Bush Maintains Lead in Post-ABC News Poll

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54435-2004Sep27.html?referrer=email

President George W. Bush maintains a clear lead over Democrat John F. Kerry and continues to be perceived by most voters as the candidate best able to deal with Iraq and the war on terrorism, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll.

Bush currently receives 51 percent among likely voters while Kerry gets 45 percent and independent Ralph Nader receives 1 percent. Among all registered voters, Bush holds a seven-point advantage.

By healthy margins, Bush continues to be seen as the stronger leader and better able than Kerry to keep the United States secure from terrorist attacks. On virtually every other issue and measure of character, Bush holds the advantage over his rival among registered voters -- findings that underscore the importance of the upcoming presidential debates to the Kerry campaign.

Kerry continues to be viewed unfavorably by a plurality of voters. Fewer than four in 10 voters -- 37 percent -- say they have a positive impression of him, while 42 percent have an unfavorable impression of him. That finding suggests more people intend to vote for him than personally like him and highlights the fact that Kerry continues to be buoyed by a strong anti-Bush vote despite broad reservations about him.

[Rageneau]

1. The Bright Side To A Smirk Victory...

is that Kerry and the Dems will not be stuck with an impossible mess to clean up -- which the Pukes will loudly blame them for not cleaning up immediately.

Sometimes I feel like the emporer Claudius: If the people are dumb enough to want Nero, let them have him.

Of course, we will all suffer if Smirk gets elected, but at least it ought to soon become very obvious -- even to the creepiest freeper -- that Bush is the worst president ever!

[CBHagman]

40. Very true. The presidency is not a prize this time.

Whoever gets it gets a mess to clean up and probably a lot of blame.

Also, look at the negatives on Bush. This ought to put paid to the WP's old mantra of "popular wartime president." Bush is polarizing and owes much of his lead to negative campaigning, from what I can tell. Unless he has a road to Damascus conversion of some kind, he will continue to be polarizing and deeply, deeply hated by a significant percentage of the population. He faces divisions in his own party and a crushing burden of debt.

Whatever happens, it won't be pretty. But we still need to keep working to get the vote out. I'll do it every weekend until Election Day, end of story.

[Mr_Spock]

43. Well, I hope Kerry wins too, but these damned freepers are going

to suffer 4 years of the worst hell they can ever imagine if he is re-elected. There will be harassed everywhere they go.

[milburn]

60. Why is everyone being negative?

The president election is not done. We've got still time to win this. We've got the "two-faced" icon that was talked about before. Look here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x900717

This is good because it shows what this bush is about. Stop being negative here please! Senator Kerry can win the debate this week and win the leadership.

[lancdem]

48. I was thinking exactly the same thing

Bush's second term will be an unmitigated disaster. Of that I'm 100 percent certain. If he wins this year it's only because he scared enough people into voting for him and not for Kerry, not because he did a good job his first four years. All the chickens will come home to roost in the next four years.

[tomfodw]

50. And what was his first term? Chopped liver?

Bush's first term was an unmitigated disaster - and guess what? For some unfathomable reason lots of people are still going to vote for him.

Bush's second term will be an irretrievable, irremediable, irredeemable catastrophe of Hollywood disaster movie proportions. God help us all if he wins.

[derby378]

2. Kerry's campaign is hemorrhaging

Bush is the easiest candidate for President to defeat in our nation's history - and every recent poll still shows him with a comfortable lead over Kerry.

What is it we have to do to get it through people's skulls? Why won't the Kerry campaign act like they want to win this election?

[Kahuna]

3. Bush has the media pimping for him 24/7. If not for the media,

he wouldn't be in the White House today.

[derby378]

5. I blame Katherine Harris, Tom DeLay, and the SCOTUS

And also, for that matter, Karl Rove and Diebold.

The only real connection with the media is Bush's cousin over at FOX News - but look how quickly everyone fell in line behind FOX.

[Melodybe]

6. I guess they for got the 250% more democratic voters in OH

and the 60% more democratic voters in FL.

Oh well, to the polls!

