Texas source regrets his involvement in CBS case

[quaoar]

http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news/09/21burkett.html

Bill Burkett, who provided CBS with memos, says that he got them from an anonymous source and that CBS misled him and mishandled the documents. Bill Burkett gave CBS the papers with the caveat that he wouldn't be identified, his lawyer said.

By Ken Herman
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Tuesday, September 21, 2004

WASHINGTON — It was at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo in February that retired National Guard Lt. Col. Bill Burkett says he got the documents that could affect a presidential election and Dan Rather's career.

Burkett took the National Guard records that purported to shed negative light on President Bush's military career from the rodeo to a West Texas cold storage locker where, Burkett's lawyer David Van Os says, they remained until CBS "sweet-talked" his client out of them.

But Van Os says Burkett — who for years has been a high-volume Bush critic — now regrets getting involved. CBS News and Rather said Monday that they can no longer vouch for the authenticity of the documents, citing Burkett's lie to them about who gave them to him.

Van Os acknowledges that Burkett, a West Texas rancher, lied to protect his source. But that transgression pales, Van Os said, in comparison to how CBS has mistreated Burkett and mishandled the documents.

[PartyPooper]

1. "Sweet-Talked"?

:wow:

[In Truth We Trust]

2. Burkett was either duped or a knowing shill. Has he given up who gave him

the documents???

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bagnana]

4. he got the documents at a livestock show?

This story is so screwed up. Bush is such a sniveling coward. He avoided the draft, deserted his crew, and now refuses to own up to it, instead hiding behind this f*cked up story. Politics really has become such a surreal joke.

[A_Possum]

5. OK, now we know Rove did it

It was the first thing I thought of when the memos came to light. Then through all the hoopla I became uncertain. But to read this, that Burkett got them from someone he didn't know...

Rove arranged it. He really did.

I cannot believe CBS fell for this. I'm so sad. We are in the hands of truly evil people.

[grasswire]

6. so did Burkett know the person?

edit....I just read the whole article.

I suppose it's no use fingerprinting the papers.

A sting. A setup. Rove. Goddam. Goddam!

[Fridays Child]

7. Agreed. For all we know, Burkett is a one-man sleeper cell...

...planted long ago with the assignment of setting himself up as an adversary of the Texas National Guard, in general, and B*sh, in particular.

I'm taking my tinfoil hat and going to bed, now.

G'night.

[Amigust]

14. I've thought about Burkett's being a plant, too

Either that, or it's Rove doing what Rove does best.

The fact the Freepers jumped on it so robustly within only four hours convinces me they had a heads up on it and that the GOP is behind it.

--------

Burkett lied to CBS and USA Today. Besides besmirching CBS for not authenticating the source better, it reflects on Greg Palast, too, who has used Burkett's claims in his reporting.

Damaged packaging: besmirch the messenger = besmirch the message.

A practiced method of getting the truth out into the public domain without folks paying much attention to it.

[necso]

8. Perhaps it's what called

called "shopping".

Had the Kerry campaign gotten behind the memos, it would have looked bad.

It someone was "shopping" these memos, it should have been a sign that something was wrong.

But this is the kind of investigative thinking that has gotten rusty.

Now, I must admit that it would be a clever ploy, using memos with content that appeared true but had errors in form or other non-prima-facie matters.

And one would be tempted to not check too closely on form or provenance when the content matched what other information was available. -- And even if the form was only reasonably plausible, it would have passed all but a reasonably thorough inspection.

And once the form was cast into doubt, the content would be also -- with the implication that the whole issue was just political dirty tricks and slander.

Now, of course, they are the ones that use tricks like this -- and this would be an attempt to project it on us. For once people think that two things are the same, they have a hard time choosing which one is best for them.

2000 furnishes adequate proof of this. Can anyone actually believe that we would be at this pass if Gore had been President?

[Kilroy003]

9. I just posted this.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-21-cover-guard_x.htm

"Lucy Ramirez"

Anyone have any idea who that is?

[necso]

10. The whole thing is

like some strange Chinese Opera. I have no idea what the story is anymore.

