U.S. veterans ask Bush to halt B.C.'s 'tribute to cowards'

[Manix]

Monument planned for city of Nelson is an insult, they say

David Pugliese
CanWest News Service


September 25, 2004

<snip>


OTTAWA -- The largest combat veteran's group in the United States has asked President George W. Bush to tell the Canadian government that a monument in British Columbia to Vietnam War draft-dodgers should not be built.

The Veterans of Foreign Wars says the proposed monument, to be erected in Nelson, is a tribute "to cowards" and a slap in the face to the 42 million Americans who have served in the military over the years.

"We're asking him to communicate to the Canadian government how insulting this is," said Jerry Newberry, director of communications for the 2.4 million-strong organization. "We understand the president can't tell the leader of the Canadian government what to do. But we are hoping there's going to be some communication there perhaps on the Canadian side that will trickle down" to stop the memorial.

The privately funded monument, as well as a two-day event scheduled for July 2006 in Nelson to honour war resisters, has ignited a controversy in the U.S. News stories have been carried on the Fox cable network and CNN.

Organizers of the event, called Our Way Home, announced their plans at a press conference Sept. 7 in Nelson. The proposed monument will be a bronze statue showing Canadians helping U.S. war resisters.



<snip>


The city of Nelson has highlighted some of the e-mails it has received on its web page. A number are from Americans promising to boycott British Columbia if the monument is built.

"After all of the things the United States has done for you people I am outraged that you would build a monument to the cowardly acts of a few," writes Richard A. Smith of Warrenton, Ore. "Then as I think more on the subject I realize that you are just stupid, and backward thinking ingrates mimicking whatever Frances (sic) way of thinking is at the moment."

Steve Terrell, Sr. of Knoxville, Iowa, writes that Canada is a "country of cowards."

"Say what you want about us Yanks, you should know one thing, we're smarter than you, tougher than you, and we will kick your inbred ass," he writes.

Other Americans, however, were supportive. One woman, who only identified herself as Helen from Maryland, said she looks forward to visiting Nelson. "Don't worry about the ignorant who think its (sic) OK to force others to kill foreign civilians for no good cause," she writes. "Many American mothers bless you, O Canada, land of the truly free."




Vancouver Sun

[AlCzervik]

1. The irony is not lost on me

[bluestateguy]

2. It's none of their business what kind of memorial Canada builds

If Cambodia wants to build a memorial to Pol Pot it's none of our business. These people's lack of respect for the sovereignty of nation-states seems to be infectious because of the influence of these meddling, militaristic, money-grubbing neo-cons.

[Cha]

5. I hope Canada tells bush to

"go fuck yourself"! A la dick cheney, of course!

[Cha]

3. Asking first COWARD to halt a monument

to the intelligent people who didn't want to die in a trumped up war by American politicians..shame on THEM!

[Amigust]

16. Amen !

eom

[wackywill]

40. Not only did they not want to die.

A lot of them didn't want to kill.

Canadians who helped should be proud of themselves. Much like the people of the underground railroad in the US prior to 1860's these people reached out to those fleeing the draft which was very much like modern slavery.

The above is from a Viet Nam Era Vet.

[saigon68]

45. Agreed !!! It took many years To stop the madness

Now some swift boat Liars want to go back there and "WIN" the war.

[Rose Siding]

4. Canada is building our dissenters a monument?

I never heard. That is so sweet! I'm all farklempt :cry:

[AussieDave]

6. The breathtaking arrogance

of Steve Terrell Sr. is exactly the reason the U.S. is held in such low regard overseas. This is the sort of person - the "angry white male" - that the Repugs are targeting in this (and other) elections. And they're getting away with it. And these "angry white males" are too stupid to realize they're being played like cheap fiddles.

[american_mutt]

7. I recall all to well the VFW

And their efforts to exclude Nam vets. F*** em, hard long and deep...

[leesa]

9. Yes. I remember that they metaphorically spit on the Vietnam vets.

Thanks for the reminder.

[tblue37]

26. I don't remember that.

What was their reasoning for excluding Nam vets? And what did they want them excluded from--benefits?

[american_mutt]

28. definition...

Since it was 'only' a police action and not a "real" war...

