Do Kucinich supporters know that he was rabid pro-life until 6 months ago?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-carney110102.asp

During his first three terms in Congress, Kucinich compiled a consistently pro-life voting record, earning a 95-percent rating from the National Right to Life Committee in 2000. "He absolutely believes in the sanctity of life and that life begins at conception," Kucinich's spokeswoman explained last year.

[TheBigGuy]

You obviously have not been paying attention..

...or are new to DU.

There where beucoup threads here about how Kucinich was pro-life, and then even more threads about how he couldnt be trusted due to his waffling on the issue.

For awhile nearly ever Kucinich thread or post was hijacked by Deanyboppers attacking Kucinich on the abortion issue.

So I dont know what your point is by parenting this thread. I put it down to ignorance on your part to raise an issue that has been thoroughly dissected here at DU, multiple times.

At least I hope it is ignorance on your part.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

9. I really had no idea.

[diamondsoul]

14. Then you haven't-

been paying much attention to Kucinich himself because he's been completely up-front and forthright about the change. And for the record, the earliest recorded votes I found of his change in positions were over a year ago, March 2002.

[Wonder]

52. oh yes based on that rationale

I guess we should all choose to forgive bush in two years time if he so chooses to recant and just vote him in again.

perhaps I feel this way because I haven't been paying attention either... wow... I guess so many died recently and were reborn and recarnated here in DU as oh so many little gods...

sorry I will take my rant off line... this is not really personal to you.

the main portion of my rant was made to thorsteinVelben and then some wonder why the world is so fucked up.

[Wonder]

49. neither did I. I just got here in July and this is the first time

I have heard this... it is definitely a deal breaker (not that I was seriously considering him as a contender -- but I have not nix any but two candidates) and would be interested to know is it true or disinformation... but considering people seem to be cranky on DU today... forget it I will do my own research on the topic.

sheesh what a lot of cranking on the board today... very sophormic stuff... going on today... I thought I would leave the whole going no where sexist debate only to find cranky rudeness on this thread as well... not you thorsteinVeblen... I guess I just felt safe enought to do this rant to you...

that ends my participation on DU for today... what is it a full moon or something... I have been participating almost anonymously since I arrived... and then all of a sudden today I was first outwardly and falsely accused of being an antisemite ... than it was implied because I wasn't wholeheartedly pro dean that that must mean I was pro bush...

whatever... no answer is required TV -- I will do a googles less wear and tear on my sensibilities.

[JohnKleeb]

1. I disagreed with that but he was consistent at least

He opposed the death penalty and unjust wars as well. BTW I dont find this bashing but when people do the same with Dean or others it is called bashing.

[TheBigGuy]

2. Frankly im fed up with the Dean crowd.

They all can go to hell as far as Im concerned.

[JohnKleeb]

3. wow!

BigGuy it's not all of them thank god, but some stuff does bother me like they were once where we were, by we Kucinich supporters, then momentum came, I hope momentum comes to Dennis.

[carrowsboy]

5. gee thanks

I've never said anything against Kucinich or you, but your wishing me to hell sure is a mature thing to say.

You'd be perfect for the Bush Corps.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

69. Ouch. That was uncalled for.

Don't know if I'm part of "the Dean crowd," but I believe I've always been open to other candidate's positions. Pretty blanket statement there, Big Guy.

[wuushew]

I think the words "6 months ago" and "rabid" are incorrect

What I want to know why Kucinich voted the way he did regarding flag burning. If he did that out of the wishes of his congressional district than there is a serious lack of liberalism in his district. Shame on them.

[JohnKleeb]

11. someone can explain

Maybe its hard for us to understand, me too, I cant explain it well, there are some people who can explain better, but DK's constiuents arent liberals really, they are blue collar dems mostly who arent big time liberals, good people no doubt.

[diamondsoul]

13. Ok forgive me for this but

WHY in the HELL is everyone so worried about this blasted flag-burning vote??

Come off it people, aren't there a LOT more pressing issues to worry about than a damned symbol here and whether you have the freedom to set the stupid thing on fire fer cripes sake?

No offense meant and the rant isn't personally directed, I just needed to get it off my chest. Thanks. :D

[LoZoccolo]

20. It's a constitution thing...

...so it is a big deal. It's almost a litmus test in my book.

