BREAKING: Democracy Now: Kerry now believes 2004 election stolen!

[HamdenRice]

Amy Goodman of Democracy Now just finished interviewing Mark Crispin Miller, who has written a book arguing that the 2004 election was stolen, and a reporter from Mother Jones, who argues that it wasn't.

In the interview, Miller reported that at a recent fundraiser, he spoke to Kerry and Kerry now believes the 2004 election was stolen.

According to Miller, Senate democrats are now debating whether to come out with their belief that the 2004 election was stolen!

Democracy Now transcripts are usually available by the early afternoon.

[ananda]

1. Let's hear it from that usedup horse himself..

This is just hearsay.

I wanna hear Kerry himself say it.

Sue

[HamdenRice]

4. What? All reporting is hearsay ... this isn't a court of law...

Every time you read in a newspaper, "Secretary Rice said today..." that's hearsay, legally.

By reporting standards it is perfectly credible

[mzmolly]

12. Kerry has said it in so many words.

But he'll probably not run through the streets shouting or anything.

"used up old horse?"

[ananda]

17. OK, but you can't blame me for..

.. not thinking too highly of Kerry. Also, what good does it do to say he believes the election was stolen now? We've known this for nearly a year.

I'll start respecting Kerry again if and only if substantial legislation is passed to make elections free and fair.

Can you get behind that?

I'm a diehard liberal, and I voted for Kerry... but I did it holding my nose.

I would have preferred Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich.

Sue

[Sparkman]

21. Repubs wood blaim the ills of the country on Dems' disrupt'n after 2000.

Now it's all on the Repubs, giving us a chance to reclaim a bipartisian government once again.

[jobycom]

27. I can't get behind that, that's blaming the victim for being a victim

Kerry has no way to pass legislation without a Democratic congress. He had no way to fight a stolen election without proof. I'm a diehard liberal who voted for Kerry, too, and I did it in the primaries and I partied when he won. How the Hell the Republicans succeeded in their plans to make Kerry too liberal for the moderates and too conservative for the Democrats I'll never get. He's been one of the most liberal senators his whole career.

Dean had a less liberal record than Kerry in office, and Kucinich is a lightweight. And I'm one of the ones who started the "Kucinich for President" sig lines around here after his Prayer for America, before most people even knew who he was. But in the primaries, I didn't support him or Dean. I didn't trust either one to run a good campaign, and nothing I've seen since convinces me I was wrong. If the election was stolen from Kerry, it only further proves Kerry had what it took.

Blame Bush. We need that printed on a bumper sticker. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Blame Bush. Repeat until it becomes the mantra of ALL Americans.

[_dynamicdems]

39. Thank you for your kind words for Senator Kerry.

It tears my heart out to hear Dems and liberals criticize the Senator. Without the inspiration I've taken from his example, I probably wouldn't have made it through these past twelve months of hell. Every day I read about the Senator's noble efforts on our behalf: the statements he's made in Congress, the Democratic candidates he's helping, the causes he's still championing and the stands he's taking (often before anyone else does) and I'm ashamed of the coward inside me. If Senator Kerry fights on for us, the least I can do is fight for myself. A true hero is a person who inspires others to be their own heroes.

I listen to his words, then I pick myself up and keep on fighting. One step at a time. One cause at a time. One protest at a time. Tomorrow morning I'm going to a rally for a local candidate in my state that Senator Kerry is helping. The Republicans are gunning for this guy and the ammunition they are using is money. Senator Kerry has been right there for all the people who helped him in '04. He still has our mayor's back. But he's also helped Democrats who did not support him last year. He's fighting for what is right, not for himself personally.

There wasn't anything Senator Kerry could have done last year but concede the election as he did. He could have fought, but in the end, the fix was in and the efforts would have ultimately hurt all of us. John Kerry has been championing voting reform and has made several strong statements about election fraud long before this book came out, so this is no revelation to me.

Senator Kerry does a lot of work under the radar. He's methodical and patient. And he never, ever gives up. He's working behind the scenes, you can be assured, for justice. And I'm prouder than ever that I voted for him. The best horse may not always win the race, but a true champion never quits.