[happyslug]

72. Reason or Rationale?

The reason the VFW of the 1960s and 1970s did not welcome the Vietnam Vets was the WWII vets had been in charge since 1946, by their mere numbers they over whelmed the WWI vets and just took over. Now the WWI vets welcomed the WWII vets for what the WWII vets were going through were the same problems the WWI vets had faced. I.e. getting a job, buying a home, etc. Many of the WWI vets remember the Bonus Army March (Which come out of the VFW) and saw the homecoming WWII vets as having the same problems as their had had. This quick transaction from WWI vet controlled VFW to a WWII Vet controlled VFW was furthered by Truman's slow demobilization of the Army, which prevented a post war recession like the one that the US had in 1921. All told the takeover was peaceful and complete.

The Korean vets were mostly re-treads from WWII or just a little bit younger than the WWII vets so no major conflicts occurred (The number on Korean only vets were low compared to WWII vets). Come Vietnam you had a generational conflict. Unlike the WWII Vets who outnumbered the WWI vets in 1946, the Vietnam vets were outnumbered by the WWII vets and stayed outnumbered until more and more of the WWII vets became to old to continue to run the various VFW clubs. This change do to aging did not start till the 1980s, thus until the late 1980s WWII vets still ran most VFW Clubs and the Vietnam vets were an afterthought.

This age conflict came into play mostly in what type of lobbying should the VFW do? More care for problems of old age (what the WWII vets wanted) or more care for long term problems of recovering from Fighting (Vietnam vets needs).

This conflict was furthered by the class differences between the WWII vets and the Vietnam Vets. More "Upper Middle Class" people served in WWII than Vietnam and thus the WWII vets tended to be higher income than the Vietnam Vets. This also lead to some problem for as the VFW aged it became less and less a get together of upper class WWII vets and became more and more a get together of working class people. A bigger problem was as the membership aged they accepted that sooner or later for the club to survive the WWII vets would have to get more Vietnam vets involved with the Club (and that meant giving up some of the control of the club, remember these guys had run it since 1946 and were use to running it among themselves). This Generational conflict was the single biggest problem and only resolved with the aging of the WWII veterans.

A further conflict was the refusal of the WWII vets to accept the fact that the Vietnam vets had gone through more combat than most WWII vets. The Third US Army Division saw more combat days than any other WWII unit, but it was in Combat only 154 days during WWII. A average Vietnam vets served 365 days (and if he was an officer only 180 days in combat). Thus more Vietnam vets had seen combat AND HAD BEEN IN COMBAT LONGER than most WWII vets, a fact many WWII vets (especially the one who had never seen actual combat) refused to accept (And this was tied in with the arguments over to lobby for more old age care for veterans or more long term care for psychosocial problems of Veterans).

A further complication was that the VFW was one of the last groups to still support the Vietnam war, even while most Vietnam Veterans opposed the war. Many VFW members did not like the idea of people opposing the war joining their organization. Most local VFW welcomed supporters of the war but these were very few Vets by 1972. Opponents of the war were permitted to join but most of the WWII vets hated permitting them in and treated them coldly for opposing the war.

One last reason for the problem was that when a person joined he like to associate with people of his own age group. Most VFW were basically WWII clubs and did not have many members from Vietnam. Thus you have the classic dilemma, Vietnam vets did not join for they did not feel welcomed for they were few other Vietnam Vets in the Club. The solution was to get more Vietnam Vets in, but that took getting the first few in. Given the Above this took awhile for the Vietnam Vets to feel comfortable joining the VFW. It took awhile but most VFWs todays are more Vietnam War clubs than WWII clubs (And as Vietnam War Clubs are less Vietnam War Clubs than the same Clubs had been WWII clubs in the 1960s).

These were the Reasons for the VFW opposition to letting in Vietnam era vets. Note none of them relate to eligibility. Calling Vietnam a "Police action" instead of a "war" was just a Rationale, the reason was one of the above (and generally all of the above).

