyist they employ. Also if increasing the number of Americans with access to health care means a government program the original costs are still there. They are just absorbed and paid for by the tax payers. There is also a cost associated with the administration of that program. I think a combination of a government program and reform might work.


Well Its getting late but I will respond tomorrow on the rest. Thanks for all the help.

[Khephra]

21. Self deleted

[progressivebydesign]

33. I found this very compelling...

.. I wondered for a moment, if the GOP thugs would turn this to their advantage.. but just like Kerry's war record, it is what it is. I think the story is even more reason to choose Kerry. He kicked ass, and this guy is admitting it. Sad, truly sad, when a man like that.. who was firing upon Kerry and his fellow brothers, and was fired upon, EVEN notices that Americans are screwed up for questioning Kerry's medals and bravery. What does that say about America?

[Khephra]

34. "Sad, truly sad, when a man like that.. "

My thoughts EXACTLY.

[0rganism]

35. a man like that...

...has more honor in his left pinky toe than the entire RNC put together.

...understands what it means to fight like hell for his country, putting life and limb on the line.

...could have been an ally of the USA, had we not put our national priorities on supporting French imperialism in the '50s.