WP ABC Poll: Bush Gains Solid Lead, Poll Shows

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9060-2004Sep9.html

President Bush emerged from his New York convention with a solid lead over Democratic challenger John F. Kerry, strengthening his position on virtually every important issue in the campaign and opening up a clear advantage over his rival on many of the personal characteristics that influence voters in presidential elections, according to a Washington Post-ABC News Poll.

For the first time in the campaign, a majority of likely voters now say they plan to vote for Bush. Among those most likely to vote in November, Bush holds a 52 percent to 43 percent lead over Kerry, with independent Ralph Nader receiving 2 percent of the hypothetical vote. Among all registered voters, Bush leads Kerry 50 percent to 44 percent.

A smaller sample in 19 battleground states, where strategists believe the election will be decided, Bush holds a narrower lead among likely voters, 50 percent to 46 percent. Among all voters, the two candidates are running even, suggesting that voter turnout again will be the key to victory in November.

The survey highlights the damage to Kerry during the month of August and the Republican convention. Bush got a 4-point "bounce" up in support among likely voters from his convention, about what Kerry received from his convention in July. But in other important ways, the poll suggests that Republicans achieved virtually all their objectives last week in New York, particularly in their goal of making Kerry less acceptable to voters.

Data: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/polltrend_090804.html

[MrBenchley]

1. This just in--Emperor's clothes look better than ever!

[Richardson08]

13. What's up with Jersey?

Why has Kerry's lead in New Jersey shrunk?Half the people in Jersey are from NY and Bush could not win a race for dogcatcher in NY.

I love reading how the people in the mid-west are concerned with terrorism or that issue is #1 on their list.

[MrBenchley]

16. Nothing's up with Jersey...

I still see lots of Kerry bumperstickers and signs...and hardly any for the Chimp....

Did see an incredibly lame billboard for the Pirates of Halliburton..."It's your money"...

Not sure that's the tactic to take when the economy sucks...

"I love reading how the people in the mid-west are concerned with terrorism"
Visiting the mother-in-law a couple years ago, I found that the mayor of Marion, Indiana had constructed barriers around his office (but not city hall) as a "anti-terrorist measure." Made me laugh like hell....

[Sagan]

2. This is fine with me...

My first preference is for Kerry to have a huge, insurmountable lead at this point. That's not going to happen in this race.

My second preference is for Kerry to trail slightly at this point. Why is that? Because I am absolutely sure that the media would love to make Chimpy the "comeback kid".

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. Wait...is that the sound of crap hitting the floor?

[wurzel]

ABC must be polling their own staff.

[LibertyorDeath]

5. LOL

"ABC must be polling their own staff"

Or CNN's

[swag]

4. from same article (sic transit dubya)

"What won't be known for another few weeks is whether Bush's gains are transitory, as Kerry's were in the immediate aftermath of his convention. The setback to Kerry has generated concern among Democrats about the state of his candidacy, but four years ago, Bush trailed then vice president Al Gore by 8 points and later 10 points in tracking polls taken by the Gallup Organization in mid-September 2000 and came back to win the election."

[daleo]

25. Of course he didn't win the election

He won the selection. I know it hardly needs to be repeated around here, but I can't help myself.

[sfecap]

6. Key phrase:

"Among all voters, the two candidates are running even, suggesting that voter turnout again will be the key to victory in November. "

This is what it's all about, and why Kerry will win.

There is a huge amount of new voters, people who haven't been voting before, who are going to turn out and vote for Kerry.

They don't get polled, either.

[papau]

8. ABC "even" is Bush 50 to 44

If the 2004 presidential election were being held today, would you vote for (George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, the Republicans), (John Kerry and John Edwards, the Democrats), or Ralph Nader and Peter Camejo, the independents? Which candidates are you leaning toward?

Net Leaned Vote, Likely Voters:

Other Neither Would No
Bush Kerry Nader (vol.) (vol.) not vote op.
9/8/04 52 43 2 * 1 0 2
8/29/04 48 48 1 * 1 0 2

Net Leaned Vote, Registered Voters:

Other Neither Would No
Bush Kerry Nader (vol.) (vol.) not vote op.
9/8/04 50 44 2 * 2 * 2
8/29/04 48 47 2 * 1 * 2

[Qutzupalotl]

48. Looks like they've traded places after their respective conventions.

Probably we'll go back to 49-49 polls in a few weeks.