[wuushew]

22. I agree

The 1st Ammendment is the key to protecting all the other constitutional freedoms, not the 2nd Ammendment as the NRA would have you believe.

[diamondsoul]

29. I know, and I do understand the point

of not wanting civil liberties attacked. It's just that whether or not it's legal to burn the flag really doesn't matter a whit to me. I'm a lot more concered with the human condition in the US than the Constitutional right to burn a flag. I just can't seem to get worked up about it....

But you know something? DK is guest blogging at http://lessig.org/blog/
starting tomorrow. I think I'll pass that around and suggest those of you who are worried about it come over and ask the man. :) Maybe it was one of those things that seemed like the right vote at the time but on reflection was a mistake.

[Tinoire]

25. I've never tackled this one before and will try to answer it simply

answer it simply from the heart, from having seen Dennis in person.

As a 20 year vet, frankly I could care less if people use the flag as toilet paper and don't get riled up about the issue one way or another because to me it's just a ridiculous, manipulative piece of cloth that both the anti and pro FBA people are making too much of an issue over.

That said. It is still the flag of this country. A flag that was supposed to stand for good and decency. A flag for which many, whether right or wrong, went and shed their blood when asked. It used to be a flag that was respected and admired by down-trodden people all over the world who believed the words "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. ... "

Kucinich is the son of a poor family that spent many lights sleeping in their car and he loves his country and its people. He also loves the flag and all it was supposed to stand for. What he wants to do is restore the honor and dignity of that flag.

The second time I saw Kucinich was in a room full of REAL patriots- it was at the Veterans for Peace Conference in San Francisco Friday & Saturday.

The room was packed with men like S Brian Wilson, a Vietnam veteran who in 1987 had his legs cut off at Concord, California, when he lay down in front of a train to protest a Naval train carrying weapons headed for Central America.

Kate Berrigan, the daughter of Father Berrigan

Rachel Corrie's parents Craig and Cindy Corrie

Representatives from Military Families Speak out

and hundreds of vets, disabled vets who lost a limb or part of their life for that flag.

And they, they too, would like to see that flag honored.

In that light is how you look at Kucinichs vote of the FBA.

Blind rage is not an answer. The blind rage to destroy out of anger and pain are not the answer. The answer is to fix the problem and on that I agree with him 100%.

Peace

[diamondsoul]

30. Tin, this is getting extremely eerie

I had no idea there were so many of us who think so similarly! Your response is almost a duplicate of the answer I gave at the volunteer bbs. I started to repeat it but then I thought well HELL, DK is doing the Lessig blog all week and they are all about civil liberties and artistic expression. It's the perfect place to ask about this vote if it troubles them so much.

[Tinoire]

31. lol!

and thanks for that tip about the Lessig blog! I am so glad so many of us think like this. I was so heartened to see that all those Vets for Peace thought similarly. You will NOT believe how much Kucinich support there was at that conference. They don't even want to hear about any other candidates! And we're talking about real burly men- REAL MEN, REAL HEROES!

Peace :)

On edit: It's a pleasure to have you here. Welcome to DU :toast: and thank you for sharing the passion! I hope we meet one day (you never know!)

[JohnKleeb]

32. thats great

Maybe they will endorse him :). I saw them on CSPAN one day, and all I have to say I was impressed. Kucinich isnt a vet, but his father and some of his brothers were. I dont think he served because of a heart problem and or he wasnt drafted, I think he has a murmur, but my grandfather, still undecided but I wanna push Kucinich for him, hes a retired Army Sgt, Korean War, and a retired bricklayer, and a firm opponent of the war, so naturally hes big on labor and stuff. Of course men will support Kucinich, I as a guy am sick of being told that conservatism is manly and liberalism is femeninte, well you know what liberalism is humane and thats what I love about it. I would love to see Kucinich get these fine people, Vets for Peace, their endorsement.

[Tinoire]

43. I don't know if they can officially

endorse him since they're non-profit but the support is definitely there. It was almost as if the other candidates didn't exist for them.

[JohnKleeb]

44. great

Sick of being told that hes not progressive because of those two issues and I disagreed with him even, theres a lot I didnt like about Al Gore and I still believe him to be progressive.

[Tinoire]

54. John Kleeb-

I'll post a thread in GD tonight or tomorrow about the Vets for Peace Conference. In the meantime wanted you to know I picked up some Dennis Paraphernalia for you (nothing much- bumper sticker, pin, sticker, literature). Please PM me your address so I can mail to you.

Peace :)

[gully]

34. sorry but...blah, blah, blah

Dennis has every right to his opinion on the flag.

A 'progressive' respects my right to do with the flag as I wish.

Don't call Dennis Kucinich a progressive b/c he's a dreamer at best.

[JohnKleeb]

37. so whats un progressive about wanting to repeal the patriot act

He's gonna be introducing legislation to repeal it in September. So on two issues Kucinich isnt or wasnt progressive, we cant be 100% liberal you know.

[Tinoire]

51. Like I said

Wipe your ass with it if you wish. The American people have already wiped their ass with the blood of every single man who died in America's wars so why would this be any different? But out of respect for men like S. Brian Wilson who lost both legs for that stupid flag, I wish you wouldn't, as does Dennis Kucinich.

Our flag currently represents "the blood and bones of people all over the globe who have been dehumanized, then exterminated by its imperialism"; it's "a symbol that represents a monstrous lie maintained by excessive, deadly force."

If that is why you want to burn it, by all means- go ahead but be prepared to pay the price for disrespecting, not a ridiculous piece of cloth, but the memory of all the innocent people who died for it and for disrespecting what that flag is supposed to represent.

Rather than focusing on your right to burn it, don't you think it would be a lot more constructive to focus on what part you can play in fixing it? What part you can play in making reparations to all the people around the world who were kidnapped, enslaved, napalmed, exploited? They could give a rat's ass if you burn that flag or not- but that's a stupid, hollow, empty, meaningless, gesture disrespectful to every single vet wobbling around homeless, limbless, armless, hungry, mentally unhinged in a country that would rather pump more money into the war machine than to build a Department of Peace.

So yeah, I'll respect your right to burn it or shit on it but I won't rush to defend you when the police haul your angry ass away. I have too much respect for the men who went when they were called and came back broken. The only ones I would defend to the death are those who have earned the right to burn it- those who bled for it. They don't need your assistance in doing that; nor do the poor, nor do the oppressed- what they need from you is something more meaningful like voting in a candidate who will put an end to all the reasons for which they were exploited.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Bob Kerrey

who knows a thing or two about patriotism voted against the Flag Burning Amendment at great political risk. Nebraska ain't Massachussetts.

He said when he was fighting in Nam he wasn't fighting for the flag ;he was fighting for the guy next to him.

[JohnKleeb]

40. Thats good of Kerrey Ive always respected the man

I agree with him on the flag burning thing more than I do Kucinich. I wholeheartily disagree with him on it, yet he fits my views more than any other candiate.

[JackieO]

4. Rabid?

Projecting much, TV?

LMAO

[ThorsteinVeblen]

8. Maybe that was a loaded word

But I kind of consider "life begins at conception" and a 95% rating from the National Right to Life Committee pretty radical.

I just found out today and am actually really surprised.

[plurality]

I believe life begins at conception and..

am pro-choice. Do you think only 'pro-life' people can hold this position?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

17. Well, if life begins at conception

than abortion is murder. Especially consider technologies that allow a zygote to survive outside the mother.

[plurality]

23. I believe that...

but I also recognize that not everyone else does. I personally am against abortion, but recognize that it's still someones personal choice, which means while I don't agree with it, I don't think it should be outlawed. I believe that fits DK's position to a tee.

He's stated that while he had a pro-life view before, he still didn't think criminalization was the way to go, and that when he recognized that that's where many Congressional pro-lifers were headed, it played a part in his change of mind.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

26. Pro-Life means criminalization

What other "pro-life" is there.

I am "pro-life" then. I think abortion is a horrible thing. I think we should do whatever we can to prevent them. I think sometimes abortion can be used immorally.

But the hell if I think the U.S. government or a state judge is qualified to make a decision in what cases it is moral or immoral or legal or illegal.

That decision must be left to the mother.

[JohnKleeb]

27. not really

My more religious family members are pro life yet they dont want to criminalize it, these people wont even think of bolting the party because of abortion, Kucinich has said he wants to reduce abortion through sex ed and birth control not criminalization, and I dont see any problem with that, now some rabid pro lifers I know did, and my grandparents and others did not.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

45. You are not using "Pro-Life" in the way it is normally used

http://www.nrlc.org/Missionstatement.htm

"The ultimate goal of the National Right to Life Committee is to restore legal protection to innocent human life. The primary interest of the National Right to Life Committee and its members has been the abortion controversy; however, it is also concerned with related matters of medical ethics which relate to the right to life issues of euthanasia and infanticide. The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense."

