Bush's camp may cut 1 debate

[Judi Lynn]

Bush's camp may cut 1 debate


Billy House
Republic Washington Bureau
Sept. 3, 2004 12:00 AM


NEW YORK - Could Tempe find itself the odd location out for the upcoming presidential debates?

President Bush's campaign won't say for sure whether he will agree to the three debates proposed by the independent Commission on Presidential Debates, or if a Republican strategist was right this week when he said the Bush campaign would agree to only two debates.

The commission, without a formal agreement by the Bush camp, set debates for Sept. 30 in Coral Gables, Fla.; Oct. 8 in St. Louis; and Oct. 13 in Tempe. A vice presidential debate between incumbent Dick Cheney and Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's running mate, North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, was set for Oct. 5 in Cleveland.

GOP strategist Scott Reed was quoted by the Reuter news agency this week as saying the Bush camp's position is that "two debates are sufficient and will not dominate the entire fall schedule."
(snip/...)

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0903gop-notebook03.html

[pinniped]

1. Chickenhawk and chickenshit.

* is scared, no question about it.

------
"two debates are sufficient and will not dominate the entire fall schedule."------

[cthrumatrix]

30. they should be scared.... 60% of the country see's thru the BS

[acmavm]

2. I would not be surprised if eventually there's only one debate. Maybe

even none. You know what a busy man bush* is, protecting the country all all.

This year he faces a man who isn't afraid of his pathetic lying whiny ass. There will be no 'gentlemanly' behavior in the trenches. And that's got to be what scares him. It started last night with Kerry/Edwards in Springfield. Gave bush* a preview of what he can expect. And his record during Viet Nam (as well as Cheney's) was front and center in that speech. Bush has way too much to keep hidden. He's been successful for a long time, but the wheel's are about to come off the buggy, so to speak. And it's his (and KKKarl's) fault. He wanted a fight, he's gonna get one.

[Kierkegaard]

19. I would say they probably won't happen at all.

I mean, Borscht has important vacation time to get in(my God, he's only taken 250 days off in the last 4 years) before he is escorted out of the White House and hopefully, into the BIG house.

[whalerider55]

31. don't confuse...

a fight with a pre-emptive, unilateral character assasination. that is what * wanted, and what he apparently won't get.

whalerider55

[Lerkfish]

34. I predicted no debates at all to coworkers in January.

The ONLY reason the shrub "performed well" in the last debates was because the bar was lowered so far they had to remove the flooring and several substrates of bedrock to make room for him to crawl under it.

:)

[jkshaw]

71. Good point Lerkfish ...

On the Daily Show Kerry said to Jon that Bush "debates well." I wish that EVERYONE in the Kerry campaign talks up the fact that "Bush is a good debater" so that THIS TIME the bar will be up there where it belongs. THEN Bush can fall on his face up on the floor instead of crawling out from under the bedrock.

http://www.dragongoose.com

[rfranklin]

3. Bush is chickenshit...

because he knows he can't memorize enough talking points to make him seem informed and intelligent. Then again, this may be a typical Rove ploy to make Bush look heroic when he accedes to a third debate despite his busy schedule of being the "peace" president...er...the "war" president....er...
"won't get fooled again!"

[Noxmtbnk]

56. Hahah!!! (n/t)

[union_maid]

4. They should hold it anyway

If Bush doesn't show, then Kerry can discuss the issues alone. I wouldn't have a problem with that.

[MaineDem]

5. I agree (nt)

[ElWood]

13. Me either (nt)

[Citizen Daryl]

18. Kerry vs. Empty Podium

I know the powers-that-be wouldn't go for it, but I think that'd be AWESOME.

[physioex]

65. Great idea...Make it a Townhall meeting of sorts....

And have it in the battle ground states...teheheheheh

[Lugnut]

66. I'm with you

Not that it would happen but I'd love to see John Kerry and an empty stool on TV. Even if chickenshit chickenhawk shows up it will still be an empty stool.

