A Massive Experiment' In Voting (E-Voting) (Washington Post)

[cthrumatrix]

'A Massive Experiment' In Voting
In D.C. Area and Across Nation, Touch-Screen Machines Face Biggest Test

By Robert MacMillan
washingtonpost.com Staff Writer
Thursday, September 23, 2004; 2:25 PM

Trust the computer. That's what Maryland told Linda Schade.

The Takoma Park resident and Green Party member believes in saving the environment, but also believes that a few trees are worth sacrificing for democracy. She is a co-founder of Truevotemd.org, and among the determined activists around the country who claim that electronic voting machines -- like the touch-screen devices that will count Marylanders' votes this November -- are so shot through with problems that no one will know whether their votes were counted correctly, or at all.

"At first you say, 'God, a computer glitch, is this for real?'" Schade said. "Because in some ways it feels a little bit abstract. But once you get into it a little bit, you realize this is a very serious problem."

She says the machines should offer printed receipts and that voters uncomfortable with the machines should have the option of turning in a paper ballot. Earlier this month the state's highest court upheld a circuit judge's ruling against an injunction that would have forced changes for the upcoming election. As the issue stands now, residents will vote paperless Nov. 2, although the case brought by Schade and seven other plaintiffs -- including several state elected officials and candidates -- will return to the lower court and could still bear on future elections in Maryland

snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39102-2004Sep21.html

time to get serious folks...this is staring us right in the face

[Nebraska_Liberal]

1. I thought about this yesterday.

I thought about this yesterday. Voting machines wouldnt be such a bad idea if they would offer some kind of a reciept and a confirmation # so that you could go back and see who you voted for and if it was counted correctly.

Ned

[unblock]

3. but if YOU can confirm, so can someone else, so you could sell your vote

a touch screen machine could print out a clean, chad-free punch card that you could inspect before placing in a ballot box.

i'd go for that, but nothing more.


WHY are we trying to automate this whole thing anyway?

[cthrumatrix]

4. it's too tough to steal when there are paper ballots...!

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Nebraska_Liberal!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[cthrumatrix]

2. "I see electronic voting machines as undermining democracies,"......(Dean)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39102-20...

[leftchick]

7. God I miss him.....

love ya Howard! :loveya:

[Nebraska_Liberal]

10. I agree.

I totally agree totally. I think they should outlaw all voting machines, but i do not think that will happen, especially here in Nebraska where senator (and the next republican canidate for president, maybe) Chuck Hagel is a former ceo in ES&S. ES&S is the company that makes about half of the voting machines for the country. So at least I know I am stuck with them. If you are gonna have them, you might as well improve them. Until they get rid of them I am voting via absentee ballot and encouraging everyone i know to as well. :)

Ned

[LiberalEsto]

5. Paper ballots

My husband is active in TrueVote Maryland.
During our election 2 years ago, he asked for a paper ballot at our polling place. (People had been asked to do this around Maryland to test whether it was possible to get one)

Well, you'd have thought he was asking for a hand grenade or a rattlesnake, The way the poll workers looked at him. Much hushed conversation about what to do. The answer: you can't get a paper ballot. We both voted on the e-machines and left, and he called the group monitoring the paper ballot issue to report what happened.

WTF is going on in Maryland?

[leftchick]

8. It is not just Maryland....

Happened to me in my precinct in NC. I am voting absentee this year so at least I can actually see my vote. I am not certain it will be counted though... :(

[RevCheesehead]

6. If my grocery store and K-mart can give me a receipt -

then why can't a voting machine?

You know those "scan it yourself & pay w/debit card."
They could even keep a running tally ON PAPER if they wanted to.

Something tells me this election is gonna stink.

[LiberalEsto]

9. My ATM machine is a Diebold

and it gives out receipts.

The MD Board of Elections Chair Linda Lamone said on Lou Dobbs show yesterday that it would be too complicated to hook up printers to the state's 16,000 electronic machines, and also the printers are not approved by the Federal government, and there are no Federal standards for printers for e-voting.

