Fla. Poor Can't Afford to Flee Hurricane

[Rose Siding]

FORT PIERCE, Fla. -- Charles and Laura Willis sat on a blanket in a high school hallway Friday because they had nowhere else to go to get away from Hurricane Frances. With a beat-up car and no money to even board up their house, they probably couldn't have gotten there anyway.

"Believe me, if I had any money I wouldn't be sitting here. I'd be sitting in a motel somewhere," said Laura Willis, 42, who works sporadically at $5.15 an hour cleaning up construction sites to supplement her husband's disability check.

In this depressed fruit- and vegetable-producing area, sharecropper shacks are a thing of the present. About 11,000 of Fort Pierce's 38,000 residents live in poverty, according to the Census.

Elnora German sat outside the shelter at Westwood High, her head in her hands, her face etched with worry. The 67-year-old disabled woman had left her slate-sided home utterly unprotected from Frances.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-frances-too-poor-to-leave,0,4229296.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[RevCheesehead]

1. Where are the Compassionate Conservatives? n/t

[BlueMole]

6. Feeding at the trough

[saigon68]

72. The HALLIBURTON Public Trough

Yikes

[atreides1]

12. Didn't You Hear

They were in New York City, attending all those after nomination parties. No time for those in need, and that money should be used for those great tax cuts.

Remember the Reagan mantra, the homeless are that way because they want to be.

[crossroads]

69. I read 38 Rep delegates to the RNC from La. signed up to feed homeless

while in NYC and only 7 showed up at the soup kitchen! Pretty sad commentary on their token show of compassionate conservatism...
:eyes:

[anarchy1999]

46. This is "Compassionate Conservatism", don't you know?

Oh and by the way, Welcome to DU. How did you find it?

[MercutioATC]

2. And....?

There are free shelters to go to. What else should be done, free bus tickets and lodging??

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Wow that's compassionate

HOW ABOUT A FUCKING LIVING WAGE???

[MercutioATC]

9. That'd be great, but it's not the issue.

It's unfortunate that these people are facing what they are. They still own houses. They still have safe places to go during natural disasters. We're supposed to be outraged that their car is old and they can't pay for a motel? I'm sorry, I sypmathize, but I'm not outraged.

[fishnfla]

15. Have you ever been to Ft Pierce?

Have you ever even heard of the place? I've been there plenty, there aint much. And the cracker klansman aint gonna let the haitians in the schools that are shelters, both sides know that.

You have no idea what its like there, so be quiet.

[XanaDUer]

23. Exactly...

Fl is not a nice place to live unless you have a LOT of bucks.

[MUSTANG_2004]

28. To the contrary

Florida is a *wonderful* place to live, money or not. I'm not sure at all why you say you need money to live in Florida, as the cost of living here is quite reasonable.

[XanaDUer]

35. Well,

the cost of living used to be reasonable, I will give you that.

However, FL is a right to work, work at will state, and prices have been going up and up, unless you live out in the boonies with very little chance of employment.

Also, one good thing about florida, and that is keeping it from suffering under the double-whammy of the Bush Boys, is the almost total lack of social services. So, when the economy tanks, I guess you don't feel the squeeze as much, since you cannot miss what you never had.

Fl basically has a service/tourist economy, and while that can be a good thing is some ways, it is not always the best for the rank-and-file workers.

Actually, with enough money, anyplace is good to live.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. These are people hanging on by a fucking thread

Owning a structure you don't have the funds to keep up becomes a liability at some point. Your post is a symbol not just of what is wrong with America but what is wrong with the Democratic party. These people are the salt of the earth laborers...they USED to be able to count on us to be outraged when disaster struck and they were left fucked. One should NOT have to be rich to be able to protect themselves in a pending storm. It is indeed the issue.....your let them eat cake attitude is more becoming of the crap we had to puke through the last 4 nights on TV.

And I would bet my hat, my ass and my overcoat that what you call a house probably looks a lot more like a shot gun shack given the poverty described in that article. My years of working with labor..particularyl FARM labor have made me aware of what is called a "house" in an agricultural community.

[faithnotgreed]

82. right on. many truly have not one idea what reality is for people

who have been left far far behind...... and many more dont want to know either

God help us

[Sugarbleus]

87. Very........Well..........Stated!! ...........Bravo!!

My sentiments exactly. There is an alarming rise in this country, of groupthink; this groupthink has developed a very, dark, and hardened heart towards fellow mankind. It will be humanities downfall.

NOW SERVING: Barbarism anyone??

[David Zephyr]

Amen, NSMA.

A living wage to start with. And some compassion from our own would be encouraging, too.

This story just depressed the hell out of me.

[MercutioATC]

32. Yes, definitely a living wage.

It just appears that some people seem to think that we can ALL have the same options open to us. That's simply not true. Some people start life at a severe disadvantage. Some are born to money and influence. Some strive and fail. Some succeed despite their complete lack of effort.

You're never going to have a completely level playing field in this country, and I'm not sure that's a bad thing. What I DO believe in is making sure that ALL citizens are provided with the basic needs (a living wage, health care, education, etc.). Beyond that, I don't think the government has responsibility to provide anything other that emergency services for those in need.

[yardwork]

76. The Fl and US government fails at everything you mention

There is no living wage, health care, education, or etc. for the poor in Florida or anywhere else in the USA.

[MercutioATC]

80. Yes, I know. That's not the issue.

I was speaking of the government's responsibility to provide services beyond those. I'm not denying that they're not even providing that.

[Misunderestimator]

5. You're kidding right?

[Misinformed01]

8. If you aren't kidding

then you are an asshole.

Please advise, because I need to know whether or not to use the "ignore" feature; you are screwing with my warm 'n fuzzy DU experience.

[MercutioATC]

14. Better use the "ignore".

I just can't see why I'm supposed to be outraged by a story about somebody with an old car and no money for a hotel who chooses to spend a few days in a safe, free shelter while a hurricane blows through. What's the actual issue here, that some people have less than others? Well, yeah.

I'm all for a living wage. I believe that none of us are at our best until we've made sure that everybody has their basic need provided for. That said, beyond providing safe shelter from natural disasters, I don't see what short-term responsibility the government has to people caught in the path of a storm.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. The government has a duty to RESPONSIBLY manage the economy

so that essentials are AFFORDABLE for the masses....otherwise only the rich can board up their fucking homes. :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

22. The government doesn't control prices....

How does "responsible" government management of the economy change the price of plywood?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Uh....oil wars.....allowing oil companies to manipulate the price of gas

wheich then raises the price of goods to market...allow jobs to be shipped overseas thereby creating unemployment which drives wages down...are you getting it now?

[MercutioATC]

41. That's called a free market and we all support it.

Yeah, it's a bitch sometimes, but it's also the system that employs 94.5% or us (the other 5.5% being unemployed). It's certainly not without fault and it always could stand improvement, but it works better that most systems.

Just out of curiousity, what practical fixes do you suggest?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

48. No it's not called the free market when a handful of companies

have a monopoly and can price fix...pretend refineries are out when they take them out of production a and set prices with little regulatory oversight.

I understand you think your platitudes are logical but they aren't...nice try.

[MercutioATC]

56. We're still the ones that make it happen.

The "handful of companies" couldn't exist without our patronage. This isn't about the "evil corporations". It's about us.

That's not pleasant to deal with, but it's not a platitude. It's fact.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

59. No the handful of companies WOULD exist..you got another source

to fill your car? How do you propose putting gas in your car without oil companies?

[MercutioATC]

60. Are you really worried about pump prices for the average person?

They're insgnificant...and they fluctuate.

That aside, fuel prices aren't high at all. Most of the world pays MUCH more than we do. Gasoline is actually a bargain.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. This is totally off topic...but if you add what we pay in subsidies for

these companies and federal taxes for oil wars, we actually pay a hell of a lot more per gallon than what we pay at the pumps...our gov't just masks it better.

