Jewish DUers, do you hate Lieberman?

[ButterflyBlood]

I really wish I could make this a poll but it's only for specific people. Regardless I want the allegations that Lieberman is bashed only because of his religion to come to a rest. I'm fairly certain that the percentage of Jewish DUers who hate Lieberman is about equal to the percentage of the board as a whole (ie very high)

*edit* typo

[SyracuseDemocrat]

1. Nah

I'm either voting for Kerry or Dean in the New York primary, but I don't hate Lieberman. He would still be loads better than Bush. ABB 2004, don't forget it!!

[jiacinto]

2. This isn't scientific

because there are probably lots of lurkers who don't post. And since the most vocal members here hate Lieberman, there is no doubt that the results will come out the way you want them to. Also how do you we know that the people voting are actually Jewish?

[Wonk]

18. Duh. So is every single other internet poll. YMMV.

At least we can be pretty sure that the responses in this poll are from actual people, whereas some internet polls get freeped by bots (programs written to vote multiple times).

[jiacinto]

33. But they aren't true reflections of opinions

due to the flaws I stated in the previous post.

[aquart]

3. I'm more embarrassed. You can't hate a nebbish.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. ROFL! What he/she said!

Sorry, I don't know your gender!

[JewelDigger]

11. Oki...I'll bite....

what's a 'nebbish'??? Scheeeeeescccccch!!!

[virgdem]

14. Literal tranlation - little nerd

Think of the characters that Woody Allen sometimes portrays in his earlier movies (Take the Money and Run and Banannas come to mind). That is the best example of what a nebbish is.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

4. I'm Jewish

And I don't care much for Lieberman based on his stance on Iraq. It seems that he lets personal (religious) grudges affect his votes. Unprofessional, IMHO.

[sasquatch]

5. He is

everytime he votes with Bush he pisses on the graves of holucost victims. He has betrayed his people and jewish people tell me that at work.

[dolstein]

19. Your post would be funny if it weren't so sickening

Gee, what about the Iraqi holocaust? How do you honor the memory of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Iraqis slaughtered by Hussein by opposing his removal from power?

Once upon a time the Democrats were actually willing to use military force to remove genocidal tyrants.

Why not ask Rep. Tom Lantos, a holocaust survivor who supported the war in Iraq whether Joe Lieberman betrayed "his people".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Genocidal? Hundreds of thousands? I was willing to use military

force to remove genocidal tyrants in Somalia but it got the centrists nervous after 19 troops got killed.

[sangha]

29. Spare us

It wasn't "centrists" who complained when those troops died in Somalia; It was the Repukes, who used the deaths to attack Clinton and his policies.

[jiacinto]

34. Why do you bother with them, Dolstein?

Sometimes I think that we'd both be better off just putting these people on ignore.

[StandWatie]

37. it's just a coincidence

That it's always the far right DLC dems come out complaining?

It's just like the Republicans new tactic with their judges "you don't like him because he is hispanic", "you don't like him because he is Catholic", "you don't like her because she is a woman".

If you want to get pissy about the "Joe the Zionist Agent" sort of comments that's one thing, but there are way too many elected Jews who are heroes around here to try and claim that people just don't like Joe because he's Jewish.

[jiacinto]

40. I am not part of the DLC

And this board is dominated with those on the far left. Only at DU would I be considered "far right".

[StandWatie]

50. uh yeah..

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/lieberman-ifcj.htm

Like normal people make infomercials with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell for Center for Jewish and Christian Values

[Forkboy]

42. You should just put everyone on ignore

that doesn't see things the carlos way...that way you'll have a nice,warm and fuzzy visit without any thinking involved.

I hear it's the popular thing to do among sycophants.

[Wonder]

46. LOL

is listening!

[wuushew]

6. Religion is irrelevant

He could be a Feingold or Wellstone, who are loved for good reason

[ButterflyBlood]

8. that's exactly what I say

but for some reason the Lieberman apologists keep saying his religion is why he gets so much bashing here.

[tkmorris]

10. I agree

It's a shame but I find it VERY hard to post to threads that involve Israel or Palestinians and related issues. Any criticism whatsoever of Israel or Jewish people WILL result in a charge of Anti-Semitism. There are some people who seem to feel that any critique of Sharon et al is off-limits. It is wrong to hold any group of people anywhere above reproach but nonetheless that is apparently what we are expected to do.

[arcos]

20. Boxer and Feinstein too! n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

22. Boxer yes

Feinstein blech

[Wonder]

48. You beat me too it!

is listening!

[oasis]

9. Of 30,000 DUers what % despises Bush-lite candidates regardless

of race, creed, color or religion?

[virgdem]

12. I don't hate him, but I have no great love for him either

I lived in CT in 1988 and when he ran against Weicker, I voted for Weicker based on my prior knowledge of Weicker's positions at that time. I did not know Lieberman from a hole in the wall, but now that I am more familiar with his positions, I am not thrilled with him. He is too much of a hawk and bush* ass kisser. The fact that he is Jewish does not in the least sway me one way or the other. Just because a candidate for any office is the same religion as I am in no way dictates whether I vote for them or not.

[Wonder]

49. "too much of a hawk and bush* ass kisser"

says, "yup!"

[EFF BrandyWine]

13. I don't hate anyone...

I find bush beneath contempt and therefore cannot find the energy it would take to evoke the amount of outrage hate requires. Lieberman I find annoying. I attended an event where he spoke. He made no impression worth remembering.

Hate is a word I find offensive. I dislike bush and his entire cabal but hate only diminishes the person who hates. The hated doesn't care that he/she is hated. Since I am now going to bed I will not be around to reply to flaming. You see, I am a Jew and by golly I've dealt with haters from childhood on. There are plenty of haters around so I refuse to drop to their level to join their ranks.

I just re-read my post and realize I have made very little sense, so goodnight and thank you for reading.


;-)

[foo_bar]

23. you nailed it

"Hating" Lieberman isn't explicitly Jew-bashing, but for some reason "he's a PNAC Likud-loving whore in Sharon's pocket!" missives sound a little off.

[Cassandra]

31. Why are you linking to nazi.org?

Are you indicating agreement with that site, or what?

[Wonder]

51. "he's a PNAC Likud-loving "

says, "Yup!"

[agingdem]

15. I'm Jewish so...

I don't like him because he's pro-war, pro-business, anti-Hollywood, and self-righteous...and I can't stand the sound of his voice. The fact that he kissed Cheney's butt during the 2000 VP debates really pissed me off. However...if it's a choice between Holy Joe and the Frat Boy, well, I'd vote Joe.

[Myra]

17. *Yes*

I detest him. He's a right winger in disguise.
His policies are reprehensible. He's a sanctimonious prig.
He stabbed Gore in the back during the recall and many times since.

He's scum.
He's lower than scum.
He's the stuff between scum's toes.
He's lower than the stuff between scum's toes.
He's positively...Repuke-esque.

Does that answer your question?

[Wonder]

55. Have you answered the question?

says, "yup!"

[Cascadian]

25. I dunno. I would rather vote for Angela Davis than Holy Joe.

I have respect for that man. Never have and never will!

John

[Wonder]

52. "kissed Cheney's butt during the 2000 VP debates"

says, "could have done without the visual, but yup!"

[mitchum]

16. I don't care about his religion (his sanctimony repulses me)

[Cascadian]

24. I think his religion should not be a reason to hate him.

That would be wrong. Paul Wellstone was Jewish and I agreed and respected what he did as a U.S. Senator. Lieberman just puts too much of his religious morals upon what he supports and it rubs people like myself the wrong way. I do not get the apologists who seem to think that just because people criticize Lieberman it's because he is Jewish. That is not the point. It's his conservative leanings that makes him incompatible as a Democrat and as a Democratic presidential candidate.

John

[ikojo]

26. Jew here...

I don't *hate* LIEberman but I do wish he would go ahead and switch parties and try for the Republican presidential nomination.

That being said LIEberman is far too conservative for me. I would not vote for him because of his stands on social and cultural issues. He is too closely aligned with the right (and Lynne Cheney in particular). He approves of censoring academics if they stray too far from what he and the right considers the norm.

His unquestioning support for Ariel Sharon really scares me as well. Sharon is not interested in peace. Jews NEED to question the Israeli government and to do so is not to be anti Israel as is so often assumed anytime someone dares to say the Israeli government is doing wrong. As an orthodox Jew he needs to tell Sharon that he is not treating the Palestinians in a just manner.

[Kamika]

27. hate is a strong word

Why would anyone hate someone they dont even know personally

[hedda_foil]

28. Hate is too mild a word for it.

I despise the little neocon bastard.

[Wonder]

56. that's tellin' 'em

is listening!

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. I don't hate him

He's a fine senator. I just wish he would stay that way. He's not a natural-born leader and doesn't inspire me, personally.

I think it's impossible to hate him though, I mean, he IS a nice guy.

[jos]

32. Dislike him

Hate may be too strong a word. I dislike him, and believe many of his positions are contrary to what the Democratic Party should stand for. I would not vote for him in the general election. I know a lot of fellow Jews who feel the same way.

[Cassandra]

35. I don't hate him

His self-rightiousness has turned me off, as did his vocal support of * for the Iraq war. I think he has ties to the insurance and accounting industries that made it difficult to take them on when the fight for tougher regulations was going on. I would much rather he not be the party's nominee, but if he were, I would hold my nose and vote for him. ABB!

[tom_paine]

36. "Hate" is perhaps too strong a word

But my disgust at his weakness, at his puling Bushevik bootlicking, at the way he seems to tear whole chapters out of the Bushevik Playbook on How to Bash the Left...often approaches loathing, yes.

But I don't loathe the man per se. I loathe his weakness, his wasting of his lofty position in dancing to the tune of the Grandchildren of Hitler's Financier.

And I cannot help but think that had he been a Rebbe of a small Jewish community in Germany in 1935, he would have counseled patience and caution, despite that being the exact opposite of what was required then.

And is required now.

[elcondor]

38. No--but it has nothing to do with his religion

I'm in the process of converting--so I'm not techinically a Jew yet, but I'd like to offer my opinion. I defend Lieberman whenever I can not because he's Jewish (nor do I agree with all of his votes) but because I really believe that he isn't a Republican/Republican-lite. I would guess that at least 75% of the critisims of Lieberman here aren't anti-Jewish driven. But one has to wonder why, when Lieberman votes the same way as other candidates, he is the only one critized for them?

But why is this question even being posed? Lieberman, in a field of nine, probably isn't going to excite enough people to get the nomination--so what's this fixation? Can't we all just agree to let everyone support who they want in the primaries (and not insult members or make them feel unwelcome just because they support a certain candidate) and we'll all unite behind the eventual nominee--no matter who he or she is? Am I just being too naive/idealistic to believe that at a place called DEMOCRATICunderground we shouldn't feel the need to bash Democrats for no good reason? (Zell Miller notwithstanding. ;-) ) I'll get off my soapbox now . . .

[11cents]

39. What "Lieberman apologists"

>but for some reason the Lieberman apologists keep saying his religion
>is why he gets so much bashing here.

What "Lieberman apologists?" I think you can search DU and similar boards for a long time without finding a single pro-Lieberman post. Nor is it the case that criticism of or even expressions of hatred for Lieberman are attacked as antisemitic, unless they really *are* couched in antisemitic terms -- e.g., assuming that he's in the Likud's pocket merely because he's Jewish. (In point of fact, his record isn't more pro-Israeli-hardline than, say, Al Gore's.)

This is really all a red herring.

[StandWatie]

41. Yeah, Bob Graham makes Joe look like Yassir Arafat

some people are stupid and spout off about issues they don't know much about :shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

43. There are two smears used by the Lieberman apologists

One smear is that those of us that oppose Lieberman pile on him more than we do on other candidates holding similar views.

This is a foolish statement. Lieberman is a highly visible candidate and whenever he makes a speech, or makes a comment, it always gets posted in DU. We DUers always respond to the thread posted. Now, if you have 10 Lieberman threads on his views on the Iraq war vote, and only one Kerry thread, you will get 10 times more comments on Lieberman than you would on Kerry. In addition to that, Kerry does not use the visceral conservative language that Lieberman seems to enjoy using whenever he speaks of liberals and liberalism. It should not come as a surprise that Lieberman would get roasted on a liberal board like DU. What can you expect when Lieberman sounds like Bill Bennett or George Bush on several key issues?

The most vicious smear is that we oppose Lieberman because he is a religious Jew. This is BULLSHIT and it is also ROVIAN language because it makes the rightwing assumption that only conservatives are truly religious. This argument, which is often employed by non-Jewish Lieberman apologists, is a smear in that its subtext is saying that only the Orthodox like Lieberman are the real religious Jews, and all other Jews are not real Jews. This is a smear against 90% of all Jews in the world, many of whom (including yours truly) are observant Jews.

The Christian equivalent of this smear is to say that the only religious Christians are those that are members of the Assemblies of God denomination or donate money to Pat Robertson's 700 Club!

So much for the religion issue.

A new argument that Lieberman defenders have started to use recently is the one about Lieberman having been in Mississippi in 1964 with the civil rights marches. The Lieberman defenders will point to this undisputed fact and then ask how come the other Democratic candidates did not go to Mississippi as Lieberman did.

This argument is ludicrous on its face, here is why:

Holy Joe was born in 1942, and he went to Mississippi after his graduation from Yale. Lieberman was 22 years old!

Interestingly, Lieberman does not mention his Mississipi experience on the bio he has posted on his Senate website:

http://www.senate.gov/member/ct/lieberman/general/newsite/biography.cfm?lowsrc=true

Howard Dean was born in 1948. Dean was 16 years old in 1964, a freshman in high school.

John Kerry was born in 1943. Kerry was 21 years old in 1964, a sophomore at Yale.

Dick Gephardt was born in 1941. Gep was 23 years old in 1964.

Dennis Kucinich was born in 1946. Dennis was 18 years old in 1964.

John Edwards was born in 1953. Edwards was 11 years old in 1964.

Bob Graham was born in 1936. Graham was 28 years old in 1964.

It seems to me that the only two candidates old enough to have been involved in the Civil Rights movement in 1964, as Joe Lieberman was, are Dick Gephardt and Bob Graham.

[Forkboy]

44. Now if only they'd listen

but you're most likely just going to end up on someone's ignore list...it's easier than thinking.

[Wonder]

58. LOL

says, "oh what's there to say?"

[sangha]

54. I cant believe it!!

You left out Sharpton

[IndianaGreen]

57. Sharpton's date of birth was not posted

and neither was Carol Mosley-Braun's on the website I used to find the ages of the candidates.

[robbedvoter]

45. Not hate, although I take personally his idiosyncrasies

kinda like you don't like drunks, but when your cousin is one, you REALLY don't like drunks!
I almost considered not voting Dem in 2000 when he started preaching - separation of church and state is essential to me. It only went worse from that point. That being said, it bothers me when he is sometimes criticized for 'his allegiances to Israel" or when he is equivalated with bush- a bit over the top - the worst dem is better than the best GOP (I guess he really needs Biden in the race).
I believe that ultimately his role in the race will prove useful - as he'll be pathetically ejected, the entire DLC doctrine will be ostensibly discredited.

[Fozzledick]

47. He's a schmuck!

He has no respect for the first amendment. His attempts to pander to conservatives by allowing government recognition and support for religion just plays into the hands of the fundamendalists who want to "Christianize" America .:shrug:

[Wonder]

59. and WOW didn't he get booooooo'ed on vouchers!

now if that didn't give his far right reaching self away, I don't know what else would. I loved the way he responded to the boo's too. I paraphase, "well I have to tell the truth here..." and then he justified why vouchers would be worth at least trying for 4-5 years. Something about relieving the middle class tax brackets of footing the bill on education reform. Right! Bite me!

[Lurking Dem]

53. I do not hate him.

I do not feel he is the right man at the right time but I do not hate him.

[Robbien]

60. Bringing up the Jewish question for Lieberman is a polital tacit

The same one they are using for bringing up the Catholic question for appointment of judges. Since the Conservative Right cannot defend their position, they attack their opponents by using the race card.