Arnold For Prez? Maybe

[not systems]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2004/09/15/state1553EDT0115.DTL

Rohrabacher seeks to let foreign-born citizens run for president

A California Republican congressman introduced a constitutional amendment Wednesday that would allow Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to run for president. But he insisted the candidate he really wants to see is a 76-year-old House Democrat from Hungary.
...

[Worst Username Ever]

1. I believe Ted Kennedy actaull backs this one....

Not sure what I think of it.

[Gyre]

48. Well, that's a wonderful endorsement!

Not. T. Kennedy doesn't represent anybody outside of Mass..

Gyre

[Capn Sunshine]

95. Speak for yourself

Teddy is the ONLY voice I've heard in the senate in months who represents my viewpoint on the band of theives currently in control.

[jumpstart33]

99. I could never back this amendment nor vote for Arnie for Pres.

He is really scum.

[SemperEadem]

107. does the inclusion accept those born of middle eastern decent?

If it's open, then it's open to everyone, not to those who are of European decent.

[cheezus]

2. I can think of a foreign born former sec. of state I'd vote for

hint: she sounds like scully from the x-files

[Snow]

40. *wiping shocked sweat from brow frantically* Oh, Cheezus, I thought you

meant a different foreign-born former secretary of state.

[BiggJawn]

100. This one?

Yeah, that'd be scary...

[Katha]

73. Yes!

I'd vote for Madame Secretary in a heartbeat. :D

[Bucky]

90. well phrased message header, Cheezus

Give us all a heart attack why don'tcha?

[cheezus]

3. My compromise on this: make requirement 35 years of US citizenship

then the same standard applies to foreign born as us born citizens

[KittyWampus]

41. My Compromise Is 50 Years

[Crunchy Frog]

86. My compromise is

born a US citizen, even if on foriegn soil, ie, children born to military personel serving overseas. Or, either became a US citizen, or a permanent resident of the US within the first 10 years of life. That would allow someone like Madeline Albright to run. It would ensure that any potential foreign born president would at least be culturally an American.

[denverbill]

4. Pretty fucking funny. Republicans hate the UN.

But they want to vote a foreigner in as President.

[0007]

46. Next 'ya know we'll be using sub-titles. I can't only understand half of

what Kissinger sez and about 25% of what Arnold sez. (Just kidding)

[Goldmund]

5. I absolutely support this.

And I think the rule that only native-born citizens can run for president is retarded.

[demoman123]

9. Then you support 8 years of a Viennese body builder running the US.

That sounds kinda...retarded.

[Goldmund]

12. Excuse me?

I'm sorry, but there's just too many logical faults in your post to merit an answer.

[demoman123]

13. You are excused.

And you DID answer--with a non-answer.

[Goldmund]

14. Dude, do you really not see the fault(s) with your statement????

Come on man, think about it. You can do it.

[demoman123]

26. Dewd!

If you support extending the US presidency to the foreign-born, the first consequence will be that Schwarzenegger, a highly popular movie star and California governor (whom does that remind you of? )will be elected president. If you support A, and A implies B, and you know that A implies B (which you must surely know) then you support B.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Yuna]

30. BS

Arnold would NEVER win office. Arnold holds the office he does now due to VERY special situations that were favorable to him. Those situations won't exist for him next time. In fact, the amendment would be a good idea just to gurantee us an easy win if the repubs were ever fool enough to try it.

[Lindacooks]

49. I'm not willing to take that chance.

Arnold had about a million strikes against him in California too, including multiple charges of sexual assault and abuse, but none of that made any difference to the sheeple.

I do NOT want anyone foreign-born running for President.

[Booster]

51. But the voting machines will most likely exist and

that's why I appose this amendment at this time. Maybe later - much later. All I have to think about is Kissinger and this subject turns me right off.

[The Zanti Regent]

83. If this passes, I say WILLIAM SHATNER for President!

Ha Ha, Girly Man Arnold, the Stroid junky prancing around in pink panties to Disco Music?

HELL NO, Give me CAPTAIN KIRK FOR PRESIDENT!

[Goldmund]

35. No, I don't know that A implies B.

Schwarzenegger could never be elected for more reasons than I can count. But both you and I are speculating about this, and I think it's irrelevant. The Consitution isn't a document crafted to respond or influence the particulars of the current political situation, but to serve as the basis of this Republic. I find it absurd to support a blanket consitutional doctrine because there is ONE GUY somewhere that may politically benefit and whom you don't want to see elected. That is bizarre. Actually, come to think of it, if this is your standard, it would be more beneficial to allow ONLY foreign-born US citizens to hold the office of Presidency. Yeah, we'll have Ahnuld in the running, but also Teresa, Soros, and many others; the sweetest part of the deal is that Jeb, Dubya, Cheney, Rudy, all of them fuckers will be out. How about that?

Or maybe, to acommodate you (and hey, I wouldn't complain), we should say "foreign-born nationals, EXCEPTING those who have played robotic villains in Hollywood movies, can hold the office of POTUS".

Or, what would happen if Clarence Thomas or Alan Keyes became major political stars in 4 years? Would you support banning blacks from holding the office of Presidency?

Get my point? The consitution isn't and shouldn't be about current politics.

[demoman123]

63. Thanks for admitting your lack of knowledge. It is a gracious gesture.

Nevertheless keeping Schwarzenegger out of the White House is important enough to me to obviate whatever dubious reasons there might be for allowing the foreign born to serve as President--reasons which you have never articulated.

[Goldmund]

70. I didn't articulate them because I thought it would be condescending to...

...articulate such trivialities.

[denverbill]

23. I can't believe you actually support this.

Why do you think the Founding Fathers didn't want this? Most of them were immigrants themselves, or at most the sons of immigrants.

Do you think they were stupid? Do you think they hated foreigners?

No, they wanted to make sure that nobody who didn't have America's best interest first and foremost in their minds ever ascended to the height of power in the US. They didn't want a paid agent of some monarchist foreign power to betray the US. And the best way to ensure that was to not allow someone who is born in a foreign country and could potentially be an agent for that country to become President.

Jesus H Christ, immigrants can be governors, Congressmen, and Senators. Is it too damned much to ask that there is ONE job in the US that a first generation immigrant can't have?

[Yuna]

28. Who cares what they wanted?

According to the constitution they also decided non-whites were 3/5ths people. By your logic, we should go back to that belief because they held it.

Now - you claim the motivation wasn't that they hated foreigners.

These the same people that decided blacks were 3/5ths people. Now, don't you think that might indicate they were at least a LITTLE racist? Gee, I wonder if that racism could have impacted other sections of the constitution...

[denverbill]

32. Interestingly, they didn't prevent blacks from holding office, did they?

How odd that, according to your implication, this group of racist bastards didn't specifically prohibit blacks from holding office.

And even so, they specifically prohibited foreigners from doing the same.

FWIW, most of the FF were anti-slavery, but the only way the racist slaveholders in the South could be persuaded into joining the US was if slavery was specifically omitted from the constitution, and all laws pertaining to slavery couldn't be voted on for like 20 years. That same group of asses demanded that their slaves count as inhabitants when apportioning electors. The 3/5's was a bitterly accepted compromise.

[Yuna]

37. Tell me

What exactly were the odds of an african american winning office at the time the constitution was written? Next to zero perhaps?

Your statement is kind of like saying "Why didn't we amend the constitution to prohibit Hitler from being elected to an office in WW2?" You don't need to legislate something that has next to zero chance of happening.

"FWIW, most of the FF were anti-slavery, but the only way the racist slaveholders in the South could be persuaded into joining the US was if slavery was specifically omitted from the constitution, and all laws pertaining to slavery couldn't be voted on for like 20 years. That same group of asses demanded that their slaves count as inhabitants when apportioning electors. The 3/5's was a bitterly accepted compromise. "

Although there is truth to this, I would suggest you more closely take a look at which FFs owned slaves (or were alright with others doing so) as well as how many of them would likely have accepted the idea of african americans being considered equal. You'll find it won't be a minority of them...

[denverbill]

96. Where's your proof?

"Although there is truth to this, I would suggest you more closely take a look at which FFs owned slaves (or were alright with others doing so) as well as how many of them would likely have accepted the idea of african americans being considered equal. You'll find it won't be a minority of them..."

I've looked at this stuff a fair bit, and can find virtually nobody willing to praise the virtues of slavery in all the debates about the constitution. OTOH, it's pretty easy to find bits like this:

'Mr. GOVr. MORRIS moved to insert "free" before the word inhabitants. Much he said would depend on this point. He never would concur in upholding domestic slavery. It was a nefarious institution. It was the curse of heaven on the States where it prevailed. Compare the free regions of the Middle States, where a rich & noble cultivation marks the prosperity & happiness of the people, with the misery & poverty which overspread the barren wastes of Va. Maryd. & the other States having slaves. Travel thro' ye. whole Continent & you behold the prospect continually varying with the appearance & disappearance of slavery. The moment you leave ye. E. Sts. & enter N. York, the effects of the institution become visible, passing thro' the Jerseys & entering Pa. every criterion of superior improvement witnesses the change. Proceed south wdly & every step you take thro' ye. great region of slaves presents a desert increasing, with ye. increasing proportion of these wretched beings. Upon what principle is it that the slaves shall be computed in the representation? Are they men? Then make them Citizens and let them vote. Are they property? Why then is no other property included? The Houses in this city are worth more than all the wretched slaves which cover the rice swamps of South Carolina. The admission of slaves into the Representation when fairly explained comes to this: that the inhabitant of Georgia and S. C. who goes to the Coast of Africa, and in defiance of the most sacred laws of humanity tears away his fellow creatures from their dearest connections & damns them to the most cruel bondages, 20 shall have more votes in a Govt. instituted for protection of the rights of mankind, than the Citizen of Pa. or N. Jersey who views with a laudable horror, so nefarious a practice. He would add that Domestic slavery is the most prominent feature in the aristocratic countenance of the proposed Constitution. The vassalage of the poor has ever been the favorite offspring of Aristocracy. And What is the proposed compensation to the Northern States for a sacrifice of every principle of right, of every impulse of humanity. They are to bind themselves to march their militia for the defence of the S. States; for their defence agst. those very slaves of whom they complain. They must supply vessels & seamen in case of foreign Attack. The Legislature will have indefinite power to tax them by excises, and duties on imports: both of which will fall heavier on them than on the Southern inhabitants; for the bohea tea used by a Northern freeman, will pay more tax than the whole consumption of the miserable slave, which consists of nothing more than his physical subsistence and the rag that covers his nakedness. On the other side the Southern States are not to be restrained from importing fresh supplies of wretched Africans, at once to increase the danger of attack, and the difficulty of defence; nay they are to be encouraged to it by an assurance of having their votes in the Natl. Govt. increased in proportion, and are at the same time to have their exports & their slaves exempt from all contributions for the public service. Let it not be said that direct taxation is to be proportioned to representation. It is idle to suppose that the Genl. Govt. can stretch its hand directly into the pockets of the people scattered over so vast a Country. They can only do it through the medium of exports imports & excises. For what then are all these sacrifices to be made? He would sooner submit himself to a tax for paying for all the negroes in the U. States, than saddle posterity with such a Constitution."

or this

"Col. MASON. This infernal trafic originated in the avarice of British Merchants. The British Govt. constantly checked the attempts of Virginia to put a stop to it. The present question concerns not the importing States alone but the whole Union. The evil of having slaves was experienced during the late war. Had slaves been treated as they might have been by the Enemy, they would have proved dangerous instruments in their hands. But their folly dealt by the slaves, as it did by the Tories. He mentioned the dangerous insurrections of the slaves in Greece and Sicily; and the instructions given by Cromwell to the Commissioners sent to Virginia, to arm the servants & slaves, in case other means of obtaining its submission should fail. Maryland & Virginia he said had already prohibited the importation of slaves expressly. N. Carolina had done the same in substance. All this would be in vain if S. Carolina & Georgia be at liberty to import. The Western people are already calling out for slaves for their new lands, and will fill that Country with slaves if they can be got thro' S. Carolina & Georgia. Slavery discourages arts & manufactures. The poor despise labor when performed by slaves. They prevent the immigration of Whites, who really enrich & strengthen a Country. They produce the most pernicious effect on manners. Every master of slaves is born a petty tyrant. They bring the judgment of heaven on a Country. As nations can not be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes & effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities. He lamented that some of our Eastern brethren had from a lust of gain embarked in this nefarious traffic. As to the States being in possession of the Right to import, this was the case with many other rights, now to be properly given up. He held it essential in every point of view that the Genl. Govt. should have power to prevent the increase of slavery."

or this

Art VII sect 4. 1, 2 resumed. Mr. SHERMAN was for leaving the clause as it stands. He disapproved of the slave trade; yet as the States were now possessed of the right to import slaves, as the public good did not require it to be taken from them, & as it was expedient to have as few objections as possible to the proposed scheme of Government, he thought it best to leave the matter as we find it.

or this

Mr. ELSWORTH. As he had never owned a slave could not judge of the effects of slavery on character: He said however that if it was to be considered in a moral light we ought to go farther and free those already in the Country.

or this

Mr. PINKNEY. If slavery be wrong, it is justified by the example of all the world. He cited the case of Greece Rome & other antient States; the sanction given by France England, Holland & other modern States. In all ages one half of mankind have been slaves. If the S. States were let alone they will probably of themselves stop importations. He wd. himself as a Citizen of S. Carolina vote for it.

or this

Mr. DICKENSON considered it as inadmissible on every principle of honor & safety that the importation of slaves should be authorised to the States by the Constitution.

or this
Mr. SHERMAN said it was better to let the S. States import slaves than to part with them, if they made that a sine qua non. He was opposed to a tax on slaves imported as making the matter worse, because it implied they were property. He acknowledged that if the power of prohibiting the importation should be given to the Genl. Government that it would be exercised. He thought it would be its duty to exercise the power.

