CBS News Concludes It Was Misled on National Guard Memos

[Goldmund]

After days of expressing confidence about the documents used in a "60 Minutes'' report that raised new questions about President Bush's National Guard service, CBS News officials have grave doubts about the authenticity of the material, network officials said last night.

The officials, who asked not to be identified, said CBS News would most likely make an announcement as early as today that it had been deceived about the documents' origins. CBS News has already begun intensive reporting on where they came from, and people at the network said it was now possible that officials would open an internal inquiry into how it moved forward with the report. Officials say they are now beginning to believe the report was too flawed to have gone on the air.

But they cautioned that CBS News could still pull back from an announcement. Officials met last night with Dan Rather, the anchor who presented the report, to go over the information it had collected about the documents one last time before making a final decision. Mr. Rather was not available for comment late last night.

The report relied in large part on four memorandums purported to be from the personal file of Mr. Bush's squadron commander, Lt. Col. Jerry B. Killian, who died 20 years ago. The memos, dated from the early 1970's, said that Colonel Killian was under pressure to "sugar coat'' the record of the young Lieutenant Bush and that the officer had disobeyed a direct order to take a physical.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/politics/campaign/20guard.html?pagewanted=all&position=

[Mojambo]

1. Here we go!

Get ready for the Cable Opinion channels to go ballistic and the real story behind Bush: TANG will never be told.

The only thing left to find out is whether the Rove media will successfully plant the idea of Kerry collaboration in the public's mind.

A shining moment for Rove.

[blackcat77]

2. Yep and that's why I think Rove is responsible.

This was the best of all worlds for them, which is why they were SOOOOOO anxious to distribute those documents so that the press could discover the obvious problems with the documents.

All they needed was one dupe to go public with them as authentic.

Now both the documents *and* what the documents said are politically radioactive.

[BOHICA06]

10. If it was Rove ....

...it was ruthlessly effective.

To watch CBS and others continuously run themselves through on their own sword must entertain the evil one to no end.

[Mike Niendorff]

12. I think that's a definite possibility

It's very similar to the approach they used to discredit questions about Bush's history of cocaine use. If the can't silence the truth alltogether, then they try to control the manner of its dissemination -- ie: they disclose the truth themselves, but do it in a way that will be disbelieved. Extremely sleazy, extremely dishonest, and, sadly, extremely effective.

If it does turn out that these documents were forged/copied/whatever, then CBS should raise heaven and earth to get to the bottom of (1) where these documents originated and (2) why the Bushies (who received advance copies of them prior to McClellan's interview) made no objections as to their authenticity, either on grounds of appearance OR (and this is important) on grounds of content.

Did the Bush people know something that CBS didn't? And, if so, how did they acquire that knowledge? OTOH, if they didn't see anything wrong with the docs, why not (given how damaging their content was to the Bushies)?

Questions, questions, questions.


MDN

[murielm99]

18. You worded the questions exactly the way they should be asked

I think you should e-mail them to Dan Rather.

Yes, he is intelligent, and probably will ask these questions and more.

But every little bit helps. It also shows support.

:thumbsup:

[stacysangeltouch]

71. I can see it now!

I can see it now! The headlines will read- The Bush administration told the media his inside info- saying, "How can those documents be real, I had the bought and paid for military heads to destroy all of them documents years ago", now go run with that lead and dicredit those documents!

[eduardito]

34. one dupe

"All they needed was one dupe to go public with them as authentic."

Excuse me, but weren't the majority of posters on this site still proclaiming that the docs were authentic as of last night????? Still claiming that an IBM selectric produced them. They could have filled their dupe quorem here quite easily

[mdredmond]

36. I was thinking the same thing & then saw your post

I've been skeptical of a docs from the beginning. Seems alot the posters here were the document's biggest proponents ('hey look at these'). Now that the problems (that were evident from the beginning) seem to be true, let's blame it on someone else. I said on day one that CBS did Kerry a huge diservice - and well, well, looks like that's the case. The TXANG story will never grow legs - any future attempt to bring out the truth will be associated with this mess. Thanks Dan. Asshole.

The shrill whiny cries from the far left in our party are going to lose us this election.