[AndyTiedye]

18. But They Just Threw Out All the New Dem Voter Registrations in Ohio

they say the paper is the wrong thickness. :cry:

[Skip Intro]

23. You're not serious

please tell me you're not serious

[AndyTiedye]

27. Read it and Weep - Along With The Rest of Us

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/27/112229/106

DU Thread (now the top story on the DU homepage!):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x905337


Ohio rejects 1000s of voter registration applications due to paper weight.
by Thistime
Mon Sep 27th, 2004 at 19:48:44 GMT

(From the diaries -- kos)

When voter registration applications were maintained for years and used to verify signatures for petitions a requirement that the cards be on 80 lb. stock paper was adopted in Ohio, that law remains on the books. Since the applications are now scanned for preservation, there is no current need to continue that requirement. Today the only time that the heavy weight paper becomes an issue is when the new voter uses the application as a postcard. If heavy paper isn't used for postcards the machinery jams at the Post Office.

In the final days before the registration deadline Ken Blackwell, Ohio Secretary of State, has ordered the local election boards to send out new applications to applicants who have submitted registrations on the wrong paper. The ostensible reason for this order is to insure that the applications can make it through the postal system without being damaged. The Secretary didn't point to any examples of voters who were stupid enough to mail regular weight paper as a postcard, nor did he cite examples of complaints from the Postal Service that this has been a problem. Never mind also that the applications he wants thrown out have already been delivered to the election boards safely.

The local boards have been bombarded with applications and will be unable to comply with Blackwell's order before the deadline to register to vote for this November's election. In one county common sense has prevailed:
In Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) the board of elections officials are ignoring the edict because they have already had an avalanche of new registrations submitted on forms printed on the newsprint in The Plain Dealer.

<snip>
Ironically, if an applicant downloaded the federal form onto paper that is not regulation, that application will be accepted in compliance with federal law. So in reality there is no substantive issue with the weight of the paper, the Secretary's order is simply to create a roadblock to limit new registration.

Katherine Harris should have been so cunning.

http://www.daytonforkerry.com/Blackwell.pdf

or Dayton Daily News (subscription only)

:cry::cry::cry:

[Skip Intro]

28. No f***ing way

Oh my God.

I do not , I can't , I...I have no words.

This is just unbelievable.

These cowardly, unAmercian right wing thugs clearly f**king hate democracy.

I just can't believe this.

[AndyTiedye]

29. Dems Can Work Their Fingers to the Bone

and the Repubs can just wipe all that work away with a stroke of a pen.

[farmbo]

64. No...only those of "wrong thickness" and even they have 5 days to re-file

We'll still take Ohio...by 2%.

[dennis4868]

8. Thats what I always say....

can you imagine oif the media would give serious scrutiny over the forged niger docs, outing valerie plame, the lies in the run up to the war, the fraud that went into the medicare bil, etc, etc, etc,.....

Bush would be forced to step down as President if the media would do its damn job instead of waiting for the next Kerry flip flop.

[rocktivity]

7. The polls are a setup

Corporate media polls, like ABC are deliberately oversampling Republican voters to keep the Bush white house happy in return for access and favorable legislation. The non-corporate media polls, Like Zogby and Rassmussen, have Kerry within the margin of error.

:headbang:
rocknation

[Democat]

13. The problems for the Kerry campaign are not today, but months ago

The Kerry campaign failed to make the case about Bush to the American people when they had the chance, which was many months ago. You cannot make a case in a few weeks, it takes time, as the Republicans understood.

The Republicans had a long term focused strategy to undermine Kerry. The Kerry campaign seems to have had no plan at all. They didn't start seriously attacking Bush until September, they ignored the Swift attacks for weeks, they change their theme constantly, etc.

The problem we face now is that so much time and money was wasted by this campaign that all must be somehow fixed in the few weeks left before the election. It's too late to define Bush - that would have taken months, like the Republicans spent months defining Kerry.

No matter who wins this race, the early months of the Kerry campaign should be studied in political strategy classrooms as a classic fuck up and lack of coherent and effective strategy.

So much time and money wasted.

[JCMach1]

42. They are undermining his position with the reason many

of us didn't support Kerry in the primaries...

HIS POSITION ON IRAQ!

This election is about the war ('stupid') as Carville might say...

If Kerry is to have a shot, he must breakthrough and offer something 'new' on Iraq...

If not, you fill in the blank...!

[demoman123]

30. The problem is the candidate--Kerry does not radiate strength anymore.

He did as a young man. But he's lost the fire somewhere along the line. Even his gestures are limp. In a time of national crisis, people want a candidate that manifests strength. Bush, who is a moron and a war criminal, nevertheless does the "strength" bit much better than Kerry. This is capturing the swing vote.

