If Al Gore had shot a damn duck he would be President of the United States

[LEFTofLEFT]

First - The NRA sucks big time.

Second - Guns kill.

Third - Cars kill.

Ban cars and guns

It does not work like that.

Letting the right wings fucks box us in on the issue of gun controll is stupid.

This is an issue that devides the left - it is also an issue that looses us elections.

If gun controll is one of your top five issues and you have not lost a loved one to gun voilence, I suggest that you take another look at world problems.

[StClone]

1. Bush killed a Protected Species

Gore may not be a gun nut. But Bush is a nut with a gun. But he's our nut and we love him.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ohioleft/message/427

[LEFTofLEFT]

4. Yes - it was a KIlldear (sp) i think

He should have beensighted for that offence - yet again shrub skates

[StClone]

5. Killdeer

Yes the link has that and a lot more.

[Spoonman]

26. Slightly inaccurate

The Kildeer is not an endangered species
I do know for a fact that "daddy" recieved a $150 fine, which I doubt he paid!

[corarose]

30. Hey, you just created a slogan

Bush is a nut with a gun.

[liberalnurse]

2. I believe so.....

He lost a lot of good union member votes due to his gun stance. I'm refering to cops and correction officers for one.....Thats all they could see.

[billbuckhead]

3. Guns are just an excuse for the kulture wars

Listen to what the NRA really says. There are many Charlton Heston speeches available or check out the speech Zell Miller gave to the NRA. It's not guns, it's race, sexual orientation, fundementalist religion,confederate flags and hatred of cities/suburbs. GUN RIGHTS ARE CODE LANGUAGE FOR PREJUDICE AND HATE.

[regularguy]

32. True but this goes both ways...

Let's face it, for some on the left it's not guns it's "sheeple" and NASCAR, and supposed incest, and "trailer trash" and whatever. Gun Control agruments *sometimes* become a way for urban educated folks to look down on people - let's face it - they consider inferior.
-RG

[baffie]

6. Hello?? Gore WON!! He was never going to get into office

because 1) the Repubs were too determined to steal election, and apparently from what I'm reading 2) the DLC WANTED them to steal so they could say "Gore lost because he was too liberal, he gave too much attention to ethnic groups, women, gays etc when he should have been favoring corporations - that's why he lost." It's starting to look like the DLC's agenda was frustrated when the independent recounts, together with the scandals on voter disenfranchisement, showed GORE not only WON, but would have won in a LANDSLIDE if not for the cheating. So to obscure that incovenient reality, DLC is still claiming "Gore lost" when he WON. This is propaganda Goebels (sp?) would be proud of - repeat a lie until people accept it as the truth.

So, please stop analyzing "why Gore lost." To do so is to be a pawn of the propagandizers, and in fact to aid in their propaganda.

[LEFTofLEFT]

11. HELLLLLLLLLLLLLO - I never said he lost!!!!!!!!

I said that he would be POTUS.

He could have won by more votes than could have been cheated around.

I say what i mean - don't read your problems into my words :)

[billbuckhead]

12. SO RIGHT, GORE WON with the gun crowd saying he was going to take their ..

precious firearms. They're scared to death. No other advanced nation has the ridiculous lack of oversight over these weapons of terror.

[Romulus]

7. killing ducks wasn't the problem

and even if he did go "hunting," he still had a problem. Kerry's supporters don't seem to get this, either, when they talk about how much he likes to go "hunting."

What killed Gore was his support for handgun owner licensing and firearms registration - which are rightly understood by firearms owners as code words for "starting the firearms confiscation process."

The right to own firearms has nothing to do with being able to hunt birds.

[StandWatie]

9. you are paranoid

no one is going to take your damn handgun away at the federal level or mine either, this is the dumbest issue I've ever seen in my life.

[LEFTofLEFT]

14. SO very true.

My uncle owns a over and under 410 hand gun. For most of my life it was not lawful to have that gun.

No one ever asked and he never told.

I would take that gun when wading through the swamps aroung my grandfathers house. I never shot that gun but it was a confort knowing that i had it when i was chest deep in the swamp.. Guns can be tools .