[leesa]

37. Yes. Far better we all be ruthless lying Conservatives.

I also figured they were Rove plants from the beginning because the Freepers knew the talking points right away. I guess from your RW perspective I am a whiny left-wing that is going to lose this election for you fine right wingers.

Quit blaming people that aren't doing this. It is the GOP and their media that are the enemy.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yardwork]

86. An IBM typewriter of that vintage could easily have produced the memos

There is no question of that in my mind. Those memos were typed, not word processed.

Typed and authentic are two different things. I don't remember many (if any) posters here who were sure the documents were authentic. In all my posts - which I stand by 100% - I stated that the memos could have been typed, but that meant nothing about their authenticity.

They were typed but they could have been typed minutes before being sent to CBS. We've said that all along. I still say it.

[Ricdude]

6. So email your friends a song...

...to inform them of the real story. Check out "Bringer of War (Bring It On)", available via my .sig. Enjoy.

[IndianaGreen]

23. I thought the CBS documents were forgeries, but now I am thinking set up

The reason is because of CBS account that they sent a young correspondent to speak to a Mr. Bartlett (sic) at the White House in order to verify the authenticity of the documents. The WH aide confirmed the documents were authentic, or did not challenge them, according to CBS's version of events.

What if the WH knew all along the documents were forgeries that could easily been debunked? Why did they fail to challenge the documents before the CBS broadcast?

I wonder if Burkett confirmed he was the author of the forgeries, or whether he merely passed to CBS something that he was given by someone else. If that is the case, who is the author of the forgeries?

[Zhade]

24. Damn good points. I'd just started thinking this was a set-up.

I didn't even know about the fact that the WH had seen these before the story.

This really is classic Rove. Remember Fortunate Son. That's the Rosetta Stone.

[stacysangeltouch]

72. Documents

If I remember correctly, the secretary to Killian did say that she didn't write the documents in question, but that the info in them was correct, and Mr. Burkit, overheard officials talking about shredding info in Bush's file, and that he retrieved some of those documents. Now there is stories about these accounts posted on the web, that was posted years ago, way before Bush was running for Pres. And Burkit claims that he and his family has been threatened and harrassed by Bush's administration or flunkies and thatBush has gotten the military to refuse him medical treatment that he is entitled to.

[stacysangeltouch]

73. Whoops

Im sorry, Bartlett

[0007]

31. A set-up all the way in my mind's eye,

Burkett got sucked in and then sucked off!!

Did CBS indeed buy into the scam?
I don't think so!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

46. A five-year set-up? Interesting.

[fdr_hst_fan]

62. It WAS a Rove set-up,

no doubt about it; the question is: do we sink to their level? I SAY YES! IT'S LONG PAST TIME WE STARTED PLAYING DIRTY! HITLER AND THE NAZIS DID IT, MCCARTHY DID IT, NIXON DID IT, SMIRK'S DOING IT NOW-WHY SHOULDN'T WE?

:mad:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

50. The headline and the body of the article don't match up, IMHO...

The headline says the following:

"CBS News Concludes It Was Misled on National Guard Memos, Network Officials Say"

But the text states (excerpts):

"The officials, who asked not to be identified, said CBS News would most likely make an announcement as early as today that it had been deceived about the documents' origins."

....Unnamed sources at CBS? That's an old trick to cover where the information is REALLY coming from.

"But they cautioned that CBS News could still pull back from an announcement."

....If the NYT was as sure of this story as their misleading headline claims, that disclaimer would never have been added to this article.

[Protected]

3. I figured this was coming

There's something really strange going on with the "content is true, but the documents are fake" storyline. CBS and Dan Rather evidently put too much weight on the fact that Dan Bartlett didn't question the memos.

[alarcojon]

35. This story confirms your last point

From the New York Times. It says CBS execs weren't sure of the authenticity of the documents until...

Suddenly, the answer seemed to materialize, and from an unlikely source — the White House itself.

John Roberts, the network's White House correspondent, called to report he'd just completed an on-camera interview with Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director. Bartlett, it appeared, had no quarrel with the authenticity of the documents.

That was the turning point.