[MercutioATC]

63. Granted, but we don't pay $4.00/gallon. That's what much of Europe pays.

Let's just agree that pump prices aren't a real issue here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

65. You're the one who made emergency services about the free market

my point was that people could not get away as there is a gas shortage in Florida after their tax free month. My other point was that overall costs to consumers for things such as plywood have gone up due to gouging after the last hurricane and shortages since businesses couldn't keep up with stocking construction supplies and it was costing them more to get those supplies due to the increased costs of shipping associated with the fluctuations of prices we've seen this year. Pump prices DO RAISE prices for consumers...especially on goods shipped via TRUCKS.

[MercutioATC]

67. Now you're talking about something other than pump prices...

Yes, I'll agree that fuel costs have an impact on more than pump prices. I just have yet to see where added fuel cost has EVER made something prohibitively expensive for anybody in an emergency. Say fuel costs added 10% to the cost of plywood (and they didn't). Are you saying that somebody that needed to board up their house could afford $15/sheet of plywood but not $16.50?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

70. If you're making 5.15 an hour it can make all the difference

If you need 20 sheets of plywood that's an extra 30 bucks, no?

[Heddi]

75. Plywood during a hurricane is JUSTas much an emergency service

as is providing the school gym as a shelter.

When a river is about to crest and a town is threatened with flooding, the city or state will provide sandbags for people living in low-lying areas.

They don't make the citizens go out and BUY the sandbags (at least in the instances that are my experience). If you wanted to buy your own sand and make more sandbags, you were free to do that, and most people did. But those who couldn't at least had SOMETHING.

During a hurricane, it's just as vital to have plywood to at least board up your windows. I mean, that's not a heavy thing to ask the government to provide to people who can't buy or afford it.

These people are poor. Below poverty level poor. They probably don't have homeowner's insurance because they can't afford it. So if their windows get blown out and they've got 8 hours of steady rain pouring in and everything they have is ruined, WHAT DO THEY HAVE? They have NOTHING.

Why should they have to face not only a hurricane, but possible prevention of entire loss or partial loss of every single thing they own?

This is beyond living wage and having a crappy car. This is the reality of the AFTERWARDS. You think FEMA gives you a silver platter full of dough after a hurricane? HARDLY. I lived in SC during Hugo and people there were ROYALLY screwed. Of course not the people living in million dollar beach houses who used State Farm to rebuild a 3M replacement.

I'm talking about poor black families in McClellanville whose entire house disappeared around them during the hurricane. Just blew away. Of course plywood isn't going to stop that from happening, but it would stop someone's windows from being broken out by a falling branch, say, and causing extensive water damage inside the home. And there was alot more water and wind damage of that nature than people's homes blowing away around them.

Preventable loss is what the gov't should provide for.

During a natural disaster, the Red Cross doesn't charge people for water. They provide it to people in need. The same should be done for plywood and masking tape---believe it or not, some masking tape on a window won't prevent it from being broken, but it lessens the shattering and subsiquent water damage that comes from that.

And On Edit:

Isn't it more valuable, financially and morally, to spend a few million on plywood for people who may not need it, or shoudln't complain if they don't have it, than it would be for the YEARS of social service and community dependence these people will have after they not only loose their homes, but their jobs (Can't work when you got nowhere to sleep), living in rural communities that don't have a permanent shelter. That don't spend tons of money on Social Services. This isn't about a living wage. This is about LIVING

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

83. You said it better than I ever could

This isn't about a living wage. This is about LIVING

Hear hear :toast:

Living. It's not just for the jet setters

[XanaDUer]

68. The price gouging (Charlie Crist?*) says the gouging

is so bad, they got thousands of calls already.

But, guess that is the free market at work. :eyes:

(*Fl guy who keeps an eye on and punishes price gougers.)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

71. No that's not enough investigators to enforce the law...smaller gov't

due to the idiotic libertarian and Republican mindset...got a consumer oriented law you don't like? Just underfund the regulatory agency that enforces it and VOILA!! No pesky law :D

[XanaDUer]

74. Yup, That's the FLORIDA way...

No kidding. People who move here from other states are shocked by the conditions here. Some move back to their point of origin.