Since when does the Federal government control how individual states handle their voting? I thought it was up to each state to decide.

Another load of crap from Lamone.

[Carolab]

11. It IS total crap

back when the e-voting experts were testifying along with the reps from Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia, there was also a rep from Avanti systems of Japan, who said they already had the paper trail systems, that it was inexpensive to put printers into place and that their systems were proven extremely accurate. Of course, the FEC just ignored this particular piece of information.

Think about it: how much do simple black and white laser printers cost anyway? Very damn little. They need not only receipts that voters can check and maybe even have initialled (by a poll worker) before they leave the polls, but also printouts from each machine at intervals (in case of glitches or "power blackouts") as well as periodic backups...and final printouts after the polls close from each machine against which they can check the totals that go to the state's "zero machines" for final tabulation.

These arguments are just blockades set up to ensure the theft of the election.

[gavodotcom]

12. I wrote my Congressmen a few months ago about this...

...not to mention the local columnists here in Illinois, about paperless voting.

Dick Durbin was the only one to get back to me. Here's the text:

"Thank you for contacting me about a verifiable paper trail for electronic voting machines.

"I share your concerns about this issue. It is essential to safeguard the integrity of the voting process and ensure that all votes are properly counted. To this end, I cosponsored the Help America Vote Act (HAVA), which became law in 2002. HAVA includes voting system standards for federal elections. Beginning in 2006, the standards will require that voting systems produce auditable printed records.

"Concerns have been raised about the possibility of tampering with
electronic voting machines. One proposed solution is to require an
auditable paper voting record for each ballot cast. I support this
approach. I am a cosponsor of the Voting Integrity and Verification Act (S. 2437), a measure introduced by Sen. Ensign of Nevada, which would require a paper trail by 2006. This bill has been referred to the Senate Committee on Rules and Administration. As a member of this committee, I will continue to support efforts to bring the bill to a successful vote in the full Senate.

"Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this important issue.

Sincerely,

Richard J. Durbin
United States Senator"

[librechik]

14. we are so screwed

we never had a chance.

[BadGimp]

15. you are SO Right librechik

Most people don’t even know the half of it.

The basic premise of Accounting 101 is a General Ledger. Every transaction is recorded in the ledger, then posted to the respective account. This begins the audit trail.

Date: Trans #: Item: Amount$: Journal Account#:

These god dammed machines do NOT have a ledger. They simply tally as they go. That leaves NO WAY to review a ledger to know who voted at what time, for what or whom.

This is NO accident. This was done intentionally.

Remember that the software in these machines is secret and not subject to public inspection.

- No inspections of the code
- No Ledger
- No Receipt

The last 2 mean that there is NO audit trail.
So…
- No problem stealing the election now

All you need to be able to do is review the tally, and if you don’t like it, you can access a back door to enter a new tally or use a code to generate one. Since there is no ledger there is no trail to follow or no evidence.

Hypothetical Question: If you were a GOP partisan, and you could write legislation that let your friends build vote counting technology that allowed them to help you steal elections...why wouldn't you? Well they did. And now we have this monumental disaster on our hands.

We are SCREWED on a scale never before imagined in this near death democracy we hold so dear.

It's too late for Nov 04. Nothing can stop them now.

I have a standing bet with any takers $100: regardless of what happens, come Inauguration Day Jan 05, Kerry WILL NOT be sworn in. Bush will be our next President PERIOD.

It sickens me to see this. To think that my father served in the Air Force for 21 years to protect this country", his words, and now it's come to this. We have let him and so many others including ourselves down.

[BeFree]

16. Exactumundo...BadGimp

There is no way to recount the vote... your vote is vaporized.

Now, if a printer was hooked up... that would leave a trace as long as the commands to the printer were saved.

If the election is stolen and there was actually a landslide vote, we may just see a revolt. But I doubt it.

Of course, with a landslide vote for Kerry, the crooks just may back down. But I doubt it.