[lancdem]

18. This part confuses me

Among all voters, the two candidates are running even, suggesting that voter turnout again will be the key to victory in November.

Running even? I thought Bush was ahead. :shrug:

[demanddimmer]

7. Yeah, right!

This poll must be an outlier...the sheeple CAN'T be this STUPID!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. Obviously, they can

:eyes:

Case in point...

[ProgressiveOne]

9. Kerry approval down to 36%? NO WAY!

Kerry's favorable rating fell from 51 percent at the beginning of August to just 36 percent in the latest Post-ABC News poll, while his unfavorable rating rose from 32 percent to 42 percent.

No frickin' way that his negatives are four points from his approval rating. NO WAY! 36% would mean he's getting unfavorable ratings from Democrats, and that ain't happening.

[dennis4868]

10. how do you know....

that aint happening?

[lancdem]

20. That does seem a bit low

I can see it being in the 40s.

[ZJoeZ]

11. Well...

I don't exactly approve of him. But between him and W...not too hard.

Shoulda been Dean. Or Clark. Heck, the way he's running this campaign, I'm starting to think Lieberman would have been better (sarcasm or desperation? I don't know)

[NWHarkness]

12. Piss off

You know, some of us are working our asses off for this campaign, and that kind of remark is an insult to us.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheDebbieDee]

43. Buh Bye, Asshole!

[Almost_there]

57. Tempers tempers...

OK, these are just polls, remember that. There is a solid reason that there are about a dozen or more large polling organizations out there. I actually do understand what ZJoeZ is saying, I don't think he's criticizing the campaign workers, but, I think he is criticizing the way Kerry has handled the scrutiny and attacks. TO me, I think Kerry could be doing more, pointing more to his own record, his own service (as he did with Cheney and Vietnam deferments!) but, he hasn't come out enough on the offensive, not in the negative way, but, in the "this is why you need to elect me!! way". The "W stands for Wrong" speech the other day from Cincy was a good start, but, he needs to get ENERGIZED and get the voters out!

I am not one to just yell at someone for actually making a point, so, flame me if you wish, TheDeb, but, I think ZJoeZ actually is speaking some truth here, and yes, the truth hurts the most, because we know its the truth.

Let's forget the polls, polls don't elect presidents, PEOPLE elect presidents. For those of you in New Jersey, get out there! Yes! I am scared that Jersey can be lost because the Republicans are using McGreevey's scandal as a rallying cry, claiming "disenfranchisement!!" so, get out the vote! We haven't lost this thing, but, if we let this get us down, we will lose the initiative, and if we lose the initiative, we may well lose the election.

~Almost

[trumad]

73. Is it your habit to agree with tombstoned freepers?

[Almost_there]

74. Oh no! I can't agree with him because... why?

So, I'm not allowed to agree with some freaking freeper, even if they say the sky is blue, I must therefore say it is what? Green? Black? Purple?

I don't understand your premise of my agreeing with someone that says Kerry has run a week campaign when that's what I think. Kerry has just started hitting back, and he hasn't been getting energized. (Have I started freeping yet? I actually think that Kerry needs to really get out there and get hammering away on ISSUES. I'm glad to hear he is leaving the Vietnam issue behind, if he doesn't acknowledge the Swifties, they will bury themselves, as they have been shown to do.

And you know what they say about a broken clock... even it gives the correct time twice a day.

So, no. I don't say "Buh bye Asshole" to most people, I don't use such hip and cool phrases as "a tombstoned freeper", but, I try to stick with issues and debating those issues in a rational (let me repeat that.. RATIONAL) manner, and when someone who doesn't share my views has a point, HEY! I will acknowledge that point! Will I disagree with some things that Kerry does? HELL YES! Is that my right and ability to do so? Absolutely.