I know the patterns of deceptions, ploys and traps -- for this it is well to know. And the details interest me only to the degree that I can build them into a pattern, or that they are exceptions.

Moreover, I know the players only by "species".

And "rat" is what I smell. I know where this odor emanates from most strongly in this campaign. But where it emanates from here I don't know -- or care especially.

Let the lovers of Chinese Opera figure this out. For it is largely a matter of taste, to the extent that it does not cost us time and that it does not distort the real discussion to a bizarre fixation (in my opinion).

If the memos are in error, Dan Rather was not at fault. He didn't make them and he relied on others for their judgment -- or so I believe. He would do well to look carefully around him. But any man does.

That someone says yea or nay does not make things so. And only the people behind the ploy (if it is) will know where the memos came from and who did what.

I look into the minds of such men no more than I have to. It is not to my taste. And I see no need here.

We know where this is going. We know the rest of the "media" will pile on. We know that our opponents will try to use this to their own interests. And we know time is precious.

Explain to me, please, why I should consider it more. If you can, I am willing to consider considering it.

[Kilroy003]

11. Consider the ploy no further, my friend.

While I consider learning more of Chinese Opera!

[necso]

12. An important step would be ,

of course, to consider how well you understand Chinese.

And I do not.

But these things are matters of taste and when taste does not trespass on principle or code*, it is a matter of personal choice -- and one can learn a taste for many things.

And I will never learn to have a taste for Chinese Opera.

But perhaps you will enjoy it. I would not hold it against you if you did -- unless you tried to drag me there.

Then I would voice serious objections.

*: Used loosely as in "code" and "law". But of course, as I define these, while "code" could and does include "law" at some level, however, "law" could never include "code". -- And that level is precisely where the distinction is not necessary for the purposes of discussion... and where I don't remember to make it.

[Unperson 309]

25. Not Chinese Opera. ------------ KLINGON Opera!! eom

[mbperrin]

21. Here's what I found right away.

http://hinojosa.house.gov/news/speech.cfm?id=198

Congressman Hinojosa's remarks at San Juan Nuestra Clinica groundbreaking

April 7, 2004 – It is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to thank Mayor Laredo, Mr. Gonzalez, and of course, Lucy Ramirez and the board members present for allowing me to take part in this very special event.
<more>

Don't know if it's the same one or not. Ramirez is certainly not an uncommon name in Texas.

[David Zephyr]

30. Lucy Ramirez Will Be the "Yvette Lozano" in This Rovian Plant.

Remember Yvette Lozano?

She's the Bush/Rove loyalist who Rove told to mail video of Bush in a mock debate to the Gore campaign.

She was paid off with Saudi money funneled through Bush friends to take the fall for Bush and Rove when Gore correctly turned the video over to the FBI spoiling Rove's plan to "discover" that Gore had Bush stolen property.

Same shit, different day.

[JDPriestly]

13. We need to keep repeating

the simple fact that these kinds of strange events always occur when Karl Rove is involved in a campaign. This is his trademark. Have similar things ever occurred in previous Kerry campaigns? in Edwards campaigns? in campaigns Lockhart was involved in? No. Mysteriously, they always, always occur when Rove is involved. There is a dirty trick, which, at first glance, appears to have been pulled by Rove's candidate's opponent. In the end, no one is sure who pulled the trick. This is Rove's campaign footprint.

We are probably lucky that CBS and Dan Rather were the fall guys. Even if Burkett contacted Lockhart, the Kerry campaign did not get behind this. Don't panic if there is someone with the name Lucy Ramirez involved in or close to the Kerry campaign. That is also Rove's style.

[Justice]

24. Bingo!

"these kinds of strange events always occur when Karl Rove is involved in a campaign. This is his trademark. Have similar things ever occurred in previous Kerry campaigns? in Edwards campaigns? in campaigns Lockhart was involved in? No. Mysteriously, they always, always occur when Rove is involved."


That is the really story here.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. According ot the NY Post, Roger Stone

a long time Rove buddy, who goes back to Reagan and Lee Atwater, may be the source of the documents. This is the same guy who organized and paid the Miami Mob during the recount and then went on to join Al Sharpton's campaign.