I don't think there is a thing that Kerry can do about this. But maybe the debates will show what a moron Bush is, and this will begin to make people devalue the appearance of strength.

[Sideways]

33. This is RW Crap

Bush exudes BO not fucking strength. What exactly are you hoping to gain by posting such blatant hooey?

[demoman123]

35. Well, it may be crap, but it is not "RW."

The moral high point of Kerry's life was his testimony against the Vietnam War. He had real charisma then. Just watch some of the old footage and you can see it.

And BTW, please keep your hostility to yourself. This isn't personal.

[Career Prole]

52. So bush looks like strength to you?

He looks like a pussy to me. Thanks for the input, though. :grr:

[demoman123]

58. He looks like "strength" to many Americans, who want an authority figure.

I guess you didn't read the post you are replying to, where I said,

"Bush, who is a moron and a war criminal, nevertheless does the "strength" bit much better than Kerry."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=868567&mesg_id=869511

You really might consider reading something besides the headlines in these threads before you answer them. It would improve the quality of your posts.

[Career Prole]

59. I read your entire post and you expressed your *opinion* that shrub

characterizes strength better than Kerry. I expressed my opinion that you were wrong. Don't reply back with any garbage about what "the polls" say about shrub, either...I'll save you that by telling you that I also hold along with most others here the opinion that the polls are crap this cycle. End of story.
You really should avoid making assumptions about a person's reading or writing talents based on whether or not they agree with you. It might tend to cause them to make assumptions about you.

Cheers!

[demoman123]

61. I said "Bush does the 'strength' bit better." And it's true, he does.

And Kerry had better project more strength in the debates. That's what most Americans want in a time of national crisis.

If that upsets your worldview, it's high time it was upset.

[Career Prole]

63. I'd say offhand we have very different ideas of what constitutes

strength then, because by any measure of the word I still disagree with your analysis. Whether it be physical prowess, raw courage, moral strength, or strength of reasoning Kerry is far superior to shrub.
Although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Bush does the 'strength' bit better", based on all available evidence John Kerry is strong and shrub is a weasel.
There may have been a poll you've paid undue attention which asked "which candidate in your opinion would make a stronger leader", but I dismiss value judgments of poll participants who are also saying in those same polls that they "don't know enough about John Kerry".
As for your opinion of shrub "upsetting my worldview" it would take more than someone throwing a few jabs at bush but saving the haymaker for Kerry's chin. I'll admit it's disconcerting when I see it in this particular forum in posts such as yours. It's the same tactic the media have been using and they don't sway my "worldview" one way or another either.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

32. What is it you don't seem to understand about polls owned and...

...operated by conservatives?

[Charles19]

49. Exactly, Big Media is Big Business

Not only that but all these anchors on these TV networks make huge salaries, they have had their taxes cut tremendously by Bush.

[RobinA]

37. I'm Sorry,

this cannot be laid on Kerry as a candidate. He's no Clinton, but most candidates aren't. If the FACTS can't win this election for him, it can't be won. If a majority of voters chose to ignore all evidence that Bush is willfully incompetent (to put it mildly) and vote for him, there's nothing a mortal opposing candidate can do.

Frankly, I'm sick of this notion that Kerry is too dour, too elitist, has a European wife, can't relate to the common man, doesn't have an Iraq plan reducable to one sentence, doesn't reach out to women, farmers, union members or astronauts, isn't animated enough, talked too much about Vietnam, is too smart, didn't make a campaign stop in East Timbuktu, or any other stylist point someone wants to mock him on.

This election is about torture, an unecessary war, prison camps in Cuba, a failed plan in Afghanistan, a humongo deficit, women's rights, and a total lack of regard for any citizen who isn't a rich company owner. And those are just the obvious issues that any voter who is conscious should be at least aware of. If those points can't trump "too dour," the Bush voters deserve what they get and the rest of us will just have to hope for the best. This isn't freakin' Star Search, and it shouldn't be judged as such. And if people insist upon voting like it is, maybe our time is up.

[trogdor]

41. You're right.

I heard Kerry the other day on NPR, and I thought, "there isn't a goddam thing wrong with this candidate." Compared to Bush, I find Kerry's voice soothing and reassuring, while I am ready to scream every time I hear Bush's fake-ass redneck accent stumbling over something he supposedly feels strongly about, and ought to be able to make flow from his cakehole like air. If we (present company excluded) put him back in the White House for another four years, we will deserve what happens next.