~Almost

[trumad]

76. So the answer is yes?

[Almost_there]

77. Are you really serious?

I have no idea at this point what in the world you are referring to. There are what is known as "multiple points" in this discussion. So, answer yes or no to the following question:

1)Kerry has run what I consider a week campaign thus far
2)The swifies are truth bearing light bringers for all
3)Ralph Nader is a viable candidate

Your answer here: YES / NO

Sorry, trumad, but, your question is one I can't answer with "yes". I was simply brining forth an issue of "tempers" and calling people "assholes" based on their opinions. I think it is as bad here as it is in the bush regime to silence anyone's point of view (assuming that it is not intentionally disruptive, name calling etc etc).

So, to your one line "So the answer is yes?" inquiry, I'll have to reply with a "no. I DON'T make it a habit to agree with Freepers. I have my own opinions, I will present them in a hopefully clear, concise, and reasonable manner in an effort to present my beliefs on a single or multiple issues.

So, to simplify further:

The answer is no.

Got it?

~Almost

[goclark]

80. Kerry's Act Is Together

It ain't about Kerry.

Bush and Cheney only have a comedy act.

They do however have a hold on the Media and the Pollsters.
I might add, they also have a hold on some Rethug idiots who chose to believe that Bush cares about them.

[Kukesa]

63. Damn right we're working our asses off,

and we don't appreciate insulting remarks like those made by ZJoeZ.

A newbie and all of a sudden he's an expert?

Get lost. :thumbsdown:

[trumad]

14. sniff

[CatWoman]

45. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

name is suspiciously similar to Z-E-R-O's.

The guy who was banned today :eyes:

[demanddimmer]

15. HEY!

Sounds like you might be happier in a different forum...

[ZJoeZ]

38. Look, if you think Kerry is running the best campaign possible,

then good for you. This isn't an ideological point I'm making. I'm making the point that we should be winning by 10pts at least, given just how stupid and inept * is, and if it were ANY of the other realistic nominees (I.E. not Mosley-Brawn or Kuchinich), we'd be doing much better IMHO.

Kerry will have the ability to squish him in the debates. Let's hope he does, or we are doomed.

Just face it, if it were Dean, we'd be in a much better position then we are now.

[Maddy McCall]

68. HAHAHAHA!

Dean did SOOOO well in the primaries, didn't he? :eyes:

[Snivi Yllom]

87. agree

I think we would be better, but the real discussion can come after the election. That will be the time to debate this stuff again.

[JoFerret]

41. Tripe

.

[Snivi Yllom]

86. I will second that thought

Dean was my choice also

[Democat]

17. Anyone who doesn't think constant attacks are the way to go is an idiot!

All the American people seem to pay attention to is attack ads - everything else doesn't stick.

[Beansie]

19. It will get worse.

Before it gets better. Such is politics.

[Gloria]

21. Looks like another mishmash of sampling....a mix of "registered"

voters and who else?? The Time poll did the same thing...combined "registered" voters and god knows what else....likely voters, all voters,
registered voters....if they're using the same methods as in the charts in the earlier post.....

Frankly, there seems to be an awful lot of effort to slice and dice and to use different polling methods in odd combinations.

[dolstein]

22. It's official: Kerry is in serious trouble

Sorry folks, but there's no denying it. The race is no longer Kerry's to lose. There is now a concensus among the chattering class that the Bush campaign has inflicted serious damage on Kerry, and that the Kerry campaign is now very much on the defensive, if not in total disarray. And, unfortunately, this viewpoint will inform much of the coverage Kerry receives over the next few weeks, making it all the more difficult for him to turn things around. Once the viscious cycle starts, it's damn hard to stop it.

[NEDem]

23. Oh Bullshit!! Kerry is fine, just chill out.

[dolstein]

27. Were you born yesterday?

I wasn't. And from my perspective, Kerry is looking a hell of a lot more like Dukakis in '88 and Mondale in '84 than Clinton in '92. Is it too late for Kerry to turn things around? No. He still has a few more weeks. But anyone who says Kerry is doing "just fine" is kidding themselves.

