NYT's Bobo: Dem pols "detest the netroots' self-righteousness and bullying"

[Rose Siding]

In the beginning of August, liberal bloggers met at the YearlyKos convention while centrist Democrats met at the Democratic Leadership Council’s National Conversation. Almost every Democratic presidential candidate attended YearlyKos, and none visited the D.L.C.

At the time, that seemed a sign that the left was gaining the upper hand in its perpetual struggle with the center over the soul of the Democratic Party. But now it’s clear that was only cosmetic.
...
The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots’ self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don’t blow it by drifting into cuckoo land. They also know that a Democratic president is going to face challenges from Iran and elsewhere that are going to require hard-line, hawkish responses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/25/opinion/25brooks.html?ref=opinion

This "factoid" is offered by bobo sans attribution. If that's true -it probably is for many of the centrists, at least- how ironic that after last week's shamefully self-righteousness pageant that was the Senate's MoveOn res, these "many Democratic politicians" would target that very attribute as detestable.

And WHEN did advocating for a govt worthy of the consent of the governed become "bullying"? I must be missing a constitutional amendment or two.

[redqueen]

1. "cuckoo land" is the alternative to the MYTH of 'moderates'?

I hope no one is listening to this kind of undiluted bullshit any longer. It worked for too long for the triangulators... they should have learned by now.

Disaffected Republicans and moderates? How about disaffected LIBERALS?! :nuke:

[ptolle]

14. bobo brief

For those who might not otherwise have come upon it, Glenn Greenwald deconstructs the bobo:http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/25/brooks/index.html
As usual Brooks is full both of it, and of himself.My general take is that the wingnuts are just coming to realize how potent the netroots can be and how far behind they are in tapping this resource so they resort to their usual tactic of diminishing the thing. A sort of claiming to not want what you know you probably cannot have.

[Cha]

19. M O ..what you don't like..

SLAM into a million pieces. Yeah, got it.

[movonne]

2. So they detest the biggest part of the party...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

5. That'd be very, very incorrect.

DU is in no way representative of the Democratic base.

[redqueen]

15. DU is not the only netroots site.

Are you saying you think the netroots is not representative of the base?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. That's exactly what I'm saying.

Generous guess, there are a few million people working the netroots. I'll be really generous and call it 6 million people, but I think that's way, way overestimating. I think it's more like 3 million, max, but for the purposes of this post, we'll call it 6.

Meanwhile, nearly 60 million Americans voted for John Kerry. Currently, 32% of the population consider themselves to be Democrats. In the 2004 election, that meant about 40 million self-identifying Democrats voted for John Kerry.

Even being generous, netroots are only about 15% of the voting party. That's hardly the base.

On edit: This guy estimates our netroots to be about 1.5 million people. http://www.thedemocraticstrategist.org/strategist/2006/07/netroots_continued.php If you believe him, that's only 3.8% of the party.

[redqueen]

26. I'm not saying the netroots ARE the base...

but I think they are representative of the base.

Obviously you disagree.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. No, I don't agree.

I think the base IS far more moderate than the netroots. I think the same goes for the other side, although to a lesser extent. I think most of the country and our parties are both pretty moderate, and I think there's more than enough polling to support that kind of a conclusion.

[redqueen]

28. So considering how far to the right the Dem party has moved over the years...

you think most americans are still even further to the right?

:shrug:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

29. That I didn't say. It's a different question altogether.

I think the Party is about where the real base is right now, and I think they've drifted to the left recently. I think the netroots and the like-minded have actually drifted further and further to the left, especially over the course of the last year. Granted, a gridlocked Congress and a veto happy President have frustrated the base and the netroots alike, with most of that being taken out on Dem leadership, for reasons I can't explain beyond simple ignorance of the political process.

[redqueen]

30. K, thanks for explaining your thoughts.

As for myself I think the party is still moving to the right... and leaving the base (and most americans who aren't paying attention because 'it's all riggged') behind, chasing after those mythical 'moderate' votes.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. Thank you for the opportunity!

Civil discourse seems fleeting around here these days. I'm glad to have talked with you!

[redqueen]

33. Awww

:blush:

Back at ya... :hi:

[roseBudd]

38. I am not a moderate, but I am a pragmatist, my preference is winning...

then governing left. Call it stealth politiking. Keep your cards close

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

42. Amen to that.

I like the way you think!

[WilliamPitt]

41. Wow.

60% of all women.

99.9999999999999999999% of Black voters.

Unions.

Teachers.

More and more Hispanic voters.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but we're a small-ass part of the party by the numbers.

Those folks up there are the Dem base.

But we're the other base, the activists, so we're worth like ten people each. My mom won New Hampshire for Kerry. Beat that with a stick. ;)

[Justitia]

3. David Freaking Brooks? Who cares what that tool has to say about Democrats?

Not to mention, the idiot is on record admitting he makes stuff up.

I added that observation as you astutely pointed out that he offers no attribution for this dubious claim.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Have you looked around here at the language and tone being used?