There is simply no way for me to put into words how grateful I am to Senator Kerry for the inspiration he's given me.

[MissWaverly]

45. I still have my Kerry sweatshirt

You cannot blame Kerry for the stolen election, it takes a long time
for the force of truth to shine on Bush. George W. Bush is a master of deception, he reminds me of Harry Houdini, once you know how the
mechanics behind the tricks it seems so obivious. But WE did not know the mechanics behind the tricks and there is still much that WE
don't know let alone factual proof. I know what I knew a year ago,
my voting machine defaulted to Bush 5 times when I attempted to vote
for Kerry. Baltimore, Maryland is heavily democratic and the number
of George Bush votes in Maryland do not make sense, will never make sense.

[mzmolly]

29. He put fourth legislation shortly after the election.

I'd respect criticism of our elected officials more from informed people who appreciate when they do the right thing.

http://www.johnkerry.com/features/count/

http://www.johnkerry.com/features/votingrights/

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Does he have actionable proof/evidence?

[eridani]

57. A lot depends on who are considered to be the injured parties

We will never know without a fullblown investigation who won, though we certainly have probable cause for demanding such an investigation. A real problem here is the tendency for election laws to regard only candidates as potential victims with the standing to complain.

Well, goddamit! What about the voters who deserve to have their votes counted accurately, transparently and publicly? What are we, anyway, chopped liver?

[unpossibles]

3. it's a tough call

and even though I agree it was stolen in several ways, I begrudgingly think they should concentrate on fixing the problems (which they are) so as not to appear to be sore losers. On the other hand, I would like them to look into it further and be honest and up front about it.

hmm. tough call.

[jobycom]

14. Very tough call, but now is the time if there is ever a time.

I agree with you on all aspects. But if there is enough proof to sell the idea to the people, then that can be used to help fix the problems. Bush is down, the people aren't believing what he's saying anymore. Now is the perfect time to accuse him of stealing the election, because Bush's evasions and lies will be most obvious to people.

But unless there is some decent evidence, it will all backfire and destroy the careers of whomever is involved in pushing the issue.

Dammit, it should be the media pushing these questions.

[unpossibles]

37. good point

it hinge son something the public will believe: proof or at least credible sources.

[liberalnurse]

5. Tell George Bush to Return the Money to Ohio! Sign the Petition Now.

Ohio House Democratic Leader, Representative Chris Redfern, asks us to sign his Petition for President George Bush to return the laundered campaign money he got from that crook, Noe.


Dear friends,

As many of you now know, Tom Noe, the Lucas County businessman at the center of the state government scandals, was indicted earlier this week in Toledo for laundering more than $45,000 to the Bush/Cheney Campaign in 2003.

It's time to demand that George Bush return that money.

Tom Noe stole millions of dollars from the Bureau of Workers Compensation so he could help support his GOP friends. But that money belongs to this state, not the Republican Party.

Sign our petition to President Bush demanding that he immediately return the money to the BWC.

With your help, we can urge the President to do the responsible thing and stop accepting illegal campaign contributions.

So sign our petition today and encourage your friends and family to add their names to it as well!

http://demo.blueutopia.com/index.php?page=display&id=90


You can read my full statement on the Noe indictment in the press room section on our web site. And check back often for updates on these shameful scandals and what Democrats are doing to reform state government.

http://redfernforohio.com/index.php?page=pressrelease&c ...

Working together, we can demand accountability from our leaders, end the culture of corruption and return our attention to the real issues facing Ohioans.

Thank you for all that you do.



Chris Redfern

[BrklynLiberal]

6. He said that yesterday on Morning Sedition.

Mark Crispin Miler was a guest on Morning Sedition yesterday morning and spoke of his conversation with John Kerry and said that John Kerry believed the election was stolen.

He(Miller) also spoke of John Edwards' disappointment at Kerry's concession.

Kerry's "advisors" had told him that there was no way he could pull it out, it was unwinnable, and if he did not concede he would be viewed as a sore loser. (I guess his "advisors" were on the payroll of the RNC)


edited for clarification.