---------------------------------------------
It seems to me that virtually everyone concerned with this issue deplored slavery and was found it morally repugnant. But since S Carolina and Georgia would have refused to sign on to the Constitution if it was banned, a fair number grudgingly tolerated it.


And back to the original issue. I find it interesting that, while slavery was debated repeatedly, I could find NO discussion on the merits of having a natural born President. It appears the Founders were virtually unanimously in favor of that basic precaution.

[Goldmund]

38. Ridiculous.

First of all, we're not talking about "foreigners". We're talking about foreign-born citizens who have held their citizenship for a long time (what this "long time" should be we can debate).


"Do you think they were stupid?"

Nope. Do you think they were descended from heaven? You and I have as much right to question their conclusions as anybody. They obviously were far from perfect, and I'm sure that they did not intend their writings to be gospel foreverandeveramen. The other poster had a good point about slavery, etc.


"No, they wanted to make sure that nobody who didn't have America's best interest first and foremost in their minds ever ascended to the height of power in the US."

They obviously did a great job. Have you seen the news lately?

"And the best way to ensure that was to not allow someone who is born in a foreign country and could potentially be an agent for that country to become President."

This is absurd. I'm too tired to even respond to this. It may have made some sense in the 1790s. But, Hello??? First of all, there are plenty of US-born people who are agents of other interests; second, more yet of foreign-born US citizens have nothing but America's best interests at heart. Furthermore, that's what we have elections for and that's why we're supposed to have free press and transparent political candidacies. Let's work on those, eh? Would it not be better for this Democracy to allow foreign-born nationals to hold any office, but demand the TRUTH from the media and shun secrecy in official business -- so that no agents of other interests can ever acquire the highest office in the US?

Kinda like happened in 2000?

[HereSince1628]

110. Well, do you support dual citizenships being allowed to run?

How far are you willing to go?

Though I admit to seeing some of your position.

IF THIS REALLY IS PLANET USA, then everyone from anywhere should have a chance to have a say in the decision making.

[Goldmund]

111. No, not dual citizenships

It isn't about "how far I'm willing to go". I understand that only an American should occupy the office and only an American without external loyalties. With a dual citizenship there would be a clear potential for a conflict of interest. But a US citizen who has held citizenship for a long time is as much American as anybody born here, and certainly more than some (there are lots of claustrophobic communities in the US, from Chinatown to the Amish) -- it's not a matter of degree, but of a fundamental point. I could turn this around on you, and ask "how far are you willing to go? Should a person with immigrant parents not be allowed to run for the presidency? 2 generations? Should a person have to be directly descended from the Pilgrims?"? You get my point.

[HereSince1628]

112. Well, being descended from a puritan, say, Yes only WE CAN LEAD

verily verily I say unto you until you are of the 11th generation of American on _ALL_ sides of you family you are not fit to lead a nation of interloping, genocidal, colonizing, arrogant Europeans.

Well, I write that with all due sarcasm...

[Goldmund]

113. LOL

Thanks for the laugh. :)

[slaveplanet]

122. Ridiculous

By the last census there are over 250,000.000 citizens of the USA....I'll go out on a limb here and estimate that a bare minimum of 100,000,000 were born right here on US soil. If we cant find one(1) qualified person every four(4) years out of that many, then we are truly incompetent. This should be a non issue. There is absolutely no valid reason for any such thing.

[Goldmund]

123. There are about 200 million white people in the US

why do we need to allow them coloreds the right to be President? If we can't find a qualified person among those 200 million, then we are trully incompetent.

[LuminousX]

116. I disagree. There is very little that defines what an American is

birth is about it.

[Goldmund]

121. What definition of "American" are you talking about?

Because the only legal definition is "a person who holds US citizenship". If that person isn't "American" enough for voters, then they won't vote for him/her.

[colonel odis]

6. what exactly would arnold's qualifications for the office be?

oh, wait. that's how the republicans like 'em. dumb and in over their heads.

[mitchtv]

7. Tom Lantos would be a wonderful president

so would Jennifer Granholm.

[Book Lover]

15. I'm a Lantos constituent

and I think I'd agree with that, though he ran a very poor reelection campaign last year IMO.

[CBHagman]

17. And at least Lantos knows something about real danger.

He was a courier for Raoul Wallenberg back in WWII Hungary.


In contrast, we have Schwarzenegger claiming that Austria was behind the Iron Curtain. Uh, how stupid does he think people are?

[Book Lover]

18. Yes, and I've never seen

Lantos trot out that part of his history to win points. Hell, as I understand, the man was interred during the war, though I do not know where.

[CBHagman]

42. Watch the documentary "The Last Days"

That particular documentary profiles Lantos and several other Hungarian Jews who managed to survive the swift, brutal descent of the Nazis. The story is chilling but ultimately inspiring, and if you want to know more about Lantos's past, that's a good place to start.

[Book Lover]

45. Thank you so much

I absolutely will.

[Gyre]

47. "A wonderful president"

If you're a likudnik. Not so wonderful if you consider yourself a member of the world community.

Gyre

[maveric]

8. Neocons are grooming their nazi beef puppet to be fuhrer.

Read the writing on the walls people. These people are nazis and they DO plan on taking over the world.

[R Hickey]

82. The Bush family is using Arnold the way they used Reagan

When I first saw Arnold campaigning with Poppy Bush in 1992, it occured to me that "Da Terminator" would someday become the Bushovic's next lovable "Ronald Reagan."

Arnold was selected long ago to take over Reagan's function. This latest effort is part of a step-by-step, twelve-year (so far) plan.

The Bush family hopes to put Arnold on a future presidental ticket because the other person on that ticket will be another Bush family member, probably Jeb.

Arnold will become the gang's new "face," and Tedd Kennedy is a fool to fall into this trap, this is a Bush power grab.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

120. You are absolutely right

And the American people will elect him in a landslide. I have no doubt about that.

[2Design]

10. NO thank you - PNAC can not be trusted

[The Animator]

11. Scary that the movie "Demolition Man" actually predicted this.

We know we live in troubled times when a cheesy old Stallone movie can be seen as a prophecy.

Somebody put me back in the fridge and wake me up when the insanity is over.

[ropi]

57. THANK YOU

I was thinking the same thing... I remember that quote and it is archived at http://www.imdb.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LeninaHuxley : I have, in fact, perused some newsreels in the Schwartzenegger Library.
JohnSpartan : Hold it. The Schwartzenegger Library?
LeninaHuxley : Yes. The Schwartzenegger Presidential Library. Wasn't he an actor when you...
JohnSpartan : But how? He was President?
LeninaHuxley : Yes! Even though he wasn't born in this country, his popularity at the time caused the 61st Amendment which states...
JohnSpartan : I don' wanna know. President.

[impe]

92. His Own Movies....

Running Man and Total Recall.

He is the GOP prize with the Kennedy connection and anyone who doesn't think he stands a chance
at the presidency with this amendment, needs to watch some movies.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

104. Just maybe the "Kennedy Curse" will visit him. It's only fair because....

Arnie likes being a Kennedy, so he must take everything that comes with it.

:puke:

:grr:

[CBHagman]

16. There are a lot of talented immigrants.

Good people, too. How about GEORGE SOROS? That'll make Denny Hastert's head explode.

But the sooner we get rid of Schwarzenegger in politics, the better. There is an ugly price to pay for his policies and that crappy little fake man act. In that regard, he's like George W. Bush -- demeaning people, screwing them over, and controlling his image, thanks to the general idiocy of the media in this country.

[truthisfreedom]

19. all i have to say about this is: they had better examine the original

reasons why the founding fathers framed the constitution the way they did, and have a full and open discussion about it, before they go futzing with the constitution.

[Bog Frog]

20. Dana Rohrabacher can kiss my ass.

And so can anyone else who wants to change the Constitution for this reason. Or to ban flag-burning. Or to ban my marriage.

[webtrainer]

34. Agreed. Here in the O.C. we know him all too well . . .

as the surfin' congressman who absolutely LOVED the Taliban pre-9/11

he had all sorts of back-channel deals with these criminals

link:

http://www.ocweekly.com/ink/03/01/cover-moxley.php

how bad are the politics in this district, he had to beat off Bob Dornan in the last election! ecch . . .

[Carla in Ca]

39. I'm in O.C., too

and Dana R. is a wingnut...big time.
I heard rumors that this might happen after Arnold was elected. I just can't believe it happened so soon.

Do you know how he solved our budget crisis? He borrowed 15 billion dollars. Now we are worse off as the interest accumulates.

Too many people are trying to tamper with our constitution and I for one do not like it. In my opinion, I truly believe there is a difference between people born here and ones who are not. I know the argument about how a lot of new citizens know more about our history and share our American pride.

What happens when difficult decisions must be made in the region that president originally came from? It could happen easily and it could have tragic consequences. You can't just think of the few being discussed now...that amendment is forever.