Folks if this is true, we have a direct link to the WH. (Found this tidbit in GD 2004)


http://www.nypost.com/commentary/30555.htm (scroll down)

The hot rumor in New York political circles has Roger Stone, the longtime GOP activist, as the source for Dan Rather's dubious Texas Air National Guard "memos."

The irony would be delicious, since Rather became famous confronting President Nixon, in whose service a very young Stone became associated with political "dirty tricks."

Reached at his Florida home, Stone had no comment.


http://www.famoustexans.com/karlrove.htm

Career: In the years of the Watergage scandal, Rove's career as a big-time political handler began with a motley crew of friends and associates. He was chairman of the College Republicans when George Herbert Walker Bush was chairman of the state Republican Party in 1973. He won the presidency of the College Republicans in a race against Terry Dolan. The late Lee Atwater, who later became famous as the political attack dog for the Reagan-Bush team, managed Rove's campaign. Dolan went on to become a Soft Money pioneer by helping form the National Conservative Political Action Committee, then died of AIDS in 1986 at age 36. Dolan's advisers in his loss to Rove were Charlie Black, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone. Those three were later instrumental in the success of Ronald Reagan's 1984 campaign.

Atwater joined the consulting firm of Black, Manafort and Stone after the '84 election. The firm later worked for the 1988 Bush-Quayle campaign. Two of Nixon's dirty tricksters also worked for Bush-Quayle: Frederick Malek, Bush's Republican National Committee rep, who had compiled lists of Jews in the Bureau of Labor Statistics as part of Nixon's investigation of a "Jewish Cabal;" and Dwight Chapin, who was jailed for lying to a grand jury about hiring Donald Sigretti to disrupt the 1972 Democratic primary campaign of Senator Edward Muskie. Chapin worked under Manafort in 1988. The firm's other clients included drug-connected Bahamian Prime Minister Oscar Pindling, Philippine dictator Ferdinand Marcos, and UNITA, the South African-supported Angolan rebel group led by CIA asset Jonas Savimbi. Lee Atwater lobbied for UNITA. All of which began when Atwater was introduced to George Bush in 1973, by his good friend Karl Rove.

[annabanana]

20. THIS IS IT!

This is what has to be up at the top of a thread.
We should be willing to go out on a limb for Dan Rather. If this is proven, Rove is unmasked and the content's primacy is restored.

[anarchy1999]

16. I just wish everyone here could meet up with Van Os. He is an amazing

statesman. He is running for a position on the Supreme Court of Texas. I only wish every one could hear this man speak and meet his Mom and Dad. You would have no doubts as to any of this story.

[Career Prole]

17. I would suppose the feeling is mutual. n/t

[Samurai_Writer]

18. You know who else was at the HLS&R this year?

George W. Bush. The Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo is a HUGE event, and where lots of political powerplays go on behind the scenes. Kick back, watch the bullriders, and make major deals in your private skybox, complete with catering.

[w4rma]

19. Personally. I still think the documents are real. They have in no way been

proven false, even though big media would like us all to believe they have.

I think that the reason that the Repugs went nuts is that A) most of them are zealots who can never, no matter what, believe anything bad about their "hero" or their faith would be shaken. B) some of them, who are in the know, thought they had destroyed all of Bush's TANG documents that might say anything at all bad about him.

[birdbrain]

22. Things that make you go... hmmm....

IIRC, Dan Rather said that other documents released by the WH had the SAME font/style as the Killian docs. If so, it would seem like those must have been forged as well - and by the same forger in the White House.

[fob]

26. Everyone needs to go to as many Goodwill/Salvation Army type

places and scour the old electronics section for typewriters. Open the lid of every typwriter that has a typeball and lift eh lever at the top of it and pull it out. When you find one that has the superscript 'th', buy it and re-type the memo then post here the findings with the name of the font, typewriter model etc. It shouldn't run more than $10 to get the thing done.

I've already checked the one closest to my work and they had a selectric with a courier typeball on it. It didn't have the 'th' but it did have the Paragraph symbol and the double 'S' where one is above the other but they join, I have no idea what that one means.