This organization gave Dennis Kucinich a 95% rating in 2000.

[JohnKleeb]

48. Can I say this?

I strongly disagreed with Kucinich's past views on abortion but imho he has done much to make it up. Also imo and dealing with anti abortion family members NRLC isnt right on the abortion arguement, and that reducing abortion not banning is the goal. You cant judge a group on the personal views of people. I do disagree with his past views but imo again I think he has made up for it, by being against the death penalty, and against past wars.

[bpilgrim]

6. yep, but he has said he will up hold the laws of the land

thats good enough for me, i trust the man and he passes the litmus test on this issue as well as MANY others.

shoot, my mom is 'anti abortion' but i still love her and respect her pov she is much more concerned about SS, MediCare, permanant war, the loss of liberties, etc...

this is a lame attempt to disrupt his message, imho.

:hi:

peace

[JohnKleeb]

16. sounds like my grandma

She doesnt wanna ban RoeVWade but she doesnt like the idea, and she shares your mom's concerns too, and not to mention she and my grandpa opposed this war as good as anyone did.

[plurality]

7. Do Dean supporters know Dean was pro-raising-the-retirement-age until

Kucinich called him out on it at the AFL-CIO and he had a change of heart the next day?

[ThorsteinVeblen]

12. I do know that.

[gully]

33. Do Kucinich supporters know what 'hypocrisy' is?

Dean is a liar b/c he changed his position on the retirement age. And, Kucinich 'evolved' when he changed his position on choice. :boring:

BTW, an anti-choice voting record does not a 'progressive' make...

[JohnKleeb]

35. Dean DENIED he had supported it at one time

Kucinich didnt say Dean supported raising the retirement age to 70 now but he did say he once supported it and Dean said that wasnt true.
Thats why we were upset. Actually on choice, he stopped voting on abortion related bills so he could think about it, it was NOT the myth that one day he was pro life and the next he was pro choice. Also tell me whats progressive about Dean supporting the death penalty. I dont use that as a litmus test but anyone who opposes the death penalty earns my support other than someone who doesnt.

[Tinoire]

10. Once again I took your question to 2150 Feminists for Kucinich

and this is what I got. So I really must wonder... what is your obsession with smearing a candidate? Is it your fear that your whoever you're supporting isn't strong enough to make it unless you go destroy the other candidates?

I'd suggest that instead of repeating this tired line, you contact any of the 2150 feminists below and ask them just how delusional they are.

FEMINISTS FOR KUCINICH


We are feminists who consider the Bush administration a danger to our country and the world, and see a regime change in 2004 as the highest political priority. Rather than waiting to hear what all the Democratic candidates have to say, then jumping on the bandwagon of the least offensive, we decided to make our own list of priorities and see who agrees with us. Here's our list:

We want a candidate who will stop the war on the poor. Though an estimated 20 -29 percent of Americans live in poverty, the Republicans’ new tax code penalizes the poor and rewards the rich. Women on welfare are forced into low-paid jobs, even in the absence of childcare. Food pantries can no longer meet the demand of the millions of the poor, both employed and unemployed. When anyone mentions these facts, the Republicans accuse them of inciting a "class war," but they are the ones who have started this war, whose victims are disproportionately women, children and people of color.

We want a candidate who stands for peace, respects international treaties and institutions such as the U.N. and the International Criminal Court, and tries to resolve problems through negotiation. We are horrified by the fact that our country started a war for no clear reason, on the basis of lies and distortions, in defiance of international law and world opinion, and without concern for the lives that would be lost. Far from protecting us from terrorism, such military adventures can only increase our vulnerability and feed the rage and ranks of those who seek to harm us.

We want a candidate who will defend the separation of church and state, and the individual rights guaranteed us by the Constitution. The Bush administration has instituted detention without trial; secret military tribunals; and hugely increased government surveillance of our citizens.

We want a candidate who opposes discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity, and who stands for women's reproductive rights and recognizes that these rights depend on universal health insurance. The right to choose means women are entitled to abortion, if that is their choice, and to all the social supports necessary to raise children, if that is their choice. The Bush administration is seeking to appoint judges who will undermine these rights.

We want a candidate who will address questions of global economic imbalance and stand up for the rights of immigrants. International financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, led by the U.S., have imposed “structural adjustment” policies that relentlessly increase the gulf between rich and poor countries -- driving many of the world's poor to come here, legally or illegally. We call for an end to the harassment of undocumented workers by the INS and the political persecution of immigrants of color--the round-ups and detentions. We are a "nation of immigrants" and should embrace this heritage.

We want a candidate who will challenge racism domestically and internationally; who understands that affirmative action is still needed and that our schools have been re-segregated; and who will take a stand against the Republican Party’s use of stereotypes to spread division and fear, from Reagan's "welfare queens" to today's demonized version of Islam.
Dennis Kucinich is the only candidate who not only agrees with all these points but has developed policies to support them: starting a cabinet-level Department of Peace; supporting unions and the right to organize; cutting the bloated military budget; restoring environmental regulations and launching a “Global Green Deal” to benefit developing countries; withdrawing from NAFTA and the WTO and challenging IMF/World Bank policies; repealing the “Patriot Act”; upholding Roe v. Wade; working for universal health insurance; and abolishing the racially and economically biased death penalty.

Because we feel that he comes closest to representing our priorities, we have decided to support Dennis Kucinich for President and hope you will join us by signing this statement. Of course this does not preclude our voting for whoever gets the nomination; this is about whom to support in the primaries. Molly Ivins has put it: Vote your heart in the primaries, vote your head in November. If Dennis wins enough hearts, there won't be any contradiction.

Original Signers:


Barbara Ehrenreich, a political essayist whose most recent book is Nickel and Dimed: Surviving in Low Wage America

Angela Gilliam, professor and scholar of Black feminist anthropology and international feminism

Ynestra King, a writer and activist specializing in environmental, feminist, and disability issues

Gail Lerner, an organizer in the global women's movement, who has worked with several United Nations agencies and international NGOs in the U.S. and abroad

Grace Paley, a writer and peace activist whose works include Enormous Changes at the Last Minute, Later That Same Day, and Just as I Thought

Rosalind Petchesky, an international feminist activist and Distinguished Professor of Political Science at Hunter College and the City University of New York

Digna Sanchez, a Latina community activist in New York, president of the Aspirante Alumni Fellowship

Meredith Tax, a novelist, essayist and international organizer of feminist writers, whose books include Rivington Street and Union Square



http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/feminists_4_kucinich/

[ThorsteinVeblen]

15. "what is your obsession with smearing a candidate?"

I have sworn not to smear any candidate.

[JohnKleeb]

18. I've seen you do it

maybe this was before your promise but I do recall, you showing a picture of DK and saying something to the degree does this look like a president.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

19. I have vowed not to do it anymore.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=15449

[JohnKleeb]

21. good for you then

Will you then in turn, because I dont consider this bashing what you did, tell your fellow Dean supporters, that people posting about the Social Security and Dean thing isnt bashing.

[Tinoire]

28. Good. In that case I apologize and thank you

Now... I can assure you, from having seen it with my own eyes, that the most die-hard feminists who refuse to budge on this issue, are the first ones out there defening Kucinich because they have grilled him over it and are satisfied with the evolution.

How do I know this, because while campaigning for him this week-end, whenever that issue came up, I would answer the question the best I could and then send out one of the militant feminists :) to answer it in more depth. Never once failed :) Just do a google. You'll find plenty from them out there.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

24. yes and i still supported him back then....1 issue i didn't agree with him

but 99% of all the others i could live with....he still personally doesn't agree with abortion...and neither do i....but that simply means i would not choose abortion for me...but, i could not and would not force my choice on others...it is personal...and that is kucinich's view...always was...he never thought to change any laws regarding abortion

[gully]

36. better check his voting record...

Anti choice the whole way through. Bush couldn't have done a better job of voting for him.

I like Dennis, but I resent the 'he's Paul Wellstone sh$$... Or, he's the only 'true' progressive crud.

Frankly, it's nauseating not to mention un-true. :puke:

Represent Dennis Kucinich as a moderate, because that's what he is.