The problem solved itself in the 1980s, the Vietnam War was over but its affect on US vets lingered and the VFW did lobby Congress for the Vets. Slowly more and more Vietnam era vets joined up and slowly took over in the 1990s as the WWII vets became to old to run the clubs. The antagonism of Vietnam was papered over (like it was in most of the Country) and Vietnam vets realized that their needed lobbyist in Washington to get them their benefits and the best lobby for Veterans Benefits was the VFW.

My Father had been one of the WWII vets that ran his VFW club, he ended up leaving it for financial reasons in the 1950s (He moved and than ended up in Bankruptcy). My Older Brother (A Vietnam Era Vet) joined and had him re-joined in the early 1980s. So I have seen most of the changes in the VFW since the 1960s and the problems the VFW had in incorporating the Vietnam Vets.

[saigon68]

25. They didn't think it was a war.

Then when they needed the bodies they opened the door.

[davesdrb]

47. VFW membership Vietnam ERA

Greetings: Many NAM Vets have told me that even after given Free Life Membership they were met at the door and prevent entrance, because they had Lost the WAR.

Now the Nam Vet is welcome but most understand its because the older Veterans are dying off.

Its the Veterans decision now IF they want to continue the organization. Dave

[leesa]

8. Well, Steve Terrell's a gem, eh?

I consider people that are smart enough to leave rather than fight a known (by that time)illegal, unethical war to be heros.

Yeah. Americans are smarter than Canadians...that's why we have a healthcare system that is completely broken, we have a 3.6 billion dollar deficit and they have a surplus, we have a destroyed educational system while their's is worldclass. Yeah. We're really smarter dumb shit!

[tuvor]

10. Oh, ferfuxakes.

We're sovereign. We're not invading another country. We'll do as we please, thanks.

:shrug:

[Sugarbleus]

15. Well said Tuvor!

Hasn't Canada helped desperate people from the US over the years, starting a couple hundred years ago? What about the underground railroad? The slavery issues et al.

There are tributes to people who've struggled with all sorts of atrocities over the ages, in different parts of the world. A monument to desperate people of the VN era would be another tribute among many. If the Canadians want to do such a thing...it's their business one way or the other.

I'm very proud of our neighbor Canada; we may never know all the humane acts she has had a hand in. :loveya:

[Roy]

11. A slap in the face???

the irony is they slander and smear actual war heros that served in this countrty.

[FlemingsGhost]

12. Wow! ... wow. So much anger. So much fear.

The arrogance is only surpasssed by the blinding ignorance.

[IndianaGreen]

33. The Vietnam War was the most divisive war since the Civil War

it turned parents against children, and siblings against siblings. The unfortunate use of Vietnam as an issue during Campaign 2004 has only reopened old wounds that should have been left alone.

I don't want to hear the name Vietnam ever again unless it is about veterans traveling to present-day Vietnam to bury the old demons.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. Maybe the NeoCons should have kept their mouths shut instead of...

...loudly proclaiming that decorated Vietnam vets like Cleland, McCain, and Kerry weren't being honest about their war records.

Maybe if FratBoy hadn't flown aboard the carrier in his little flight suit proclaiming "Mission Accomplished", none of this would have come up.

Maybe if the parallels between Vietnam and Iraq weren't so strong, we wouldn't be discussing any of this.

And please don't tell me that you're blaming Kerry or Kerry's campaign for bringing up the Vietnam War.

[IndianaGreen]

73. Iraq and Vietnam are not the same type of quagmire

In South Vietnam we had at least the semblance of a legitimate government that had some popular support. In Iraq the US committed an illegal and criminal war of aggression in which we find ourselves as the foreign occupier.

As to the neocons, I see no difference between the imperialism they envisioned in the PNAC document from the imperialism the neolibs envision in their PPI document. Imperialism is imperialism, even if it has "progressive" as part of the name.

For those that did not live through the Vietnam period of our history, let that damned war rest in peace!

[CHIMO]

13. A Few Facts

The government has nothing to do with this.

Draft-dodger memorial to be built in B.C.
NELSON, B.C. - B.C. activists plan to erect a bronze sculpture honouring draft dodgers, four decades after Americans opposed to the Vietnam War sought refuge in Canada.