[jobycom]

8. Miller or Kerry?

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Miller. Sorry. edited for clarification.

[jobycom]

20. Thanks. Is Miller saying what Kerry thinks happened?

Whether it's a Diebold theory or a voter suppression issue, or padding the ballot boxes, or all of that? And is he talking about Ohio or the whole nation?

As for Kerry's concession, he had no choice, unless he had hard evidence. He wasn't running for dog catcher. Can you imagine how the insurgents in Iraq would react to a battle for control of the US? How our creditors would react? The stakes are too high. Kerry did what he had to do. Unlike Bush, he put the nation first, and tried to find proof behind the scenes. He found nothing but circumstantial evidence, and that's not going to do anything but divide the nation further.

I didn't like it, either, but I didn't see how else he could handle it.

[eridani]

58. Circumstantial evidence is otherwise known as "probable cause"

You can't fucking GET hard evidence without an investigation, which there was not time for before the inauguration. For that reason, Kerry is not any longer the injured party.

Injured parties are WE THE PEOPLE, who deserve to have our votes counted accurately, publicly and transparently. If there is a dead body in your back yard, this is by itself no proof of foul play, but it is damned well reason enough for a thorough investigation.

[Skink]

9. He might as well try now cause I ain't voting for him again.

[Sparkman]

26. A good Repub would vote for who ever gets the nod. Dems think first.

And that's the good and the bad of our party. Many diverse opinions and platforms and venues. Diversity of opinion seems to govern best, since Dems' lead in economic performance, and in doing less harm to minority citizens, and the environment that we all depend on for life and beauty. The ARTs depend on beauty, and so does our sole, and the soleless Repubs would reduce our lives to a series of business decisions.

[dalloway]

32. actual, if I'm not mistaken, I remember reading that his OH

lawyers were actual with a firm that had huge GOP connections.

Anyone else recall that? I can't find a link right now.

[TayTay]

7. I think they knew it was stolen

There have been comments from leading Dems all year. (Isn't this why there is a pending bill in the Senate to fix the problems the Feds can fix in the states when they set up for national elections.)

The problem is getting the national media to pay serious attention and not dismiss this as tinfoil hat stuff. The New York Times, the Washington Post, the LA Times and other big papers all blew this off last year as either the sour grapes of a losing party or something that drifted in from conspiracy land.

Nothing will happen unless the national media takes this up as a cause and closely watches the pre-election polls and matches thoses polss up with the final tallies. We have to have a strong press that doesn't just take Republican spin as reality. We were dead in the water last year because the media slapped down the story.

I dearly hope the Senate Dems do announce this. This is a great subject to have come out, particularly in the week that Rosa Parks was so deeply and wonderfully mourned as a pioneer in Civil Rights. But unless the medai grabs this story, it will sink again. IF the Senate Dems do push this, we have to do a massive LTTE effort to get the papers to pay attention.

BTW, Teresa Heinz Kerry said this way back in April. Didn't anyone notice. The conservative media did and published stories that called her a whack-job.

[BrklynLiberal]

13. The question remains, why didn't Kerry stand up with the Black Caucus when

he had the chance?
There were many missed opportunities for him to have made an attempt to redeem himself.

[Sparkman]

19. Iraq and the economy would be blaimed on the election disruption, now it's

all on Bush and the Republican's. now we have a chance, once again, to reclaim a bipartisian government. Thanks to John Kerry.

[TayTay]

28. No. Kerry wanted to win.

The Repubs are imploding because they can't govern. They had an agenda that was wrong from the start and is now collapsing under it's own weight of failure. (There was no way it wouldn't fail, it was almost designed to fail.)

There is no good thing that can come out of the Repubs winning in 2004. The nation would have been much better served with a Dem in the White House. But it didn't happen. We now have to deal with what is, not any suppositions about what might have been. (Too bad, so sad, move on.)