[mom cat]

38. No one is telling you that you have to be outraged and I did see you

say that you have sympathy for their plight. They are likely to not have a house or a shack or a mobile home to return to and worry that everything they own will be gone. Many do not have insurance and are not able to take advantage of emergency loans. Yes they have a temporary shelter to ride out the storm, unlike the victims of our bombings. But the govt should have required building standards to deal with the realities of living in a hurricane zone and regulated the contractors and developers who got rich from putting people in perilous housing. These people deserve our compassion, but so do all of us who have episodes of compassion fatigue.

[MercutioATC]

50. I have family that live on the Outer Banks in N.C.

They know the routine. Sometimes, they have to rebuild.

Do they realize that living on the Outer Banks has this possible outcome? Yes. Do they choose to live there anyway? Yes.

I may have expressed myself poorly. I definitely sympathize. I've had family in the same position many times.

[mom cat]

19. Well Florida ain't Falluga, but the plight of the Floridians in poverty

is no joking matter. I too would appreciate a clarification of the comments in question. I sometimes am so sarcastic that people misunderstand.

[Rose Siding]

10. Luckie Duckies?

Why should that old woman grouse about not being able to afford covering her damn windows! Those 5.15/hour wages save Those People all kinds of income tax. Whatever kind of home that provided wouldn't be worth saving anyway. Can't you find your bootstraps, old crippled woman!/SARCASM

What was the tipping point? When did compassion hit the wall?

[MercutioATC]

20. Where do YOU feel the line should be drawn?

I'm in complete agreement about a living wage.

That aside, what responsibility should the government have to people facing potential natural disasters? I'd say shelter and food, but that's just me. Do we need a free "board-up" service? Do we need free service stations to tune up your "old car" so you can leave town? Do we need to provide free motel stays for people who can drive away but can't afford lodging?

My point is that these people have access to safe, free shelter and food. What else should they be entitled to?

[shraby]

25. It would be a lot cheaper to help

those people board their homes than to help them replace the home once irreparable damage is done to it..not counting what it will cost to provide them shelter until their homes are repaired.

[Rose Siding]

43. And that would fulfill a basic function of govt

"to promote the general welfare"

If the govt had the foresight to stockpile plywood, or provide some kind of timely promotion, and organgize community groups to help the infirm secure their homes, not only would it benefit these low income people, it would save taxpayers nationwide in the long run.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

29. Entitled??? Who said SHIT about entitlement? She makes 5.15 an hour

in a depressed job market. The old woman probably spends her disability checks on inflated medication prices so she can't keep up with ordinary expenses....every case of an individual they have in that article I could run down the list of how THEIR lives have been made harder at the bottom of the totem pole so that Skippy and Ginger and their 1.5 kids and 2.5 tv's can consume cheap crap up the ass while the working class suffers.

Geez...you sound like you could write a fucking CATO institute manifesto.

[MercutioATC]

33. Well, you did.

I'm not saying that I don't sympathize. I just don't see that the government has failed to provide a basic safety net here.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Where did I nention entitlement? Where did I say that?

Besides...in my community when the ocean rears up there are services that help everyone sandbag their neighborhoods...why would it be so hard days before a hurricane comes to organize the boarding of homes with cheap supplies....wouldn't that SAVE FEMA funds in the long run?

[MercutioATC]

44. Yes! That would be a great idea!

What does that have to do with anything I've said?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. all you've basically said is tough shit...I can take the conversation

anywhere

or need I remind you of the compassion you generated that began this lovely warm and fuzzy exchange?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=800349&mesg_id=800364&page=

[MercutioATC]

52. I did express myself poorly.

I didn't mean to show a lack of compassion, I just think that basic services ARE being provided and these people are fortunate to have a safe place to go (no, not because of their income, but because there are many parts of the world where people in the path of hurricanes just die...with no free shelter or food).

At this juncture, I really don't see what else there is to do. Free shelter and food seems to work.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

61. But your principles sound penny wise and pound foolish

These are communities in hurricane's paths...as I said earlier prevention is less expensive than waiting for disaster. I understand there are parts of the world where people suffer more...but your post reminds me of a cartoon from a magazine called BREAD AND JUSTICE that I used to get when I belonged to a multi-faith group dedicated to ending hunger. There are two starving people underneath an American flag and the caption reads "It could be worse. At least we're not poor in the poorest nation in the world."

[MercutioATC]

66. That's my point. These people aren't starving.

Nor are they without shelter. We're providing that. The examples provided were a family with a car who chose not to leave Florida and a woman who owned a house (when many don't) who couldn't afford to board up the windows. Is their situation unfortunate? Yes. I do sympathize with them.

I just don't feel they're a great example of the truly disadvantaged. There are people who don't have the options they do.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

73. But your remedy leaves them more like the less fortunate ones.

Is that a remedy at all? When all is said and done..if they couldn't leave their home protected and can't qualify for govt loans..they'll be homeless too! Is that any remedy at all?

[MercutioATC]

79. Who says they don't qualify for government assistance?

You think Florida won't get more disaster money (if this hurricane doesn't die out, which is a distinct possibility)?

[TahitiNut]

39. (giggle)

Jeez, you're sexy when your passion shows! :yourock:


Here're a few ditto's ... sprinkle 'em wherever you want to show I agree. :loveya:

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. Owwww my head. OVERLOAD!!!

[clydefrand]

3. Does anyone here believe that the consequences of

of natural disasters such as floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. are the will of God?

[TahitiNut]

31. "the consequences"?

Nope. That's been up to us for a long time. We keep getting lessons until we learn them. Then we get the next lesson. I can't wait.

[XanaDUer]

47. The will of god?

The consequences of natural disasters are the will of god?

Well, I would say that natural disasters themselves might be the will of god, or Mother Nature, or fate, or whatever.

But, do you mean that planning for natural disasters or ameliorating the consequences of natural disasters is undoing the work of a higher power?

[Cobalt Violet]

51. NO

I don't.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

84. No consequences where they can be avoided via sensible

public policy and a scintilla of concern for the weaker members of society are the will of Satan....greed, hoarding and lack of concern for your fellow humans fits right into those 7 deadly sins.

[Cyrano]

7. I'm in Palm Beach County right now

and Francis is less that 200 miles east of us.

There are no motels/hotels to go to, even for people who can afford it. The shelters are mostly schools, but you have to bring your own bedding, canned foods, water, medications, whatever.

The only people who have gotten out of here in the last day and a half are those who can afford private planes.

It pretty much sucks right now, 6:52pm, Friday, and there will be storm bands coming in all night.

Still don't know exactly where it's going to hit, but power will probably be gone before the night is over.

While the poor always get screwed more than anyone else, the middle class isn't going to be able to escape this one. But even now, we have criminals here price gouging for gas, water, plywood, etc. Can't be sure, but even under the current scary situation, I can't help but believe that these gougers are Republicans.

(On edit. MercutioATC, just read your posts on this thread. I'm not having a wonderful time. Wish you were here.)

[RevCheesehead]

11. You're in our prayers

Keep us posted, OK?:hug:

[Cyrano]

13. Thanks RevCheeshhead. Will keep in touch as long as I have power.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

21. I'll bet those earning $5.15 an hour....

are paying more in taxes (percentage wise) than many many persons (corporations are persons too or so I've been told) who/that earn 6 figures.

When I was earning $5.00/hr working on a farm.... that didn't have the wherewithal to take out taxes each week... I had to come up with about oh.... $2500 each April.... talk about a pain in the ass.

Anyhoo... I lived there for pert near 30 years... and NEVER had to face anything like what those poor folks are facing today and 2 weeks ago. My heart goes out to them.... their world is being turned upside down... and shaken vigorously. It pretty much sucks way worse than anything that any of us will have to endure for the rest of our lives... unless of course... shrub steals another one.

[samtob]

17. Hang in there

Best wishes for your well being. I certainly hope you fair well.

[Cyrano]

27. Thanks samtob, and welcome to DU

This damn hurricane is stalled off the coast and is only moving at about eight miles an hour. The northern Bahamas are getting mauled, and a good part of the east coast of FL is just waiting.

Nothing else much to do except sit, wait and hope. Nonetheless, even in situations like this, political thoughts don't go away. Somehow, I think that King George is praying it will hit Palm Beach County which is the most democratic area of the state.

