Pentagon to check Kerry war record (rage)

[expatriot]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wus05.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/09/05/ixworld.html

In a fresh blow to John Kerry's flagging presidential campaign, the Pentagon has ordered an official investigation into the awards of the Democratic senator's five Vietnam War decorations.



----------------------------

I don't think this is a dupe but this is so, so evil.... I am filled with rage. ALL OF THOSE LIES have been DEBUNKED!!!!

[proud patriot]

1. This is a HUGE MISTAKE and Will BACKFIRE bigtime

their arrogance know no bounds and it will
be their own arrogance that will take them down.

[azmesa207]

27. Investigate Kerry record

Its the Navy that investigating his Silver star it supposedly had a V in they center and it should not have had one Not Kerry Fault It the Navy's

[AlFrankenFan]

32. Agreed n/t

[Kierkegaard]

46. I'm not sure if I agree just yet

but they seem to think they are immune from any backlash and are inching forward with the boldness of their dirty tricks. Eventually people are going to wake up and say "Wait a minute, these guys are f*#%ing monsters!"

[VolcanoJen]

58. Exactly. An old liberal warrior friend of mine told me long ago...

"Don't worry, Jennifer. They always reach too far. Always."

Oh, I hope he's right about that.

[Born Free]

60. Medals are Kerry's "Intern"

Just as the GOP used the infamous blow job to clog up government and hold back progress as much as possible, they are setting up for their
new personal attack squad. This will not go away, Kerry must live with it, just as Clinton did. The GOP can not win on issues they only use personal character attacks, democrats must stand up and refuse to take this laying down again.

[Claire Beth]

66. I have been THINKING all along....

their arrogance will bring them down, but NOTHING seems to do it. I keep hoping SOMETHING will stick to them but nothing seems to.

[leftchick]

2. Well then Kerry needs to challenge the Pentagon for sitting on aWol*s...

COMPLETE record. They have steadfastly refused to release the missing year records. :grr:

[MidwestTransplant]

3. THEY HAVE TO

Anytime a person makes such a request

[earthside]

11. Explanation, Please

I'd like an explanation into your assertion that "they have to" investigate a citizen's military record just because some one makes such a request.

I just doubt that.

[TacticalPeek]

13. Then we should request that they check this chump's medals.

(this was expected from last week: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797685#798072)

[liveoaktx]

37. Anybody? Any person? Can ALL OF US ask that Chimp's record be examined?

[WVhill]

62. That's true. The problem is that for the uninformed it adds credence,

They may only know that there's a controversy about the medals and may have read some of the newspaper articles stating that the swift boat vets lied. The involvement of the Navy may swing some votes. The sad part is I doubt the investigation is finished before the election.

[Zorra]

65. Bu$h Is A DESERTER. Indisputably AWOL. That should mean jail time.

I'm sick of this double standard and I am full on ashamed of what the US Government has become, a vehicle for nazi republicans to attack and smear people while protecting republican criminals from the processes of justice.

There is massive evidence that Bu$h got into the National Guard because of special privileges. There is massive evidence that Bu$h went AWOL from the National Guard during wartime and was never punished for it.

It is long past time for the Pentagon to jail Bu$h for being AWOL.

They don't even need to investigate, they already know he is a Deserter.

[stray cat]

4. How is this not linked to Bush/Cheney cowards

nt

[expatriot]

5. if this is how Bush thinks he can win...

...and if he does win this way... I will be in Washington DC in January. I am in Arizona right now and poor but I will be in January in 2005 filled with so much rage. I will walk to DC.

[wrate]

6. Kerry is not just running against * , he is running against the government

of the U.S. This is quite an example in democracy. Specially coming from the self proclaimed "leader of the free world".

[Pirate Smile]

That should be a Kerry campaign talking point. I like it and it is so

true. Worse than Nixon, hell yes!

[grasswire]

7. how about an investigation into George's ribbons?

Huh?

[havocmom]

9. How 'bout an investigation into spies!

And other little problems like believing Iraqi expatriates on the take and under indictment?

[DBoon]

Like when an Attorney General tells the FBI *NOT* to arrest spies?

you mean like that?

