Facts are stubborn things, but they are still facts

[teach1st]

Mr Pitts' editorial about the relationship between facts and our increasingly degraded political discourse is well worth clicking the link.

Facts are stubborn things, but they are still facts
Tallahassee Democrat, 2/22, by Leonard Pitts

I got an e-mail the other day that depressed me.

It concerned a piece I recently did that mentioned Henry Johnson, who was awarded the French Croix de Guerre in World War I for singlehandedly fighting off a company of Germans (some accounts say there were 14, some say almost 30, the ones I find most authoritative say there were about two dozen) who threatened to overrun his post. Johnson managed this despite the fact that he was only 5-foot-4 and 130 pounds, despite the fact that his gun had jammed, despite the fact that he was wounded 21 times.

My mention of Johnson's heroics drew a rebuke from a fellow named Ken Thompson, which I quote verbatim and in its entirety:

"Hate to tell you that blacks were not allowed into combat intell 1947, that fact. World War II ended in 1945. So all that feel good, one black man killing two dozen Nazi, is just that, PC bull."

More

[Atman]

1. K&R

.

[liberal N proud]

2. So spot on

[RC]

3. So spot on...

"To listen to talk radio, to watch TV pundits, to read a newspaper's online message board, is to realize that increasingly, we are a people estranged from critical thinking, divorced from logic, alienated from even objective truth. We admit no ideas that do not confirm us, hear no voices that do not echo us, sift out all information that does not validate what we wish to believe."

[ThomCat]

4. I had a discussion just today with friends about Anti-intellecualism.

here in the US. We have been discussing this quite a bit recently, actually.

People here Rejoice in ignorance, believing that what they think is more important that any facts. People actively, proudly rejects education, and think that learning "too much" makes you a worse person, or less credible somehow, or incapable of understanding some essential truth that only they comprehend.

How is it possible that ignorance and lack of education have become a virtue? How have we become a nation that despises knowledge?

Admittedly, many "experts" had a lot of information and knowledge, and used it poorly, or purely for self-interest or partisan gains. That goes a long way towards discrediting "experts." So maybe I'm answering my own question.

But almost everywhere else, the answer is to make sure the people with knowledge have the Right Knowledge, and the wisdom to use it well. The answer is to have some checks and balances in place to guard against fraud and trickery.

Only here does it seem that there is a total backlash against having knowledge entirely. :(

[secondwind]

5. can I borrow from this post?

[ThomCat]

6. Feel free.

:)

[queenjane]

9. The anti-intellectuals are going to destroy us

A small example. Just served on Federal jury duty. The obviously "over-educated" (particularly the attorneys) were immediately dismissed from the jury box. Those left were initially, for me, hard to read. When all the evidence had been presented, and we adjourned to the jury room, the divisions became immediately and startingly clear: 6 of the jurors, including myself, had taken copious and detailed notes during the trial. We carefully examined and handled the evidence, and debated its validity. We had concerns about how the case was handled, and whether the defendent was actually guilty, or just foolish and careless. The other 6 sat with their arms folded. They weren't interested in discussing the evidence (or obvious lack thereof). They hadn't taken notes. Indeed, one juror, an elderly man, had dozed through most of it. When we went around the table and discussed our concerns, the only thing those 6 had to say was, "I believe the cops".

This is a microcosm of what our entire society has become: A rabble of the brain-dead, non-analytical, deeply defensive, self-righteous. Did I also mention that the defendant was black, and these people were all middle-aged or older, low-education white people? I guess that before this experience, I didn't quite believe how badly corrupted our justice system was. What an eye-opener. I hope like hell that I never have to be tried by jury, because that "jury of your peers" crap is just that. Crap.

[ThomCat]

10. It is because of people like that

who will doze off, not care about any details, and then simpify things to "I believe the cops" that cops are able to get away with brutality and corruption.

Cops know that those people "respecting" the police with a reverence that borders on patriotism or nationalism, and they are the ones that get onto every jury. Cops know that those people are going to believe anything they say, no matter what it is, no matter how outlandish, or how shallow and unbelievable the lie might be.

I few up with, and used to live surrounded by a lot of those people, and it's scary how far they'll bend over backward to try to find some kind of rationalization to defend anything cops do. Because otherwise they have to start paying attention and thinking about things, and that would be too much effort. Rationalizing is much easier. And so we end up in a place where any brutality or corruption can be ignored or excused because "they must have done something to deserve it." x(

[bermudat]

7. So true.

The unique thing about repugnantcans or teabaggers is that the truth does not matter.

If the truth does not match their 'altered states' view of the world,

the truth is just dismissed. That is why arguing with them is meaningless,

their minds are made up and nothing, including the truth, will make them

see the light. That is why if Obama produced his birth certificate, hell, if

he produced the birth video, it would not make a difference to their internal

dissonance.

[depakid]

8. Seems Pitts' had a run in with the culture of lies that's been propagated in America

through media deregulation and consolidation.

...those are "facts," and the whole point here is that facts no longer mean what they once did. I suppose I could also ignore him. But you see, Ken Thompson is not just some isolated eccentric. No, he is the Zeitgeist personified.

To listen to talk radio, to watch TV pundits, to read a newspaper's online message board, is to realize that increasingly, we are a people estranged from critical thinking, divorced from logic, alienated from even objective truth. We admit no ideas that do not confirm us, hear no voices that do not echo us, sift out all information that does not validate what we wish to believe.

I submit that any people thus handicapped sow the seeds of their own decline; they respond to the world as they wish it were rather to the world as it is. That's the story of the Iraq War.

But objective reality does not change because you refuse to accept it. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge a wall does not change the fact that it's a wall.

And you shouldn't have to hit it to find that out.

[Snazzy]

11. "she can remember a time when facts settled arguments"

Me too. I'll skip a few steps, but most of my real life political/current affairs/foreign policy/etc arguments with local yokels have now devolved to "no, you go look it up." (Maybe insert an insult if I'm in a bar and had a few).

Of course they aren't going to go look it up, and for about the last decade I decided I don't care any more unless I'm being paid to persuade. It also amounts to me being called a liar, since I've already looked it up, learned it, or came across it in the daily flow of non-opinion based information. You know, curiosity about the world? We used to have that, didn't we?

Arguments with what, 30% or more, amounts to people feeling their way through what they expect ought to be facts derived from whatever worldview. Being possessed with actual supportable facts from reliable and often original sources somehow is a liability in this climate. I get a homework assignment for me to go off and re-research whatever I already know and again prove it. I guess I'm supposed to bring a printout to the bar or street corner. Fuck that.

Oh I still pepper people with facts, and get the occasional convert. A long process that I figure involves the subject accidentally coming across some information I provided. Like slipping on a giant factual banana peel, since actually reading something germane seems to be verboten. Giant banana peels of facts like Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, or like the good ole US of A is torturing prisoners in your name.