Will draft fears sway voters? (Cleland and Dean talk to students)

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON - Elect John Kerry, Vice President Dick Cheney warned voters in Iowa two weeks ago, and America will get hit again by terrorists.

Elect George Bush, some Kerry surrogates said last week, and you or your children will be drafted to fight in Iraq.
......
Warning college students
In a speech at Colorado College in Colorado Springs, Cleland told students they might find themselves pressed into military service if Bush wins a second term.

"Pay attention ... to what you've got going on in Iraq. That, ladies and gentlemen, is Vietnam. I've seen this movie before. I know how it ends. It does not end pleasantly," he added. Cleland has been in a wheelchair since 1968 when he lost both legs and one arm in a grenade accident in Vietnam.

Former Kerry rival Howard Dean, now traveling the country to drum up support for Kerry and raise money for Democratic candidates, said last week at Brown University in Providence, R.I., "I think that George Bush is certainly going to have a draft if he goes into a second term, and any young person that doesn't want to go to Iraq might think twice about voting for him."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6027815/

[WLKjr]

1. I think they just might want to think about voting period

Just getting out to vote is the first step. I just hope we have enough sense to vote the right way. (i'm in college myself)

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I knew the draaft was gonna become an issue

Just that Kerry could not directly do it.

Way to go Max, WHOOHOO Dean! That said folks, the fact we are having this conversation is frightening...

[EST]

4. Kerry has made a HUGE issue of it,

the last couple of days. (Speech exerpts on TV)

[saigon68]

27. Getting drafty in here

You bet the CHIMPANZEE will do it-- with a congress eager to service Cheney et al, getting its knee pads on--- its a DONE DEAL.

[Javaman]

3. If moron is reappointed, the draft is a fact.

[bluestateguy]

5. If Bush wins this will be my policy:

I am a university insructor, and hopefully will be on the tenure track in a year or two. I will ask any young man asking for my assistance to avoid the draft or a letter of recommendation for CO status who they voted for in 2004. If they voted for Kerry they get my help. If they voted for Bush, Nader or did not vote, I will tell them they they are getting what they deserve and that they can expect no help from me. If someone was too young to vote in 2004, I will play it on a case by case basis.

[tblue37]

29. Bluestateguy,

how could you help anyone avoid the draft? There will be no college deferments this time.

[flaminbats]

31. doesn't that cross a professional line?

We have a secret ballot for a reason. I'm very proud of the way I vote, but I cast my ballot for the benefit of no single person..least of all a professor!

I may vote for John Kerry, but this does not make me more qualified for your letter of recommendation than another person, who says they voted for John Kerry but really didn't. I knew great students who stopped voting after 1968 because of being beaten up in Chicago, or feeling betrayed by both parties on the draft issue. This didn't make them less qualified for CO status. Nor would giving CO status, because some are willing to lie about who they voted for, make anyone more responsible. :thumbsdown:

Many are willing to brown nose while others will not, and Republicans will do anything which bolsters only their self-interests. :smoke:

[Pathwalker]

33. Your vote is NOT secret. You vote IN secret.

When you vote this Nov., pay attention at the check in table. Once your name is found in the voter registration book, you will see the worker pick up a ballot. That ballot has a number on it, and that number will be written next to your name. They will be able to verify WHO you voted for, simply by matching the ballot to your name.
That is how it is done in MICHIGAN. There is no "secret ballot" in Michigan - period.

Is there a "secret ballot" in your state?

[flaminbats]

36. we use social security numbers as voter ID in my state...

our state now uses computerized ballots. Before it used #2 pencil scan ballots. A machine counted the votes, and poll workers merely fed the ballots into the machine. I don't remember seeing a number on top of any paper ballot that I used. The only number I ever remember reading next to my name when I voted was my Social Security number.

But even if a poll worker could identify my ballot, I would certainly expect them to be discharged or even arrested if they started reporting my votes to anyone at all!

[calimary]

35. Harsh measures, but an even harsher reality. Can't say that I

disagree too greatly about this. There HAVE to be consequences. The whole agonizing theme of this toxic regime has been NONaccountability. NO ONE has been held accountable or responsible for their misdeeds, screw-ups, and lousy judgment. NO ONE. If they willingly drink the Kool-aid and buy into that crap, AGAIN, after we've had a FOUR YEAR TRACK RECORD that's perhaps the MOST dismal four years in American history, well...

Yeah. This one's hard. But the realities are, or (heaven forbid) will be a LOT harder.

[MrSlayer]

6. I have turned a few kids that post on my board with this.

War stops being fun and entertaining and cool when it's your ass out there in the desert getting shot at.

[mconvente]

7. I'd rather go to jail

Seriously, I'm not gonna risk my life for Bush's war. Though that may hurt my chances of an Obama-Convente 2020 ticket and a Convente-DUer 2028 ticket!

[Eloriel]

13. GOOD FOR YOU!! I support you 100%

"What if they gave a war and nobody came?" -- back by popular demand from the 60s

And don't kid yourself. All this Vietnam controversy about Kerry and what he said and did when he returned home -- HE was on the right side then, and he and many, many others helped the country see it well enough that that war DID get ended. IOW: there did come a time when most of the country understood it was a bad war, for bad reasons, and was unwinnable. The same will happen (is already happening) in this country. Your refusal to serve (if it comes to that) will help and will be vindicated. I salute you.

[Scooter24]

23. We could share a cell...

besides, I could always use the free time to study for a Ph.D. lol

[GaryL]

8. Who thinks those under 30 will vote?

I listened to 3 old farts who worked for news organizations on CSPAN today and they laughed at the idea that young voters would be energized this election any more than any other election. Of course, they also lamented how John Kerry is stiff and rambles on when he talks. Regardless, I hope they're wrong for the sake of a lot of these kids. I also love the guys at work who say THEY won't be drafted and I gently remind them that people were drafted up to the age of 45 during WW 2!

[Suzie57]

10. My 18 year old is registered

ready to vote & working on his friends and co-workers to do the same. Pre-Iraq he was pretty apolitical but now he is disgusted with Bush. He is paying attention now, which is a major change with this kid.

[LisaL]

12. Knowing Bush and Co,

He could draft everybody up to 80 years old. I wonder how happy freepers are going to be if they could be send to war? They all will grow anal cysts, no doubt of that.

[Ol Sugar Coat]

9. Look at Bush/Rumsfeld's statements on this subject - big time hedging

You can plainly see how they're doing the classic politician's hedge ... "We don't need a draft" is their programmed response to this question, NOT "We will not institute compulsory military service." Let's face facts: They've HAD to have this discussion, given how Iraq is going. So, they've concluded that the proper response is the evasive "We don't need a draft." People need to know that these assholes are keeping the option open by how they answer/don't answer this simple question: "Will you reinstitute a draft?"

[Suzie57]

11. Who would believe their answer anyway?

How does anyone believe a word out of their mouths?

[antigone382]

14. Welcome to DU, Suzie57 and Ol Sugar Coat

A couple of interesting/frightening things concerning the draft, that you won't hear about on the news:

A. They have already started hiring people to fill positions on the draft board that have been dormant for years.

B. The Selective Service is designing procedures for a "skills draft" for male and female Americans ages 18-34. It would be for the Pentagon and Homeland Security.

I don't remember the links for this off-hand, but give me a minute and I'll go ferret them out and post them here.

[antigone382]

15. links

About hiring people to fill the draft board:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

About the skills draft:

http://www.blatanttruth.org/draft.php

These are just two links. Do a google and you'll get tons more.

[Nashyra]

16. At the Cheney protest yesterday some idiot got in my face

after I told him to go sign up in *'s army, so my son would not have to go, he basically said that the military had given me the right to be protesting and that I did not deserve to be there. I told him my father was a Korean vet and my husband a vietnam vet and my son was planning to go when he graduated and what was his lazy ass doing there instead of already signing up. I told him he could vote with an absentee ballot. A news reporter asked me if my son was already in Iraq and I told him he wants to go into the military when he graduates and go to officers training school, so "I wanted to make sure that he had a Commander in Chief I could trust with his life and it was certainly not Bush, I will work to the bare bones to help elect Kerry" It was printed in the paper today. Also got a letter about 9-11 printed, I'll post it later as it was rather long, surprised me they printed it.

[antigone382]

18. Way to go, Nashyra!

Don't let those freeper cowards get away with their hypocrisy. If they believe so much in this war, they should be the ones putting their tails on the line.

I have a brother who served in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and it makes me sick when people say that you can't support the troops if you don't support the war. That brother is out of the military now, and I don't want him getting called back, nor do I want his 25-year-old twin, or my 18-year-old brother, or my 16-year-old brother, or for that matter my 10-year-old brother fighting and dying to put more money in Halliburton's bank account.

Let the guys who like to prance around like big strong men, bragging about how they think we should blow up all them thar ay-rab terrists, go see what it's like to ride around in a Hum-V with cloth doors, and nothing but a Viet Nam era flack jacket to protect yourself while RPG's are being launched at you. Let them see what the bloody remains of Iraqi women and children look like up close, when you don't have some FU(X) news reporter to gloss it over for you with a big grin of surgically whitened teeth. Let them suffer the effects of exposure to Depleted Uranium (not from the magical disappearing WMD's, but from our own bombs) years down the road, not to mention PTSD and God only knows what else. If they believe in this war so much, they should sign up for it themselves, instead of telling me that I've got to stand by and smile while their president prepares to order my brothers over there (and possibly me, a 20-year-old woman, as well).

(Rant off).

On edit: BTW, I am voting in this election, as is my 18-year-old brother, as are all of our friends. Most of the people I talk to at school are registered to vote, and will vote for Kerry also. A few Naderites, but I'm working on them (after all, we can't all be born geniuses, now can we? :))

[txindy]

21. Wow!

Excellent! :yourock:

[steely]

34. Bravo Nashyra !!

Nice comeback - and congrats on the coverage.

As a vet (but not of a foriegn war), the amount of stupidity and arrogance of those embracing a war path, when they themselves never served, completely astounds me. I recall disagreeing with co-workers just before we went to Afghanistan - they were pro war, and labeled me a puss - you should have seen their faces when I asked them in what branch of the military had they served. Man they shut up fast.

[JetCityLiberal]

39. I am at my keyboard giving you a standing ovation

great post.

Thank you Nashyra.

:thumbsup:

JetCityLiberal

[roseBudd]

17. A poster about the draft for printing

o http://somnamblst.tripod.com to download high resolution TIF or PDF file to print. Plaster these on campus.

[antigone382]

19. Already printed

I'll be copying these and posting them all over my college on Monday.

I also printed one of the Flop-Flipper posters. They look excellent and I think they'll really have an effect.

[roseBudd]

20. I want to swap in alternate text on the FLOP FLIPPER poster

Please send your suggestions to my inbox

I really want to contrast recent short concise quotes about the mess that is Iraq with Bush's sunny recent spin

The stupider he sounds the better. Will need to come from a local news transcript from a campaign stop.

[leftchick]

25. Excellent Job rosebud57!

I printed mine up and will make copies this weekend. When the rain stops I will be posting them ALL over town!! :)

[fortyfeetunder]

22. This will not wake up the freeper kids.

Or those among the rich and famous. Trust me they will find a way out of the draft.

[sr_pacifica]

24. I'm not so sure Bush et al want a draft

It's in his best interest to continue as is: extended tours of duty, sending National Guard, Reservists, etc.. Because draftees will come from political persuasions other than Neoconics and rah-rah Bushites. They will NOT be a gung-ho lot.