[NEDem]

31. No I wasn't

I have been watching presidential politics long enough to know that the polls mean nothing, NOTHING! This year the polling is all over the place, which simply means nobody has any idea what is going to happen. Do you know anyone who solidly changed their mind after RNC? I don't and I talk to a lot of people. Nothing changed from either convention. Its still wide open, and Kerry' race to lose. So like I said, CHILL OUT.

[JackDragna]

47. Polls mean everything.

They're the best measuring stick of how the electorate feels. Right now, our candidate trails in every major national poll, no matter who conducts them. That is no accident. Kerry is driving his campaign into the ground. Saying it's his race to lose is to live in fantasyland. Perhaps at one time, but now it's the president's race to lose, so long as Kerry keeps running a reactive, Mr. Nice Guy sort of campaign.

[bringbackfdr]

61. 'The president's race to lose'

Anyone on this board who refers to the nitwit now occupying the White House as "the president'' has got to be a repuke troll. Get lost.

[Sterling]

50. Wow we agree.

I really wish people here would be more realistic. We can't get * out unless we are willing to face the music.

[sonicx]

26. no

nearly tied in 3 other polls. it's not over.

[dolstein]

28. That's your opinion -- but the conventional wisdom disagrees

and it's that conventional wisdom that will inform and drive the political coverage for the next few weeks. Bad poll numbers tend to beget bad poll numbers.

[sonicx]

30. we'll see

gore was down 13 in mid oct 2000.

[NEDem]

33. A poll will change nobody's mind

Kerry is fine.

[Zorra]

34. Who is the source of this "conventional wisdom" that disagrees?

Just curious.

[Sterling]

51. The whores.

They are in charge of "what Americans think". And they say everyone was so excited after the Puke mass baptism that all Americans now bow down to Hitler/Bush.

The remedy for this is an open question but if the media takes this tone it will make Deibolding the election very easy for Bush. Take fake or manipulated #s and then rig the machines and it looks like Kerry was gonna lose anyway so the machines and other voter fraud are not questioned.

[lancdem]

36. That's my biggest concern

I think Kerry is beginning to take the offensive, but it's going to be hard to change the public perception he is behind.

[koopie57]

67. I took an online pole

and even though it probably was skewed, it was 70 percent Kerry and 28 percent for Bush. It was on a msn news page. We really are going to have to wait and see I think cuz the media all seem to have their own agenda rather than just reporting the news. Who knows, they could be making these numbers up.

[Catt03]

78. Serious damage?

Yes....

I have a good friend in South Florida who can't stand Bush....
but is rethinking voting for him. The swing bite was "get them over there before they come over here"

And it is playing well among Jewish voters in this area.

What a shame. The entire attack campaign by the Republicans has worked. We have a man in the White House that is the worst president ever and people are voting via sound bites.

I agree that this will be hard to overcome.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. Maybe it is time that the elephant in the living room is not ignored

These polls -- is it wise to slough them all off as some sort of a conspiracy .

[sonicx]

32. no conspiracy, maybe just laziness

the dem-rep-ind internals will tell te real story (they aren't in that link for some reason...)

[sonicx]

29. what the hell is this?

a. John Kerry 36 42 23
b. George W. Bush 51 39 11
c. Dick Cheney 43 37 20
d. John Edwards 39 26 35

Edwards is liked less than Cheney? um, yeah. LOL

[AlFrankenFan]

35. this is depressing

Kerry's seriously going to have to work his dang ass off the next 50-whatever days if he wants to take back America.

[sonicx]

37. *sigh* guys read this...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Vote2004/bush_campaign_poll_040909.html

snip

The fact that underlying views have changed means they can change again. After the Democratic convention there were eight points more Democrats than Republicans among likely voters; today, there are six points more Republicans than Democrats. Party allegiance has been +3 or +4 Democratic in exit polls since 1988; Kerry would gain ground by moving the alignment back to its Election Day norm. But shifting party allegiance is not his only problem: He's losing 12 percent of Democrats to Bush, twice Bush's loss of Republicans to Kerry.

snip

codeword: more repubs sampled than dems. again.

[althecat]

40. This is FXXXXING UNBELIEVEABLE....

They cannot be allowed to get away with this...

This paragraph implies that this is a standard methodology that is being used by pollsters.... i.e. to poll people first and then make up the percentage breakdown on the basis of the responses received...

[sambird90]

42. repukes

are just trying there damnest to take our eyes off the prize. if they convince enuff undecideds to stay at home on election day because there man is going to win anyway, then they have won. lets not let that happen.

[JackDragna]

46. And here's our weak, mealy-mouthed candidate..

..getting destroyed by the Swift Boats Vets and Zell Miller. Sigh. When will the man fight back? When will he stop giving these rambling, boring speeches?

[demgrrrll]

49. Donkey Rising does the best

poll analysis on the web.
<http://emergingdemocraticmajority.com/donkeyrising/> I like the apples and oranges post.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

56. The post after(before) that one:

1. The latest Gallup Poll has Bush ahead of Kerry by 52-45 percent among likely voters but by only 49-48 percent among registered voters. Based on the numbers of registered and likely voters in their sample, this means that Gallup is projecting that 89 percent of Bush supporters will vote but only 79 percent of Kerry supporters will vote. That seems unrealistic. It is way out of line with data from the American National Election Studies on turnout among registered Dems and Republicans in recent elections.

[bringbackfdr]

62. Freeper

Go back under your rock and play with Cheney.

[jackieforthedems]

52. I Find This Crap Hard To Believe

If Bush wins the election, it'll be another good "rig" job.

[sambird90]

58. have a feeling

that the repukes want evryone to thinks its close so it will be easier to dupe the people when they have to convince them that even though KERRY got 2 million more votes than gwb that there man still won.

[autorank]

66. AMEN

[Zorra]

53. Kerry ahead by 40 percent in Zorra poll.

I asked mostly people that looked like Democrats.

My poll is the most accurate.

[Karenina]

54. This *media "horse race"

is GROTESQUE and Americans be starting to look like road apples from an overfed horses ass. There is not a conscious soul on this globe who fails to recognize the threat to our collective survival that your current gub'mint represents. Seems whenever anyone say it out loud, they're pressed to resign. (Da *dauphin is NOT up to the task and too much resembles a nassy fart we THOUGHT we'd overcome... do not even whisper such truths, you WILL lose your job, 'cept CHAVEZ who they pressed and who told them to stick it where the sun don't shine. He has the support of the people.

Your *corp media represents you to the ROTW as overindulgent, under-educated, loud, arrogant, ignorant, self-centered, self-involved, oblivious to the obvious lessons of our collective history, patterns, and IRRATIONALLY VIOLENT. Hmmmmm.... :freak: No spin necessary, jes' take a look! :SIGH:

*corp media is Ameica's Public Enemy #1. (Cue Elliot Ness music... Re.-re faaaaa re.-fa sol.-sol faaaaa....)

NO WAY I WILL BELIEVE that *dauphin garners even 20% if the true numbers could ever be accurately tallied. (Die Dummen eingeschließen, sie haben auch portemonnaaaienoooNoooothingtheeere). There will always be those Diehards and Diebolds who are so enamoured of groupthink that they will willingly believe absurdities, convince others to do so and commit atrocities as a result. 10% hardcore and another 10 due to their immediate sphere of influence. These ARE those who would watch their and your children gag to protect those fouling air or who would not hear a child's pleas in the next room after a S.O.'s extended "bathroom trip." So IST das Leben. They are a perverted minority.

These "polls" are nothing more than *media-controlled masturbatory fantasy. SOAP OPERA CLIFF HANGER. Tune in tomorrow for the NEXT episode! Same time, same station. Wanna be a Neillson family? Make $$$ in your spare time Freeping online polls!!!

Meanwhile gub'mint ensures those votes from abroad, military or otherwise are "controlled" and otherwise vetted. Installs unreliable machines hither thither and yon... scurb registrations and intimidates whomever possible. Then calls your TV folks and has them announce the "horse race" again. Whatta ficken joke.

[Almost_there]

65. I'm lost...

OK, I've read and reread your post, and I am way too tired to understand all of it, I guess, but, you are saying that the polls are a total lie, and that there is no way that even 20% of the American public actually supports Bush? Or that 20% of the world's populice supports Bush? If that is what you believe, well, get used to living in a fantasy world along with the rest of us here in the States.

I hate to be someone to bring forth a gut wrenching reality check, but, while Bush is no friend of anyone's here, he does have a large chunk of the people in this country following him. Can we call them all brainless mind controlled sheeple? I can't. In this campaign, he has come across as "the regular guy" (Easy Money w/ Rodney Dangerfield) and he has hit hard when he had to, and cojoled othertimes. We can't just think that the Dems will win because we have the better ideology, we may as well stick our collective heads in the sand until something better comes along.

I honestly don't believe that CNN is controlled by the vast right wing conspiracy, or that the NY Times is a Bush propoganda paper. Fox News? YES! They are far out there. Far beyond CNN, MSNBC, and CNBC, but, why are they so damn popular? Is it a conspiracy? Or, have they tapped into something, maybe even something simple. I don't know. I truly don't understand it, even if you assume 45% Dems, 45% Reps, and 10% genuinely "independants", why is Fox so far ahead in the ratings? They more than beat out CNN, MSNBC and CNBC COMBINED for most coverage. :shrug:

I am by NO means calling this election even started, let alone over, but, if anyone thinks that this whole thing is rigged from the get go, that the American public is a bunch of drooling fools, and that Bush will force people to vote for him in November because of Gestapo like techniques, we should just give up now. I can't stand a defeatist attitude, and that goes the same for a conspiracy of Bush running everything from polls to voting booths to the laundermat down the street. Sorry, I got very tangental, I'm tired, I am also pissed off at the stupid NFL pregame show. Pregame should be 5 minutes of a little background, a few stats, and then the game.

~Almost

[Karenina]

84. If you are unable to recognize

*fascist media manipulation in all its mendacious glory, please allow me to recommend this: http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/mcluhan.html

[progressivebydesign]

55. Here's my analysis. America likes assholes!!!!

After the shit Zell, Cheney, and the rest of them pulled at the convention, and after the smears by the liars of the Swift Boats.. then I have to assume the majority of Americans are warm and fuzzy for liars, assholes, and thugs. Not a pretty thought.

[Charles19]

89. Your Average Joe Likes

not just assholes bug ignorant juvenile acting assholes.

Lets not generalize it out to all assholes, k :-).

Now while I think they like to see this on TV and it is entertaining for Average Joe, I do not think the Joes who are motivated enough to get off the couch to go vote will vote for one.

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

59. Let them think they're ahead

it doesn't hurt to make them complacent and light a fire under our very own asses...

Back to the chimp farm for bunnypants*

[Bake]

60. Kerry has not been a fighter.

He waited too long to respond to the Swift Boat Liars. As far as I can tell, he still hasn't responded to Cheney's outrageous statement.

I swear to God, Bill Clinton is the ONLY Democrat in YEARS who knows how to win a damn election! And he BEAT an INCUMBENT BUSH!!!

When, when, WHEN will Dems wake the hell up???? I am sick and tired of losing.

Bake

[sonicx]

64. read...

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Vote2004/bush_campaign_poll_040909.html

snip

The fact that underlying views have changed means they can change again. After the Democratic convention there were eight points more Democrats than Republicans among likely voters; today, there are six points more Republicans than Democrats. Party allegiance has been +3 or +4 Democratic in exit polls since 1988; Kerry would gain ground by moving the alignment back to its Election Day norm. But shifting party allegiance is not his only problem: He's losing 12 percent of Democrats to Bush, twice Bush's loss of Republicans to Kerry.

snip

[teryang]

69. Of all the people I know who are democrats only one

...thinks that bush is a credible leader and admires his "tough on national security" non-sense. Most people are just sick of hearing about Iraq and the so called war on terror. Most people know that it is just bullshit and that war sucks period, even republicans. War is something promoted by the rich and connected to preserve and expand their privileges at the expense of the public and constitutional government.

The threat of terrorism is something that the defense sector, oil sector and other corporate reactionaries have to cultivate in order to do a "job" on what's left of 20th Century democracy.