Now isn't that strange? Even though I'm here sweating it out, I still can't help but despise that fascist fraud, currently squatting in the White House?

Ummm, the wind just picked up a bit.

[XanaDUer]

26. Hi.

We're in NE FL, and it looks like it *may* just pass us by (the eye, that is).

Sending good vibes to all the people under the gun from this hurricane.

:hi:

[MercutioATC]

36. Thanks for the sentiment. I never said it was a party.

Frankly, that's one of the reasons I live in Ohio...all I have to deal with is the occasional blizzard.

Again, I'm NOT saying that I don't sympathize. I just don't see how the "Republicans" are responsible or how the government isn't meeting the basic natural disaster needs of its citizens.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. And it has been spelled out for you. You refuse to see it.

Hell half the reason they can't get gas is because supplies are low because they just had tax free gas month....who started that? Ten bucks says libertarian morons were behind the ballot initiative....wow...let's not pay taxes on gas for a month...have a fucking free for all in hurricane season and create a gas war on the last day of the month that drains the service stations. DOH!

[fishnfla]

45. Sir you never replied to my post upthread

It is important that you understand the situation on the ground there. These people do not have access to the services as you claim. For one they are not many shelters available there. For two the poor immigrants, blacks and field workers are not welcome to the services.They are shut out, as the local police and agencies are lilly-white

Ohio it aint brother.

[MercutioATC]

53. The people in this article DID have access to shelter.

I DO understand that there are places where this isn't true, but I'm just replying to the article. I may have not put it well, but I do have compassion for these people. I have family that faces these situations regularly (my thread above explains it).

[XanaDUer]

64. Naturally, republicans are not responsible for hurricanes

however, their policies do tend to put more of a burden on those who are the underclass. Not just in FL, either.

Florida is a place where salaries are low, unless you are a doctor, lawyer, or white-collar professional like that. Sadly, many leave their home states to "start over in the Sunshine State", to get here and end up like these poor, sad people in the article. Low-wage, seasonal jobs, without benefits, etc.

Florida is a place where rents are fairly high $600-$900/month in the "cities" where the chances for obtaining a better-paying job are more possible.

Yet, taxes are low for the most part, and there are very little social services. Libraries are underfunded, roads are falling apart except for wealthy communities, schools don't have enough room for the burgeoning population, and even GA pays more to teachers.

Schools are an example. Builders come into a community, build a ton of houses (probably not well-built, either, but that is another story) without doing anything for the infrastructure. Thus, schools are bulging, there are not enough teachers, pay is low for people like teachers, librarians, social workers, roads become clogged, on and on.

So, it is a complex vicious cycle that can make living in places like FL so taxing, excuse the pun, for those who are on restricted incomes.

Salaries are low, taxes are not high, true, there is no real social safety net, yet rent and food and gas are not that cheap. I have lived all over FL and in other parts of the country, and it is not especially cheaper to live in Fl *if* you have to spend your monies on things you need to live, like most of us do.

People are responsible for getting their own plywood for disasters, and things like that, but if you start out in a financial hole, work in a place that keeps you in that hole, and do not have a way to climb out of that hole, then one natural disaster can wipe you out.

[Cyrano]

55. Dear MercutioATC. No one said the Republicans are responsible

for natural disasters. However, the aftermath of natural disasters ARE one of the basic responsibilities of government.

The biggest natural disaster in recent history is 9/11 and Bush, for all practical purposes, said, FUCK NEW YORK.

Firehouses have been closed, the NYPD and FDNY are smaller now than they were on 9/11 because all the funds that were promised never came through. Just last week, Bush re-designated funds away from NY to, ummm, areas of the country that were more likely to vote for him.

Sorry about your having to put up with occasional blizzards. As a native New Englander,(before moving to FL), I've put up with plenty of them, but they're nothing like a hurricane that wipes out your entire life. For all I know, my own home may be gone by tomorrow.

I find your postings on this thread callous and perhaps somewhat cavalier about the plight of those less fortunate in our society. Be thankful for what you have, and try to have a little more understanding of those who have nothing (through no fault of their own).