[quaker bill]

26. I am not so sure.

I agree that "They will NOT be a gung-ho lot" as this was clear from experience in Vietnam. However, this is the crew that apparently believed that the Iraqi's would welcome us as "liberators".

Neocons are possessed of a nearly unique "romance novel vision" of the US, their policies, and how the rest of the world will react to them. You can hear it when Bush says "They hate us for our values and our freedom" or some such other tripe. (Actually, it is much simpler, they hate us because we are killing them.)

Since, as they see it, all young American men should love our values and freedom, they could see the draft in an entirely different manner. Your conclusion that the draft will be politically unpopular arises from a sane world view that is connected to reality. There is little evidence that neocons come from the same place or would reach the same conclusion.

[Blue Gardener]

28. Write a LTTE to the college newspaper

Make sure you mention it will be both men AND women that get drafted this time around. If you have to scare them into voting, then so be it. If the repubs can use fear to get people to vote, then so can we.

[tblue37]

30. A 20-yr-old

totally apolitical college girl I know broke down in tears when I told her about the draft plans--and about the likelihood that women would also be drafted. Now she is telling all her friends, and even wrote an essay for her English class about how her peers need to wake up to the danger they are in if Bush is elected.

The draft is the issue that will pull young voters and even young nonvoters to the sane side in this election.

[Blue Gardener]

32. Print out the poster for her

In the above post and have her pass it around.

[tblue37]

37. Excellent idea. n/t

[Comadreja]

38. You're Gonna Get Drafted: There's no way around it

You're Gonna Get Drafted: There's no way around it now, the draft is almost a certainty. http://seetheforest.blogspot.com/2004_09_01_seetheforest_archive.html#109546822828362236

You're Gonna Get Drafted

The Draft – A Reason to Vote if You’re Under 30

You already blew it: You didn't vote last time, or voted for Nader or Bush, and now you're gonna get drafted. There's no way around it now, the draft is almost a certainty.

You're hearing about Reserve and National Guard units being called up, and about people not allowed to leave the military even though their term is up. Have you thought about what this means to you? You KNOW this means they're having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq, right? Of course Bush doesn’t want to start the draft BEFORE the election. Duh! But what do you think happens the day AFTER the election?

I repeat, they are having trouble finding enough soldiers to go to Iraq. Think about it. Right, you're gonna get drafted.

Or, maybe you think they can't do that? Maybe you think the draft doesn't happen in America. Maybe you think they can't just grab your ass up off the street, stick a rifle in your hands and send you off to war? Of course not, that NEVER happens. Right.

WAR. Yes, that word. The word you have been hearing from Bush’s lips for months now. "I'm a WAR president", he says. Well, what did you think war MEANS? Somebody ELSE’S war? Did you think it means you get to watch a TV show with planes and stuff?

No, WAR means young people getting grabbed up off the street and sent off to fight. That. Is. What. War. Is.

And, by the way, women and students are NOT going to be exempt this time. Maybe not even rich kids. ONLY the children of politicians will be exempt. THIS TIME.

So, are you finally ready to do something about it THIS TIME? Which candidate do you think is more likely to grab your ass off the street and send it to Iraq? Which candidate do you think is more likely to start a war with Iran, or Syria, or maybe even North Korea? Like Bush says, we're at war, and that's the issue in this election. Well, THAT’S what you should be thinking about THIS TIME.

So vote. THIS TIME.

==========

Except there's a problem with this message. Young people are so disengaged that there probably aren't very many of them reading weblogs like this one, so they won't see this. And that means they might not figure this stuff out in time for the election. You have to help them. Take this post and copy it and paste it into an e-mail and send it to someone who is under 30. Or write your own message explaining what the draft is, and why they should be concerned enough to actually vote. It is important to explain that the draft actually CAN happen to them. If you're old enough you can tell them from experience.