Is "Black Bloc" hijacking Occupy Oakland?

[Lasher]

(CBS News) Peaceful protests by the Occupy Oakland movement were overshadowed this week by violent clashes between a small group of demonstrators and police. Now there's concern among the majority of protesters that their message is being hijacked. CBS News correspondent John Blackstone looks into this latest development.

It could be seen as a battle for the image of the Occupy movement. One demonstrator struggles to put out the flames of a burning barricade as others masked and dressed in black pull him away.

It wasn't the only time during a huge Occupy demonstration in Oakland this week that protesters found themselves on opposite sides. When dozens of black clad marchers began attacking a supermarket, others urged them to stop -- finally linking arms to protect the store from further destruction.

<snip>

For years, these black-clad demonstrators, known as the Black Bloc, have been showing up at marches in Europe and the U.S. Although often small in numbers, by destroying property and challenging police, they can hijack the message of otherwise peaceful protests.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57319036/is-black-bloc-hijacking-occupy-oakland/

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

1. I believe Black Bloc are police infiltrators used to create an excuse to use force.

Suggest OWS capture some of them and see what happens then.

[Historic NY]

2. The ones in the video are pretty young.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

4. from the academy ? capture a few - investigate.

[tama]

6. How can I know

you are not a police infiltrator instigating violence against anarchists?

The point of this question is to show where your belief leads... and giving into faux logic of "avoiding excuse to use force", as they don't need and and can invent any. This is not about appearances and excuses and stupid games like that but being true. You start by being true to yourself, and that is where you find the cause not to throw the first stone.

Self-defence is never a simple moralistic issue, except when it just happens.

[dotymed]

17. I agree. While most of them are probably not aware

who their real masters are. The possibility of financial assistance by the government is not far-fetched.

[provis99]

3. black bloc = teabaggers and James O'Keefe wannabes.

[dipsydoodle]

5. So they were the ones in

in Seattle during the 1999 anti-WTO demonstrations were they ?

Get real.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. They don't have to be the same people

Any police department can recruit provocateurs. I've seen obvious, clumsy ones in Portland.

[tama]

7. I was in one black bloc march

2008 in solidarity with Greeks and against police violence.

The cops took one of us, then the police car was surrounded, mostly by young women being very vocal, and traffic was blocked until they released our friend. I was not wearing mask and I was identified from the TV-news about the march. I'm personally a pacifist who has refused draft, but I don't condemn those who have not signed into Satyagraha principles or are incapable of following them and give into anger. Responding to black block anger and self-defence with "pacifist" anger is not pacifist, it's just anger.

While I don't always agree with black block tactics on every occasion, I talk with thosne anarchist on anarchist forums and voice my opinions and disagreements. Just like on DU, when in disagreement I talk to those I disagree with, not about them behind their backs.

Do you really believe I'm a teabagger, or some other enemy of yours?

[a simple pattern]

10. I don't know about Greece, but here in the States

they seem to attach themselves to any protest the media and TPTB would like to become unpopular.

Can it be a coincidence *every* time?

[tama]

13. Could it be

that the whole idea of this movement is NOT a popularity contest? This is not IDOLS...

[Tunkamerica]

8. I knew a few who identified as black bloc several years ago

and they were all about separating protestors from police who beating them. It was their biggest concern.

It's easy to demonize those who wear masks and have a "scary" name. I'm sure they have their instigators and infiltrators like all such groups do.

Basically... don't believe the hype.

[mulsh]

9. the ones I've seen in action in San Francisco and Oakland, since

the 80's, only seem to be interested in breaking windows, starting fires and generally being a pain in the ass to all around. I have never seen a group of these cowardly shits try to keep police from demonstrators. But perhaps that's because my only experience with these pathetic cowards is at local events. I assume I've probably know a few people who do this over the years.

The one thing they are very good at is distracting the media's attention and allowing it to focus exclusively on mindless destruction and violence. bravo black clad warriors, well done.

[saras]

11. That's what I've seen - this is as mass media as I get, so I don't see the "hype"

What I've seen is, hundreds of times, they cause trouble that is both unrelated to and forbidden by the protest's organizers, usually targeted towards bystanders instead of the people the protest is directed against.

Can anyone point me to a video, court case, or other documented record of them helping?

[tama]

14. Don't give into

media attention. Don't be attention whore. After that, let's talk more.

[Lasher]

15. That doesn't make any sense.

What are the OWS demonstrations about if they are not meant to gain attention?

[Historic NY]

12. OWS better police themselves before the message get drowned out by vandalism...

surround and isolated them or tot the police. Either way its not a pretty picture & there are those just chomping at the bit.

[Lasher]

16. OWS cannot proceed effectively without establishing their own leadership.

Someone will be in control, it's just a question of who.

[dotymed]

18. With the self control that the Veterans for Peace have shown,

They seem to be the natural choice to wield participant control.

[ancianita]

20. Black Bloc Are Intelligent

In Barcelona and during the last G20, they helped develop the very 'people's mic' and general assembly that the occupation movement has adopted. They are the 99%, too, and the defensive arm who show state security powers that the movement has its defenders. They hold that there's no such thing as violence against property, only violence against humans. Defensive force in no way makes occupiers 'just like them' -- the violent state. It doesn't.

The occupation will have to come to terms with anarchists if it wants to be the eventual negotiator for the 99%. Think on the Ghandian Myth, and how passivism usually ends up as squatter cities, in which the inhabitants practice self-congratulatory democracy while accomplishing little more than self-domination. The 1% will fly over them. The 1% don't care if they are loved or hated by the 99%, as long as they are feared, and hire police to make fear prevail.

Provocateurs help keep the names of the other Black Bloc members secret. They know their own. The Black Bloc are around to kick this movement up a notch, to create space for the nonviolent. Don't think that working class gun toting teabaggers of the 99% aren't watching to see just how committed this movement will be to their interests in freedom. They are intelligent enough to know that their freedom is not to be equated with democracy. The occupation hasn't yet addressed their conflation of the two. It's time for the occupy movement to consider new ideas and actions. Try to give this a fair hearing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjJsCvkRa7I

[ancianita]

21. Even Gandhi himself claimed that violence has its place.

" I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence... I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour. "

MLK was negotiated with because of the existence of Malcolm X and the Black Panthers. The civil rights movement wasn't planned that way, but it worked out that way. The nonviolent can be served well by their defenders, if they and others can get past feeling morally superior and coexist with each other's strengths. Think on why we thank our vets for their service -- it's certainly not because we feel morally superior.

When the Occupation Movement learns how to work with the Black Bloc to achieve its ends, it will reach the moment when it can say to the 1%'s governing henchmen: "You have a choice -- either negotiate with the Black Bloc or negotiate with us." The Occupation will then get credit for 'peaceful' change, just as Gandhi's and MLK's movements did.