Yes, government does have a responsibility to our own needy, before they spend $150 billion, to date, on Iraq (a war of choice sold to our imbecile in chief by the war mongering cretins around him).

[MUSTANG_2004]

34. You don't have to "flee"

You just have to get out of the mobile home or away from the low-lying coastal area. If you're in a well-constructed building that's more than a few blocks from the water, you'll ride it out ok.

As far as the free shelters, I'm sure spending the night in them isn't fun, but I'm not sure what you want as the alternative. When a hurricane approaches all the outlying motels fill up, so schools and the like are the only good option for housing huge numbers of people.

[TahitiNut]

42. Maybe those schools should offer vouchers.

:silly: That sounds like a Republican 'plan' to me. That'd be a sure fix, right? Then everyone could stay at the Marriott? Uh-huh. Right. Gee, I wonder why Jeb hasn't proposed exactly that. :freak:

[lazarus]

58. Ever been through a Cat 5 hurricane?

There's a reason they evacuate, instead of saying just stay on dry land out of mobile homes.

[MUSTANG_2004]

81. No.

But I can tell you that they don't evacuate an area even for a Cat 5 (in my case, it isn't even an option. The road system out of Pinellas county could not handle a full evacuation).

Mobile homes and flood zones are the only areas the evacuate.

[lazarus]

89. Yes they do

I grew up on the Gulf Coast, I well remember the evacuations.

[MUSTANG_2004]

91. No, they don't

A quick google did not turn up any examples of a county-wide evacuation. Nor can I recall one, and I've lived on the Gulf Coast over 30 years.

Both personal experience and all of the evacuation information I found on the web indicate the evacuations are focused on flood zones, proximity to the water, and mobile homes.

[lazarus]

94. Interesting

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/01/national/main639937.shtml

"The largest evacuation in state history, with 2.8 million residents ordered inland, sent 70,000 residents and tourists into shelters."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WEATHER/08/13/storms/
"South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford declared a state of emergency and ordered residents and vacationers in two coastal counties to evacuate, the AP reported. State troopers immediately redirected traffic on the main highway leading away from Myrtle Beach."

That took 30 seconds.

[MUSTANG_2004]

96. Interesting indeed.

Your first link simply refers to the large evacuation in Florida. Nobody said a large number of people weren't evacuated (indeed, I was one of the evacuees). It does not contradict my statement that the evacuations were for flood zones, coastal areas, and mobile homes, and were not evacuating large *areas* (i.e. a short drive would take you to a friend's house or a shelter that was outside of the evacuation area).

The second link also doesn't contradict my statement. As the following link shows, the entire counties were not evacuated:
http://www.scgovernor.com/interior.asp?SiteContentId=6&pressid=121&NavId=54&ParentId=0
"NOTE: Gov. Sanford's Mandatory Evacuation Order for Horry and Georgetown Counties applies only to areas east of Highway 17 Business (NOT Highway 17 bypass)."

[lazarus]

97. You just can't admit this, can you?

From my second link:

""I think that if you see where the counties began the process of mandatory evacuation, you will see they were in South Florida," Bush said.

Emergency officials issued evacuation warnings from the Florida Keys up through southwest Florida into the heavily populated Tampa Bay area.

Almost one-third of the area's population, 3 million people, was ordered to evacuate."

From your own link:

"At noon today, Gov. Sanford issued voluntary evacuations for low-lying areas in Beaufort, Colleton and Jasper counties. At 3:00 p.m., the governor expanded voluntary evacuations to cover the entire South Carolina coast."

Mandatory, voluntary, doesn't matter, it's still an evacuation. Anyone hoping to ride out a Cat5 is crazy.

[yardwork]

78. You are mistaken.

A "well-constructed building a few blocks from the water" will not protect a person during a large hurricane. Most people die from flooding. If you don't believe me, google Hurricane Floyd and see what it did for miles inland in North Carolina.

[MUSTANG_2004]

92. You're right, I should have also mentioned

that flood zones are evacuated as well, and they are not necessarily near the coast.