[Tight_rope]

6. CHICKENHAWK MOTHERFUCKER!

[Leilani]

7. This is typical Rovian tactic

play hard to get, so Kerry team will fold on all debate arrangements,

just to get debates.

Hope they do not fall for this crap.

[trotsky]

25. If the Kerry campaign holds firm,

this is a win-win situation. Either we get all the debates we want, or the Bushies look really bad. Or both. :)

[wildeyed]

27. Rovian?

I think it is just good negotiation strategy. Ask for more than you think you can get and then negotiate downward.

Hopefully the Kerry team will flip it on them and make them look like the chickenshits that they are.

edit sp

[gristy]

8. No surprise here

I was just thinking this morning that bush is nuts to agree to any debates. He showed last night that with his medication optimized, he can read a speech, but nfw is he going to benefit from any debate.

[George W. Dunce]

10. I'll Translate for you

In other words ..."We would like to minimize the damage done to our candidate by the people see just what an imbecile he really is"

[Vladimir]

9. I would not dismiss Bush so quickly

in the context of the debates. The point of the debates is to get across to the undecideds, and that may have more to do with presentation and how the media spin it than the content of the debate. Even within the debate - look, Bush is an idiot but his message is so simple that even an idiot could deliver it. "I was sent by god. There is evil out there. I will protect you." And that plays better than we sometimes like to admit to ourselves...

Of course it is true that Bush would probably prefer no debates at all, but that is almost beside the point. If Kerry doesn't destroy him in the first debate, I don't think 100 debates will help.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. Bush has abandoned the undecideds. His strategy: massive get out the base.

Bush is pinning everything on his base.

Kerry has a secure base. He can woo the undecideds, and pound Bush's base. Peel the fiscal conservatives away from Bush's social conservatives.

[Hotdiggitydog]

15. Debate info....

Commission on Presidential Debates Announces Formats for 2004 Debates

http://www.debates.org/pages/news_040617.html


June 17, 2004

The Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD) today announced formats for its 2004 debates. Dates and sites for these debates were announced on November 6, 2003 as follows:

First presidential debate:

Thursday, September, 30, 2004
University of Miami
Coral Gables, FL

Vice presidential debate:

Tuesday, October 5, 2004
Case Western Reserve University
Cleveland, OH

Second presidential debate:

Friday, October 8, 2004
Washington University in St. Louis
St. Louis, MO

Third presidential debate:

Wednesday, October 13, 2004
Arizona State University
Tempe, AZ

Format

The candidates will be seated at a table with the moderator in the first and third presidential debates and in the vice presidential debate.


The second presidential debate will use the town meeting format in which undecided voters, selected by the Gallup Organization, will question the candidates.


Each debate will last for ninety minutes, start at 9:00 p.m. ET, and take place before a live audience.


The first presidential debate will focus primarily on domestic policy, and the third presidential debate will focus primarily on foreign policy. The town meeting debate and the vice presidential debate will be open to all topics.
Moderators

Each debate will have a different single moderator to be selected by the CPD. The four moderators will be announced no later than September 10.


The moderators job in the first and third presidential debates and the vice presidential debate will be to introduce and change topics, to ensure that the participants have equal time, and to encourage some direct exchange among the candidates. The moderators will select all topics and questions.


In the town meeting debate, the town meeting participants will pose their questions to the candidates. The town meeting participants will review their questions with the moderator before the debate for the sole purpose of avoiding duplicate questions.


The moderators will have discretion to ask follow-up questions in all debates.
Participation in the debates sponsored by the CPD is subject to the application of the CPD's Non-partisan Candidate Selection Criteria for 2004, which were issued on September 24, 2003. They are:

Eligibility under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, which requires that a candidate be at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen of the United States, and a resident of the United States for fourteen years;


Appearance on a sufficient number of state ballots to have a mathematical chance of securing an Electoral College majority in the 2004 general election; and


Fifteen percent support of the national electorate as determined by the average of five national public opinion polls taken as close to the first debate as practicable. The polls to be used will be announced no later than September 10.
The candidate selection criteria will be applied before each debate. If a presidential candidate is eligible for the first presidential debate, his or her running mate will automatically be included in the vice presidential debate.