[SammyWinstonJack]

45. I don't want to think of what happens next

:scared:

[Career Prole]

53. On the bright side, if shrub steals another one we'll have lots of time

for an impeachment. I'd almost rather he went down in shame and ignominy than a plain old vanilla election loss if there weren't people dying already because of the idiot.

[kymar57]

57. excellent post Robin

My sentiments exactly

[Invalence1]

65. Sadly, I must applaud

your extremely well put (and accurate) assessment. Who was it that said "No one ever went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American people."? (or words to that effect). "We, the people" have morphed into an audience rather than a constituency, valuing "style" over "substance".

[shockingelk]

4. Graph - all numbers rising for Kerry

http://www.fearofclowns.com/text/net_difference_poll_results/

This is a net 3 gain for Kerry from the last ABC/WP poll.

[derby378]

9. Not fast enough

Remember what all the polls started saying in the final weeks of the 2000 campaign? "Too close to call." I don't want to hear that as we get closer to 11/2 - I want to hear "Kerry drubbing Bush in latest polls."

[sonicx]

10. not gonna happen

some rupubs will never stray from their master. And many have this warped idea that you have to stick with a dead horse during a 'war.'

[shockingelk]

16. These polls do not measure republican discontent

The way the questions are asked give no good option for people who always vote for the same party but will sit this one out. Pretend you're a Rep voter who thinks Bush is the worst Republican president ever. Someone calls you and asks,

If the 2004 presidential election were being held today, would you vote for George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, the Republicans, John Kerry and John Edwards, the Democrats, or Ralph Nader and Peter Camejo, the independents?

Your answer would be "Bush/Cheney"

The pollsters then determine if you're a likely voter based on questions that show little about that sentiment.

[bagnana]

11. With a plus or minus 3 margin of error, how can they say

he has a clear lead? Even using their imbalanced sampling, that is a statistical tie!!!! In other words, it means Kerry "could" have as many as 48 and Bush "could" have as many as 48. That is within the margin of error! How is that a clear lead? What freaking irresponsible journalism this is!!!

[Carolab]

12. I say we draw and quarter

ALL news whores--oh wait, that would be EVERYONE

[shockingelk]

14. most people don't understand statistics

The bigger problem is they say Bush has a clear lead - it's just as true that his lead is clearly shrinking.

[sonicx]

15. Kerry trails independents by 3

49 percent - 46 percent

Gore lost independents by 3

[Malva Zebrina]

17. Really sad

An ignorant man who was not elected, who took us into a war in which thousands were slaughtered and all done with arrogant, unforgivable lies, who has shown no interest whatsoever for the plight of the people, except for the rich, to whom he gives more money which they promptly stash away in the Cayman Islands or other places, who cannot articulate a coherant thought, yet has his finger on our plight and on the nuke button,and does not have the intellect to think things through, who is involved with the PNAC and we know what his next move will be because of that and who is a psychological nut case who cannot admit that he has made a mistake and stubbornly in all his arrogance, insists all he has done is right and he would, incredibly do it again, is ahead in the poles?

This should not be. I blame the media for propping up his outrageous lies for the past four years--and failing to tell the people the truth or at the very least the other side of the story. I blame the entire corporate controlled, greedy media.

If he wins we are indeed a destroyed nation and a destroyed democracy.

[tmooses]

19. The media reflects how corporate culture

has shaped public attitudes. One of the big changes in this country over the last few years is the development of the "entertain me" mentality of the general public and the right wing understood this. That's why we have scumbags like O'Reilly, Limbaugh,Hannity,etc. being so popular. They knew that if it's entertaining (especially in a comic/book simple sort of way) that the public will suck in to the content. Now we have people accepting entertainers as gospels of truth
and forming their opinions.

[dennis4868]

24. Very well said Marianne

i think the repubs would forced to impeach Bush abnd Cheney if the people were informed by the media regarding Bush's crimes, lies, corruption, and fraud!

[demoman123]

31. It's not just the media. A lot of our fellow Americans want to "kick ass."

A lot of Americans want to be dominant and control the world. Look at the monster trucks and SUVs they drive. Look at the movies they watch. It's all about power and control and taking out your hostility on people.

