New York Times sues Ashcroft over phone records in leak inquiry

[Khephra]

NEW YORK -- The New York Times sued Attorney General John Ashcroft on Tuesday, seeking on First Amendment grounds to block the Department of Justice from obtaining records of telephone calls between two veteran journalists and their confidential sources.

The lawsuit said the justice department was "on the verge" of getting records as part of a "leak" probe aimed at learning the identity of government employees who may have provided information to the newspaper. It asked a judge to intervene.

It said the government intends to get the records, which reflect confidential communications between journalists Philip Shenon and Judith Miller and their sources, from third parties unlikely to be interested in challenging its authority.

The lawsuit said the justice department has advised the Times that it plans to obtain records of all telephone calls by Shenon and Miller for 20 days in the months immediately following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--nytimeslawsuit0928sep28,0,1772087.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[Zorra]

Good luck. Ashcroft is a bad cop. The Chief of Corruption.

Ashcroft is a fascist that has the unchallenged power to do whatever he wants, and the Law be damned.

[Radius]

2. Post 0?(nt)

[Zorra]

5. Yuh. Huh?

That's a first for me, no pun intended.

[Bandit]

22. Although I agree with your assessment of Ashcroft in this case

I think the Justice Dept is in the right. I think it is imperative to find out who is leaking Top Secret Information and placing the lives of our CIA undercover officials at risk. If they were true Patriots they would give the information willingly. These are the type of sources that breed treason.

[Radius]

1. To be fair

leaking classified or secret documents is a felony, a really big felony. People in the military and intelligence community are aware of the consequences of disclosing classified documents. Usually federal prison, huge fines, and firing. Publishing them is questionable, at best, depending on content. Even if they are published that does not negate the crime of disclosing them.

When dealing with people leaking secret information a response by the government should be no surprise.

Makes for good politics though.

[Disturbed]

3. Asscrack and Justice?

No!

Hasn't he been charged with criminal acts?

[Radius]

6. Ashcroft is not the Law.

It is illegal to divulge classified documents to the media. Even the NY Times. The Times is not the issue.

If I am a federal employee or work for a contractor and have security clearance and abuse it, I have committed a crime.

Depending on what was disclosed will determine if I get fined and fired or go to prison for natural life.

[wryter2000]

7. Okay

Then, he must be subpenaing Novak's phone records to find out who outted Valerie Plame, right?

[Radius]

12. Hopefully

Screwing around with the CIA is also illegal. Publishing the name of a CIA agent may be legal but is, again, a questionable act.

[UpInArms]

4. I wonder if this has more to do with the spy in the Pentagon

than with the Plame case.

The dates in question seem suspicious.

The lawsuit said the justice department has advised the Times that it plans to obtain records of all telephone calls by Shenon and Miller for 20 days in the months immediately following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

on edit:

The lawsuit said Miller's phone records were being sought in connection with an investigation into an alleged leak from a government employee to Miller in late September and early October 2001. It said the alleged leak concerned a government decision to freeze the assets of the Global Relief Foundation and a Dallas-based Islamic charity, the Holy Land Foundation, which has been accused of aiding Hamas.

doesn't this have something to do with Grover Norquist?

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Holy+Land+Foundation%22+grover+norquist&sourceid=opera&num=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. I wonder if this has more to do with the spy in the Pentagon

Imagine this.... (let your imagination run wild) a spy in the Pentagon... the military running war games involving commercial airliners on 911, phantom radar blips inserted into radar system, (see excerpts from Crossing the Rubicon) and Al Qaida just happens to launch their attack on the same day as the war gaming.... makes one wonder... makes me wonder... who know for sure? Now wouldn't that just be something if there was a leak that helped the hijackers pick a day on which things were already confusing due to wargaming in the northeast corridor?

[KoKo]

18. It was about the "tip off" so that Islamic Institute had warning of

the raid.

Thanks for the links "UIA"...I remember reading about this way back and thinking Norquist and Frank Gaffney were going to "go down." Then, as usual nothing happened. Would think Asscroft would be going on a limb just to protect these folks...:shrug: but maybe there's just to much evidence going back to Chalabi and Miller to ignore..

Here's the snip for those on this thead who are interested:

http://www.citizensoldier.org/norquist.html
Norquist's relationship with Muslim groups that support terrorism became public after Norquist launched an unexpected and inexplicably vitriolic attack against Frank Gaffney, the President of the Center for Security Policy.

