Mother of soldier killed in Basra backs teenagers AWOL from army

[Nambe]

©2004 Scotsman

THE mother of a Scottish soldier killed in Iraq has given her support to two teenagers who have gone absent without leave from the army, fearing they were going to be posted to the war-torn country. ..

She said: "The kids are frightened to go to Iraq. I think what happened to my son has been a lesson to other young soldiers, and it has frightened the life out of them.

"Now they realise what they are getting into. I think they are right to do it, as the army does not listen to these boys anyway. They must all be nervous wrecks."

The first to refuse to go back to his base was David McBride, 17, in July, and it has now emerged that Brian Wright, 18, and also from Glasgow, has been AWOL for the past 12 days.

Mrs Gentle and her husband, George, have said they are determined to continue their fight against the Iraq war, which they claim is illegal and immoral. ..

[JoFerret]

1. Gentle, thanks

.

[Demonaut]

2. they should fulfill their oaths to their country, they volunteered

you cant pick your fights once you've signed the dotted line

[Massacure]

3. Geneva Convention says you don't have to follow illegal orders

And in this country, International Treaties superscede National Law.

[Demonaut]

6. What court what ruling decided that this is an illegal war??????

[Voice_of_Europe]

17. Give me an example of a LEGAL WAR please?

There are no LEGAL wars... as well as there are no legal murders or legal rapes!

Maybe your leader can actually MAKE YOU THINK that a war is "moral", but thats not a very objective view of things.

[RivetJoint]

22. Sure hope Europe doesn't

try to punish the US for WWI and WWII...I mean our particpation in them being illegal and all.

[Demonaut]

26. first of all I've never said the war is moral INFACT I've said its immoral

and my leaders are not the ones I voted for and bty I carry both EU passports and US but thats beside the point, I only make the argument that once youve joined the military you are subject to its laws IE: UCMJ, and your rights as a civilian are now superceded.

[DrWeird]

31. Good, so you agree it's immoral.

Then it's the soldiers moral responsibility to break the law.

[Demonaut]

33. and when at court martial they say "Demonaut said the war is immoral"

then thats that, a perfect defense...............................

[DrWeird]

34. Sucks to be them.

Either they break the law and be moral, or break the law and be immoral.

[Demonaut]

36. catch 22 I agree

[susanna]

42. No, that's when they say

"I believe this war is immoral, and here is why."

They have that obligation to themselves.

[KDLarsen]

20. You could always take the UN charter..

.. IIRC, it specifies that one member country cannot attack another member country without a specific resolution.


Of course, noone in the UN is going to bring that up, fearing that they'll be next in line for preemptive war.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

29. YOU should go fight the fucking war then

if you're so supportive of the Army and it's immoral grip on these youth. Who needs a court to see this war is illegal, immoral and mostly just stupid beyond all reason. I would be so AWOL it's not funny. I wish great numbers would go AWOL and the sooner the better.

[Demonaut]

41. I served active and if it were possible I would go but at 42 that

window has closed, I was discharged honorably in 1986

[wellstone dem]

4. But what if

the people they made the contract with have violated the contract first by sending these volunteers into an unplanned war for an unjustified reason.

[Demonaut]

7. that still changes nothing, the military orders take precedent

[Dhalgren]

23. The Human conscience takes precedent over everything

else. The laws should be broken when they run counter to humanity. These boys have broken the law - good, it should be broken. People were not made for rules and laws and orders; laws, rules, and orders were made for people. If you believe that an order, law, or rule is wrong, you should break it, and let the chips fall where they may.

If the fascists are going to kill us anyway, why let them choose the time and place? I think that all of us should start refusing to "go along" with these "blue suit Nazis". I support all soldiers who desert from this inhuman murder we call the "Liberation of Iraq".

[0007]

27. Piss on all military warriors and all wars and all fucking people

that support 'em!!

[Demonaut]

35. lovely..................nt

[acmavm]

5. Regardless of whether they are American or British, these kids have

been betrayed by the leaders of their country. They are being sent into a hell hole because the pResident of the United States and his administration lied about Iraq having WMDs, lied about the reasons we were going to war, and neither government sent the troops in with proper equipment or in sufficient numbers. They did not have a plan for the war, they did not have a plan for the aftermath.

