Army Blackhawk Helicopter Shot Down

[maddezmom]

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - A U.S. helicopter was shot down Friday north of Baghdad, and its three crew members were wounded, the U.S military said.



The UH-60 Black Hawk was hit by anti-aircraft fire in Taji, 12 miles north of the capital, the military said.


Three of the four crew members were injured in the attack, but are expected to recover, the U.S. military said. The crew was rescued and the helicopter was recovered.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041112/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_helicopter_down&cid=540&ncid=1480

[htuttle]

1. Anti Aircraft fire?

You can hardly hide an AA gun under your coat!

Did the US leave a bunch of AA guns and artillery pieces just laying about?

[liberDave]

3. RPG at

close range is all it takes. Bless our troops.

[htuttle]

4. They usually say that if it's the case

If they get hit with AK47's, they call it "small arms fire". If RPGs, they've said, "RPG fire".

I haven't heard the phrase 'anti-aircraft fire' since the initial invasion. To me, it implies an anti-aircraft gun.

:shrug:

[liberDave]

5. Didn't see the report....

Could be AA. Easy to have pre-placed in buildings or on top.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. One lucky bullet of any caliber will do. eom

[blackhorse]

18. What became of the equipment?

I found it odd how the Republican Guard simply melted away in front of Baghdad during the invasion phase of the war.

The U.S. then promptly rolled into Baghdad. Okay -- the RG personnel going home, I can believe and understand. But the RG was a heavy mechanized force. What became of, as you mention, the AA guns, the BMPs, other tracked vehicles, mortars, artillery, tanks, and the rest of the gear the Guards had? It seemed odd how no mention (that I'm aware of) was made of this as the U.S. went into the city. One would think it would have merited some mention that hundreds of tanks, etc., were captured after having been abandoned by the vaunted Republican Guard. Heck, just the Soviet 12.7mm and 14.5mm AAMGs would be a terrible menace to low flying helicopters.

Cheers

[dbt]

2. It's Clinton's fault!

Just wanted to be the first...

:evilgrin:
dbt

[nostamj]

6. and this makes THREE in two days?

right?

are they just going to RUN OUT of choppers and humvess at some point?

[billyoc]

10. Sooner than Iraq will run out of desparate people. n/t

[maddezmom]

11. here's another:

The Army Air Corps Lynx helicopter was raked with small arms fire as it flew on a routine patrol from the Black Watch base, Camp Dogwood, to Baghdad.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1353535,00.html

[Alpharetta]

7. Who cares how many AntiAircraft rockets they've got

IT doesn't matter that we let explosives and weapons fall into hands of Iraqi resistance in our rush to guard the oil ministry.

Bush has Saddam's pistol and that's what's important, right?

[bushisanidiot]

22. What's also important is that AWoL did Bin Laden's bidding by invading

Iraq. so it was win/win all the way around for the bin laden and bush family oil profits.

[Danocrat]

8. Gee

I guess they forgot to cut the "insurgent's" Syrian and Iranian supply lines.

[billyoc]

9. Oh, I think we just found those missing Stinger missiles... n/t

[Moderator]

12. WARNING

Just a note from the moderator. If anyone even hints at wishing the troops ill, or saying that they get what they deserve, or anything along those lines, your post will be deleted.

Please discuss this topic in a thoughtful manner.

Thank you.

[PBX9501]

13. Thanks

This is long overdue.

[Zynx]

14. Ditto

I'm sick of the attitude that just because the insurgents hate the US occupation that they are "good guys." A lot of them are either ex-Baathist thugs or Islamist extremists.

Our troops didn't get to choose to go to Iraq. Now, as far as mercenaries go, I have considerably less sympathy for them.

[amber dog democrat]

17. This still reminds me of Vietnam.

The ones we need to hold accoutable are the leaders and those who determine policy.
I wonder if MacNamarra ought not to have been stood up against a wall - and there is plenty of accountability to direct towards the Chimp and his Junta. They have caused lots of unnecessry deaths.

As Erasmus said, " those who are fond of war have no experience of it "

What I want to know is how do we shut this thing down - and yes helicopters are very very vulnerable to groundfire. Just take out hydraulic or oil lubrication lines with ground fire and see how long they can stay airborne.

[daleo]

21. Unless the votes were rigged (possible), the leaders were held accountable

And the voters said "Good job, kill more godless heathen Arabs".