[havocmom]

36. Ya, jis like dat!

:thumbsup:

[grytpype]

43. How about an investigation into his honorable discharge??????

Because he didn't serve his time!

[smaug]

70. Bush photograph displays unearned commendations

Hi Grasswire,

Dubya's official photo at his "poppy's" library shows him wearing a unit commendation medal. Here's the link at blue lemur.

[jimshoes]

8. There are lunatics

at the highest levels of our government. Stark raving mad, round the bend crazy people with access to the nuclear codes. This is scary and depressing.

[Nashyra]

12. We should demand an investigation into AWOL

Time to get the papers to print the story about the asshole getting sent to Alabama. Hell maybe we should pay for an ad, that should get the media going+

[Hornito]

10. This is the same Pentagon that is harboring war criminals like

Wolfowitz, Abrams, Perle, and Feith. The neocons are going to do a full court press to take Kerry down. They want their wars for Israel, and nothing is going to stop them. These traitors, and their friends in the media who have been helping them, must be stopped, at all costs. I think the recently announced FBI investigation into the neocons, is an effort by some patriots to try and stop them. Will it be enough, and will it be in time?

Truly, it us, against them. The neocons, allied with war mongers within the Pentagon, have set up what could be considered a separate government, one that undermines our nation, and our Constitution. They are fascists, and a danger to our nation, and to our democracy.

[jimshoes]

17. If that's the case

and I don't doubt that it is, we will be at war with most of the world before too very long. When Germany started its expansionist policies, the world stood by and watched for a time before it acted. It will happen again. It's just a matter of time.

[sandraj]

14. Now it's a "flagging" presidential campaign?

Geez. Why don't we just skip the election this year.

Oh, wait. The Telegraph is still a Hollinger rag isn't it? Perle, former IL Gov. Jim Thompson (R) and Kissinger are all on the board. That "flagging" bit can be taken with a grain of salt.

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Hollinger_International_Inc.

(edited to add link)

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Consider the source

The Telegraph is not a reliable source.

[sandraj]

19. Agreed

I was being sarcastic :)

[luaneryder]

64. Their bias is certainly showing

with their description of the Kerry campaign. Wonder what they are basing "flagging" on?

[Pirate Smile]

15. Why isn't this in the US media?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

18. The Military is "Republican", and this is just par for the course...

...the pretense that the military is apolitical or nonpolitical is really becoming less plausible .....You have Tommy Franks, barely out of uniform, endorsing Bush...and then you get this stuff from the Pentagon.

[DBoon]

24. So we can now expect the military to intervene in partisan politics?

(*shudder*)... thinks about Latin America...

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

33. Bingo.

...maybe not so obviously, but the mitliary is pretty solid GOP. You might find a few that arnt, but they are the minority for sure.

Dont expect coups, more behind the scenes stuff like this.

But the military isnt happy w. Rumsfeld either, yet they are not going to abandon Bush or the GOP.

[DuaneBidoux]

30. BUSH is actually detested by military brass

This is probably coming from the Dept. of Defense under Rumsfelf, i.e., the civilian, or political side. Most of the top brass are secretly praying (they generally do try to stay non political publicly) that Bush is defeated. They understand the Neocon agenda of an American empire in the Middle East and don't feel that is their profession (to build empires)

[DuaneBidoux]

31. It is also probably Preemptive for CBS on Sunday

Where the guy from Texas will come out and say he got Bush a coveted spot in the Texas Air National Guard

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

35. wrong..RUMSFELD is detested by the brass, who remain GOP..

This is a "famliy affair"....the brass would like to bring down Rummy, but are still GOP, and thus Bush loyalists

Thats the message of the Franks endorsement, and of his book.

Note that his book disses Rumsfeld (+, by extension, the neocons), yet is pro Bush.

So..theres a bit of a game going on here.

[DuaneBidoux]

38. Okay, let me restate it

Bush's POLICIES are detested by the Brass. I don't know how they feel about him personally but they know by now that the neocon package comes with Bush, and that since he is incabable of making a decision on his own the Neocon recommendations are Bush's actions

[wrate]

42. Well, they need to be told that Rumsfeld isn't going anywhere unless *

goes too.

[pinkpops]

20. Lowdown on John Lehman, who "can't remember" signing

the silver star citation

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FG17Aa01.html

"Lehman's ideological and class origins have catapulted him into national politics and into the center of the military-industrial complex. A scion of one of Philadelphia's oldest and wealthiest families, Lehman owns an investment firm and sits on the board of directors of numerous corporations, many of which are major defense contractors. His credentials as a navy secretary dedicated to expanding the fleet and technological capabilities of the US Navy, combined with his family background in investment banking, have made Lehman a major figure in the new frontier of private equity investing in aerospace and defense industries..."

[starroute]

47. Boy, I never knew this stuff about Lehman

From the article you cited (also at http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/barry-tom5.html):

"A member of Philadelphia's high society, Lehman can trace his family line back to an aide to William Penn, founder of the Quaker colony. The late Grace Kelly was Lehman's cousin and, while a student at Cambridge, he frequently spent weekends at the palace of Prince Rainier and Princess Grace in Monaco.

"As a student, Lehman also began associating with the emerging right-wing elite. He joined the Intercollegiate Student Institute, founded by William Buckley Jr, and as a graduate student roomed with Edwin Feulner, who would become the president of the Heritage Foundation. Although a national-security aide to Henry Kissinger during the administration of president Richard Nixon, Lehman by the late 1970s had moved further to the right. He joined the Committee on the Present Danger that was sharply critical of the moderate national-security policies of both political parties and blamed the CIA for underplaying the Soviet threat. But as time proved, the CIA national intelligence estimates provided in the 1970s were largely correct, while the independent threat assessments advanced by the Committee on the Present Danger and the closely associated Team B proved wildly overstated.

"Lehman's penchant for ideology and political agendas over fact-based intelligence was one of the reasons he was forced out of the second Reagan administration. In 1987, when he left with such other hardliners as Richard Perle and Frank Gaffney, it was increasingly apparent even to the most diehard anti-communists that the Soviet Union was beginning to implode."

[KDLarsen]

21. I hope the Kerry campaign works with them..

.. but also releases a statement saying that it is sad that the Pentagon has to do Dubya's job. And once he's cleared off all charges, he should demand an apology from Dubya.

[lancdem]

22. This is that Judicial Watch thing, right?

Larry Klayman is at it again.

[TacticalPeek]

34. Talk about your basic flimsy and frivolous lawyer:

Klayman must have needed some cash.


http://www.judicialwatch.org/3794.shtml


OTOH, I liked the 'drop dead' tone of the IG's response:

In a letter to Judicial Watch, the inspector general's office said: "Concerning your allegations of violations of Uniform Code of Military Justice, we have the responsibility to ... 'report suspected or alleged violations.' We have informed the secretary of the Navy of the allegations."

[chaumont58]

67. Judicial Watch is Scaife

Theresa has a history of conflict with Scaife's Pittsburg paper. The reporter she told to shove it was from Scaife's paper.
During the Nixon embroglio, Scaife was quoted something like "Nixon makes us all feel dirty." I imagine chimpie makes Scaife feel like he just got out of the shower.

[agincourt]

23. Well suprise, suprise

A military full of staunch republicans are going to investigate a Democrat's military record, after they found out that doubts about it could hurt him in the polls. What a shocker. What will they do? Ask O'Neil which medals we should pull? Or will they ask Garner to change it to a dishonorable discharge? Is there anything left that isn't "fuck them till they bleed" Karl Rove's racket?

[joefree1]

25. Dupe and total BS

Chill. This is because of Judicial Watch (Scaife front group). They sue everybody. Pentagon is doing a routine check in response to their whining. They did the same to Clinton.

>>faux spews
NEW YORK — In what has been described by Navy officials as a routine process, the Pentagon's inspector general's office on Thursday referred to the secretary of the Navy a request to investigate medals won by Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry during the Vietnam War.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797685

[spotbird]

26. They already have something which will be released

toward the end of October, when the "investigation" is finished.

Toward the end of December on page 7, below the fold there will be the report that it's all a mistake.