I don't believe that anyone joins the military in order to be used, and possibly killed by their leaders for a hidden agenda and greed. A contract to serve one's country would seem, at least to me, to be nullified by war under false pretenses. The troops do not deserve, no one deserves, that.

[Demonaut]

8. I agree no one deserves that but that's not for them to decide

when you sign up you don't get to make decisions about the morality of war...we all agree that the war is immoral but they no longer have the rights of you and I, they signed them away when they enlisted

[Carolab]

9. The military is constitutionally for DEFENSE

This mission does not fit the definition of a defensive effort.

[Demonaut]

10. it falls under defense, it's called preemptive war..........

[Carolab]

11. It's NOT defense n/t

[Demonaut]

12. Carolab, the war is immoral, it is wrong but the senate gave bush

the authority to declare war on real or imagined enemies to the US in the guise of preemptive war, until this chimp in wolf clothing is removed from office the military follows his orders. It's fucked but it's legal

[Carolab]

14. They were given FALSE information

that led them to believe there was a THREAT, remember???? Telling LIES to the Senate to get them to back the war is LEGAL?

[4MoreYearsOfHell]

15. We gave the chimp authority

under the condition that he get the votes and backing from the UN. Chimpy saw the votes aligned against him, and he went off on his own.

The US is a signee to the UN treaty governing war, which states that war should be undertaken as a defensive measure only.

Therefore, dumbya has violated both international law and our own laws by his PNAC inspired adventure.

[Carolab]

16. Yes, and

they LIED to the UN, too.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. Um, they're in SCOTLAND

Last time I checked, neither Shrub nor the United States Senate had any authority over that nation. Or did I miss our pre-emptive invasion of the British Isles?


And it may not even be a volunteer army, since many European countries require some service from their young people.

[Demonaut]

25. I was refering to our troops in response to an earlier post, still

the brits dont have conscripts, still a volunteer army

[RivetJoint]

38. Not the UK

[Voice_of_Europe]

18. Herodes took preemptive action too

You know....
the slaying of little babies to prevent that baby jesus would ever grow up...

It EXACTLY matches the definition of "preemptive action"

So Mr. Herodes did it in legal defense! The poor guy had no other chance! He was cornered by little babies!

[Eloriel]

32. Seems to me, Demonaut

they're in the process of taking their rights BACK. And I approve. If the basic moral contract is broken, I say the whole contract is broken. YMMV.

[susanna]

43. Thank you, Eloriel.

I've written about ten responses that don't pack the punch of yours. I'm in full agreement.

[JSJ]

13. a better mother than the one who wigged over peace at the vigil n/t

[peach720]

19. Maybe this mother has had more time to deal with her loss.

Certainly more time to reflect on the situation.
A mother who has just lost her son is likely to "wig" at anytime or
place and that does not reflect on whether she is a good or bad mother.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. Bush needs to stand in solidarity with all fellow AWOLs

Bush was way ahead of the curve here, being an original leader of the AWOL movement.

[saigon68]

28. I DOUBT HE WILL

He and his friends are too busy making money $$$$$$$ off this Cluster-Fuck

[Eloriel]

30. I love people like this.

God bless 'em.

What if they gave a war and nobody came?

[Demonaut]

37. Eloriel please dont refer to me as "these people", that infers I dont

belong here nor that I support the principles of this forum, If I have an opinion thats one thing but I dont have a record of dissent.

[Eloriel]

39. You might want to reread my two previous posts to this thread

I addressed you directly in this post:

32. Seems to me, Demonaut
they're in the process of taking their rights BACK. And I approve. If the basic moral contract is broken, I say the whole contract is broken. YMMV.


And responded to the OP (re the supportive family of a slain soldier) in this post:

30. I love people like this.
God bless 'em.
What if they gave a war and nobody came?


Nowhere did I refer to you as anything, let alone "these people."

[Demonaut]

40. my bad, I guess I felt a little overwhelmed and misread your post