"If we had gotten back from the White House any kind of red flag, raised eyebrow, anything that said, 'Are you sure about this stuff?' we would have gone back to square one," Josh Howard, the program's executive producer, told the Los Angeles Times in an interview Friday. "The White House said they were authentic, and that carried a lot of weight with us."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&e=7&u=/latimests/intherushforascoopcbsfoundtroublefast

[Leilani]

4. The worst part is, it will be the top story

& Kerry will again find it hard to get his message out.

[AndyTiedye]

22. Kerry Will NEVER Get His Message Out Through This Media

They simply will not air it. No way, no how. Never.

[Elginoid]

32. well, he hasn't been able to so far...

all i keep hearing him say is that he "has a plan"...

[Erika]

5. The Public Is Sick Of Vietnam/TANG debates

Many of my Republican and Democratic friends are sick and tired of these issues and consider them moot.In the last week both sides have said, can't we just move on to today's issues. Who cares what the cable news discuss. Only a minority watches them

All will admit that the privilged commonly found a way out of serving in Nam. Kerry chose to go. We've made a point.

[Voltaire99]

26. Exactly. It's a narrow issue with no wide traction.

People, as opposed to message board junkies, just don't care. Move on. Talk about what matters. Duh!

Five weeks to go, and *this* isn't looking pretty: electoral-vote.com. We need answers, we need them fast, and not a one of them has anything to do with who went to Vietnam and who didn't.

[JohnnyCougar]

7. What if this is a bluff?

To get the WH to condemn the memos even more before they release the originals? They haven't retracted it just yet.

I just find it so hard to believe that they would do this kind of report without the originals, or with out more hard evidence.

If there is nothing more to this story, CBS only has themselves to blame for the ensuing fiasco.

[Eye and Monkey]

15. I'm leaning the same way as you.

It seems that the savvy vets involved would have known that this would be attacked seven ways to Sunday, and they would have checked the docs at the microscopic level.

Maybe they did. Maybe they found Karl Rove's fingerprints on the pages.

Otherwise - for shame, for they will have blown this and made it more difficult to hold Smirko accountable for this and other failings.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. I somehow doubt that CBS would have spent five years on this story....

...without knowing that they had the goods.

Something else is going on here...and it may involve some folks at CBS that are allied with the NeoCons that want Dan out.

[AlCzervik]

8. the set up of Dan Rather and CBS worked well

I am hoping to God they still have a card up their sleeves. Otherwise this story is the ultimate jab at so called liberal media and an excellent way for the RNC to raise huge money from sympathic conservatives that think Georgie has been done wrong.

[Erika]

11. Georgie Done Wrong By Not Going To Nam.

Kerry went. It's time we abandon this issue and let CBS be held accountable on its own. Again, most people could care less. Do you let cable news dictate your opinions and views? I might suggest you read world wires instead. This election is about the future, not the past.

[AlCzervik]

16. No i dont watch cable new nor doI let it dictate my opinions thank you

[Virginian]

52. I don't care who went to 'Nam. I care who is responsible and truthful.

It is a personality pattern in Bush to shirk responsibility -- all responsibility. If he gets re-selected, it will be the first time he has had to clean up after himself. Don't expect anything great in that "effort."

I don't care that he got into the Guard, lots of priviledged kids did. What bugs me was that he 1) didn't fulfill his obligation and 2) considers himself a Viet Nam era vet when he should have been in the brig.
If he had served responsibly and honorably in the Guard, that would have been enough for me.

I consider him a Chicken Hawk. If he disrespected the Guard so much that he thought he could just walk away, he shouldn't be forcing today's Guardsmen to do anything they don't want to do either.

I consider this war worse than Viet Nam. There are no safe havens where an American can retreat after his or her shift. Even the Green Zone has been proven to be a dangerous location.

Our vets are going to come back from this with major emotional trauma. This is not a time to be cutting their benefits.

[jwirr]

67. Responsible and Truthful

We should never have started playing the Repugs game. The Convention made it clear that John Kerry had fulfilled his duty in Vietnam. That was enough. We should have come out of that convention talking current issues and not let the Repugs distract us. Instead we have wasted a lot of time. It is not too late. The issues are: Iraq war, jobs, health care, outsourcing, environment, schools, educating for the future, lose of the middle class, taxation of the middle class and poor, etc. Pick one and begin to educate people. These are the issues they understand and that touch their lives.

