Is * a real fundie or is it all an act?

[ButterflyBlood]

Poll question: Is * a real fundie or is it all an act?

I vote for an act.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I voted for a real fundie, because even real fundies are actors for the

most part in my opinion. Judge not lest ye be judged we are told...and yet the fundies are best at that. :hi:

[Tina H]

3. Best at being judgemental?

looks like some DU posts are trying to win away that honor (see Reply #2). Should be an interesting contest.

[Delano]

5. It's not judgmental.

The poster is talking about fundie leaders, not Christians, and there's a big difference. In my life, I've yet to meet a fundamentalist who didn't fit that description, and I'll add to the list the fact that they are totally unable to keep their stinking religion to themselves.

[Tina H]

6. I am not saying your post is incorrect

but replies #2 and #5 are both judgmental. That should be beyond dispute. Maybe this kind of judgmental-ness is productive, rather than counterproductive. I hope so anyway.

[Delano]

13. Show me a fundamentalist who...

...DOESN'T believe that all gays, all jews, all who have not "accepted Christ as their savior"
and repented aregoing to hell, and I will take it all back. Show me a fundamentalist who will support the separation of church and state, includding keeping religious talismans out of public courthouses (ten commandments flap) and I will take it back. I've yet to see any evidence that there are fundies or evangelicals who think this way.

I't only judgmental inasmuch as saying "members of the KKK are racist" is judgmental.

[Tina H]

18. so the real issue here isn't really judgmental-ness to you?

As I understand you:

Judgmentalness is fine if the judgments are correct and/or the people being judged are sufficiently evil

Judgmentalness is a problem when the judgments are incorrect or being applied to people who are basically good folks.

Makes sense to me, although I personally fall more into line with Ms. Grumpy's post #9 or the following ATA thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=120x17223

[El Supremo]

20. Please don't include all Evangelicals.

Evangelists, by definition, just preach the Gospel and try to get converts. They believe in the authority of the Bible but not necessarily its literal interpretation. Even John Calvin was not that much of a fundamentalist. My church talks about evangelism, but we do not do very much.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

26. Trivializing assault?

Evangelists, by definition, “just preach the Gospel…try to get converts” and, in my experience, feel scripture gives them license to commit acts of aggression on their hapless victims.

Yes, El Supremo, evangelizing is assault, though I’ve yet to meet the evangelist able to recognize that fact. Therefore, Delano is justified in including them all in my opinion.

[leesa]

28. Believe whatever you want but get out of people's faces with it.

"Trying to get converts" is the problem...that, and archaic beliefs and laws from a diiferent millenia subject to any kind of interpretation one wishes to use to justify whatever one wants to do good or bad.

[Design8edGrouch]

49. Evangelism isn't the problem

However, we American Christians have botched it badly. Christianity is growing and thriving all over the world. And when it's done right, it transforms peoples lives and that in turn transforms societies. You see our approach is wrong. Have you ever been to a restaurant where the food was great, the service was wonderful, the decor was beautiful? Did you have the desire to tell someone else about your fine dining experience? It's the same for Christianity at its best. But just as you would have to respect the person's decision to not try that fabulous restaurant--a Christian must also respect the decision to not believe. We don't.

[drfemoe]

41. Obviously

*fundies* / *evangelicals* don't have a problem with taking over the power of what is supposed to be a free, democratic society!!
Just look at whoosh* .. just look at who supports him!! Reap as you sow .. "Jesus" didn't make that up. It's a natural Law.

If you're concerned, perhaps you can convince the Religious Leaders to keep their noses out of the GOVERNMENT
(of/by/for The People - not just *evangelicals*).

[riverwalker]

40. big difference

The "judgements" OF the fundies lead to lots of dead people. They have had free reign for 3 years to put their beliefs into practice and now we have the results: lots and lots of dead people. That is not a judgement, that is a fact.
The judgements ABOUT the fundies: Lots of dead people is bad, and these people are nuts.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. I am a hypocritical Catholic. I see that in myself. The fundies don't

see that in themselves for the most part. I claim no superiority. I am a mere mortal.

[Fridays Child]

2. Fundie leaders and Bush are all self-serving hypocrites who...

...willfully lie, manipulate, and coerce to realize their ambitions. Their hands may not be bloody but they're murderers all the same.

[Delano]

4. Sort of an act.

He probably believes in much of what he spews to a degree. He reminds me of the way children unquestioningly believe what they've been taught in Sunday school.

He seems like the type who never would really think to question those fundamentals he learned as a child, and he picks and chooses which tenets of the faith he wants to adhere to based on what reinforces his own image of himself as one of the "good guys", and also based on political expediency.

His handlers are master spinners, so there's no reason to think that they couldn't "spin" events and scripture to him so that he wouldn't feel bad about going against HIS OWN CHURCH by ordering an unprovoked attack on Iraq.

But much of it is an act. For the most part, I don't think spiritual matters really hold his atention that long. He want's to get back to his golf, or his game boy, or his little list of nicknames for people he's always working on...