[baffie]

10. What killed Gore was Repub cheating.

IOW, there was nothing wrong with his message. The people elected Al Gore, so he resonated just fine and didn't need to change anything except perhaps the fact that he let himself be swayed into quitting.

[LEFTofLEFT]

15. The election should have never been close enough to steal!

The right wing fucks are monsters - anyone on the left that does not play to kill is foolish.

The days of playing nice and taking the high road are over.

VERY VERY sad - but i think that it is true.

[Cheswick2.0]

23. oh please

the lack of reasonable gun contol in this nation is a major problem. Stop trying to use the bush coup as a reason to put forward an NRA aggenda.

[LEFTofLEFT]

25. I would say $crew you and the NRA -

But that is not the DU way -

If you want to have a real discussion, please answer this

What are the five biggest problems facing America?
The five biggest facing the world?
Will a democratic president do more to make the need changes?
Do you want a dem to win?

This is not an issue that should cost us votes

[Maine Mary]

31. How is it a problem?

I have a thread in the gun dungeon titled. Maine: 2nd highest gun ownership in the nation, LOWEST violent crime rate. We have very relaxed gun laws here and virtually no crime. DC, with some of the strictist gun laws is number ONE in crime. I think "the problem" you refer to has deeper roots then the weapons criminals use.

BTW, though the NRA endorsed me this last time I won my election in 98 even though the bastards did a freakin mailing against me. So I'm not towing their bull. I listen to the people of my district not them.

[Touchdown]

8. I don't think Dems look good hunting.

Remember when Jimmy Carter went fishing and got attacked by an insane rabbit?:evilgrin:

[maine_raptor]

Are you saying

had he shot the rabbit, Ronnie Raygun would have lost?

[Touchdown]

24. No. Just thread farting.

:D

[LEFTofLEFT]

16. That was too weird.

I love JC - the best President I have seen.

I still laugh - a big hard belly laugh when i think about that crazy event.

[slackmaster]

17. Two words

Dukakis.

Tank.

[maine_raptor]

19. I really don't think

using a tank to go hunting is all that "productive" :evilgrin:

Too much of the meat gets "spoiled"

[LEFTofLEFT]

20. TWO WORDS

Press Coverage

[never cry wolf]

13. thanks

just sent the link off to a good buddy who backs bush but is very strong on animal rights.

[LEFTofLEFT]

18. Why would you have a good butty that supports shrub?

I am for animal rights - i eat meat and wish that i would eat much less.

Eating the amount of meat that we eat is wrong and quite bad for the environment.

Does your good butty eat meat? How does that butty feal about eating meat?

[Cheswick2.0]

21. more voted for him than bush

how exactly did gun control lose us the election?

[LEFTofLEFT]

22. You are very right

Al Gore won the Election - The problem is that he is not PRESIDENT.

This thread is really a responce to the Dean A rating from the NRA agument.

Why let this issue cost us votes.


The right wing fucks are monsters - anyone on the left that does not play to kill is foolish.

The days of playing nice and taking the high road are over.

VERY VERY sad - but i think that it is true.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. that might make sense if he was not in office because

he got less votes. As it is your annalysis means that the country will more likely vote for someone who favors gun control.

[LEFTofLEFT]

36. Gore lost his home state

If you don't think a duck hunting trip in the Tennessee valley would have swung the vote there you have no clue.

My point is that the election should have never been close enough to steal.

We have got to fight the right wing monsters with a mad man vengence.

I will say it again - The days of taking the high road are gone.

Their machine is killing the world - I will not turn the other cheek any longer. This is a cold civil war that we must win.

I say fight now while it is still bloodless - it may not be pleasent - IT IS IMPORTANT

[Maine Mary]

27. The gun issue hurt Gore. Period.

And anyone who thinks it didn't is delusional. I know what I saw and heard on the campaign trail (for myself) in 2000. Many said they'd vote for me (for State Rep.) and liked Gore but wouldn't vote for him. Why? The gun issue. GW took my district by a pretty good margin even though I managed to garner 57%.