[amber dog democrat]

33. Its a hell of a mess

too bad the Iraqis are sitting on top of so much oil.
If they were not, we'd find other gathering menaces to confront.
I'm sure of it.

[Dhalgren]

19. I doesn't mean that I cannot support the freedom fighters in Iraq.

It only means that I have to be politically correct when talking about Bush's legions. Bush's army is doing its job and Bush is well pleased - he said so himself. This is just a clarification - as I see it...

[Zynx]

37. Rooting for people to kill American soldiers is wrong. End of discussion.

Most of the soldiers in the military are too poor to have a more legitimate job choice, or are brainwashed by propaganda. They're not much more than Sheeple with guns.

Wanting the troops brought home is fine. Wanting them killed off is not.

[mike_c]

40. well, the same was true of most of Hitler's troops...

...and the guys dumping Zyklon B into the "showers" were just following orders, too.

Over and over, we have affirmed that no set of personal motives or national agendas excuses the commission of war crimes.

I have been among the most consistent DU critics of U.S. military behavior in Iraq, but NOWHERE have I seen anyone calling for the death of U.S. forces. Quite the opposite-- most critics call for stopping the slaughter of Iraqis, while recognizing that if the U.S. continues to engage in that bloodbath, then the Iraqis are entitled to resist by whatever means necessary. None of us wants anyone killed. However, my position has always been that the Iraqis are the real victims, not the U.S. troops who invaded them.

[daleo]

25. Most of the Iraqi resistance didn't choose to go to Iraq either

They were born there.

[bvar22]

32. Do you have a source for your claim...

"A lot of them are either ex-Baathist thugs or Islamist extremists."

I've heard that undocumented claim from sources that have proved to be NOT credible. (bush*, Cheney, Bremer, Condo, Rummy, et al.)
This group has been proved wrong so many times that I no longer trust their disinformation.

Could it be that most of the insurgents are merely Iraqis that are pissed at being bombed, invaded and occupied?

[Zynx]

35. I didn't say all of them are bad guys

But we shouldn't want people like al-Sadr and the al-Qaeda wannabe Sunni groups to take over Iraq just because we don't like what Bush did. That's not exactly very nice for the Iraqis.

[DrWeird]

36. No. We should assume our troops are the good guys.

Not a single one of them are Republican thugs or white supremacists. So stop saying that.

[saigon68]

23. I guess we will now ALL have to put up with flag waving

From the troop supporters who can't distinguish between the idea that they are dying for an immoral war---- to--- THEY DIED FOR OUR FREEDOM OR THEY ARE dying to make ameriKa safe?

Dream on sport

[jmcgowanjm]

20. Just so we have this cleared up

"Throughout the history of mankind there have been
murderers and tyrants; and while it may seem momentarily
that they have the upper hand, they have always
fallen." (Mahatma Gandhi)

The United States has discarded pretensions to
international legality and decency, and embarked on a course
of raw imperialism run amok."
(William Rockler, Nuremberg Tribunal prosecutor)

This war is criminal. It violates the Nuremberg Charter,
the US constitution and the UN charter. 

Lawrence Mosqueda in an article published in March
2003, shortly before the onslaught of the US-led invasion of
Iraq provided the following advisory: 

US troops  have "A Duty To Disobey all Unlawful orders".

The Commander in Chief is a war criminal. According to Principle 6 of the Nuremberg Charter:

"The fact that a person   acted pursuant
to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve
him from responsibility under international law, provided a
moral choice was in fact possible to
him."

The above mentioned war criminal is using USsoldiers
to further the hegemony of the US.

If we allow this election2004 to stand then this war criminal
will feel he can move forward w/ his PNAC plans.

You make your stand now, or you make it later.

but make no mistake these fascists will not stop
themselves.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOS303A.html

[jmcgowanjm]

24. BTW- on the "what can be done?" question

"What can be done?"

My answer is first, stop giving any credence or energy to
the thoroughly deceitful American electoral
process.

Notice how Nader in supporting the Ohio recount is
starting to look.

And notice how Kerry and the DNC are AWOL.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BAK411B.html

[saigon68]

26. You are asking the Freepers to start flame wars here

These turkeys are going to show up in droves now and call anyone who doesn't "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" (their definition of whatever the fuck that is) Kommunists, etc.

