Going Back Where They Came From (Pat Buchanan against neocons and war)

[JohnOneillsMemory]

http://www.antiwar.com/pat/ 4/23/04
>snip<

"Like Kristol, Kerry wants more U.S. troops sent to Iraq where they can advance the neocons' project for empire. And at a fund-raiser in Juno Beach, Fla., Kerry declared eternal fealty to Israel: "I have a 100 percent record – not a 99, a 100 percent record – of sustaining the special relationship and friendship that we have with Israel."

Kristol's warning that the neocons could break with the Right and go to Kerry is an admission of what many conservatives have long argued. To neocons, Israel comes first, second, and third, conservative principles be damned.

>snip<

President Bush should have listened to his father who kept the neocons at some remove, and he had best beware, because they have a major card yet to play. That card is escalation.

With the situation in Iraq deteriorating, the neocon agenda is to widen the war into Syria, Iran and perhaps Saudi Arabia, and convert it into "World War IV," the war of their dreams, a war of civilizations, an Armageddon, with America and Israel on one side and Islam on the other.

Exiting Iraq with honor and avoiding the wider war for which the neocons are even now scheming is the first duty of patriots."

---------------------------------------
It's surreal to be agreeing with Pat Buchanan.
More evidence of the old-time conservatives reviling the neocons.

[Indiana_Dem]

1. Yikes! I'm afraid of that.

This is one scary group.

[necso]

2. Take no prisoners, Pat.

But the neocons aren't the only ones hoping for Armageddon.

Time to take the next step, Pat.

Oh, and we don't want the neocons back, maybe the Likud would like to have them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. We don't want these boys back Pat

Sorry, you can keep them

[BadGimp]

4. Well that settles it for me

We are TOTALLY SCREWED!!

Pay Buchanan made it clearer than anyone else I have listened to. And that muthaf'er is crazy.

I learned to listen to the crazies during the OJ trial. Crazy people can see inside the minds eye of other crazies (the OJ Jury was dominated by crazies or they went crazy during the trial (I know I did ), and each of the crazies in my office at the time were the only ones betting on an acquital).

[Leilani]

5. Pat Buchanan is not crazy

He is one of the most astute political commentators around. He knows the republican party like no one else.

There is a big rupture in the party between the old conservatives & the neocons. He HATES the neocons & they hate him. The have smeared him & called him antisemetic.

He is not anti semetic, but he is anti zionist.

[physioex]

6. I agree with Pat....

The US foregin policy is the cause of all the problems. The idea of imperialism from PNAC. Our cozy reltions with Israel and billions in foregin aid. This is the cause of hatered of America.

[SquireJons]

12. I think Pat is anti-semitic

Though I can't think of anything overt to show for it. It's kind of like a ton of circumstantial evidence in a murder trial. There's enough to convict.

Evidence A: In 1996, while running for president, he published a contending that America fought on the wrong side in WWII.

Evidence B: He has consistently been a critic of Israel, and America's attachment to Israel. (good for him)

Evidence C: He was a speech writer for Nixon, who saw Jewish enemies everywhere.

There's probably more. He is a Mel Gibson kind of Catholic, brutal and closed minded. I never thought I'd find myself in agreement with him (hope they have mittens and hats in hell), that's for sure.

It sure is weird when the other side makes a clearer case for your cause.:wtf:

[Merlin]

13. Do you have a copy of that '96 pro Nazi piece?

I remember hearing about that too. You're right that there are signs that Buchanan can be dismissed as an anti-Semite. That's what a lot of enlightened people I talk to think. But they can not point to anything specific. The '96 piece may be the clincher.

It's true he sounds more and more sensible since he's emerged as the leading conservative critic of the neocons. But if he can be easily and legitimately discounted, then his cred on the issue is worthless. Of course, another key point is that absolutely nobody on our side is raising a voice in support of this position because of the domestic political implications.

Another, more subtle, point is that perhaps PB is being encouraged to speak out like this, because he is seen as actually helping Bush with Jewish voters, in the same way that anti-war liberals criticizing Kerry for supporting the war actually helps Kerry with moderates.

That '96 piece may tell us a lot about the real PB.

[SquireJons]

19. It doesn't seem to be in my collection of books...

Sorry. I just remember reading several pieces about the book and how crazy it was to run for Prez right after writing a book that argues we should have fought with the Nazi's. It's crap like that which makes me very skeptical when I read anything reasonable attributed to Pat Buchanan.

[rman]

17. oh sure, "criticism" is circumstantial evidence of hate

whenever someone critisizes anyone, there can be only one reason: hate.

"He was a speech writer for Nixon"
yeah, guilt by association. the kids of the murderer are as guilty as the murderer.
follow that path and everyone ends up being guilty of something.

nothing overt, no calling for ridding the world of jews. but that shouldn't stop anyone from "just knowing" that critics of Israel are jew-haters.

[SquireJons]

18. What?

You lost me early on...

I don't think criticism = hate, and I have no idea of what pb thinks, but he is quick to rise up against anything Jewish.

For my part, I'm very critical of Israel, but I'm inclined to give an American Jew the benefit of doubt on most issues (other than Israel).

[Snazzy]

7. Read Strauss

Or read about him, which is as far as I got, so far.

It's not about Israel--it sure as hell seems like it is--but that's not the intention, that's just a means.

It's not even some Christian right Armageddon thing. Another focus group they conveniently make happy.

It's just about war. War make people like Wolfy and Pearle the philosopher kings. War reinforces their elitism. There is no religion to these guys--God is dead; it's Machiavellian self-interest, halting modernity, and keeping the non-elite at bay. Through chaos.

I've been blurting out seemingly well reasoned stuff about neocons for years--I was wrong. Read about Strauss. It's worse than you think and it's even much more simple than PNAC. These guys are the American Taliban, 'cept they got a Ph.D. doing it and it's tipped on it's ass--no morals, nor religion. Just a FU'd code for abusing power, absolutely, taught by a Phil. freak at U of C.

[Disturbed]

8. Neocons

Neocons are all about strengthening and expanding the Amerikan
Empire. The Christian Right and Zionists are merely pawns in that game.

[rman]

15. i'd say America to is just a pawn in the neocon's game

Would expansion of the American empire, following the neocon plans, actually benefit Americans?
Some, yes. The wealthy ones; neocons and their supporters. I don't think it's realistic to expect them to share with people once they have accumulated all wealth there is to be accumulated.
Neoconism is about expanding *their* empire, which goes right across the borders of nations, across political and monetary borders, and across generations.

If Bush is the naked emperor, then the neocons are the foreign advisor who cons the emperor into thinking the advisor is going to give him a nice set of new clothes.
(of course contemporary reality is somewhat more complicated then that; it's a metaphore. an old one at that; this isn't the first time something like this happens)

[Jazzgirl]

9. I am reading Machiavelli now.

You're right, its about constant war and control. These guy truly scary and need to go away....quickly!

[happynewyear]

11. It is all about Israel

That is the bottom line on this whole situation I believe.

[anarchy1999]

10. Read up and do a google search on Paul Findley.

Then ask the mods to move this thread to the Mid-East Forum. Everyone here is heading for trouble otherwise.

[Christ was Socialist]

14. I would say go back to where you came from

But alot of them are ex trotskyists and old 60's radicals. They split because of the lefts support for the arab world. Sorry we dont want them.

[rman]

16. why is it so hard to imagine

that these people (neocons) are in fact non-political, and politics, like religion, and like the media, is just a tool for them.
it's just that they need to get involved with the political machine in order to exert influence. and so they do; they'll pick any political movement that suits their needs.