[clydefrand]

28. Fox is calling this a routine process

Routine, hell. I can't stand this crap. I wish John Kerry would beat the hell out of them.

http://search.foxnews.com/_1_2T68UR60328O6WR__info.foxnws/dog/results?otmpl=dog/webresults.htm&qkw=Combat%20V%20designation&qcat=web&top=1&start=&ver=4710&nextPageNum=&fastSearch=

[Maddy McCall]

29. The sole purpose of this investigation is to lend credence to SBV's lies.

[leesa]

39. The Telegraph is a right wing tool. Notice how they say his

campaign is flagging. Couldn't be further from the truth. The investigation's purpose is to distract from Bush's terrible record, but will backfire because real people are already sick of it.

[Ducks In A Row]

40. nice for this rag to pick up another rag's lie

[grytpype]

41. What a fucking outrage!

On Karl Rove's orders, no doubt.

They control everything, and they use their control to keep control of everything.

[Romulus]

44. sort-of dupe

I reported this medalsgate crap on Thursday when I saw a Newsmax.com article on the "investigation."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=724649

For my efforts, I had people calling me a Freeper for alerting people to this latest smear campaign. One example:

saracat (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-02-04 02:18 PM
18. Phoney RW Source.You should delete this!
Newsmax not only rw bur not credible.A story of this type, is not only potentally damaging to Kerry, but demoralising to his supporters!

Thank you for continuing to give us the intel on where this smear campaign is heading, especially now that overseas news orgs are reporting it. Putting our heads in the sand and pretending not to notice won't do us a damn bit of good.

[juajen]

49. I don't know what other Kerry supporters feel about this, but

it doesn't bother me in the least. People, we are not in diapers. This shouldn't bother true Kerry supporters; and the others will soon learn of the idiocy of this.

[UTUSN]

45. They Ain't Interested in REAL Issues

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

My Wingnut Vet Is Just Getting to the Navy-"investigating" JK's Medals

Update: After a couple of years that he abided by my p.o.ed demand that he not send me wingnut crap, he started up again last week. I have countered with articles from DU, especially the ones about Shrub's demonic domestic agenda (gutting Medicare, etc.) if he seizes power another 4 years.

I doubt that he reads the articles. He doesn't answer those. Today he sent a NewsMax item about the Navy "investigating" the clerical error about a "V for Valor" on JK's Silver Star. We at DU had disposed of this non-issue a week ago. I didn't want to get into a long term "debate" with this guy, but it's happening. Here's my answer today:

----------
So you are not concerned about Shrub's plans to gut Medicare and Social Security and to wage perpetual war and to pillage the country-------so all you can gloat about is the Navy's "investigating" a clerical error about KERRY's medals? (Oh, by the way, Shrub doesn't even have any medals to investigate.) This goes beyond malicious pettiness on to short-sighted lack of concern about our country.

1) Judicial Watch is a wingnut organization that harrasses CLINTON and Dems by filing FRIVOLOUS lawsuits. 2) NewsMax is a wingnut rag, which even in your article notes the "clerical error".

This is civilian baiting of civilian ignorance of military regulations and procedures. It was a clerical error that is being blown up into something HUGE, which it is not.

Not only do HIGH admin military staff not know all the regulations at the time they are typing things, the officers who SIGN them don't know enough about what they are signing.

All up and down the chain of command are these little dudes at typewriters with HUGH binders of regulations that are DENSE to read and EASY to mis-read. It's no big deal. I'll wager that a VERY LARGE NUMBER of military personnel records contain errors, that nobody will ever investigate or correct-------unless you're running for President.

In MY DD214, TWO of my eligible medals are not listed. Plus, the number of little star devices on my Vietnam campaign medal is probably wrong.

When somebody files a complaint, the bureaucratic Navy Department MUST "investigate". It SOUNDS "important", doesn't it? Actually, another vet at the Dem discussion board came up with the idea that all us Dem vets should FLOOD the Navy with requests that our records be reviewed-----haha.

[jimshoes]

48. If they must investigate every request,

why not get all Dem vets to request an investigation into their own service medals. It would swamp the system would it not?.
Edit:
I see UTUSN has already mentioned this idea.

