For Metro, a Case of Too-Free Speech(Arrested too loud on cell phone)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55325-2004Sep27?language=printer

Sakinah Aaron was walking into the bus area at the Wheaton Metro station several weeks ago, talking loudly on her Motorola cell phone. A little too loudly for Officer George Saoutis of the Metro Transit Police.

The police officer told Aaron, who is five months pregnant, to lower her voice. She told the officer he had no right to tell her how to speak into her cell phone.

Their verbal dispute quickly escalated, and Saoutis grabbed Aaron by the arm and pushed her to the ground. He handcuffed the 23-year-old woman, called for backup and took her to a cell where she was held for three hours before being released to her aunt. She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest.

<snip>

But Aaron and some defenders of free speech say the Transit Police are the ones who overstepped boundaries by making a crime out of conversation and pushing a pregnant woman to her knees. The incident took place out of doors and not in the confines of a rail car or bus, they note.

And they point to a string of other incidents, including the July arrest of a 45-year-old woman for chewing a PayDay candy bar and the 2000 arrest of a 12-year-old girl for eating a french fry, that are earning the Transit Police a national reputation as an agency itching to lock up riders.

A fantasy for most of us that something should happen to these inconsiderate cell phone louts. But the Metro Police are becoming Gestapo IMHO.

[arcos]

1. good, she should be sentenced to death...

Like all other cell phone users.

Oh, and let's kill smokers while we are at it too.


:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[sniffa]

13. stone her!

[benddem]

2. the cop was a little rough

but I have no sympathy for idiots who think they need to talk loud enough on their cell phone for the person (where ever they might be) to hear them. Scourge on them!!!!

[kestrel91316]

4. DITTO

[ixion]

19. if they start arresting people for simply being annoying

they're going to have to lock up 90% of the worlds population. :wow: :evilgrin:

[JSJ]

3. agreed- it was a gestapo action

Local cops are emboldened by the new nazism at the top.

[shraby]

5. Loud talking or no loud talking, that was

no way to treat a pregnant woman!!!!!!!!!!

If he had caused a miscarriage, would he have been charged with murder? Maybe he had better reign in his uglier side.

[WindRavenX]

9. for real

Improper cell phone etiquette is one of my biggest pet peeves, but manhandling a pregnant woman? :wtf:
Jesus christo..

[TommyO]

32. DC Metro

has a long history of police-state like actions, doesn't anybody remember the candy bar incident not too long ago?

[Coconut Buddha Ape]

6. Think of her as rude...

...but "talking loudly" should never be a criminalize offense.

I just do what I have come to do with the vast majority of the stupid or brash people I meet... ignore them. Honestly, it's cops like this that give the phrase "police state" a bad meaning.

[shanti]

7. i agree!

hey, great screen name, lmao!

[rman]

16. how can "police state" have a positive meaning? n/t

-

[koopie57]

8. I am not sure how I feel about this

He is responsible for keeping things in the area safe and so he needs to be taken seriously. It was her choice to argue with him, and she is responsible for her pregnancy. Just because she is pregnant does not allow her to blow off an officer. It sounds like he made a reasonable request and maybe he had seen things escalate over these loud mouths on the cell phones. People are tense these days. It is hard to know what happened, but I think he arrested her for her behavior towards him and not cuz of cell phone.

[Piperay]

10. I agree

she should have done what was she was asked to do. The defendent is responsible for looking out after her unborn child and she is the one who put it at risk by disregarding what the officer asked her to do.

[Speed8098]

11. "she should have done what was she was asked to do."

Bullshit.


So, you think she deserved to be thrown to the ground because she was TALKING TOO LOUD.

Some of you people make me sick. We are supposed to be the tolerant ones, but from what I see on this thread, I wonder.

Why do you care if someone talks a little loud on a cell phone, seriously, if you are standing around a platform waiting on a bus, why would you care?

Where will it end? Should you be jailed because you were popping your gum too loud.

I know, let's break out the fart police. I know I'm guilty of slipping out a quiet one in an elevator and then looking at the other faces in there with me. Maybe I need to be arrested and sentenced to life.

:kick: :nuke:

[Demit]

12. he didn't arrest her right away, for talking too loud. Read the post again

It's a "quality of life" issue. Cities are paying attention to some of these seemingly little things, and IMO rightly so. Trying to make life in the public square a little more civilized. People who talk too loud into their cell phones are all me, me, me. Too bad a public official has to remind them of their manners.

Sounds like she turned her rudeness onto the transit official. The story doesn't detail everything that happened, but it sounds like the woman escalated it in that "you can't tell me what to do" way that all self-centered people have.

Five months pregnant, she probably was barely showing. So that was on her.

Charming admission, btw, in your elevator story.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

15. I agree with Speed8098 and do not feel that rudeness should be

the sort of offence that lands a person in jail. Even if it's only for two hours.

