Sharon accuses hardliners of inciting civil war over settlements

[nadinbrzezinski]

Sharon accuses hardliners of inciting civil war over settlements
Last Updated Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:18:59 EDT
JERUSALEM - Tens of thousands of Jewish settlers and their supporters were demonstrating Sunday night in Jerusalem, against Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to evacuate Israeli settlements from Gaza and the West Bank.


INDEPTH: Middle East


Jewish settlers and their supporters demonstrate in Zion Square in downtown Jerusalem. (AP Photo)
Most of the protestors were Orthodox Jews — many of them teenagers waving Israeli flags and carrying banners.

Some carried signs featuring a picture of Sharon labeled, "The Dictator."


FROM SEP. 10, 2004: Settlers warn of potential Israeli civil war

Sharon in turn accused his opponents of fuelling potential violence. At a cabinet meeting Sunday morning, Sharon warned of statements of "grave incitement" that were "directing toward a civil war."

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2004/09/12/sharondemo040912.html

_______________________

Some backgrounder, as this may be shocking to some of you... back in '84 I spent some time in a Kibbuts in the south of Israel and you could see the proto elements of this back then. I remember coming back and telling my mom, there will be a civil war in Israel within twenty years... GOD I wish I had been wrong for many other reasons, mostly all the people who will die...

As they say, stay tuned, the games are about to get far more complex and if you thuoght the Israeli Palestinian problem was complex, just wait.

[FlemingsGhost]

1. They've made their bed, let 'em lay in it.

And when the U.S. is far too busy staving off its own implosion, who will bother to care about Israel?

We reap what we sow.

(on edit: typo)

[LiberalVoice]

2. ditto.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. How compasionate of you two

by the way, I wonder if 100 nukes flyng will be part of the festivities....

And whether you will be so happy then as well.

(Plan Samson, in case you wonder what I mean)

[LiberalVoice]

4. Do me a favor and don't lecture me on compassion.

Has sharon shown compassion? Have the majority of orthodox jews in Israel shown compassion?

I'm not happy with whats happening but you must admit karma has a way of biting you in the ass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. well well, I am not lecturing you

just think of the consequences of this...

And how it may just affect US and them, and I mean them in Jews, Arabs, Palestinains, Christians, you know the whole kit and kabbodle.

By the way, while you speak of Sharon's crimes, need I remind you of Arafat's? Both of them belong in the Hague and if a civil war breaks in Israel proper, care to lay odds on genocide, civil war in the territories, and other unforseen events.

Go ahead and celebrate karma... oh and karma may include 100 nuclear weapons.. is this what you want?

Good

[LiberalVoice]

6. I never defended Arafat.

He's a POS just like Sharon.

At this point if people don't start waking up nuclear war is inevitable. Of course it's not what I want and I spend everyday doing my best to make sure that doesn't happen.

It's not my fault the card shark happened to have been dealt a bad hand this go around.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Well then you and I need to do a lot of work

I don't hold odds on preventing this , but the first step is to try to get some possitive work here, instead of talkng about Karma.. becuase this is collective karma for the whole area... and everybody is guilty

Time we all collectively stop enabling BOTH SIDES in this conflict

that is the first step

[FlemingsGhost]

8. Who's happy about it? The same applies to the U.S.

Israelis need to bring sanity back to their nation, themselves. And we need get our own house in proper order.

The line between the two nations, and their respective geopolitical interests, are already blurred far too much.

(on edit:typo)

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yep our first stepp is getting rid of bush

The Israelis need to vote Sharon out, the Palestinians need to find a way to get rid of Arafat (all of these preferably peacefully)

This is starting to remind me incresaingly of the Summer of 1914....

[FlemingsGhost]

10. Sure, but an Israeli civil war wouldn't be Arafat's doing.

Other than the fact that he has helped to divide the nation into two, regarding how to deal with him.

If the Israelis can't find consensus (or acceptable compromise) regarding their own futures, it is their political failure. Not the Palestinians.

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Be a tad more nuanced about it

The possible civil war in the territories (yes there is more to this) is quite possibly the doing of Shin Beit, and the possible civil war in Israel is the whole West Bank and Arafat.

The dynamic is such that they feed from each other....

I could feel this twenty years ago... and now it is coming to a head

War breaks in Israel Propper I am willing to lay high odds that one will break in the territories within weeks if not months.


Oh and one more thing, I don't think Sharon is blustering either.. for once I don't believe he is...

[FlemingsGhost]

12. Then Israel needs to reach consensus, and avoid civil war.

Don't they?

As always, their futures are in their own hands. Only this time, the threat originates from within ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. that goes for everybody in the area

the palestinians and the israelis. Oh and everybody else...

[FlemingsGhost]

14. It sure does.

It's been a pleasure, nadinbrzezinski.

Good night ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. night I wish more folks

realized what is at stake thuogh

:-)

[BonjourUSA]

16. A real question !!

How a so little population of a country of less than 7 million inhabitants can piss the world off ?

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. its not only their actions (And I will be the last to justfify Sharon)

but as a student of history also 2000 years of history


Study antisemitism and I can give yuo an extensive list, and you will understand this...

Think of this in the following way... even now, most people outside the US can distinguish between bush and his cronies and the American People, but for many Jew and Israeli is the same thing....

Also I recomend you read the Protocols of the Elder of Zion, the thesis is wrong and was written as a propaganda tract in Tzarist russia, but it possits that Jews control everything...which could not be farther from the truth.

So you ask how, the question is very complex and it involves a lot of history.

Now if people could start distinguishunb between Israelis (who are now held hostage by teh policies of a right wing administration) and Sharon... it woudl be a start. The same goes for the Palestinains, people need to understand it is not every palestinian that blows up children, but a small minority who also hold them as hostages...

[BonjourUSA]

18. I could agree with you if all the Israeli population was fundamentalist

Perhaps the time could be up to look at this country as any one else.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. most Isrealis are NOT fundamentalists

You are talking of a small majority, as most Israelis are Secular Jews.

Some history is in order, these are the same wackos that stood in front of tanks in both 67 and 73, you cannot drive during the Sabath.., didn't you know that? These are teh same wackos that demanded government services and suport for their religious schools (here is a lesson for the US as Israel technically does not have separation of Church and State, a mistake in my opinion steming to 1948). These whackos now want to force their ways on 98 percent of the population and the idea that they can do as they want becuase it is God's will

They are not unlike our pals and friends in the Christian Right or Fundamentalist Muslims, they are made from teh same cloth...

As I said, try to find as much as you can on the history of Antisemitism, things like blood libel and other beauts... it will explain this collective hate to you. Oh and start reading the Israeli Press, the Ha'Aretz paper makes any so called leftist papers in the US look like a joke.

[cmd]

20. Wow, I'm actually agreeing with Sharon!

I try to stay away from discussions in this area, but have long considered Sharon's shortsightedness part of the problem in the I/P conflict. Thank goodness he is speaking out. I hope the hardliners will take a long look at what is happening. Thanks for the post, nadinbrzezinski.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Oh I tend to stay out of the subject in pulbic as well

but this is too big to ignore due to what this woudl do to the area,
further destablization, and we truly need that NOT

[cmd]

22. I agree completely

Good luck to you and your nation.