Coverage of the debates will be provided by members of the White House pool who drew lots to determine the following assignments:

First presidential debate: Fox
Vice presidential debate: ABC
Second presidential debate: NBC

Pool coverage for the third presidential debate has not yet been determined.

[Vladimir]

17. So they will have different topics... that is interesting

in which case I presume the middle debate would be dropped, they definitely won't drop foreign affairs and can't be seen to drop domestic and the economy either. The worst case scenario for Kerry is if they drop the economy debate of course.

[trogdor]

67. Naturally, he blows off the third one.

Subject: Foreign Policy
Host: NBC (nominally the least friendly of the three networks sponsoring the debates).
Candidate interaction: encouraged.

Yep. Chicken George is cancelling the hardest of the three debates. If I were Kerry, I'd be on the horn telling 'em he'll show up regardless of whether George does.

[Vladimir]

73. They are dropping foreign policy?

This I simply refuse to believe. This is some sort of ruse - foreign policy is Bush's safest ground (relative to the other areas), the polls have shown that repeatedly.

[Mokito]

74. That's interesting.

The second debate will be town meeting hall style. If anything, I strongly believe that * wants to get rid of this specific debate. He wont get to handpick the audience that asks the questions on this occasion. And I just know anti-bush voters and protesters will flock to this debate, asking the tough questions.

[liberalcanuck]

23. Great points. It's very worrisome that most of the populace don't

seem to want details.

Wasn't the RNC something else? They acted as if this idiot was the Son of God or something. Methinks The Passion has really made them nuts!

[Vladimir]

24. They are crazy but at the same time

they aren't doing that badly all things considered. For Rove to keep Bush in the low 50s with his performance on the economy and Iraq is astounding.

[wildeyed]

29. I tend to agree with you.

Bush has done well in debates in the past. His style is 'folksy' while Kerry can come across as patrician.

In my experience, most indy/undecideds don't understand the issues and don't care to. They just vote for who seems nicest on TV. :crazy:

[Ilsa]

38. I think you are right, though, Vlad...

Bush should not be underestimated in this. He is as devious as he is illiterate, and he will dumb-down and play to people's emotional side to bring out the base and maybe catch a few undecideds. The presentation will mean everything, and frankly, I don't put it past them to do something dirty to Kerry to make him look as bad as Nixon did when he debated JFK.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

54. I agree

We may think that Bush sounds and looks stupid when he has to answer unscripted questions, but it doesn't appear that the average person or the media is all that critical of his performance. I fully expect Bush to bomb a debate and the media to think he did fairly well. Probably lots of 'he stayed on message' spin when all he did was parrot the same couple of lines to every question.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. Bush says I don't wanna debate. Send Cheney.

Bush is all hat, no cattle.

[moondust]

14. C'mon George. Let's see that STRONG LEADER in action.

You've never lost a debate, George, remember? You can debate circles around that poor Kerry guy. Let's see the "War President" get up and deliver another catastrophic success! You're an elder statesman now. It's only a few hours out of the next two months. Please Mr. President, please...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. Since the Salon Allison interview, you have to believe that they

are scared shitless by the thought of someone off the Soma being able to share the stage with Dim-son.

[Enraged_Ape]

20. Bush is and always has been a lily-livered, pants-wetting COWARD

Wimp.
Pussy.
Chickenshit.
Lily-livered, spineless, gutless, weak-kneed little titty-baby.

How can ANYONE stand him?

[Lerkfish]

35. hey now! he took on a pretzel empty handed...and...err...lost. nt

[Gunit_Sangh]

21. Kerry should make this statement

The he (Kerry) will allow cheney to accompany * in the third debate if that will get him to accept all three.

[Smarmie Doofus]

44. Exactly!

That's it in a nutshell.