[Sparkman]

33. the REASONs for Repub's failures are now undeniable. They can't claim

that Kerry made a huge derailment of the county's focus or resources or scandal, over the sour grapes of his lost election.
BLAIM game is denied the Repubs in 2006/2008...and that's a HUGE advantage tha Kerry paid for in his wise choice last year. imo

[second edition]

36. Good observations! n/t

[TayTay]

40. Well, it was inevitable.

After the national media declared the election a success last year, the case to prove election fraud became a legalistic case. I hope it turns into a moral case and sparks a movement to ensure that we have fair and equitable elections that are open to all citizens.

I understand the sentiment that says that Dems winning would have prevented the Repub implosion. There is some truth to that. But I look at the victims of Katrina and I really wish there had been a different President. (As I'm sure you do. This is not a moral superiority trap. All Dems wish this.) The recent bills passed in Congress to punish the poor could have been vetoed. Sigh!

[MissWaverly]

47. The senate nod to plunder Alaska also galls me

At the same time they are cutting school lunches and Head Start;
remember the fat cats had 40 dress up balls for the inaugural
celebration of election fraud 2004.

[Fly by night]

41. There's a "check spelling "button at the bottom of "Post message" screen.

Your posts are looking like they're from freep-land.

[TayTay]

23. The story that went around here was that he was asked not to

The election was not going to be overturned. His presence on Jan 6 would have made it about him. (And he lost.) He lost and nothing was going to overturn that after the concession in Nov. Nothing.

The wounded parties after that was not John Kerry. (He lost.) It was the American people, and most specifically, the African American voters who were denied the right to vote. (A separate issue.) It's not about Kerry anymore, it's about the basic American right to vote.

[Sparkman]

30. We have to pressure the registrars and the politicians for accountability.

[IndyOp]

44. Why didn't Kerry stand up with the Black Caucus?

I feel this way about that:

:shrug: :eyes: :crazy:

:scared:

:wtf:


x( :( ;( :thumbsdown:

:nopity:

:mad:
:evilfrown:

:puke:

:argh:
:banghead:
:rant:
:freak:

:hurts:
:spank:

:grr:
:nuke:

:hangover:

[mirandapriestly]

46. Ha hah, I love Kerry, but I agree... nt

[ROH]

25. What did Teresa specifically say in April? (n/t)

[TayTay]

31. This is but one article:

TERESA HEINZ KERRY HASN'T LOST HER OUTSPOKEN WAY
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER, Final, Sec. News, p A2 03-07-2005
By JOEL CONNELLY P-I columnist
Excerpt:

COUNTING THE VOTES: Heinz Kerry is openly skeptical about results from November's election, particularly in sections of the country where optical scanners were used to record votes.

"Two brothers own 80 percent of the machines used in the United States," Heinz Kerry said. She identified both as "hard-right" Republicans. She argued that it is "very easy to hack into the mother machines."

"We in the United States are not a banana republic," added Heinz Kerry. She argued that Democrats should insist on "accountability and transparency" in how votes are tabulated.

"I fear for '06," she said. "I don't trust it the way it is right now."

[eridani]

59. OK, Mama T--

John doesn't get any until he does something about election transparency, capeesh?!?!

[sepia_steel]

11. Here's hoping it's true and that they will stand up about it.

:toast:

[yurbud]

15. give this recs to keep it up! Story mentioned GAO report (link)

http://www.bradblog.com/Docs/GAOReport_ElectionSecurity_102105.pdf

Conyers summary of CAO report:

http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000281.htm

[yurbud]

16. Does anyone have link to Homeland Security bulletin on Diebold?

[Sparkman]

18. That's why he'd make a good president...wise men fear to tread.

Bush had no idea how Iraq would pan out, yet he was willing to risk our treasury, our lives and his party's future. When so many told him the truth about WMD, secular Iraq's loathing for Al Qaeda, the real military operation planning flaws of his neo-con cabal, Bush showed a complete lack of analytic and humanistic insight. He never had a passport prior to 2000, and has been willing to exclude half our countrymen's will and council while pursuing his childish vision of a "war time President"!
Kerry has been in combat, has come back to tell the truth to the Vietnam promoters in a VERY controversial time of our nation, at high political risk TO HIMSELF. Willing to sacrifice his own political ambition for the good of the country when his brain trust recommended he not fight the 2000 election outcome.
Now it's clear to even the most reticent citizens that Bush was wrong, and that he's exactly as we claimed, a spoiled lord of the worst of the corporate capitalists.
And John Kerry didn't force himself into the forefront, which could have forever been cited as the cause for the Iraq failure. It's all on Bush now, thanks to John Kerry, and we can retrieve a bipartisian government once again. imo