Be the hero, find the source!!

[MeinaShaw]

31. You are one of the last remaining holdouts

I admire your tenacity.

[TexasBushwhacker]

33. They aren't the originals

They've been recreated and as Marian Knox said, "The information in them is correct".

How do we know that they aren't originals? Because the right wing immediately started picking them apart for the tiniest inconsistencies until CBS started double checking and then Burkett finally confessed that he'd been given the documents by someone he didn't know.

So again, how do we know they aren't originals?

BECAUSE THEY DESTROYED THE ORIGINALS and planted fakes.

They knew Bush's TANG record would be scrutinized, so they prepared a nice facsimile, and they even have the original damning information because they knew if they LIED about his service that would be uncovered. So they produced some fake documents so that they could create a big thick smoke screen and scream FAKE DOCUMENTS, BIASED PRESS, blah, blah, blah.

[kegler14]

23. Forgeries or not...

everybody seems to be ignoring the fact that the core of the story is true and hasn't been denied by Bush. He got special treatment and failed to fulfill all his duties.

That said, I sure hope Kerry (and the media) will stay on topics that really matter -- little things like an idiotic and deadly war in Iraq, a bad economy, health care, and a crushing national debt.

[progressivebydesign]

27. Rumor is that swinging guy, GOP operative, Roger Stone did it..

.. he's the one that funded Al Sharpton with GOP money, and gave him a key to his swankly townhouse in Manhattan.. Gee.. the trail leads back to the GOP, shocking!!!

Now.. CBS will trace the documents BACK to the giver, can we HOPE they'll announce the truth in time??? This is like a freakin' melodrama..

[brentspeak]

28. If Burkett is not a GOP mole, then he is

one of the dumbest individuals on the planet.

He claims he was contacted by a mysterious woman who identified herself as "Lucy Ramirez", and yet made no effort to obtain confirmation on her ID nor her contact info. Then, when Burkett is supposed to meet her at some livestock fair, he is instead met by some mysterious guy who hands him a shoebox and walks away. And Burkett makes no effort to get the guy's license plate, ask who he is, take someone along to discreetly video the proceedings, nothing.

That's IF his Lucy Ramirez story is true in the first place.

But who's dumber, Burkett or CBS? Burkett provided them with the name of a backup source, some other former National Guard member. And, of course, CBS didn't bother to verify the backup source.

[David Zephyr]

29. Burkett Got the Docs In HOUSTON? Bushland? Jeez.

Good grief! Houston.

The home of George Herbert Walker Bush's empire.

The home of James Baker's Saudi-bankrolled law firm.

The home of GOP trickster, Tom Delay.

The home of Ken Lay and thousands of petro-criminals.

Burkett got the documents in Houston?

[msmcghee]

32. There's no reason to suspect that Burkett knew . .

. . what was going on.

In fact, Rove would have been certain he didn't know. This was an easy tactic to pull off. All Rove had to do was create the suitably flawed documents and then get them into Burkett's hands in a way that they couldn't be traced.

How hard could that be? He then only had to wait for Burkett's hatred of Dubya (and in this case possibly Dan Rather's producer's) to work it's will.

If their lack of authenticity was discovered before they hit the press - so what, they couldn't be traced. To Rove this was like putting incriminating messages in a bottle and setting them adrift. Who knew if and where it would wash ashore.

I'll bet there were other messages sent out into the ether in that same way. Some have probably sunk already. But one or two could still be bobbing around out there waiting to wash ashore - and further immunize Dubya from the truth about his TANG service.

Why wouldn't Rove do this? It's easy and costs nothing. He did it before and there's no down-side for him.

There's a huge potential up-side if even one of those bottles makes it ashore and gets into the right hands - as anyone can see.

*****************************

Further thoughts. It would also make sense for Rove to send multiple attack messages against Kerry out there the same way. Like the Swift Boat vets.

As long as he can dissociate himself as the source - Bush* is safe.

In either case - Rove can depend on the "liberal media" to immediately amplify any possible attack against Kerry and quickly defend Bush* against any negative consequences.