Every vote counts incuding gun owner votes. Yes, I believe Gore won. But that fact would never have been in dispute if gun owners hadn't been afraid of him. Most of the GW gun owner voters were reluctant ones. They really did like Gore better, but could not vote for him on the gun issue alone.

[maine_raptor]

28. I agree, Maine Mary

Lots of folks didn't feel Bush was smart enough, but that Gore, well "He's goina take my deer rifle away!!! was a big factor.

[LEFTofLEFT]

29. Every vote counts - YES YES YES

It breaks my spirit some that we must surrender on some worthy issues to beat the RW monsters.

[Spoonman]

33. The same

The gun ownership issue is definitely a sway vote issue.
My district is 90% union blue-collar workers (traditionally Democratic voters), and 88% of them voted for GW based on this issue alone.

We will never win an election until we come together on this issue.

I happen to be pro gun ownership, but vote the party line regardless.
I am however the exception rather than the rule in Texas.

[LEFTofLEFT]

35. I just moved from Texas

The people i worked with there would have voted for some one who wanted to cut off their left ball before they would have voted for Gore because he "wanted their gun." There are many one issue voters on the right. We need not let the right get al of the gun nut votes - there are just too many in the south.

[Spoonman]

38. Perception

The "gun nut" votes. This is exactly what causes those one issue voters to swing. We label them in a derogatory fashion. What do you expect people to do? Stick around for the abuse?
Gore was very clear on his stance for gun control. Most gun owners such as myself did not like it. The reasons most people use to support gun control just don't add up for us.
Main Mary and I share like opinions on the subject, look at her post, and you will see the why.
I'm sorry we don't agree on the issue, but alienation doesn't help.

[LEFTofLEFT]

41. I think we agree

You are not a gun nut - are you?

Do you believe that there are gun nuts?

It is not a good choice of words. Take away the derogatory label and the reality of the situation remains. There are many voters that let gun issues sway their vote. My point is we can not afford to let this happen. There are more important issues now.

[TahitiNut]

37. I disagree.

The NRA uses the political cover of "guns" to attack Democrats, betraying the truth in allegations that it has become more of a partisan organization than an "issue-oriented" organization. In behaving this way, the NRA actually does harm to the "issue" it purportedly espouses, IMHO. Thus, Gore was not harmed by the "gun issue" as much as he was harmed by partisan zealots who benefit from the intellectually dishonest 'debate' on the "gun issue."

Were the NRA truly dedicated to diligently and responsibly defending the Second Amendment they'd behave more responsibly in offering, not mere obstructionism and partisanship, but positive and proactive measures to address the core problems with arms proliferation among criminals and children. While conscientious persons may disagree with proposed 'solutions,' it's only reasonable to offer alternatives that are more acceptable to them in dealing with whatever degree of problem they also see.

[Maine Mary]

39. They (the NRA) attacked me once too

with a mailing during my race for State Rep. in 98. My gun owners saw past their lies anyway and voted for me. THEY knew I wasn't going to take their guns away. My point is that very few gun owners see the NRA as their "religion". You only hear about the ones who do. Most take what the NRA has to say into account but do not rely on them solely for info. Many gun owners don't even like the NRA. I would not have won in 98 otherwise.

The NRA bastards don't deserve all the credit you are giving them.

[LEFTofLEFT]

40. Nice words

Nice words and a thinking person would understand your case. And while what you say is true it is really just a bunch of nice words.


The gun issue cost many dems votes - it is that simple.

[JayS]

42. You mean measures like this one?

http://www.psn.gov/about.asp

[Fescue4u]

43. Cant blame the repubs on this one.

The Democratic party shot itself in the foot on guns.
It was stupid then and its stupid now.

Gore cast the deciding vote on the "assault weapon" ban thereby painting himself squarely as anti-gun. And it cost him the election.

Everytime A democratic leader starts squawking about guns, votes run the other way.

Far more familys own guns than those who do not. Gun ownership is nearly one gun per person. This IS A LOSING issue.