[Trajan]

84. Seemed he learned from Reagan ....

Mortgage you children's future by borrowing today ....

The GOP are ruinous ...

[Snellius]

21. How about George Soros?

What are people thinking of? Arnold Schwarzenegger for president? Give me a break.

[robbedvoter]

22. Cuz cloning Hitler failed....

[KamaAina]

24. Rohrabacher wants hospitals to fingerprint undocumented patients

Really.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/02/1678330.php

What a fascist moran.

Now all of a sudden he's rah-rah pro-immigrant?

And it's because he wants Tom Lantos to run for President? Naah, couldn't be any other candidate, like, let's say, an Enron-loving, Nazi-descended serial groper, now could it? </sarcasm>

[kskiska]

25. Fine, but with the provision

that the new amendment doesn't take place for another 30 years, so as to not favor any current politician. Fair's fair.

[Placebo]

27. We Have MORE THAN ENOUGH Able and Willing AMERICANS...

who were born here to run for office. our future is too important to risk it falling into the hands of an arnold.

[joefree1]

29. No way!

After Arnold they'll want Rupert Murdoch for President. Tell the Rethuglicans to quit messing with the Constitution.

[Carolab]

31. And who would oppose him?

Jesse Ventura?

[LiberalFighter]

33. If that amendment had been in existence back in the 70's...

They would had run Kissinger.

Thank goodness he wasn't eligible!!

[Sputnik]

36. Arnold could win, but

The current GOP would never give him the nomination because he's too liberal on social issues.

Of course, he could have a "change of heart" about abortion. And gays.

The most sickening to me would be watching the Kennedy clan campaigning for him. And I think they would, even in a presidential race.

I liked Bill Maher's idea. Just eliminate the ammendments that prevent Arnold and Bill Clinton from running. Call it a wash.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

103. Ted would oppose him, but Caroline would support Hitler because..

Maria "Stick Figure" is her "freind".

:argh:

[Elginoid]

43. since laws of ex post facto are unconstitutional...

it shouldn't apply to anyone naturalized before it becomes law.

[devilgrrl]

44. Fuck that shit!

The prospect of a foreign born president is one instance were I turn into a total Freeper! Fuck that!!!! :grr:

[Goldmund]

50. At least you're honest

Because you're right -- there is absolutely no liberal argument against allowing foreign-born US presidents. It is pure nationalist, jingoist freepery.

[Booster]

52. When the repugs are pushing for it so hard, there is

absolutely a liberal argument against it. They're not doing it for the good of the country.

[Goldmund]

60. Oh, I agree they're not

but I also think that republican agenda shouldn't dictate my beliefs.

[demoman123]

65. So why do you agree? Why are you humping this?

What foreign country were you born in?

[Goldmund]

71. You've caught me

I did get laid off a year ago, I'm looking for a career. At least a 4-year job, you know, the economy being down and all..

[devilgrrl]

53. Yes, I pine for the days when we can vote for the likes of...

Rupert Murdoch
Richard Branson
Silvio Berlusconi
Conrad Black

hey, how about the Bildebergers? Why not one of them?

F-U! :nuke:

[Goldmund]

59. Instead, you have the days when you can vote the likes of...

George W.
George H.
Richard Nixon

and even...

Ann Coulter
Sean Hannity
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Savage
Trent Lott

hell, even for...

Charles Manson
Tim McVeigh

Should blacks be presidents?
Yeah?


Yes, I pine for the days when we can vote for the likes of...

Clarence Thomas
Alan Keys
Luis Farrakhan


Women?

Even Dr.Laura? Lynne Cheney? Stepford Pickles?


A totally, totally absurd argument you got.

[devilgrrl]

72. "A totally, totally absurd argument you got"

Yeah, yours hasn't gotten me convinced either.

[foo_bar]

56. there's a liberal argument for the status quo

it's like the Hippocratic oath: do no harm. While inaction to slavery was harmful in itself, tinkering with Article II for short term politik means flag-burning amendments, anti-gay amendments, and eventually a Constitution like this: http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html

[Goldmund]

61. Sure, there's an argument against tinkering with the constitution.

But that's a different debate. Here, we're specifically discussing whether foreign-born citizens should be allowed to be presidents.

[demoman123]

66. Then you have admitted your error.

A liberal argument against tinkering with the Constitution is a liberal argument against changing it to allow foreign born Presidents.

That's another simple logical implication that you seem somehow to have missed.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldmund]

85. I don't know why my previous post got erased.

it said "we'll talk when you actually read my posts.", or something to that effect.

[aquart]

54. NEVER.

This is the Rupert Murdoch for King of the World amendment. No way. No how. No time.