Even this forum is not entirely free from such attitudes. There's plenty of hostility right here on this board. And Bush offers people another opportunity to act out their aggressions in the war. The only thing that will turn these people against Bush is losing. And that will probably not happen before the election.

[robbedvoter]

20. Polls are manufactured news - like the other propa, only disguised as fact

See Gallup making s* up in 2000:

http://edition.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/10/27/tracking.poll/

[BayCityProgressive]

21. unfortunately

I see these polls to be true and I really worry for this campaign. I work at SBC and I am in a union environment.2 months ago 16 of my 17 co-workers backed kerry. Now 4 say they wont even vote at all, and 3 have switched to Bush.:-( hopefully this is just my office but th epolls would suggest otherwise.

[lancdem]

47. You work in California, right?

At least that's not a swing state.

[VegasWolf]

22. Argh!! Bush maintains lead among "unLIKELY Voters", even

polls of "registered voters" are all over the map.

By definition, someone is wrong!

Kerry is climbing FAST!

[hansolsen]

25. DOW dropped below 10,000 today. That is also a "Poll", and some

people have long said that if the DOW is above 10k on Nov 2, Bush is in good shape to win, at least on the economy.

If it is under 10K on Nov 2, Bush is in big trouble.

So I'll bet if Rove could choose between ABC / WP poll (rigged as hell, and Rove knows it) showing Shrub with only a 6 point lead, or having the DOW comfortably over 10K, he would go with the DOW every time.

[VegasWolf]

26. dup, sorry

[dave123williams]

34. This means NOTHING until Friday morning.

It's all about the debates, baby.

[llmart]

38. Yes, but I think the lapdog media.....

will fawn all over Bush and declare him the winner, even if he shows up drunk and pissing in his pants. The other posters on this thread are right about the media. They have sunk to new lows because they have been threatened by this administration. Look at what happened to Helen Thomas when she had the audacity to question them in one of the few press conferences the idiot gave. She got relegated to the back of the room.

[dave123williams]

46. Decisive victory in the Debates....

I like to think of this as a boxing match:

1. Everybody knows boxing is corrupt to the core.

2. If you let it go to a 12th round decision by corrupted judges (the corporate media), you're going to get a bogus decision.

3. A knock-out punch by Kerry is the only way to have an unquestioned win.

Kerry has to step up, and punch this bitch in the face. Rhetorically.

[SalParadise]

54. The debates mean very little also - read JM's post today here:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

It's going to take us getting out the vote to win this, plain & simple.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leesa]

39. Right. Kerry is drawing 10000-15000 people to his rallies

despite no media coverage. Bush can't bring anyone in except the people he buses in and even some of those don't show up. Yet the media would like us to believe he's leading.

You made a bad investment mediawhores!

[nolabels]

44. I have a hard time finding any rallys for bush over 500 people

(the link to the bush Picture is dead to this one below)

Compare and contrast: Bush and Kerry rallies
by kos
Mon Aug 16th, 2004 at 23:02:17 GMT


(snip)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/16/19217/9455

But I did find this picture when I punched up Bush + Rally


http://www.exoticdogs.com/presidents/display.php?p=40

What could this mean :shrug:

[Charles19]

51. They don't have time to filter out free thinkers if it is more than 500

[pinniped]

55. Wow, morans can't wait to sacrifice their kids to the * war machine.

Draft the repukes and leave everyone else alone.

[asian_al]

56. Good for bush

Good for that piece of shit. POlls don't mean shit anyway right now. A week after the last debate the polls will matter, and hopefully JOHN KERRY will be in the lead.

All bush is gonna say during the debates is "oh kerry flip flops" because that's all they really got. Bush is gonna throw other dirty cheap shots, but kerry will come out victorious.

[IndianaGreen]

62. We have registered a lot of new voters this year, none of whom were polled

That's the secret weapon that the anti-Bush forces have, the countless new voters that will vote for the first time ever, or for the first time in a long time, because they are disgusted with the way Bush/Cheney have run this country to the ground.

Our biggest challenge on Election Day is not the polls, but getting people to the polls!

[Invalence1]

66. And not having their registrations disqualified at the last minute

[Almost_there]

67. "Likely voters are NOT new voters!"

The best thing about the whole "likely voters" indicator is that it completely dismisses new registrants, only those who have voted in something like 3 out of the last 5 elections are "likely" and those numbers are CLOSE! Things are looking up for Kerry, no doubt!!

~Almost