[Sophree]

12. I agree with that.

He obviously doesn't follow Christ's teachings and there is an obvious political opportunism in his sucking up to the Christian Right.

As for his own person belief, I catch a glimmer of guilt on his face when he's forced to lie. I think he really does believe, and either way, it's between he and God.

The seeming worship of him by so many Christians is VERY troubling, however. So are *'s messianic delusions of grandeur.

[Must_B_Free]

7. He is, foremost, a politician

A politician's primary goal is to win. Everything else they project is strategy. So no, if the majority he were cating to were Islamic, he'd be a muslim.

[Tellurian]

24. new book title: Worse than Saddam!

Bush is a racist, sociopath, suffering from a severe personality disorder compounded by a loss of his own identity. The thoughts and words he speaks are scripted and therefore not part of him. He is a fractured persona made to live his father's dream. And the reason why He is revered as a hero by the inner circle enclaves because he has fulfilled their lifelong goal by taking them to the pinnacle of power.

Bush is uncomfortable with ordinary people because they see him nakedly for what he is-

Republicans intend to reign in perpetuity till the end of time. This is what we are up against, not just Bush, he's just the figurative symptomatology of a much more dangerous force, Totalitarianism. The drive to seize the human soul.

[Flubadubya]

25. Completely agree...

and if Bush gets even a second term... that's the end of democracy in the United States as we have known it for over 200 years. Through the efforts of the Bush cabal during their first four years, they have every mechanism, every tool, in place for a fast-track slide first into a theocracy, then into totalitarianism. We will be no different than the Taliban in Afghanistan once these people have their way.

[Tellurian]

30. I know...

We are literally fighting for our lives. Not an easy task by far, but we have to try. (like the Neverending Story). We may not have the manpower or the resources of the opposition but we have some of the best minds and hearts willing to give it their all to take back what has been pirated from us.

I have to give Sen. Kerry credit for stepping up to the plate knowing how rough this campaign is going to get. He's been in this position before fighting for his life. I appreciate the fact he is willing to take up the mantle to do this once again for us. I am committed 100% to do all I can to help the Senator undo the injustice that has been done to us, in the name of humanity.

As the old saying goes--This is our last chance and we better do it right the first time. "We only have one bite at the apple."

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

8. I've always felt it's a completely cynical put up job, like the "Texas"

thing (GWB is a rich preppie New Englander--he spent just enough time in Midland in his youth so as not to be saddled with the unshakeable Percy Preppington Connecticut voice like his Dad).

I'm convinced the Texas thing is fakery (like the 2 year old Crawford "ranch"), but I admit some doubt creeps in occasionally about the biblethumpy thing.

No matter whether real or fake. The results are just as bad for the US and the world. He must go.

[bluedeminredstate]

10. He's a fundie in his tiny, little mind

He doesn't live it, but he talks it and believes he's been called by God. Scary, since he couldn't give a shit about people - the poor, afflicted, occupied by powerful countries, etc.
If he lived the Gospels he wouldn't behave the way he does. The biggest example being his unending concern for the rich and powerful.
He's a fundie imposter, but I don't think he knows it.

:eyes:

[Touchdown]

11. Bush* is a dry drunk.

Which means he has an addictive personality to begin with. Dry drunks always dive head first into everything they do, or believe. Nothing can be done in moderation for the hopelessly addicted. Witness the insistence on "moral clarity" on foreign policy, the act of never apoligizing for anything he does, the simple black/white world view that takes all those irritation dillemas ot of the picture and makes an easy cowboy choice.

Listen to Pentecostals sometime. You will find a host of them who Jesus saved from alcohol, drugs, prostituition, homosexuality, food, and a host of other addictions, and now they can't shut up about Jesus. Religion is Chimpy's new drink. He just replaced one addiction with another.

[Sophree]

14. I disagree.

He's a drunk, drunk.

[El Supremo]

16. I agree.

But the relationship is a two way street. The fundamentalists are taking advantage of his ignorance just as much as he is of their votes. He lets them dictate policy to him just as much as he allows Cheney and the other neo-cons to control him. I think subconsciously (if he even has a conscience) he knows that he is in way over his head. But he likes playing the part of a puppet.

[LeahMira]

32. How true!

Religion is Chimpy's new drink. He just replaced one addiction with another.

I think you are right, but I think there's more than one addiction at work here.

They say that drugs make you feel good... like everyone loves you and you are brilliant. Same with the booze. Now I think he feels good and thinks everybody worthwhile loves him and he is brilliant because of his conversion and his religious life.

So, sure we all like to be loved and feel competent and all, but what is it that makes someone NEED to feel that way and NEED to feel better than all other people?

Maybe it's a way of lying even to himself.

[trof]

15. After seeing Frontline, I do believe he is sincere.

And that scares me even worse.

[markomalley]

17. There is no question that he is a real one...and that should scare you...

...he believes that what he is doing is the "right thing" to do. As such, he will never reform himself nor will he ever question the implications of his actions. He will only get more extreme as he goes on.