This new underlying feeling of throwing people in jail for minor infrarctions is ludicrous. We already have the highest per capita number of people behind bars of any industrialised nation in the world. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

What's next, people being thrown in jail because bumper stickers for a person running against an incumbant because they are unpatriotic?

[MUSTANG_2004]

33. Police shouldn't use force to enforce politeness

People are perfectly capable of ignoring rude loudmouths. I neither need nor want the police to arrest people just because you or I may find them slightly annoying.

Escalating it was stupid on her part, but I can understand why she responded that way when the policeman was clearly out of bounds.

[tlcandie]

35. Force used to impose politeness

reminds me of war/bombs used to bring peace.... odd! Very odd.. :think:

[sniffa]

14. agreed!

if she was going to be arrested and charged w/ resisting arrest, she shouLd head butted him too.

[Piperay]

43. Yeah and she probably

would have ended up shot! x(

[Piperay]

42. It's a question of obeying

a police officer's order, right or wrong going against the police is going to get you nothing but trouble. I'm not about to debate whether what she was doing was right or wrong but disobeying the cop is the issue.

[rman]

18. how does talking loudly compromise safety?

"but I think he arrested her for her behavior towards him and not cuz of cell phone."

you may think so, but the officer doesn't:
"She was charged with two misdemeanors: "disorderly manner that disturbed the public peace" and resisting arrest."

[sweetheart]

17. Police state gone bad

Similar happened to me once, for saying "fuck you" out doors to
another person who was threatening me. A police officer arrested
me and threw my drivers license in to some bushes to screw me over.
I spent several hours in jail, and was cleared in a courtroom the
next day when a judge pronounced that it was legal to speak freely
in the state of new york.

To add insult to injury, that asshole cop had his salary paid by
working taxpayers like the person he harassed... and christ, "fuck
you" is like "good morning" in new york... it was, IMO, arbitrary
imprisonment, and typical of a police state gone south.

JSJ is right, its all a reflection of the new nazi reich and its
bully makes right ways.

[ixion]

20. okay, then I guess we should arrest loud families in restaurants

I find those groups of people highly annoying. Guess next time I'll call for a cop instead of putting up with it. :crazy:

[QC]

21. Sounds good to me.

Cell phones came straight from the pits of hell, and cell phone idiots are one of the worst curses on American society right now. From people walking around in public screeching into their phones to people careening down narrow streets at high speeds while yakking on the phone, expecting everyone else to get out of their way, I hate the whole lot of them.

[ret5hd]

22. i cant believe some of the responses here...

i hate cell phones also.

i hate loud obnoxious people.

but you know what i hate more?

someone who thinks it is ok for a cop to arrest someone for talking too loud.

jesus christ, we are willing to become what we detest just because someone annoys us.

[Robb]

24. There are (usually) two ways a cop encounter goes

Even the greatest cops in the world don't like being talked back to. They're in a position of authority, and their lives depend on it. Cop tells you to do something, you do it, period. And discuss once you're out of the encounter situtation.

It may not be right, but it's the nature of the beast. I'm reminded of the three things a wingman is allowed to say:

"Roger that."
"Can you repeat?"
"Lead, you're on fire."

99.9% of cops, you treat them with that deference, you're going to be OK. Two people fighting in the street, the one that says "sir" the most to the cop is the one that doesn't go to jail. IMO.

[ret5hd]

25. disperse from this illegal assembly...

turn in all unapproved reading material...

make no move until you are ordered...

some may willingly go along with any order a uniform may give them, and i generally do also.

but for those of us here far from the "encountert situation", to state that it is GOOD that she got arrested...man oh man. gotta hand it to some here. can't wait till a uniform starts asking them questions about their neighbors.

edit:typo

[rman]

28. so, we have to comply with what a cop says,

no matter what? even though we are not wingmen?

"you're talking to loud"

what's next?
"don't look at me cross-eyed like that"

[Robb]

38. Yep.

In the moment, always comply with police. If you don't, there is little recourse for you legally, later.

Police have legal protections available to them if you interfere in any way with what are presumed to be lawful police activities. Afterwards you can go after them through the system, but getting in their face in the moment is just foolish. It's like arguing with anyone else with a gun and lots of friends behind them, except worse, because of that presumption they get.

Some will summarize my response to "Robb said what the cop did was OK", which of course I didn't. But look for it anyhow. :eyes:

[orthogonal]

31. Jawohl, Herr Watchmeister!

Even the greatest cops in the world don't like being talked back to.

Even the worst cop is supposed to obey the law -- and the paramount law of the land is the US Constitution, including the 1st Amendment.

99.9% of cops, you treat them with that deference, you're going to be OK.

99.9% of gang bangers and bullies and Brown Shirts, you treat them with deference, you're going to be OK.

Because in the New America, taxpayers and citizens have fewer rights than "civil servants".

