Have We Reached the Tipping Point on Guns? (Cenk @ Huffington Post)

[ihavenobias]

By Cenk Uygur

How many shootings does there have to be in the news before we wonder about the wisdom of allowing just about anyone to get a gun in America? Our gun culture is completely out of control.

In just the last two days we have had 13 people killed in with a 9 mm and a .45-caliber, three police officers shot and killed in with an assault rifle and two other guns, and a five children killed with a shotgun in at the hands of their own father. How many will it take before we say enough is enough?

How about the eight people killed in a nursing home in a couple of days before these shootings? How about the ten killed in a couple of weeks earlier? Is there any point when gun rights advocates would admit that we have too much gun violence in America? What will it take for them to acknowledge the most obvious thing in the world?

Of course, their answer is that we don't have enough guns in the country. If we just allowed concealed weapons at and just about anywhere else you can imagine, then we would have less gun violence. Yes, maybe in bizzaro world, but in this world the more guns we have had in this country the more people have been shot ... with guns.

The Washington case is a good example. Would that father really have been able to kill his four young daughters and his young son without a shotgun? Maybe, it's happened before. But it would have been a hell of a lot harder and hell of a lot less likely. And what would have been the NRA alternative fix here - arm the kids?

I know it's a political impossibility, but we need to reign in the permissive gun culture in America. I've gone to a shooting range several times. I get the allure of it. It's fun and empowering. Until someone gets their head blown off...

to read the rest of this piece along with some heated comments.

PS---

[billyoc]

1. "I know it's a political impossibility, but we need to..."

Next window, please. :eyes:

[CherylK]

2. Well, he's right!

It stinks but it's the truth.

:hi:

[villager]

3. But but but... the NRA might be *mad* if we pursue a grown-up policy

...on unchecked gun proliferation!

[ejbr]

4. k & r n/t

[caraher]

5. I don't know, but if we are there's a deep irony

Consider the guy in Pittsburgh, and his ungrounded fear that Obama was planning to take his beloved guns. Could the acts of people like him, driven to some degree by RW fearmongering, lead to widespread demands for more restrictions on gun ownership? Irresponsible gun ownership could transform paranoid rantings into self-fulfilling prophecies. If the "militia" proves unable to regulate itself...

[20score]

6. K&R

[irislake]

7. That'll be the day!!

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. No.

A noisy minority is more powerful than an indifferent majority.

[Seldona]

9. If I believed banning guns would change these problems I would support it 100%!

I really don't believe that to be the case. Just one man's opinion. If how my life has been going lately, I am mostly likely wrong. heh

[Demeter]

10. Well, If We Have Universal Single Payer Health Coverage Including Mental

maybe this tragedy and many others could have been avoided.

I have a relative in serious need of treatment for emotional-mental problems. Not that said relative is a danger to anyone but himself. But even with insurance, will the patient go get help? Not likely.

But some kind of routine mental checkup could certainly screen out those most likely to harm themselves or others.

Of course, it would be the death knell for the GOP.

[Doctor_J]

11. As long as it's conservatives killing liberals/Dems, or at least

Hate Radio fans doing the killing, nothing will happen.

[smoogatz]

12. We're not there yet.

But the whole whackos with guns thing is just getting started, IMO. There will be a lot more of these mass shooting incidents as unemployment deepens and the rabid right-wing ratchet up the hate speech.

[matthewf]

13. k&r

[thelordofhell]

14. I wish I could say that I'm terribly shocked at all this gun violence.....

but really, there were record guns and ammo sales after the election so I can't be shocked that we are now seeing record gun violence. It's a damn shame, but is it really something unexpected?

[CherylK]

15. Bump!

:kick:

[Stinger2]

16. The problem not guns but whom is getting shot!

[benEzra]

17. Yes, we have. The nation has finally told the pro-ban fearmongers to shove it.

And there is no single style or class of firearm in the recent shootings to built momentum for another ban on protruding handgrips or whatever. The guy in North Carolina was a hunter who used a hunting shotgun and a camouflage deer rifle, AFAIK; the guy in New York used a couple of common handguns a la the Virginia Tech shooter; the guy in Pennsylvania used a popular mid-caliber civilian rifle that looks like an AK; the California rapist/murderer/carjacker used an ordinary pistol and a common SKS; the Alabama shooter used an AR-15, the most popular centerfire rifle in America.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I do think the breakdown of the social contract is the underlying cause here, and a lot of THAT can be laid at the feet of the fearmongers who threw away Congress in '94 over stupid and pointless gun restrictions. I am not sure we'd be where we are now as a nation had we never had the Iraq war, the Patriot Act/Surveillance Nation, DOJ-sanctioned torture, and the financial black hole the country has been pouring money into since 2000.

[santamargarita]

18. We should be reaching our tipping point on Hate Radio and Fox News!

It's the goddamn right-wing media!

[Kajsa]

19. I agree with Cenk.

As I asked in another thread that got moved Sunday,
( can't locate it nor the reply to my question-Damn!)

Why is there a need for assault weapons outside of
the military?

Like I stated, I got one reply that began with,
"I could think of a number of good reasons"
but the damn thread was moved( deleted?)
and nowhere to be found.

So, I ask that question again.

Do we really need AK47s and Uzis in civilian life?

[benEzra]

20. Actual AK-47's and Uzi's are already as tightly controlled as howitzers and tanks.

Possession of ANY automatic weapon in the USA outside of police/military duty is a 10-year Federal felony, with rare exceptions for a handful of pre-1986 collectibles.

U.S. civilians can only own NON-automatic, non-sound-suppressed civilian firearms under .51 caliber, plus over-.50 shotguns and some hunting rifles; automatic weapons require Federal authorization (BATFE Form 4, 6-month background check, and the signature of your local chief law enforcement officer, and a civilian-transferable pre-1986 AK will set you back about $17,000).

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

So-called "assault weapons" are NOT military automatic weapons; they are non-automatic, civilian-only guns, and more Americans own them than hunt (taking H.R.1022 as the operative definition).

[Kajsa]

21. Thanks so much for the info,BenEzra!

This is good information to know.

:)

[benEzra]

22. You're welcome.

I shoot competitively and recreationally with a non-automatic civilian AK lookalike, so proposed bans affect me very directly.