Never.

[TankLV]

55. No way, No how, NEVER! This is the worst idea to come out of repuke

asses in a long time - and that says a lot!

NEVER!

That is the ONE law I would never ever change.

[fortyfeetunder]

58. Ah-nold CAN win, and here is why

Notice y'all, the Pugs strategy when they have a weak candidate, is down play their candidate's weakness and make their opponent seem as incompetent and Bush I.

As long as Murka feeds into this line of effin bullshit, then given a constitutional amendment to allow foreign born to win -- Arnold Schwarznegger has chance of actually winning. The Pug strategy will prevail even if his Democratic opponent is intellectually equivalent to a Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein.

It's not about the candidate, it's about the Pug system.

[iamjoy]

62. Go Jennifer Granholm!

Don't know too much about her, but seeing her do a few interviews and talk at the convention, she seems really smart!

And she's cute too (which actually may be a liability)

[AmericanErrorist]

64. How the amendment could pass

The Constitution says that you need either 3/4 of State Legislatures, or you could organize conventions in all the states and if 3/4 of those conventions agree, you have ratification.

Expect ArnoldCon to come to a state near you.

[Guaranteed]

67. LiiiiiAR!

Forget it, buddy.

[Matilda]

68. Just slightly off-topic, because whether to allow foreign-born

presidents is an issue just for you to decide. But I'm looking at
the quality of the most likely candidate, good old Governor Groper,
and it's tragic.

I'm currently reading "John Fizgerald Kennedy: An Unfinished Life",
and I'm up to the start of his presidency in 1961. The man had
vision! He had a plan! He knew which end was up! You could
believe in this man - and now we have shrubs and body-builders, and
they shouldn't even breathe the same air!

Wherever they come from, the presidential candidates should have
a few ideas and the intelligence to implement them - surely that's
the most important thing? The standards have fallen so low in the
last four years, it really is a tragedy.

[Swamp Rat]

74. Ha! We already have a foreign president.

Bush is an alien lizard! Don't vote for him.

[Skinner]

75. They've got Arnold; we've got Jennifer Granholm!

I'll take that matchup. :thumbsup:

Granholm is the governor of Michigan, born in Canada. She's awesome.

If she had been born in the US, she'd be on the short list of possible future presidential contenders.

[MissB]

98. My exact thought, Skinner

Hell, I'd even love to see a matchup between Granholm and Arnie.

[Flammable Materials]

76. The politics of "Shut The Fuck Up, We're Gonna Do What We Want"

Shouldn't we start calling them what they are ... "activist legislators"?

[Julien Sorel]

77. Make it effective 25 years out and I'll agree to it.

Changing the constitution to accomodate the ambitions and circumstances of one man is hardly what the rule of law is about.

[napi21]

78. I doubt this will ever happen!

It's really a difficult task to change the constitution, thank God! I think this has less chance to be adopted than the Gay Rights ammendment.

[tom_paine]

79. They are simply just a bunch of pathetic liars

Oh, OF COURSE Bushevik Rohrbacher wants a Democrat to be President.

My God, they lie like Soviets, often as ham-fistedly.

Of course, Soviet Pravda didn't have nearly the great production values and neat graphics as Imperial Amerikan Pravda.

Who says there's no such thing as progress.

Fuck Rohrbacher, that disingenuous Bushevik LIAR.

[w4rma]

80. I oppose this for same reason that the founding fathers set it up this way

At that time they were worried that someone from outside America could come here, backed by a King's power, and win office, then turn our country into a colony for the King backing that guy.

No. If you weren't born here in America. You can still run for U.S. Senate or Governor. We have more than enough qualified folks already in the country who would be more than happy to be elected and govern as President of this great nation without having to expand our pool, and add another danger to our nation in the process, to folks from other countries, who probably will have more loyalty to their original country than ours.

[henslee]

81. Ha! Arnold will be destroyed next time he runs anywhere. He makes

more people's skink crawl than "little bush".

[ReadTomPaine]

87. Dream on - the jerk is quite popular.

The legislature and media talking heads all lined up like star struck fans waiting for his autograph when he won the recall. They still fawn over him, even a lot of Democrats.

I heard all this talk about how he was going to be 'stopped dead in his tracks' and so forth, but it was just hot air to appease the party from the leadership. I'm bitterly disappointed that he was given the free ride instead of being hamstrung on any initiative he's tried. California rolled big time for him, and if CA did, the rest of the country will be easy prey.