Musicians – many of who participated in the anti-war movement – will play at the festival, scheduled for July 8-9, 2006. Historians and critics of U.S. foreign policy will speak and a documentary about American war resisters by director Michelle Mason will be screened.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/09/08/draft_dogers040908.html

Some background.

http://archives.cbc.ca/300c.asp?IDCat=71&IDDos=348&IDLan=1&IDMenu=71

[Maple]

14. I don't understand...

Dubya avoided the war,in his own way, and they all probably want him as president by the sounds of the emailers.

Where is the logic in this?

[Amigust]

17. Maybe Dubya and his Vietnam dodging buddies

could erect a statue commemorating the Texas Air National Guard, aka, Air Canada.

[metis]

18. Give the Mayor of Nelson your support at

[e-mail]

[Amigust]

30. Thanks, I emailed.

eom

[2Design]

19. force others to kill foreign civilians for no good cause - loved this

statement - interesting how one thing can be viewed so differently

I suspect it is rw against it - even though they are unwilling to go to war themselves - to honor dissenters (insurgents) who are unwilling to kill for a government built corporate structure is commendable - I see canada as so much more progressive and open minded then the rw corporate usa that is being built right under our noses

[slor]

20. Will it be a likeness of our...

Coward in Chief?

[Flammable Materials]

21. I hear they're building a special Five Deferments Monolith for Cheney.

They should be happy.

[w4rma]

22. Quick! Look over there at that non-issue! Don't look at Bush's failures!

Distraction. And getting major "news" coverage.

[0007]

37. Stop look and listen! Now what do you think about that?

[beanball]

23. Cowards

Bush and Chaney know cowardice,he is a close friend.

[whirlygigspin]

24. I hope they put Bush/Cheney/Delay's faces on that monument

with the whole list of *cowards who didn't go to VietNam.

[Zhade]

52. I don't. Those who fled to Canada were true heroes.

They fled an illegal war. b*sh and dick started one.

[auburnblu]

59. Then by your logic

Bush is a true hero, because just like those who went to Canada, he did what it took to get out of the war. Give me a break.

[Zhade]

64. Obviously, that's not my logic. Nice try, though.

What makes b*sh different is that he believed the war was right and just and awesome, but refused to risk his own neck for his beliefs. Contrast that to TahitiNut's reply, in which he shares the realization he had about others going in his place. That traitorous chickenhawk squatting in the White House would never be bothered with such a dilemma.

I feel for those who thought (and still think) that Viet Nam was in any way a just war. It wasn't, not at all. But I don't hate those who believed this way and fought for what they thought was right. They were wrong, and they were used. They're victims, not evil men. Some did evil things, but most were good kids who'd been duped.

Those who fled to Canada to avoid killing in what they knew was an unjust war are, IMHO, heroes. Those who fought for a war they wrongly believed was necessary are, tragically, heroic in their own way, and also worthy of our respect for their ideals, if not for their actions.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. No, give ME a break! FratBoy did nothing on his own...his daddy....

...got him the spot in the Texas Air National Guard. FratBoy didn't know who to contact, much less what to do when he got there.

And just to make sure sonny-boy didn't have to do any of the work required of an enlisted man, daddy got him appointed as an officer WITHOUT any prior ROTC or OCS training. There's even a very touching picture of proud daddy pinning on sonny-boy's rank.

By the way, FratBoy signed a contract and didn't fulfill his part of the bargain. He went AWOL instead, and should have been charged with desertion after he was AWOL for more than 30 days. Americans were still dying in Vietnam when FratBoy decided to "do his own thing".

At least those that fled to Canada had the courage of their own convictions and stuck to them.

[TahitiNut]

60. Some were. Some weren't.

Such broad brushes are too large for me to carry anymore. Let's try to keep in mind that both courage and cowardice are premised on conscious belief and vulnerability. Sometimes, a proclaimed belief is 'convenient' and sometimes it's heartfelt. I don't read hearts.

BushJr was unarguably a coward. Still is.

Those running to Canada were some of each. Some had family and friends there. Some had financial support. I've heard the language isn't difficult to learn.

As a Detroiter, born and raised, some suggested that I should've gone to Canada. It's only a couple of miles away ... and, being a computer programmer, I doubt I would've found it difficult to find employment. It's not like my family or friends would've encountered a great deal of expense or inconvenience to meet me for dinner in Windsor.