[girl gone mad]

25. Remember the book..

Bias that Bush was photographed carrying on the WH lawn? Wasn't that primarily an anti-CBS, anti-60 minutes book?

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Do you think that Bill Burkett is really working for the GOP?

:shrug:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

48. Absolutely not. What do you know about Burkett's history?

[AlCzervik]

49. No i don't, i think that maybe the docs didn't come from him at all

No one knows if Dan Rather was going to Burkett about the docs or even if went to Texas to See him, for all we know he went to see someone else.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kestrel91316]

9. Here's my theory on what happened...................

there REALLY WERE documents saying what these did (in Killian's files) which is why the secretary vouched for the content. These actual docs (given to CBS) are retyped, slightly altered versions of the originals. I think Rove somehow got ahold of the originals or copies of them, recognized them as dangerous to Bush, and made the "forgeries" and slipped them via an intermediary to CBS. By making them less than perfect forgeries, he knew eventually they would be deemed such, and then the information in them would also be extremely suspect (even though the information is absolutely correct). Never doubt how clever and evil KKKarl is, folks. So now the media will be busy telling all of us that the momos by definition caontained pure lies, because the memos were "forgeries".

[Erika]

14. The Public Doesn't Really Care!

They want to know about the issues affecting the country now. EVERYONE KNOWS Bush received special treatment. Who cares about memos. You'ld be wise to take Clinton's advice and move on from Nam.

[the Kelly Gang]

13. if it's big news it still opens the way for Kerry to demand Bush clear up

once and for all time his history in the NG..and that he wont be able to do..you must not think everyone is stupid enough to believe these memeos are the be all and end all

[BOHICA06]

17. Pray that their was no connection to ..

any one in the Kerry campaign.

This whole thing seems to be a BFEE mission - destroy Rather in a humiliating way.

[Yupster]

20. If they admit the memos are fakes, then

Rather is done.

Expect the network to have "full confidence" in him. Then he'll be quietly retired in a few months.

[Greyhawk]

55. How can CBS' comments help Kerry?

All this does is give cover to never hear the real story about *'s TANG service... No one will believe any further report on the matter, no news org will want to touch it because of the CBS mess... This issue is dead and we'd better change the subject before it becomes damaging to Kerry.

Imagine if someone in Kerry's campaign even touched the memos... Then the whiff of a Kerry "dirty tricks" rumor would take off...

[Carolab]

19. Palast on "lynching" of Rather

THE LYNCHING OF DAN RATHER
On British TV, Dan feared the price of "asking questions"
By Greg Palast

September 21, 2004 00:29

"It's that fear that keeps journalists from asking the toughest of the tough questions," the aging American journalist told the British television audience.

In June 2002, Dan Rather looked old, defeated, making a confession he dare not speak on American TV about the deadly censorship -- and self-censorship -- which had seized US newsrooms. After September 11, news on the US tube was bound and gagged. Any reporter who stepped out of line, he said, would be professionally lynched as un-American.

"It's an obscene comparison," he said, "but there was a time in South Africa when people would put flaming tires around people's necks if they dissented. In some ways, the fear is that you will be necklaced here. You will have a flaming tire of lack of patriotism put around your neck." No US reporter who values his neck or career will "bore in on the tough questions."

<snip>
Indeed, Dan is in hot water for a report my own investigative team put in Britain's Guardian papers and on BBC TV years ago. Way back in 1999, I wrote that former Texas Lt. Governor Ben Barnes had put in the fix for little George Bush to get out of 'Nam and into the Air Guard.

What is hot news this month in the USA is a five-year-old story to the rest of the world. And you still wouldn't see it in the USA except that Dan Rather, with a 60 Minutes producer, finally got fed up and ready to step out of line. And, as Dan predicted, he stuck out his neck and got it chopped off.