[BlueEyedSon]

22. NEVER FORGET that what we see as negatives in the war (and the

Bush presidency) are by and large IRRELEVANT to Bushco and the Ruling Elite behind them. Look what they got:

Massive tax cuts for the rich and corporations
No-bid contracts for favored contractors
Draining the US treasury
(1-3 are a huge redistribution of wealth upward)
Political capital to win 2002 and 2004
Never-ending war & chaos
Permanent bases in Iraq (needed a new location after S Arabia)
Saddam stopped from selling oil in euros
Iraq oil contracts for France, Russia, etc., voided

[Sparkman]

34. Right. And the robber barons had their day as well. Now we have opportun

ity because the total control of the reins of power by the Repubs, with no claim to BLAIMING the fall of the Iraq Occupation (inevitable from day one-obvious to all of us here) or the economy (DJI flat since 2000) or the demoralization of the electorate (no leagalistic challange to the ruling Repubs). At least we have a chance at regaining a balance in government, agree?

[quiet.american]

24. Wonder if the GAO findings had something to do with this

Maybe now that the GAO has backed up what we've been saying all along, Sen. Kerry feels he has something solid to back him up.

[Stand and Fight]

35. I'd like to hear more on this particular issue.

I wish we could have a Q&A session with Mr. Miller today.

There's no doubt in my mind that the election was stolen, and given the situation I think many in Washington know it too.

[rman]

38. Is Kerry saying this only on non-MSM -

so that virtually nobody hears about this?
What'd be the point of that?

No matter how valuable Democracy Now and ie Majority Report are, they just don't reach a large audience, and hence have virtually no effect on what occupies the public mind.

When will this be on NBC, CNN etc?

[Fly by night]

42. "When will this be on NBC, CNN etc?"

When fascist pig-fuckers fly.

[Stand and Fight]

48. He didn't say it on Democracy Now.

Miller did... *sigh*

[IndyOp]

43. No F-'ing, F-'ing, F-'ing Way!!

:wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow: :wow:

[autorank]

49. IndyOp, you are LORD! The implications of this are beyond the pale

The implications of this are earth shattering politically.

A little reverse engineering here helps us understand why Reid chose now to launch BIG!

Miller is a fearless guy and he's hung in there.

Damn, this is the BEST POST I've seen in months.

Thank you!

Recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IndyOp]

51. It's over, Kerry shot the flying pigs -->

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x399843>

:cry:

Damn good think Miller is a fearless guy -- he's gonna need support now.

[autorank]

53. The denial means "I'm not ready yet." It's all good.

Remember, Kerry did the BCCI Senate Investigation. His mere presence in our wonderful Senate means he knows how to negotiate.

"All is not as it appears...or it is, but then only for a while."
auto von rankenstein (circa 1960)

[IndyOp]

54. I don't think it is all over -- I still have hope he will stand,

but, man, I can feel Mark's pain. It is safe to assume that Mark knew that a denial from Kerry was likely and he (Mark) decided to take a punch for us all.

:patriot:

[autorank]

56. Hey, Mark's a very tough guy just for surviving but, yeah, not a fun

one...unless he knew, in which case, it's three dimensional chess.

Damn, it's either very deep or...whatever...

[Vanje]

50. Never mind.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x399843

[occuserpens]

52. This is yet another e-mail from God or something more concrete?

<Kerry now believes 2004 election stolen!>

So what? Any concrete actions on this?

[tibbir]

55. Then what was he thinking

when he conceded before all the votes were even counted?

[J_T]

60. so much for that. he should have voted NO

from the start. I think he was the best we could have put against bush but the war vote is the one thing i didn't like