[sattahipdeep]

28. "We call on all organizations and the whole world to help us.

"The US forces have asked us through loudspeakers to get out
of the houses and raise white flags. But all the city's areas
are under fierce bombings.

"We don't know what to do, stay in our place which is under
bombardment or get out and get shot," Ali said.

....
"I'm supposed to shoot into the houses before our troops go in."
Corporal Will Porter said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/49216922-DF38-4666-98A9-9F87DC75111F.htm

[mike_c]

29. while not wishing harm to anyone, I will NOT support the murder...

...of Iraqi civilians by U.S. or other coalition forces. No one is "getting what they deserve" in Iraq, but my sympathies are with the people who were illegally invaded and who are fighting to end a brutal foreign occupation-- NOT with the troops responsible. The fact that most of those troops wear U.S. uniforms does not absolve them of responsibility for their actions, IMO.

[RetroLounge]

30. Thanks for this.

Unfortunately, it's the Civilian leaders who never get what they deserve.

RL

[drdtroit]

38. THANK YOU! n/t

[sattahipdeep]

16. Dire humanitarian situation

"It's extremely dangerous right now because the insurgents have
nowhere to go, they are just sitting in houses waiting for us to
come in," US marine Corporal Will Porter said.

"I'm supposed to shoot into the houses before our troops go in."
US marine Corporal Will Porter said. :puke:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/49216922-DF38-4666-98A9-9F87DC75111F.htm

[maddezmom]

27. Rebels take fight to Mosul, violence grips Iraq as Black Hawk downed

MOSUL, Iraq (AFP) - A top police officer and two guards were killed in Mosul as US troops battled to restore order in Iraq (news - web sites)'s third city, where gunmen roamed the streets in response to a US-led assault on Fallujah.



Deadly violence also flared in other predominantly Sunni Arab areas, following the major offensive of the rebel Sunni stronghold of Fallujah, which started on Monday and rumbled on into Friday night.


In snapshots of the unrest, three crew were injured when a Black Hawk helicopter was shot down, at least five Iraqis were killed in clashes in Hawijah, a US soldier was shot dead in Baghdad and a local leader was ambushed in the restive province of Al-Anbar, home to battle-torn Fallujah.


Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has pledged to restore order in Iraq in time for elections promised by end-January and portrays the battle for Fallujah, a hub of rebel activity, as key to achieving this goal.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1515&ncid=1515&e=2&u=/afp/20041112/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_unrest_041112181942

[sattahipdeep]

31. Mukhabarat

Having stopped the torture, the Oregon soldiers asked for further orders:
What should they do now? The request was relayed far up through the
chain of command, and the answer came back from on high: Go away --
and give the prisoners back to the men who were torturing them. Give
back the weapons, give back the torture tools, stop helping the
prisoners, mind your own business.

And that was it. The American troops, outraged but obedient, withdrew.
The prisoners -- the wounded men, the bleeding children -- were bound
up again and shoved back into the stinking pits. Why? It’s simple.
Because the Iraqi security goons were doing exactly what George W.
Bush wanted them to do.

And for that, he needs terrorists, torturers, ruthless goons -- not a bunch
of Oregon boy scouts gumming up the works with acts of mercy.
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/08/13/120.html

Allawi shot inmates in cold blood

Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a
pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents
at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington
handed control of the country to his interim government,
according to two people who allege they witnessed the killings.

They say the prisoners - handcuffed and blindfolded - were
lined up against a wall in a courtyard adjacent to the
maximum-security cell block in which they were held at
the Al-Amariyah security centre, in the city's south-western suburbs.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/16/1089694568757.html?oneclick=true

[Gyre]

34. That's a damn shame.

Gyre

[catmandu57]

39. We are hemorrhaging blood and treasure

and it's all illegal. Every round that's fired off that takes a life American or Iraqi, Every person wounded American or Iraqi, is being violated illegally.
We went through a litany of reasons to invade Iraq, everyone of them has since proven to be false. This "war" is so wasteful and so wrong.

[cliss]

41. True.

We've spent over $270 billion so far and laid 1,300 (?) lives to waste. And for what? Are we any nearer our goal? Is Iraq safer now and is the oil flowing like they wanted?

Or are they "bleeding us into bankruptcy" like Usama bin Laden said 2 weeks ago.