Is Rather's report accurate? Is George W. Bush a war hero or a privileged little Shirker-in-Chief? Today I saw a goofy two page spread in the Washington Post about a typewriter used to write a memo with no significance to the draft-dodge story. What I haven't read about in my own country's media is about two crucial documents supporting the BBC/CBS story. The first is Barnes' signed and sworn affidavit to a Texas Court, from 1999, in which he testifies to the Air Guard fix -- which Texas Governor George W. Bush, given the opportunity, declined to challenge.

And there is a second document, from the files of US Justice Department, again confirming the story of the fix to keep George's white bottom out of Vietnam. That document, shown last year in the BBC television documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," correctly identifies Barnes as the bag man even before his 1999 confession.

At BBC, we also obtained a statement from the man who made the call to the Air Guard general on behalf of Bush at Barnes' request. Want to see the document? I've posted it at:

<more> http://www.gregpalast.com/

[Kolesar]

28. There is that "necklaced " quote by Dan Rather

We have seen some criticism of the bush administration this year in the media. However, they are still getting a "sugar coated" treatment by the US media.

[candy331]

42. A conscience Dan is a dangerous thing if you don't have original documents

to back you up in this world, an eyewitness is bought over and over by the highest bidder/threats of cement shoes and airplane crashes.

Dan said all these things to a British audience. However, back in the USA, he smothered his conscience and told his TV audience: "George Bush is the President. He makes the decisions. He wants me to line up, just tell me where."

[Princess Turandot]

21. It's curious that the NYT also released its story abt the 'early years'..

at the same time as this. It's as if they are capitalizing on the CBS hoopla by publishing an article which infers many of the same things.

[lynne]

27. Washington Post publishes similar article "CBS Misled"

CBS to Say It Was Misled on Bush Guard Memos
Network Plans to Issue Statement on Disputed Documents Used on '60 Minutes' Broadcast

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 20, 2004; Page A14
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34151-2004Sep19.html

CBS News plans to issue a statement, perhaps as early as today, saying that it was misled on the purported National Guard memos the network used to charge that President Bush received favored treatment 30 years ago.

The statement would represent a huge embarrassment for the network, which insisted for days that the documents reported by Dan Rather on "60 Minutes" are authentic. But the statement could help defuse a crisis that has torn at the network's credibility.

It is not clear whether the statement will include an apology for a story now believed to be based on forged documents, although that is under consideration, sources familiar with the matter said. The sources said they could not be identified because CBS is making no official statement.

CBS has stood by the story, even as numerous document experts have called the memos forgeries and a former secretary in Bush's Guard unit told reporters, including Rather, that the memos were fake -- although she said they reflected the feelings of Bush's former squadron commander in the Texas Air National Guard.

The statement was being hammered out last night after Rather went to Texas to tape an interview with Bill Burkett, the retired Guard official widely believed to have helped provide "60 Minutes" with the memos. Burkett, who has urged Democratic activists to wage "war" against Republican "dirty tricks," would not comment in an e-mail to The Washington Post on whether he had been CBS's confidential source.

CBS News President Andrew Heyward, while declining to comment on what interviews the network may be conducting, said yesterday: "We've said we are trying very hard to get to the bottom of these questions."

Burkett, who retired from the Austin headquarters of the Guard in 1998, has said he once saw some of Bush's military records in a trash can. He also says he overheard a conversation among Guard officials about sanitizing the president's military records, which Guard officials strongly deny.

Burkett's motivation could be suspect because he said in a Web posting last month that he tried to contact John F. Kerry's presidential campaign with information for a "counteratack."

Over the weekend, Bush told the Manchester, N.H., Union Leader that "there are a lot of questions" about the CBS documents "and they need to be answered."

Asked about Bush's remarks, Heyward said: "I don't feel any more pressure than before. I agree with President Bush that the sooner we can resolve these questions, the better."

[allemand]

29. Burkett may be to blame

"Mr. Rather interviewed Mr. Burkett on camera this weekend, and several people close to the reporting process said his answers to Mr. Rather's questions led officials to conclude that their initial confidence that the memos had come from Mr. Killian's own files was not warranted. These people indicated that Mr. Burkett had previously led the producer of the piece, Mary Mapes, to have the utmost confidence in the material.