Paul

[Snellius]

22. Bush tried to back out on debating Gore too.

Remember when he wanted a more friendly, "talk show format" for the debates and, when Gore refused, accused his opponent of going back on his promise to debate him anytime anywhere?

[Judi Lynn]

26. You have to sneer when you remember he wanted to do one or more

debates on the Larry King Show. Oh, my god.

He probably knew they could control the program there.

[Career Prole]

50. King talked debates with shrub when he had the interview a few weeks

back...King asked him to agree to the debate schedule right there in the interview and monkey-boy dodged the request.

KING: Are you going to sign off on the debate days?

G. BUSH: Do what now?

KING: They've signed -- Kerry has agreed to the debate days.

G. BUSH: Oh good.

KING: Have you agreed yet to those four dates? One vice presidential, three presidential.

G. BUSH: I'm sure we have. There will be debates. I don't think you have to worry about that.

KING: You can pick the dates and times, but last I heard, the White House hadn't signed off yet? Sign off tonight.

G. BUSH: I'll be there to debate.

KING: Sign off, you'll show up.

G. BUSH: Well, I don't have -- frankly, to be honest with you, I don't have any idea what the dates are. But I'm confident we'll have the debates.

KING: The three debates and the vice presidential.

G. BUSH: There will be debates.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0408/12/lkl.00.html

[Judi Lynn]

51. Thanks for the link to the transcript! He really sidestepped the issue

of three pResidential debates, didn't he? They'd probably have to take him kicking and screaming to three. He doesn't have the stamina, not to mention the intelligence.

If he slips out of the debates, it should weigh heavily against him. He'd be AWOL again.

[Career Prole]

64. I just hope the campaign gets the word out early and often

about just how many times shrub lied in the 2000 debates. When you read the transcripts to them you have to keep reminding yourself who's speaking, because there's so little resemblance between that bush and the bush we're stuck with now.

http://www.c-span.org/campaign2000/transcript/index.asp

[snippy]

28. Kerry should say that Bush probably has to go on vacation.

He also should say that it is okay if Bush wants to bring Cheney with him to the debates.

[omshanti]

32. HAH! I called this a month ago!

They'll raise the "terra 'lert" and use it as an excuse to cancel the second debate, and find some other excuse to cancel the third one, or force it to be in such a format that the questions are pre-submitted and pre-rehearsed.

It continues to amaze me how millions and millions of people continue to be in denial as to what an IDIOT Dubya is.

[kikiek]

33. The democrats need to attack them on this. Ask them what

they are afraid of that they don't want to debate. They are denying the voters the best forum for hearing positions on the major challenges facing our country today. Debates are how we know what the plans are for dealing those challenges. Go after them!

[MikeG]

36. Kerry should ignore this issue. Or he'll look desperate. Say nothing.

[yellowcanine]

49. Exactly right. Kerry has accepted the schedule. Let Bush explain why he

hasn't. The media has a vested interest in debates so hopefully they won't give Bush a pass on this one.

[Walt Starr]

37. BRAWK!!!!

BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!
BUSH IS A COWARD!!!


Chickenshit coward!!!!

[Plaid Adder]

39. Even one debate will be too many for this guy.

I don't see why he thinks it'll help to go down from three to two. He can't even articulate a position when he's by himself on a podium with a teleprompter; there's no way debating is not going to be a disaster.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[warrior1]

40. what are you?

yeller?

[truthisfreedom]

46. according to his rush limpbutt interview his idea of "not articulating" is

saying "i don't think we can win the war on terror" instead of saying "we can win the war on terror."

he actually said "i don't think i articulated well enough" when speaking to rush by phone... a shortcut to his "huddled masses."

[citizen]

41. While it's probably not a big deal,

a third debate would increase the chances of a Bush meltdown on national television, something I dream about frequently.

Hopefully, that will occur in the FIRST debate if the moderator has any balls. Let's lobby for John Stewart as moderator!

[MarianJack]

42. Yes, * is a MORON,...

... but remember that the "guddam libril mejia" will protect him.

To prove my point, Gore tears perot's heart out in 1993 and the media praises him to no end. He then does essentially the same thing to * in 2000 & the media portrays him as a bully.

The way they are gushing over the just concluded NYC hate fest shows that they are going to be in FULL * PROTECTION MODE for the next 2 months.

Our word of mouth will NEVER be more important than it is NOW!

Let's kick asses & take names. At the same time, if anybody can tell me just what the hell that saying is supposed to mean, I'd be greatful!

On edit: a little correction of *ist spelling & grammar!

[Smarmie Doofus]

43. Kerry vs. Bush *AND * Cheney!

If Senator Kerry's advisors have an ounce of imagination they will direct him to offer to debate Bush and Cheney SIMULTANEOUSLY.

A good away to underscore W's reluctance,timidity and inadequacy... not to mention his infamous and child-like dependence on the VP.

Alas... imagination is something that the Dems seem always to be short on. It looks as though they're gonna run the Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, and Gore playbook yet again.

Interview with newly-appointed campaign honcho (Clinton holdover by the name of ...Rappaport ?) on Today Show this a.m. makes me nervous, frankly.

Getta clue, guys... negative campaigning works. You can't win... in the vast majority of cases... by remaining "above the fray" or taking the high road... or " staying on message" while the other side is spreading misinformation and playing the corporate media like a piano.

The "undecideds" may feel sorry for a high-minded "victim" but, it seems obvious, they will not vote for one.

Kerry should be kicking this guy's a** up and down the street in a million different ways over a hundred different issues.

Ditch the playbook, folks. It's getting old.

Paul

[gulliver]

60. I like the way you think!

Cool idea!!

[Fleshdancer]

45. BUSH CAN RUN, BUT HIS RECORD CAN'T HIDE

Come on Bush, don't be such a debating girly man! hahahahah

[Swamp Rat]

47. I knew it! I knew it! I knew it!!!

I knew they were going to back out of the debates. Watch, they'll find an excuse to limit it to one debate or two very short debates... or none at all due to the October surprise.

They know that they cannot win an honest election... what will Bush&Co foist upon us?

[yellowcanine]

48. The Bushes don't like debates - Poppy Bush tried this in 92 and it

ended up costing him when he found himself arguing with a protester in a chicken suit at a campaign stop. Then his campaign caved and he got creamed - particularly in the second debate where the audience asked questions and "Mr Education President" got caught looking at his watch. Oh sweet memories! Now Shrub has put James Baker in charge of debate "negotiations" even though both political parties ate supposedly committed to follow the debate format ot the debate commission - which the Kerry campaign has agreed to, btw. As for "dominating the fall schedule", little Scotty is engaging in a little Bush-serving hyperbole with that one and would be called on it if our "unbiased" media would do their job.

[SoCalDem]

52. Cancel Tempe.. Terror alert for one debate = cancelled

and "important international crisis somewhere" = cancel the remaining one..

I doubt if there will be ANY debates..and would not be terribly surprised if "something" happens to foul up election day..

[PATRICK]

53. Repeating 2000

That means Bush has only to survive the first to spin and thrive in the second. The last time the faithful dominated the audience of the second, giving Gore a punishing base-uplifting followthrough to whatever spin and negativity accrued from the first which more swing voters and Dems saw.

Judging the effect of media spin on the first in giving Bush a push and sowing doubt among Dems and swing voters, the SECOND debate is generally
known only through the filter of media spin and the theory is I suppose this is to repeat the strategy of last time.

According to their theory it simply does not matter who Bush's opponent is so long as the response structure is controlled. Of course that is not simply preference but dire necessity for Dubya.

A third debate gives Kerry more persistence to counter this fakery and maybe get discouraged or spun voters back to the tube to see for themselves. Since it could very well happen that a third debate would sink the spin and finish Bush, it simply won't be allowed.

The Kerry camp should also be working to defeat the spin factor and pump up audiences for the SECOND debate to spoil the plan. Since it will be EXPECTED that Kerry must do it all in the first debate, the cards are stacked against perfection. Performance must ensure people get to accept Kerry and rally to his issues and not simply be a game to see if that fraudulent joke can pull off something in some empty sporting sense. One real performance showcase of Kerry's genuineness, the other a frivolous gamesmanship of media spin and doctored expectations as if only Bush's manly mouth can erase the dismal past and dark future or make them irrelevant enough to squeak by.

Gore, like Carter, were assured they could slaughter their addled opponents- and did- and lost the personality perception spin. Somehow they assumed they were on fair or even favored ground. The Kerry people have to remember this is not a high school debate and anything they say can be interpreted any way the media chooses, any fact ignored, any statement picked apart, points assigned by the worst and smarmiest of standards. The Bush camp knows what the real game is and it isn't arguing the facts. Thank God Bush is so lousy and his record so indefensible. It would be extra special if Kerry could somehow force the media's hand in the spin department. That would happen with something that would energize viewer support with a memorable bit of forceful drama and/or undercut predictable pro-Bush spin.

Not that it matters. By and large Kerry and his people are very good at what they do. It is not of a question(as with terrorists needing only to succeed once) that Kerry need only stumble once to outweigh all the horrors, past present and future of Bushco. We keep presenting that to the GOP like some wimpy Achilles' heel. It is time to start acting like legitimate winners, because that is what we are now and the Kerry camp is better at the game than most past Dem challengers.

We shouldn't let ourselves by dancing to the fraud's music.

[Stuckinthebush]

55. This is great!

Kerry can use this to his advantage in so many ways.

"I am at a loss when trying to understand the President's logic here. With the most important presidential election of our life times on the line, how can the President surmise that two debates are enough?"

"Mr. President, I will be at three locations to debate you and discuss our differences for the future. I and the American voters encourage you to show up for these debates."

"The President is a skilled debater and has won just about every debate he has ever attended. I don't understand why he would be nervous about debating me three times. Most Americans feel that three times is a minimum, not a maximum. Mr. President, please prioritize these debates so the American voter can be more clear about our vastly different positions."

"Innuendo, deceit, and mis-truths have been the campaign methods of choice for the Bush Administration. Clearly, more debates will allow the voter to hear the truth from both sides whereas fewer debates will limit that valuable opportunity. Mr. President, let us give the voters real reasons to vote for us instead of allowing shadowy 527s to misrepresent the other side."

Any of those will do.

[GaryL]

57. The Bushit camp is full of pussies.

:kick:

[depakid]

58. Bush is a coward

He needs to be painted as one. Al Gore managed to do that in 2000 to get Bush to agree to debate. Kerry could too- if his own advisors would stop being so timid themselves.

[LSK]

59. i guess Kerry will not sign a loyalty oath...

[tokenlib]

61. Time to dust off the chicken suits from '92

The return of CHICKEN GEORGE!! How exciting! We can have a lot of fun with this if it is true.

[struggle4progress]

62. Gutless. Yellow-striped. eom

[RetroLounge]

63. Chickenhawk and chickenshit

that about sums it up...

RL

[JDPriestly]

70. That means Kerry should up the ante.

Lincoln and Douglas had seven debates. At the end, everyone knew what each candidate stood for and could decide which one was the best leader. Kerry should ask for seven debates.

Also, Kerry and Bush should use the same rules as Lincoln and Douglas did. One speaker opens, the other speaker responds, and the first speaker rebuts -- seven times. That is the format for a real debate that tests the speakers' character, conviction and ability to think on their feet. Allowing the press to butt in with their questions just aggrandizes the press and does not test the debaters' ability to set an agenda.

[w4rma]

68. BushCo would like to cut them all. I'm sure they'll try. (nt)

[kayell]

69. During WW I people who were considered cowards were sent or

given feathers. Perhaps we could mail some to *. A few thousand down pillows might be about right.

[devinsgram]

72. Wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp wimp

coward coward coward coward coward coward coward coward coward coward

sorry these are only letters I have on keyboard.