I wasn't all that politically aware. I knew there were serious questions about our increased involvement. I also knew both Eisenhower and Kennedy had supported our involvement there. I didn't particularly like the argument from many that "it's their country - let them clean up the mess." Then, as now, I feel we're a human community above and beyond being national communities. Distance didn't make them less in my view. (Then again, should the same 'logic' apply to Korea?)

What tipped the scale for me was thinking that if I didn't go then someone else would have to go in my place.

[PROUDNWLIBERAL]

27. Monument

I'd like to see the Canadians make a monument the size of the Colossus of Rhodes right on the boarder with the United States. Actually, it would be nice to build a monument here in the United States. If nothing else it would kill off with apoplexy some of the fossils in the VFW.

[Spinzonner]

29. They're just sore 'cause they don't have a monument of their own

Perhaps we can ask the nice people to also build a monument to people who went AWOL from the National Guard.

[Carolab]

31. This idiot in Oregon

who said, "Then as I think more on the subject I realize that you are just stupid, and backward thinking ingrates mimicking whatever Frances (sic) way of thinking is at the moment."

doesn't even know the difference between western Canada and eastern Canada--and he lives just below BC.

These people just spout whatever hateful thing some other dumbass has spewed, like it's some kind of gotcha--"oh yeah, well, we know about YOU, you, you ... you CANADIANS, you!"

[Hekate]

32. Thanks, Canada. I think that's really sweet.

Our extreme rightward shift has got to be a little scary for our neighbors. I don't know if that door will be quite as open to us this time around, what with one thing and another, but I have a feeling the Canadian people themselves will still try to help those in need.

A friend sent me this: **I found a great quote while hunting for more information about emigration to Canada. "I've occasionally imagined myself showing up on Canada's doorstep like a kid from a dysfunctional household and saying 'Can I hang out here for awhile? My country's gone crazy again. I'll go home when they calm down and sober up.'" Could be a long wait.**

Hekate
who thinks her country's on the verge of going crazy alright

[ixion]

35. nice metaphor

and so true... :cry:

[banana republican]

34. iF THE mORON IN CHIEF

HAD SERVED I MIGHT AGREE; HOWEVER HE DIDN'T; HE IS A COWARD; SO WHAT???

[andy15]

36. Steve Terrell, Sr. of Knoxville, Iowa, writes that Canada is a "country of

Cowards...At least our friends who came up here are alive...takes great courage for a child of 18 or 19 to leave all, many facing the scorn of their own families. As for Canadians being cowards...we are blessed that whatever is left of the Canadian educational system...kids here in Canada are still taught what the words Vimy Ridge, Flanders and a whole slew of battleground's throughout this planet where our young lie buried. Mr Terrell might want to know why the White House is called the White House...was called the Presidential Palace till it and most of Washington was burnt to the ground in response to the burning of York (now Toronto)...believe it was the last time your country was successfully invaded.

But to be totally serious...we Canadians are just pleased as punch that the Yanks have again removed the likes of Saddam as it may have disrupted our hockey season...oh yeah some Yank lawyers who have taken over the NHL have locked out the players for what looks like a year. Guess all we will have to do this winter is clean our muskets and plan for another invasion to retrieve our lost honour from those such as Mr Terrell.

andy

[Darth_Kitten]

38. Here's the link fo the guestbook!!!

http://www.city.nelson.bc.ca/guestbook/view1.php


:hi:

[Iceburg]

39. Here's what Canadians think ...

Maclean's - Feb. 9, 2004 CANADIANS TO BUSH: HOPE YOU LOSE, EH

Cover Story
HOPE YOU LOSE, EH (pg.22) - According to a new poll, only 15 per cent of Canadians would cast a vote for George W. Bush.

---------------------
Macleans is popular Canadian weekly mag ... very much like a cross between Newsweek & Time mags.