[JohnKleeb]

38. I wouldnt call him the next Wellstone to be fair

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=BC032003#Abortion
2003 On the votes that the National Right to Life Committee considered to be the most important in the first half of the 108th Congress, Representative Kucinich voted their preferred position 40 percent of the time.
anti choice all the way you say look at that. I resent hearing Dean is the next JFK or Clinton. He's more moderate on two issues, but other than that progresive, how does that make him a moderate.

[AnAmerican]

47. ROFL

DK a moderate?? That statement is ludicrous. Dennis is a liberal, and damn proud of it. His decision to support a woman's right to choose while being personally pro-life is actually one of the reasons I support him so much. It shows a maturity, a wisdom on the subject that is sadly lacking in most political discourse these days. He takes a realistic view of a much politicized issue.

He does the same with Palestine/Isreal.

His efforts are geared toward establishing a rational discussion of the issues, healing the divide between those who can only see one side.

And in answer to your reaction to the Paul Wellstone comparisons. Dennis himself has never said he is the next paul Wellstone. His supporters have made that comparison, and with good reason.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

58. gully did you take a wrong turn back at that fork in the road?

[blm]

42. Dean was a rabid DLCer until 7 months ago

and YOU trust him implicitly but no one else. Evan Bayh's wife is going to stand in as First Lady, and Evan Bayh is the DLC personified, as is Howard Dean.

Funny how we can view things differently, eh?

[gully]

60. Nope don't trust any politician 'implicitly'...

Dean included. I also don't compare Dean to JFK ... or anyone else for that matter. I'm a realist and so is Dean thus the support...


Dennis's voting record on abortion below;
Voted YES on banning human cloning, including medical research. (Jul 2001)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)

I don't disagree with all of his positions, but I would not call him the 'only true progressive' because it's BS.

http://issues2002.org/Dennis_Kucinich.htm#Abortion

[JohnKleeb]

64. I dont think that, I think Kerry is a progressive too

At least you are honest about that.

[leftofthedial]

46. and what is his position now?

[JohnKleeb]

50. he's pro choice

maybe not like I am. 2003
On the votes that the National Right to Life Committee considered to be the most important in the first half of the 108th Congress, Representative Kucinich voted their preferred position 40 percent of the time.
He's not perfectly pro choice yet it seems hes not radically against abortion.

[Iluvleiberman]

53. Wow! He's not getting my vote then

He's waffling on the right to choose/life. NOT GOOD.

[diamondsoul]

55. Try reading the whole thread

He did NOT "waffle" on the issue. He took some time to reconsider his position AFTER speaking to hundreds of women about the subject and learning a few things.:eyes:

[Iluvleiberman]

56. Doesn't matter- he was pro-life once so he...

could easliy sign a partial birth abortion ban and not think twice.

[AnAmerican]

57. I think he has made it clear....

He will uphold a woman's right to choose.

At the same time he will strive to make abortion as rare as possbile through education, the institution of a living wage, an other measures.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

[Iluvleiberman]

59. You can uphold a right to choose and restrict it just like

you can uphold a right to guns and ban machine guns.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

61. hey , you love lieberman...nuff said

:puke:

[buddhamama]

62. yes, i knew

and still respected/supported him.
wanna' know why? because unlike the repubs DK actually did care to do something about helping people. he was not for outlawing abortions and then cutting social spending,education,etc,etc.

i can respect that because he was/is not a hypocrit.

[gully]

63. I think thats an interesting point...

But, I don't think you can call him the 'only true progressive' ... Or, compare him to Wellstone, as they had different positions on the issues.

I still find this position deeply troubling.

Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)

I don't require perfection from 'my' candidate, but I don't like the implication that Dennis IS perfection ...

[gully]

65. By the way...Kerry is more 'progressive' then Kucinich

http://www.globalstewards.org/democrats.htm#env

If we actually examine the record. Kerry is actually more 'progressive' then Kucinich. And, BTW, as I said, I'm a
Dean supporter.

[buddhamama]

67. nope. on that we'll definitely disagree

while i don't mind Kerry
he is not more progressive than Kucinich.
DK is co-chair of the Progressive Caucus
he didn't get there on his looks.

[buddhamama]

68. btw,gully

your link is misleading
the scorecard that appears only represents the scores on the enviroment, not the entire candidate. look at labor--Kucinich scores higher than Kerry.

[buddhamama]

66. i'm not trying to argue that he is perfection

but with all things i do look at the broader picture.

i did not like his being anti-choice or his voting record on the issue but,
Wellstone and i disagreed at times too.