It was unclear last night if Mr. Burkett had told Mr. Rather that he had been misled about the documents' provenance or that he had been the one who did the misleading."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/20/politics/campaign/20guard.html?pagewanted=all&position=

[RamboLiberal]

30. Exactly - I'll be curious if it traces back to Burkett

Now what he says about AWOL's records were scrubbed is probably true - in his zealousness to prove the story he may have forged the documents and tainted the story for all time.

He may be our version of O' Neill unfortunately.

I won't dismiss Rove being up to his eyeballs on this - it would be the kind of dirty trick worthy of him.

[Bread and Circus]

33. Oh wow, they really did Kerry a favor but sustaining the liberal media...

myth.

Dang, Dan Rather finally stands up to the RW smear machine and gets pulled down in the mud.

Fuck an A

[oc2002]

38. IT DOES NOT MATTER!

So what.

What if the tables where turned and the story was about Kerry?

Would the freepers be pissing and mouning that the documents where not authenicated beyond a doubt? HELL NO!

They would bombard the media with the CONTENT of the story!

And that is what we should be doing. Its the CONTENT stupid.

Whether CBS 'screwed up' or not is not really that important to the story, the more important issues is that none of what is in those documents(content)is being disputed by the Bush administration.

1. Bush never completed his physical, and got away with it.
2. Disobeyed a direct order in time of war, and got away with it.
3. Got his Daddy to pull strings to get into a safe guard unit, at home, away f rom Vietnam in a time of war, and got away with it.
4. His Daddy and the GOP sent its operatives to scrub his service record at TANG, and got away with it.
5. Lied about his record in his autobiography, and has yet to be held accountable, and got away with it.
6. A review of records shows that not only did he miss months of duty in 1972, but that he also may have been improperly awarded credit for service, making possible an early honorable discharge so he could turn his attention to a new interest: Harvard Business School, and got away with it.
7. He never has answered questions about his cocaine and alcohol addiction until he was forty years old, and got away with it.

How did he get away with all this? Its simple, he has always had a gold plated spoon in his mouth, and every time he screwed up, his rich Texas Daddy, cleaned it up.

So what, to some people none of these matter, and to some that want someone that is not a bald faced liar for their President that has a clear history of getting away with breaking rules everyone else has to follow, well, it actually matters to them.

[frankly_fedup2]

40. CBS gives up AGAIN!

What is wrong with CBS and who runs it? They cave in every time whether they are right or wrong. Like the lady that was interviewed said, "The documents look fake, but the information is correct." Did ANYONE hear that at CBS.

If I were Dan Rather I would turn in my resignation over CBS not backing his reporting AGAIN. He is probably stuck in a contract; however, I would get on some of the other talk shows and state my opinion if I were he.

Just goes to show yet again that in a capitalistic society, corporations protect other corporations . . . ethics means nothing to these people . . . just power, money, and greed.

I am thoroughly disgusted with it all.

[GoldenOldie]

43. Documents Fake but contents still true

[NSXBill]

44. Burkett said he gave documents to Max Clelan...

What do you all make of this?

He said this in one of his internet postings.

[Tempest]

58. Burkett made no such claim

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/06/politics/main641481.shtml

[bobbyboucher]

65. That's today's Repube bullshit blastfax story anyway.

Thanks for sharing it with us. Are you on the fax list or did you just poop-scoop it off of Limpdick?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. NYT is pulling the old "unnamed sources" routine....

...I'm surprised so may people fall for that crap, over and over again.

Here's the exact quote:

"The officials, who asked not to be identified..."

[Killer Poodle]

51. CBS has bungled this and diluted the message.

When you have the most evil, derisive bastard in the world running Bush's campaign, you better vet your documents well if you are going to do an expose piece like that. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.. And the important, true part of the report has been buried under the avalanche of this memo's apparent falsehood..

[Virginian]

57. And the WH has mangled the messenger but not disputed the message.

AGAIN! That's what they always do. No one remembers the message. But they never again believe the messenger.

[rhite5]

53. This story is not over.

Re-read the Greg Palas piece and look at the dates and the details.

• Authentic evidence exists

• The story was broadcast and published two years ago in the UK and Europe. It was blocked off to American audiences.

• Those of us who have read and followed Palast knew the story of Bush's time at TANG.

Given those three facts, I do not think CBS can afford to back off. If those facts become well known, CBS would look pretty silly and very weak.

To some extent what is happening here is a TEST of what the American people want in their television news -- the whole truth about the important stuff or titillating pap and a "gotcha" game?

We are fighting censorship and intimidation here. We need to fight smarter.

As someone said upthread -- Plenty of Americans care about the quality of the man who sits in the White House and whether he should be given 4 more years. They do not give a damn about whether a certain typewriter font existed or not or whether somebody's playing a game by running copies through Kinkos 15 times.

It's up to US to keep moving the focus back to what is important, NOT focus on whether this is the particular evidence that proves it. At some point the REAL evidence will surface.

[mdredmond]

54. CBS already looks silly and weak

Time to move on to things that actually matter to people instead of letting this albatross drag Kerry into the ground.

[Bridget Burke]

60. Again with the "move on"

CBS is dealing with this.

Kerry is not the candidate with an AWOL albatross tied around his neck.

[bobbyboucher]

66. Lots of 'move on" advice from

new posters. Maybe they are right, let's move on. Yeah, what the fuck ever.

[w4rma]

56. The headline is lying. Although it will probably happen, it's lying. (nt)

[Gregorian]

61. People, let's get on with the show.

I swear, this feels like a family that has sat down for dinner, and there's a turd on the table. They're discussing whether it came from a cat or a dog. What the hell difference does it make. Bush is a phoney. Screw the memos. We just spent two weeks on this. Get the turd off the table!

Sorry. I'm just very tired of an unfair playing field. This all began thirty years ago. Not with Bush. And we've got a long long ways to go, to ever get it back to where it was.

edit- Now that I think of it, ignore me. I'm just frustrated. And the people at DU often pull rabbits out of the hat, when I would have ignored it. I probably don't get the full impact of this memo stuff. Go for it, if it exposes Rove. That would be so cool.

[struggle4progress]

63. Some people can admit making mistakes. Some can't.

Q: "What would your biggest mistake be?"

*: "Hmmm. I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it. . . . I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hadn't yet. . . . "

13 April 2004

[JDPriestly]

64. Where did these "forgeries" come from then?

The strange thing about the documents is that, if they are not authentic, they are apparently similar to documents that really existed. They weren't created out of thin air. We really need to know where they came from.

The documents Killian's secretary typed were probably never placed in Bush's records. They were more likely only placed in Killian's records. When he left the Guard, he would have either destroyed them himself or left them with his files. In checking for Bush's records, did anyone check the files of Bush's commanding officers? (And, by the way, has anyone checked the files of Bush's purpoted commanding officers in Alabama?)

Assuming CBS's source vouched for the documents' authenticity knowing they were not, why is Rather protecting the source? It seems to me that CBS would not be bound to any confidentiality agreement it made with a source if the source knowingly provided unreliable information.

[dweller]

69. What have i missed?

these were 'CYA' docs. Killian probably did type them himself, to cover his ass, presuming the originals would be scrubbed. (the originals typed by Knox, his secretary, who purports they are accurate in information, but she did not type them since she recognized the difference in her typed records and these new "forged" ones).

Who had the CYA files that Killian left behind?

dp

[struggle4progress]

80. I think you're probably right. But since the rest of the media ...

... has decided to beat up on CBS, I think CBS is a losing fight.

If you like the story push the Boston Globe version (* signed paper agreeing to enlist in the MA guard and then didn't) or the USN&WR story (White House has been counting W's points as if he were in the Air Force, which makes him look as if he earned the necessary discharge points, rather than using the NG system, under which it is clear he didn't earn enough points).

[struggle4progress]

79. Even more significantly, when provided prior access ...

... to the documents, the White House refused to claim the documents were inauthentic; this in conjunction with detailed wingnut blogger criticisms of typefaces beginning before the CBS broadcast ended strongly suggests a set-up.

But putting aside questions of journalistic truth, I think Rather & CBS News have allowed the right wing noise machine to win a propaganda victory.

We've got a bit over a month until the election: I'm not going to spend my time helping to further huff-n-puff the CBS story.

[The Zanti Regent]

68. Once again Rather plays the stooge for the Bush family

F HIM!

I read Greg Palast's latest, whatever respect I had for Dan Blather is gone. Blather played a lot of people for fools, just like he did in 1988 when he let Old Fart Bush make an asshole of him on national TV.

Dan Blather isn't one of us. Read Palast's latest and see what a toady Blather is!

[stacysangeltouch]

70. I will never understand!

I will never understand why the democrats don't all start jumping on the biased media and put formal complaints in on the one-sided, biased reporting. The truth of Bush's service record, and other lies and deceit will never come out if the Republican owned media has their way. Why do you think that the messenger is always attacked and discredited, so the attention is diverted off of the accusation, and of course the media never makes Bush answer any of the accusations, and they make headlines on the discredited reports.

[Bozvotros]

76. Did you watch CNNNBCMSBLSHTnews tonight?

The story about this story was played up to make it sound like there was NO TRUTH at all to the charges, that it was made up out of whole cloth and that this was a horrible thing to do to the president who it was inferred served honorably. That was the "news." The entire AWOL issue was neutralized in an almost choreographed piece of propaganda on at least three or four cable networks. Beyond belief.

This has now officially become too complex for the sheeple. Anything new will be overload for their fragile brains.

[stacysangeltouch]

82. yes

Yes I did, and that is what they are famous for, they have been playing Bush like he is the victim, all the while never comenting on the charges, never mentioned that the info that those documents held, was true even if the documents were faked, watch FSTV ( Free Speech TV), one of the few truthful news shows, and sometimes PBS has some good honest stuff, ya you don't see the media running with the story on how most of the soldiers are saying that this war is crap, and that they are stressed and wooried about their health and emotional well-being. No headlines here.

[stacysangeltouch]

83. Whoops

worried

[bogey18]

85. This has now officially become too complex for the sheeple.

That was the only sentence in this entire thread that made me smile.

[frankly_fedup2]

74. Ya know, it is to the point that even if they found Bush's DNA on

something controversial that exposes his graft, lies, and his total inadequacy for the seat he is sitting in, the media along with the Conservative Limbaughs and Hannities would spin it to the point that someone planted Bush's fingerprints on the documents.

Whatever it is, someone will fix it so Bush comes out smelling like a rose. This administration is scary to say the least. How they got into office is like a bad B movie.

I am amazed at the people that stand behind this man. Rush Limbaugh left me speechless today. I had to cut him off. The inconsistency, the lies, the people that call in and believe this crap. Same with Hannity. I cannot take it anymore.

[obiwan]

75. We gotta suck it up and move on...

... something Repukes can't do.

That's why we're liberals. We have the CAPACITY TO LEARN FROM OUR ERRORS.

I still say, give Shrub all the rope he needs. I guarantee he will hang himself.

[RareLubbockDem]

77. Am I the only one??

Am i the only one watching Scarborough Country???

[no im not crazy]

78. This is the end

Some time in the near future, while we're remembering all our liberal friends who had been arrested on very suspicious "drug charges" and "child pornography charges", while we remember crying over those who were arrested as "terrorist sympathizers", while we shudder to think of what happened to those who just "disappeared" one day, we'll look back on this as the day we knew was the end of the Kerry campaign, the end of democracy in this country. The day they finally won. But, it reality, this day really wouldn't have mattered. If the Fascist right couldn't crush the Kerry campaign with their control of the media, they would've done it with some creative vote stealing at election time. And if they couldn't do it that way, you know they would've simply refused to give up office to those "Democrat Al Qaeda Sympathizers", with full support of the US Military. Why do you think they pipe-in Limbaugh and Hannity to our troops? They want to make them a good, loyal, right-wing support force to them.

[mountainvue]

81. All roads lead to

Rove.:evilfrown:

[bogey18]

84. I actually feel sorry for Rather

I also feel bad for every honorable person who has stood up to these jackals. The last time I felt like this was when someone kicked me directly in the balls in the 8th grade. If I was a Christian, I would now be sure that * is the antiChrist.

OMFG.