[jdonaldball]

41. Canadian cowards? Tell it to the Black Watch!

As I said in a dupe thread (repeating here):
Canada was in WWII long before America got off of its neutral ass.
Canadians were fighting against Hitler for two years before Americans did.
Anyone who calls Canada a "country of cowards" can tell it to the Black Watch, and then you'll be shitting your teeth out of your ass for a month. (And of course this is for any lurking Freepers to consider. You say Canadians are cowards? Tell it to Canada's Black Watch, all you lurking Freeper cowards!)
Head for head, per capita, Canadians have shed far more blood than Americans in the great wars against totalitarianism.
Canada? Land of cowards? Say it on Normandy Beach. Head for head, Canada lost even more blood than America did at Normandy.
Invitation to lurking Freepers: Go tell ANY Western veteran of the Second World War - tell any of them, Canadian, British, or American - tell any of them that the Canadians are cowards, and you'll chew on your own teeth for a month.
And THEN, Freepers, go visit Westminster Abbey in London, and see the stained glass window memorial for all of the British Commonwealth Air Force warriors - including thousands of Canadians - who, as Churchill said, "Never have so few given so much for so many." (Paraphrasing here - but yes the CANADIANS helped to defend Western civilisation against Hitler, two years before any Americans did!)
And at the bottom of that memorial FOR CANADIANS at Westminster Abbey, some lines from Shakespeare's "Henry the Fifth", for the Candadians: "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers."
That memorial does not include any mention of Americans. Because, the Americans were not part of the Battle of Britain in 1940, when Britain and Canada stood alone to defend Western civilisation. America was not part of that battle. But Canada was!
Freeper scum. You don't know what a real warrior is until you've met one from Canada.
(Note to DUer's, sorry for the invective, but I just wanted to unleash against the lurking Freepers who, no doubt, will read this thread and wonder what our response will be. HERE is the response.
Freepers can just shut up about Canada unless and until the Freepers enlist for combat...until then, Freepers, you should bow your heads with respect for all Canadians, a land of warriors...) :-)

[Mr E McSquare]

42. CANADA the country the U.S. pretends to be.

My son was born in hamilton and lives in Toronto. Thank god he wasnt born down here and theres no chance of him being drafted!

[olddad56]

43. The cowards didn't go to Canada, they joined the Nat'l Guard

Or in my case, the Navy. In the late 60's, before the draft went to a lottery system, people joined the National Guard to beat the draft. I went in the Navy because that seemed safer than the Army. As luck would have it, I wound up in the Navy as an air crewman flying reconnaissance flights out of DaNang. I don't regret the experience in terms of my growth as a person, but I knew the war was wrong. The National Guard is very different today, but the people who joined the Nat'l Guard as a way out of the draft were held in low regard. I have always respected the people who had the courage to go to Canada, if they were going because they knew the war was immoral. I respect people who joined the military and served, if the believed in what they were doing.

[sr_pacifica]

57. hear, hear

It takes courage to risk alienation by your family, friends and community. The easier way out is to follow what is expected of you even though you have doubts about the rightness of the act. I agree, that respect is due to those who did whatever they felt was the right thing to do, even if it was to go fight in Vietnam. Those who served in Vietnam, it must be remembered, did not have all the facts, the history, of the conflict and went based on an idealism fostered by the government that they were defending America and saving the Vietnamese people from tyrants.

[Cat Atomic]

44. What's the difference between Bush/Cheney draft dodging and

people who went to Canada to flee the Draft?

Answer: One is a moral coward, the other is not.

Bush and Cheney supported the war in Vietnam, but refused to go themselves. They avoided the war by exploiting a rigged system that benefitted the rich.

People who went to Canada, I would expect, did not support the war, but couldn't just make a phone call and get an easy exemption.

[Zorra]

46. OK...why was the US at war in Vietnam? How did we fight for our

"freedom" there?

A bunch of guys left the US because they did not want to go kill people in some other country, people that they did not know and who had done nothing to them or their country.

They did not want to kill these people simply so that people like the Bu$h family, Dick Cheney, and Henry Kissinger could make enormous profits from the war. This was the only reason for the war in Vietnam. Nothing else. I'm truly sorry for everyone that fought and died or was injured or otherwise had their life shattered in any way by that senseless war. But we have to stop glorifying serving in that war. Really, really, evil monstrous people used Americans and Americans for greedy, sinister purposes in Vietnam. Most of the US troops that fought in Vietnam were lied to, and did not even really understand why they were fighting in Vietnam. They were a bunch of kids who were used by the most evil people on this planet.