[Ezlivin]

19. As an Ex-fundamentalist...

...I say he's sincere.

It's easy to spot that vacant look in the eyes, the look you get when all the rationality has been pounded out of your mind.

He makes Nancy Reagan's dabbling with astrology seem positively quaint.

[Ladyhawk]

43. As an ex-fundamentalist, I agree with you.

Fundies will cheerfully do evil in the name of their religion.

One of my favorite all-time quotes:

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."-- Carey Goldberg. "Why Are We Here?" International Herald Tribune, Paris ed., no. 36,125; Monday, Apr. 26, 1999; p. 10.

I think Bush was evil before he became religious. That makes it all the scarier. I'm even scared of the fundy friends I have now. What will they do when they have even more power?

[Design8edGrouch]

50. My system must be down

I keep clicking on that yes but the bush administration just won't delete

[librechik]

21. he's real and just like the rest of them bullying bastards

with holier-than-thou attitudes and gruesome secret lives.

[Flubadubya]

22. Yes and no....

He is sincere in so far as a tiny mind and a cold heart can be.

Beyond that, his "conversion" and "born-again" status is quite useful to him politically, and that's really all that counts as far as he is concerned. The man hates democracy, yet has to lead as though he loves it. How does he square all that in his mind?

He leads a democratic government yet yearns for totalitarianism. The best thing he can do is do the best with what he's got. Take this "evangelical fervor" that at least half of the country's population clings to... plus the power that you wield as President of the United States, and you are on your way to realizing you dream. The man is in the process of subverting our country as a democracy.

His dream that "It would be easier if this were a dictatorship, and I'm the dictator" is no fanciful jest. He's deadly serious and fully intends to see the plan out.

[proud patriot]

23. It's an act

This was his assignment back when his daddy
was running for president .

In fact I think that's his only job .
To infiltrate , and then to lead it
with Twisting the word of Jesus , to
serve for his political gain .

He is a CULT Leader , and those who
follow him are brainwashed CULT Members .

bush uses very similar techniques as those
of other Cults IMHO.

[5thGenDemocrat]

27. Gotta go with Matthew 7:1 on this one

"Judge not lest ye be judged."
John
I believe Dopey is a total washout as a pre-, pres--, chief executive and I CAN'T WAIT to vote against him in November -- but I don't feel it's my place to judge his relationship with God.

[MrSlayer]

29. He's faking, There isn't an honest bone in his body.

He's completely amoral.

[drumwolf]

31. i think he's a real fundie in the sense that...

...he's no more of a phony than most fundies are.

I'm convinced that many RW fundies (not to be confused with Christians) don't use Christ's teachings as a genuine moral code so much as a shield to cover up their own venal, bigoted agenda and grip on power.

[Ladyhawk]

44. This is true, but fundies really believe the shit they spew.

Having grown up fundy, I know these things. Bush is the real deal. He isn't playing and that makes it even more scary.

[Randers]

33. I think he may have been a fundie

But that now he is being used/acting to achieve the goals of others.

[deacon]

34. He's for real, he is also a for real neocon

Fundies look down on others that don't see things as they do. Hell, he appointed aschroft too. These two certainly go together. Yes, they are both fundies.

[doni_georgia]

35. He's a real one - they're all hypocrites!

He's no different than Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell. They all speak out of both sides of their mouths and their asses at the same time. They all want to dictate to everyone else moral behavior, but are totally amoral in their own conduct.

[ldf]

36. it's all an act

sorry, but a real fundie wouldn't say "fuck saddam, he's going down".

bush is a fraud.

[Ladyhawk]

45. Sure he would. Fundies are the most hypocritical group of people...

...I've ever known. And I've known a lot of them.

[drumwolf]

46. don't confuse fundies with christians

A real CHRISTIAN wouldn't say "Fuck Saddam, he's going down."

A real FUNDIE would.

[usregimechange]

37. Why the * in place of his name?

[robbedvoter]

39. Historical perspective. Also, Trudeau's strip.

[drumwolf]

47. two reasons:

First of all, he wasn't legitimately elected, so to to reflect that little footnote, he gets an asterisk next to his name in the list of US presidents in the history books. It's the same as when Roger Maris had a * next to his home-run record listing in the baseball history books, because he'd set the record over a 162-game span instead of the 154 games that Babe Ruth, the previous record-holder, played.

And second, the * kind of resembles an asshole, which is what Bush is.

[robbedvoter]

38. Only 2 things are read about *: greed and desire to kill, seek revenge

on his many enemies. Everything else is just means to those two.

[drfemoe]

42. I think he wants a New World Order

And the NWO plotters think the story people interpret into the bible will help them get there.

I'm starting to get the impression that the gods will laugh last. Perversion cannot prevail. It's unnatural.

[Disturbed]

48. A dry drunk .

I go with that plus he has latched onto the fundie rationalizations
which he now actually believes and it bolsters his agenda. Without 911 Attack he would be nothing right now. Most of the others in Bushco are sociopathetic profiteers.