I'd say what goes on at DU every day falls easily into the "bullying" category.

[Cha]

20. Yeah, right..

We The People are such bullies..bully for us.

[Rose Siding]

23. Brooks isn't talking about DU, rather all those who use the net

for information and activism. He names Kos but I suspect he intends to include any who threaten the beltway power structure.

And it's bs to point to the "tone" on DU. You can find genuine bullies in any group of people -the "moderate" Joe Lieberman (not a Democrat), for example.

[Bitwit1234]

6. AND why are they still attacking the netroots....

the republicans own the other forms of media. They have to try to shut this form of communication up.

[yurbud]

12. real debate goes on here. TV and radio is Potemkin Village

[yurbud]

13. and most newspapers just make brief visits to reality then go back to printing Karl Rove's faxes

[bemildred]

7. The feeling is mutual. nt

[Cha]

21. Yeah, I think they

are ze bullies. Example-Iraq.

[Apollo11]

8. Columnists good. Bloggers bad.

You are either with President Bush or you are with Osama Bin Laden.

Moderates are winners. Progressives are losers.

Let's have more binary thinking !!! :eyes:

:sarcasm:

[Cha]

22. More like...Regressives=good.

Progressive=BADASS.

[ShortnFiery]

36. Yes, and the only website worth mentioning on Cable News is Politico.com

:eyes: Politico.com = mouthpiece for the beltway ruling class (both parties).

[yurbud]

9. moderates=corporations who no longer trust Bushies NOT actual voters

[yurbud]

10. You advocates for this attitude here who think we should vote then shut up and let them do what they

want.

Fuck that.

Either represent us or we will replace you.

[yurbud]

11. and too many of our pols, even supposedly progressive Dems, are patronizing, dishonest...

and dismissive.

Most still aren't talking honestly about why we are in Iraq and likely to stay (the oil) instead they just serve up a variation of the neocon propaganda stew only seasoned with slightly less vitriol.

[redqueen]

16. Do you include the "top tier" canddiates in that assessment?

And if so... what does THAT say about the dem base?

[yurbud]

35. That says more about who gets favorable media coverage and the corporate blessing

[marmar]

17. We detest spinelessness and pandering....

:nopity:

[Cha]

18. Right! The netroots are advocating

The Constitution but leave it to a dlcer to build that into straw.

Those dems did give the raspberry to the netroots..maybe that's why hillary voted nay cause she didn't want to totally burn her bridge.

Yeah, I'll just bet they "detest" us..holding them accountable instead of lapping at the corporate teat..who wouldn't detest that?

[Forrest Greene]

24. "Self-Righteousness and Bullying"

That strikes me as a fair & accurate description. Anyone can deny anything, but it's a real stretch to say self-righteous bullying is not a prime feature of virtually any Internet discussion, particularly those regarding politics.

Given the success of self-righteous bullying as a Christian Fundamentalist / Republican tactic, maybe Democrats ought to get their hands a little dirty.

[Demeter]

32. I Think We Are Well Aware By Now That DC Pols Despise Their Voters

and want to shoo the netroots away entirely, after picking their pockets.

"People are such a drag on the system--they have urgent needs, and they want justice, and we just can't DO that in Washington. It's not our reason for existence! We are here to collect money and spend it on campaigns, PERIOD!"

There's no such thing as a disaffected Republican. Truly disaffected Republicans change parties and do it VERY loudly. There are no moderates left in America. There are people with their eyes opened by their own suffering, and those who got theirs and don't care about anyone else, or feel threatened if "those people" seem to be catching up to them. You pick up these people, for life, if you solve their urgent needs. It's Democratic Party 101, Populist style. But everybody wants the Corporate money, so they shun US the People.

Every phrase in this NYTimes Article is a lie.

And the reason why the candidates all went to Kos was they were looking for easy pickings. Didn't find any, either. Instead, they got marching orders, which they promptly ignored.

Talk about Dysfunctional!

[Cha]

39. Re-a-lly! Corporations have so

much more money and really only ask for the basics..allowed to pollute, steal our tax money, and bomb other countries who have our OIL under their sand. And that keeps us in power so we get those swell medical benefits and retirement goodies, doncha know.

[maximusveritas]

34. The only interesting part was the Edwards story at the end

Both liberals and Republicans have an interest in exaggerating the netroots’ influence, but in reality that influence is surprisingly marginal, even among candidates for whom you’d think it would be strong.

Several weeks ago, I asked John Edwards what the YearlyKos event was like. He couldn’t remember which event I was talking about, and looked over to an aide for help.

That sounds like classic Edwards to me. You can't expect the man to remember every group he's pandered to, can you?

[Cha]

40. I wouldn't exactly believe

anything that frw asshole had to write, especially, about a Dem.

[depakid]

37. More babble from a psuedo intellectual loser

who couldn't live up to mommy & daddy.

Somehow, the media seems to like those types.