RTP

[henslee]

89. It has the indications of a honeymoon. Backdoor deal with

CA press to off during his "freaky circumstances' Gov. campaign will not happen next time. His appearance at the RNC revival meeting in NYC was a big neg. The state of CA economy plus his failure to woo Latinos is a strike against him. Plus there is a slew of documented dirt -- as well as plenty of his own foot in your mouth soundbites that can be used as fodder. His hedonism plus abortion stance will not play with christians. All that is needed is a little lead time (this didn't happen in the Gov. race) and a coordinated attack by Moveon and Arnie is terminated.

[ReadTomPaine]

93. I think he's more dangerous than you give him credit, but...

... most of your assumptions and observations are pretty solid, I'd agree. His public appearances aren't nearly as good as his backers had assumed (who would have thought an actor could be such a piss poor public speaker?) and his RNC speech was criticized as much as it was praised.

However let's not forget that he's a much better sell than Bush. When the tables are fixed, all bets are off, so to speak.

RTP

[trueblew]

88. ONLY IF THEY LET CLINTON RUN AGAIN eom

[Goldmund]

91. This thread has really made me disappointed with DU.

Do we have _ideology_ or just politics?

If Republicans had wanted to run, say, Clarence Thomas, in 1964 -- would we be here opposing the Civil Rights legislation?

[Capn Sunshine]

94. The second right wingers find out what this would really mean

That somewhere in Guatemala,or Lesotho , or Mongolia the future president is being born this month, they will drop this like its a bag of flaming dog poo.

[Goldmund]

97. They don't think that far in advance

besides, they don't have an "ideology" -- their "ideology" (guns, god, country crap) is just a window dressing so that the tools and the fools will vote against their own political interests, and for them -- and is very variable and changes all the time, depending on their current political needs. For now, it means Ahnuld to them, and they'll make up an ideology to go along with it -- like they do with everything else. The reason this thread has made me disappointed with DU is because that is one of the fundamental differences between the Left and the Right; the Right adjusts their ideology for their current political needs, and the Left defines their politics as stemming from their ideology, not the other way around.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

102. Democrats should do the same thing.

Make up some "ideology" and get the Reigns Of Power.

Once we are in we'll do what we want and get our causes the needed support.

I oppose this Amendment because I do NOT want Arnold as President!

:scared:

[Goldmund]

105. They'll happily supply Jeb.

And he can actually win, unlike Ahnuld (although that's obviously debatable). All the while, you've prostituted your ideological credibility. If we simply make up "ideology" to get the reigns of power, then why not just join the Republicans? Then you'll have instant reigns of power. Your screen handle implies ideology, doesn't it? If you think ideology is for sale, then change it to OPPORTUNISTIC1. :)

[Emillereid]

101. Even the idea of the Gropenator as President sends cold chills

down my spine. If we really want to amend the constitution to make the Presidency more democratic we should get rid of the electoral college nonsense and the restriction to two terms.

[Goldmund]

106. ugh... Infinite incumbency???

No thanks.

I agree with abolishing the EC though.

[Emillereid]

108. If the incumbent is the person the people vote for more than twice --yes!

I had no problem with FDR being elected Prez 4 times. If the people will it, there should be no artificially imposed term limits. Thankfully we don't impose term limits on congress or the senate. Term limits have been terrible for CA.

[Goldmund]

109. The problem with abolishing the presidential term limits is that...

...the institution of Presidency is vulnerable to being turned into a personality cult, and a blurring of the lines between the office and the person holding it. This is already too apparent -- "dare you suggest that the PRESIDENT OF THE US knowingly allowed the murder of 3,000 of his fellow citizens under his watch???" and the assumed outrageousness of that very suggestion, without any other argumentation, is the reason that 9/11 will not be properly investigated any time soon. Almost as if the President is a royal, a divinely annointed person. Presidents for various reasons become popular personalities, and the reason for term limits is to miminize the effect of such cultural phenomena and maximize the influence of political agendas. The people can "will" anything under the right propagandistic spell.

[IA_Seth]

114. Sharon

Maybe Ariel Sharon could run for Prez here and actually run it from the Whitehouse instead of needing to do it from clear across the world.

[MAlibdem]

115. Though I don't like the idea of President Schwarzenegger for prez

I think this amendment would close an important inequality in the constitution

[dave502d]

117. 50-caliber

Breaking with Republican lawmakers who oppose gun control and a Hollywood film career filled with gun play, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed a bill banning .50-caliber BMG rifles.

[ellery]

118. Constitution = fine

Delurking to note that the Constitution is just fine as it is.

[grace0418]

119. I've suspected since the recall

that Dumbya and Ahnold are doing some mutual back-scratching. Arnold sees if he help screw up the election somehow so Cali goes to Bush, and Bush promises to see what he can do about that foreign-born citizens rule. California would be quite a coup for Bush.