[Liberal Til I Die]

70. Bounce was to be expected, Bush's lead is not insurmountable

This was to be expected, a modest bounce. With almost two months to go and the debates to follow, this lead is not insurmountable by any means.

And more importantly, the electoral vote is still close. All Kerry needs to do is keep the Gore 2000 states and pick up one of Florida, Ohio, or Missouri. I think Florida is our best chance at this point.

Or he could pick up a few of Bush's less safe states like West Virginia, Nevada, and New Hampshire. Picking up just WV and NV will make it 270-268 Kerry and we win.

[GaryL]

71. Debates

Despite all the mindless pukes who feel the necessity of lighting themselves up and screaming fire, this election will be won/lost at the debates. Remember Gore? I don't care whether WE think he won, he lost. He rolled his eyes like a petty school kid and got beat up in the press. Dubya baited Gore and the public perfectly and won the day (and got close enough to steal the election). This time around, it's up to Kerry to kick his ass. Kerry's got to reach inside himself and channel his reckless youth into a performance that makes him worthy of the highest office in the land. If he does that, these pro-bush dems will come home and Kerry will walk away with the election, as it should be.

Convention bounces come and go. The incumbent gets the advantage of going last. It's one big infomercial, but when the dust settles, it still comes down to who the candidate really is. GW needs for the dems to loose faith in Kerry or he'll be gone. That's his only hope. And from lurking and posting in DU for the last month, he seems to be right on track. Can Bush* continue this through the debates? Unfortunately, no one here is in control of that, not even the chimp. Only John Fitzgerald Kerry is. I believe he can, he will, he must. So take another poll . Regardless, unlike what the republican party is willing to accept, we require mettle from our candidates.

[sambird90]

72. J.F.K. 2004

You are absolutley right. All it will take is for KERRY to chase gwb off the stage in the debate, like he chased down the v.c. aiming a rocket launcher at his shipmates. KERRY will be fine he has more balls than w ever will. If he shows that same courage in the debate gwb will stare off into space for at least seven minutes and repukes can see him for the coward he is.

[Ohio rules]

75. JFK can't use 'Nam in the debate !

That old war talk is wearing him out.
Bill Clinton from his hospital bed call Kerry and told him "stick to current issues.
Kerry's own people feel his debate skills need polishing.

No Viet Nam talk.
jmho

[psychopomp]

83. Ain't it the truth!

The debates will be crucial and it will be Kerry's moment to crush that little chimp. We will also need to keep the heat on Dumbya until the debates get underway.

[hansolsen]

79. Poetic justice in the offing. Bush wins popular vote, loses in E/C. N/T

[Freddie Stubbs]

82. That certainly would be, but

it isn't very likely to happen unless it is a very close election. A nine-point loss isn't going to cut it. In a much closer election it certainly is possible.

[malachi]

81. Relax, Kerry will win. Not even close.

Let'see, 2k election, Gore had 500,000+ more votes than the chimp. How many of those people will vote for the chimp this time? Zero. Nader, even the brain dead that voted for this idiot last time have to realize that the chimp is a bigger threat to the world than corp America. Moderate repugs, I know many who can't stand the chimp admin and won't vote for the piece of shit. Don't worry, regardless of the bs from the "liberal press" Kerry is going to win going away. Although we live in a country populated with some stunningly stupid people I think that there are still enough people with a least a minimally functioning brain that can filter the nonsense coming from the chimp camp.

[kwolf68]

85. Ron Silver

There has to be others like him.

Plus...maybe they are getting out their fascist base this time...maybe the Libertarians, KKK, Aryan Nations, Skinheads, Nazis and general hatemongers will make it to the polls this time.

[freemarketer]

88. It's all over but the shouting. At a time the Democrats desperately needed

a viable candidate to oppose a virtual monster, the Democrats collectively put their heads together and came up with arguably the worst candidate in their history. Karl Rove has been one step ahead of the Democrats from the very beginning. And when you tell a Democrat this, they'll say something like "they don't play fair" or "they've gone too far this time". Unbelievable. This could very well be the end of the Democratic Party as a new government form emerges.

SSS