[Fatima]

50. Sickening.

Investigate the unelected fraud!!!

[UpsideDownFlag]

51. ...i wonder who they're voting for.

[DubyaSux]

52. I think this is great...

Personally, I have no reason to beleive that an investigation would do nothing but substatiate what Kerry did.

The facts seem clear and the people on the boat with Kerry actually know what happened. If the fear is that they will "find" something different, then a great many people OTHER than Kerry will suffer. So, I think only the facts would come out and once again, Bush looks like an idiot.

The only thing better would be if Hans Blix or David Kay looked for evidence of lying on Kerry's part and came up empty again.

[Bill ORights]

53. Judicial Watch

The folks who made the request, Judicial Watch, give the following as the way to reach them, but I couldn't get through on their email address. If they're so non-partisan, why haven't they asked the army to "correct the records" on the deserter * ? Here it is:

Contact Information

Judicial Watch can be contacted via phone, fax, or mail. Also, you can always send an e-mail to [e-mail].

We can be contacted in the following locations:

Judicial Watch, Inc.
P.O. Box 96234
Washington, DC 20077-7480
Tel: 888-JW-ETHIC
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Southern Regional Headquarters
100 S.E. 2nd Street
Bank of America Tower
Suite 3920
Miami, FL 33131-2148
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Western Regional Headquarters
2540 Huntington Drive
Suite 201
San Marino, CA 91108-2601
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Southwestern Regional Headquarters
5735 Pineland Drive, Suite 275
Dallas, TX 75231
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[TexasSissy]

54. Spend my tax $$$ to check on a challenger's war medals?

WTF???? Is that legal? Who ordered that? I want to know! That's the same crap they pulled on Clinton. They spent millions "investigating" him for trumped up things, and never found anything. Yet the public was left with the impression he'd done something wrong.

I want to know who ordered this.

[rocktivity]

55. They can check Bush's record, too, while they're at it

It sounds like nothing more than a clerical error. And even if there IS a problem, it's the Navy's fault, not Kerry's.

I myself am a lot more interested in why Bush's record is missing a ribbon that he should have earned for five year's satisfactory service to his unit. That's why I've ordered one hundred of these buttons:


:headbang:
rocknation

[dave123williams]

56. Don't you understand?

They'll make a story of the *investigation*...the Pentagon will come out and say that everything was in perfect order with Kerry's service record, about 90 days from now. In the meantime, the neo-con echo chamber in the media will smear Kerry with the investigation story...

[KT2000]

57. Another $70 million investigation?

Do not forget that they already spent the $70 million to investigate Clinton's loss of $65,000 in a land deal. It dominated our news for years.

This calls for getting into the streets!

I want answers from Bush on the following:

When did you stop beating your wife?

Are you still have sex with underage girls?

What psychotropic drugs are you on?

All of these questions must be investigated.

[kungfugrip]

59. Chill out guys. Its gonna take months to do this.

Don't get pissed. Kerry's got nothing to hide. The record will be set quite straight.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

68. Kerry doesn't have months.

This is a rehash of that Whitewater scheme that worked so well against Clinton and his allies. Sure, the final verdict will be in Kerry's favor, but until then, just the fact that he's being investigated will hurt him; guilty until proven innocent and all that. It will eventually turn out that there's nothing suspicious in Kerry's record and that the investigation was completely pointless, but the Cabal are hoping that by then, Kerry will have lost the election, retired into obscurity, and possibly suffered an unfortunate accident.

[HarveyBriggs]

69. Yeah, just like whitewater.

The investigation is just a ruse to pull Kerry through the mud and extend the lies; by the time the investigation is over Bush will be President.

What slimeball.

Harvey Briggins

[farmbo]

61. Maybe they can search for Bush's "missing" NG records while they're at it

eom

[acmavm]

63. I think that the biggest problem here is that the bush* cabal is using OUR

government to completely subvert and destroy the election process in this country. This is an attempted coup, in a round-about way. They are currently in the catbird's seat, so they are going to use the power of the Pentagon (currently being run by Rumsfeld, a guy who delivered weapons and chemicals to Hussein when he felt they needed him), and any other government agency that they think they need to sink Kerry's campaign.