It's over.

This fucking myth that fighting in Vietnam was somehow "noble" is bullshit and has got to stop. It is time for the US to face the fact that the reasons given by the US Govt. for going to war in Vietnam were complete fabrications, and anyone smart enough to see this and avoid the war was not a coward but, in all reality, a sensible and perceptive human being.

You can bully and bluster and scream and yell all you want, but this won't change the sad fact that Vietnam was nothing but a bullshit war started by rich people who abused American people and resources and killed and injured hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in order to make humongous profits for themselves.

Just like the US is doing right now in Iraq.

You want to be a patriot? Then stop living in some fucking fantasy where you believe that fighting in Vietnam was somehow noble and virtuous, and stand up to this RW corporate US government and tell them "NO MORE AMERICANS WILL DIE FOR CORPORATE GREED".

That is what real patriots do.

So, what was the war in Vietnam all about?

What is the war in Iraq all about?

Support Our Troops, Bring Them Home.

[Karenina]

49. You GOOOOO Zorra!!!!!

WHAT YOU SAID!!! :toast:

[Zhade]

53. HELL. YES.

Exactly right. Exactly.

I've even seen DEMS say Viet Nam was "noble". That's a lie, and that they believe such a horrific lie really saddens me.

Bust the myth. You're damn right, Zorra.

[TahitiNut]

61. Does the same go for Korea?

:shrug:

[struggle4progress]

48. Maybe we could build a Chickenhawk Memorial in DC ...

.. to honor gutless warmongers: "You go die! We'll stay here and cheer!"

[Joanne98]

55. LOL Ask Nelson city if they'll do it... They can have two memorials

One for people of conscience with MORAL VALUES and one for EVIL GREEDY COWARDLY WAR PROFITEERS.

[mrbassman03]

66. Heck yeah!

One at every National Guard post that once held a son of corporate executives or politicians!

[Gyre]

50. I predict * will be all over this.

It's the kind of emotional trash that he can capitize on to roil up the nascar crowd; plus he gets to trash Canada. Fits his MO. Now if he can link Kerry to it it'll be perfect.

Gyre

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. I guess pretty soon we'll be eating "Freedom Bacon" instead of....

..."Canadian Bacon".

[Zhade]

51. Fuck these guys. The war was wrong, and they're the cowards.

There is no moral courage in supporting and hiding behind an illegal war, you fucking morons.

You're the real cowards.

[JSJ]

71. that's what i say nt

[Joanne98]

54. IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!

SUPPORT THE CITY OF NELSON....
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>

Tell them to tell the fucking NAZI Bush to SHUT THE FUCK UP. He's not KING OF THE WORLD...

I SUPPORT NELSON CITY 100%.........

[Bo]

56. We have been spinning Vietnam as a great war

It was a disaster, I would not have gone to the corporate run death mill.

[Shallah Kali]

58. I guess I am uninformed, just what has America done for Canada

besides share pollution & acid rain?

quote
"After all of the things the United States has done for you people I am outraged that you would build a monument to the cowardly acts of a few," writes Richard A. Smith of Warrenton, Ore. "Then as I think more on the subject I realize that you are just stupid, and backward thinking ingrates mimicking whatever Frances (sic) way of thinking is at the moment."

[Minstrel Boy]

62. Besides an invasion or two, sponsoring terrorism (the Fenian Raids) and

Wallmarting us half to death?

Other than that, you've been the best of neighbours! ;)

[camero]

63. This is from CanWest News Service

Canada's version of Fox. The article should have included Trudeau's statement that Canada should be a place for people trying to escape militarism. Good on Nelson for helping the cause of peace.

An uncle that I've never seen was one of those who sought refuge in Canada during the Vietnam War. Noone in my family has seen him since either so I wonder if he's still there sometimes.

[despairing optimist]

65. The axis of evil widens to include . . . Canada?

These nuts will stop at nothing if * gets a second term. How can we contain them? They need lots of medication, fast.

[NVMojo]

70. Maybe Kerry should ask Bush WHY he didn't prefer to go to Nam?

I think that would be a great debate question. HAHA!