[Character Assassin]

37. What a stupid thing to say

99.9% of gang bangers and bullies and Brown Shirts, you treat them with deference, you're going to be OK.

I see you're neither familar with gang bangers nor cops.

[impe]

26. Well put!

That about sums it up for me. Except for those occupations that depend on this type of communication,
the rest of the lot should have to wear the cone of silence when talking on cell phones.

Really, these metro police have little respect as it is, I can't imagine the grief and/or idiots they have to
put up with on a daily basis.

Wasn't there just an article in the Washington Post about urban sprawl and its effects on health! I cringe every time
I'm on Metro or the MARC train and someone gets out their yak phone.

[impe]

27. But

if it's a choice between

a. Ladies who paint their finger nails
b. people who clips their nails
c. nose pickers

the cell phone users win every time.

[ret5hd]

29. so all of those should be arrrested...

according to you?

[Almost_there]

23. Heard more on the news this morning...

I heard on the radio this morning, although I don't have a link yet, that she wasn't arrested for talking to loudly but, she was asked to stop with the shouted profanity. She had been asked by others in the subway station, THEN the cops, and then she refused. If this is true (which, since I don't have any links is heresay by ABC News Radio), then I do think the police had every right to ask her to stop, and if she refused to stop with loud profanity, well, she could well be arrested. Its one of those "your right to extend your arm ends at my nose" sort of things. Talking loud, sure, that's acceptable, but, using profanity in a public place and being asked repeatedly to stop and refusing, that is infringing on other's rights to peace.

~Almost

[Romulus]

30. right result, wrong action

I think the Metro LEO was right to cite her for cursing in public and being loudly disrespectful (i.e., disorderly conduct). There was no reason for the woman to haul off and be rude to the guy when all he did was ask her to pipe down. Other people had asked her for the same, so there was obviously a problem.

Since she mouthed off to him after his simple request, I think it was reasonable for the police guy to believe she may have been emotionally disturbed or something. If she was emotionally disturbed and being obnoxious, it would be the LEO's duty to corral her for evaluation.

What I don't agree with is how he went about arresting her; slamming a pregnant woman face-down on the ground and then kneeling on her midsection is clearly unreasonable. I hope she sues him for that one. She is clearly pregnant:

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I55635-2004Sep27

[progressivebydesign]

34. Being 5 months pregnant doesn't make you a nice person automatically..

I think sometimes that hearing that a woman is pregnant, or that a person is in some way ill, or something automatically makes people assume she was right. Sometimes pregnant people and non-pregnant people are assholes, and are belligerent. You know what?? If I was at a transit center and a cop said to me that I was talking too loudly on the phone, I'd be embarrassed and I'd apologize and end my call... Would any of you REALLY retort to the guy that he 'can't tell me how to talk on my phone' and start an argument? She sounds quite young, and extremely rude. While she may have not merited a fall to the ground, we have no idea what type of battle ensued before that point... she was belligerent, you can tell by her first response.

Anyone out there have a history of responding to police officers like that? How successful is it? She was rude and wrong and we have no idea how it escalated.. we weren't there.

[Book Lover]

41. I have a question for you

At what point would you *not* obey a cop's request? Talking too loudly is not a crime. A cop cannot tell you under color of authority to stop doing something that is not a crime. Yes, I would tell the cop that he can't tell me how loudly I may speak.

Another thing that may have escaped those who haven't been reading these stories in the WP for the past year or so - the DC Metro cops have been pulling this out of line bull for some time now. I am sure the story of the young girl who was arrested over eating a French fry on the Metro made it into LBR here: this is part of a pattern of abuse of authority.

[ReadTomPaine]

36. The folks who have problems with cell phones tend to overreact.

Compared to loud sub-woofer modified cars, jerks in sports jerseys bleating out which color ‘dominated’ last night’s game, people who wear their pants around their knees as a fashion statement and so forth, people gabbing on cell phones are a minor annoyance in the grand scheme of things.

However, those who seem to dislike them suffer from a form of ‘road rage’ like distemper that distorts all attempts at reason regarding discussing this. Cell phones are among the most useful devices of our lifetimes and have arguably saved more lives and prevented more crime than seatbelts and handguns combined. I’d say that’s well worth the occasional jerk talking loudly, but it will never make a dent with some – even when an example such as this pops up. It’s one of those weird hot buttons that override ideology.

Perhaps this is related to a quirk I occasionally noticed while growing up. Some people would absolutely go nuts when they received a phone call during dinnertime, but they wouldn’t turn off the phone, just yell at the person calling them. We bald apes are pretty fascinating.

RTP

[Demit]

39. Let me guess. You talk loudly into your cell phone in public and call

people at dinnertime.

Count me among those quirky people who were taught to have consideration for others.

[ReadTomPaine]

40. I don't do either...

... but neither do they cause me to wish someone be beaten by police.

RTP