[Cobalt Violet]

54. Doesn't the Government underwrite the insurance ....

On the million dollar homes that will need to be reconstucted after this storm?
No wonder there is never enought for the poor?

[Cyrano]

57. Hurricane update: 8:09pm.

No change. The damn thing is just sitting out there moving at 8 miles an hour and sending in occasional squall lines. This really sucks a lot.

[jackieforthedems]

77. They Should All Be At Jeb's House

Eating a hot meal and tucked into bed at night. Or else he should be roughing it out with them. That's the saddest thing I've heard all day.

[Zan_of_Texas]

86. Since September 10, 2001.....

How many people died in the terrorist attacks in this country?

Under 3000

How many people STARVED in this country?

over 3000 EACH YEAR!

most of them were elderly

--WHO statistics -- latest year (1995: over 3300, 1997: over 3600)

So, should we spend umpti-billion dollars a year to fight terrorism, and lose our elderly to malnutrition? About 10,000 since 9-11?

Shall we read their names, one by one? Shall we wave flags, and stand over their graves?

Why don't we have a damn "war" against people starving?

Ask Boeing, or Northrup, or Raytheon. Because war is profitable. Highly profitable. Feeding people is less so.

We're spending our money, our kids, our global good will on weapons and Heil Bush. Not on things people need. Food. Start with food. A decent wage. Then people can buy stuff. Like plywood.

Parade Magazine -- not known for its leftist tendencies -- even noticed.

April 27, 2003 -- Parade Magazine "Won't You Help Feed Them?"

"In 2001, according to the US Dept of Agriculture, 33.6 million Americans were "food insecure," the government's term for people who sometimes are foced to skip meals or to survive on a diet not nutritious enough to keep a child healthy. Of those Americans, 13 million were children...

...The nation's nutritional safety net is being stretched beyond the breaking point. In 2002, the US Conference of Mayors reported that demand for emergency food had increased in every city surveyed. And more than half of those cities reported that shortages have forced them to reduce the amount of food they provide to each needy family.

The most severe surge in child hunger is striking rural Western states. Oregon leads the nation, with 22% of its children facing food insecurity last year. "From here it feels like we're seeing the beginning of our generation's Great Depression," says Rachel Bristol, executive director of the Oregon Food Bank, a sprawling complex suplying 800 emergency food outlets. "Every day we hear from families that had good jobs last year now living in cars and motels, trying to patch together enough part-time work to feed their children."

Boston Medical Center's Grow Clinic for Children director, Dr. Deborah Frank
"If you're wondering which refugee camps these little guys came out of, most of them live just down the street," Dr. Frank says. She explains that these childen exhibit such problems as decreased attention spans, delayed language development, impaired motor skills and recurring infections. "In the medical mecca of the world, in one of the richest cities in the richest country in the world," she points out, "we running this program like a mission in Africa." "We have the resources, but we don't have the political will to make the most helpless Americans our priority. Our failure to do that is being written on the bodies of children." -- Dr. Frank

[jackieforthedems]

90. Take Care Of This Country's Problems First

I agree. You work all your life in this country and pay into the Social Security system, pay your taxes here, and for what?! When you become sick and old, they want to kick you to the curb and forget about you. I hear what you're saying.

[Tight_rope]

85. And some of these same people will still vote for Bush the new Christ!

Why?...because they maybe against abortion or hate homosexuals. But it's their choice. They know what's most important them.

[Booster]

88. And that's exactly the way Jeb wants to keep it.

If they're not around, they can't vote Democtratic. You may find some of these people with bullet holes in their heads; suicide, don't cha know.

[medeak]

93. just heard from friend in West Palm Beach!

well...she had her daughter contact me as no power all day and only has cell phone.

Reports they are getting hammered. Neighbors on each side of her have lost roof. All day and night still to go. No power expected to be restored for 5 days at least.

This is wonderful woman who has been volunteering at nursing home to feed the 42 patients who were transferred there from hurricane Charley as there is no staff to take care of them.

Think some good thoughts for the good people down there!

[DaveSZ]

95. $5.15 an hour

That's wrong.