During a routine Conservative Political Action Conference meeting in early February, Gaffney participated in a panel discussion about the balance to be struck in time of war between preserving civil liberties and safeguarding American's lives and safety. Gafney expressed concern about one of the most insidious of the Wahhabis' activities, a concerted attempt to penetrate and influence the Executive and Legislative branch of our government.

Gafney noted that groups like the American Muslim Council (AMC) and the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) have been able to gain access to the White House thanks to the White House's Associate Director of Cabinet Affairs Ali Tulbah, a Muslim, and his predecessor, Suhail Kahn. At the same time, Tulbah and Kahn have excluded moderate American Muslim groups from White House access. Both Tulbah and Kahn have family ties to extremist Wahhabi religious groups. AMC and CAIR have expressed support for Hamas, Hezbollah, and Al Qaeda and are actively campaigning to waterdown immigration controls, law enforcement, and intelligence gathering.

Gaffney's concerns are legitimate, because granting access to Muslim extremists gives them a chance to exercise undue influence over policy - undermining the war on terrorism - and confers a legitimacy that allows them to dominate the U.S. Islamic community.

http://www.citizensoldier.org/norquist.html

[Just Me]

8. Since 'croft has proven himself a right-wing "ho", I doubt "justice" is,..

,...involved. After all, he is in league with the "Masters of the Universe",...in direct communication with God (who apparently advises them about all the wiley and covert means of keeping their greedy power over the people).

In other words,...this is most likely a CYA (cover your ass) operation.

[peacetalksforall]

9. So what's the story with B. Gertz getting 'supposedly secret' information

from the DOD and breaking it in 'his' Washington Times newspaper or spouting off in all his boring appearances on right wing TV? He's often the only person saying what he is saying? Often leaning towards Asia and Asians or U.S. citizens of Asian descent.

[peacetalksforall]

10. So if it is law that a govt employee can't divulge secret data...

but some employee(s) have divulged secret data...
is there a difference between protecting sources
1 if no secret material has been revealed
2 if secret material has been revealed?

Whatever the answer, I hope Ashcroft is 'contained' if he is just throwing the law around. We did not make him lard and master.

[lovuian]

11. I thought we were hunting terrorists Not US Govt Workers

Aschcroft is becoming the Gestapo

[Radius]

14. Anyone who has security clearance at any level

knows what they are getting into. It is not left in the dark for you to interpret.

You are told if you disclose information you will be prosecuted criminally in federal court, fined huge sums if convicted, and fired either way. Having clearance revoked will show up on any background check and prevent you from being hired in many jobs.

This has been standard practice for a very long time. Hopefully the person(s) is the source of the information, not the paper.

[KoKo]

13. hmmm is this the connection between Plamegate and Spygate? Snip:

U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, a Chicago special prosecutor appointed to investigate government leaks, asked the Times in August 2002 and again in July to produce Shenon and Miller for interviews and to produce records of their calls, the lawsuit said.

He threatened that if the Times did not cooperate, he would obtain telephone records from third parties, the suit said. In a letter dated Friday, Deputy Attorney General James Comey said the justice department had decided it was "now obliged to proceed" to obtain the records, the lawsuit said.

According to the lawsuit, the government told the Times it wanted phone records from Shenon for a probe into a leak by a government employee about a planned raid on the offices of the Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity group accused of funding terrorist operations.

[Radius]

16. Disclosing actionable intelligence

Not politically embarrassing information are quite different. That is the kind of thing that gets you locked up.

[Supersedeas]

23. both could get you locked up (more than embarrassing info IMHO)

Grand Jury proceedings are not just for show.

[KoKo]

17. I'm Clueless here....who are the "third parties unlikely to be interested

in challenging it's authority? The phone company I would assume would be the "third party" but why not just say so in the article? What am I missing, here? :shrug:

And, why shouldn't the government subpeona records from the known parties which their investigation has revealed and just bypass the reporters? If it's a criminal investigation and the names are already known it doesn't seem the reporters would be "revealing" sources because the other sources who gave info to the reporters are "already known." :shrug:

[Radius]

19. Right

Like if I fax you classified docs from kinkos, they don't want to fight the government request for information.

Times may be getting close to advocacy by trying to interfere with third party subpoenas.

[TacticalPeek]

20. Kick.

:kick:

[KoKo]

21. Kick.. something significant here, but what?

:kick: