School Based Webcams - Good Idea?

[donco6]

Schools are beginning to install webcams in classrooms - ostensibly to deter crime and identify troublemakers. As many teachers will tell you, classroom discipline is one of the biggest problems confronting them today - and a large part of it is convincing parents that their "Johnny" isn't the little angel they think he is.

But obviously, there are privacy concerns. Digital records could be used to incriminate teachers for stepping outside the curriculum. Hackers could access the network to spy on students or teachers.

What do you think? Webcams in classrooms - good idea or not?

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20030811/5396054s.htm

[chaska]

1. My first thought....

was that it's awfully good training, or rather conditioning, for a future where cameras will watch our ev-er-y move, ev-er-y-where. Pretty much an inevitability, I'm afraid. Where there is money to be made....

[Exultant Democracy]

7. Exactly,

Privacy is really a thing of the past. It sucks but it is too late. Right now wireless phones with cameras are easily accessible to a large portion of our population. Soon enough we will have easy accesses to wireless communication devices that will be able to record every moment of our lives.
Let’s face it, most people are to vain not to wish for a full life documentary. (weBlogs will evolve into lifeLogs) People that don’t have their lifelog going at all times will be seen as untrustworthy and eventually the weight or society will make all but the most ardent individualist conform. I say let them put the cameras in the classrooms, if only to help the children become more comfortable with the inevitable.

[htuttle]

13. On the bright side...

If there's one thing students in school are good at, it's figuring out how to get away with things.

While it will condition students to get used to cameras watching them, it will also encourage them to develop behaviors to conceal things from the cameras when they want to get away with something.

Kind of like a 'Winston Smith' training course, perhaps. Considering the world they will probably grow up in, it could be very useful for them to start thinking about cameras watching them (and how to avoid them), etc... early on.

That's not a very bright bright-side, but so it goes.

[SoCalDem]

2. Potential for both here..

Teachers who "deviate" from the "plan" and for kids who "act out".. The kids will find other ways, but the teachers are pretty much stuck with it..

My junior year American History teacher got suspended for showing us movies that his brother sent back from Viet Nam..

He said he needed for us to see this, since it would affect our lives or the lives of someone we loved.. This was 1966.. He was not wrong :(

[wtmusic]

3. Bad idea

What's a good idea? How about enough teachers to go around, meaning enough pupil supervision. How about enough salary so teachers will stick around for meetings, and put in the extra time to make their job easier and better.

Teachers are not babies and shouldn't be treated like them. Odd, that the person we place in charge of running a class and instilling responsibility is not given responsibility themselves.

[donco6]

8. OK, fair enough.

What would a teacher salary have to be to entice them to "stick around for meetings?"

Our teacher salaries (according to the association's schedule) run from $31,000 for 1st year to $69,000 for 15 year teachers. We'd much rather even it out and make the salaries less spread out, but the association refuses to even consider it during teacher negotiations.

So what should we do to encourage them to take part in strategic planning sessions, curriculum development meetings, professional community meetings, etc.?

[MissouriTeacher]

10. $31,000 is pretty high for a first year salary.

My wife will be a first year teacher this year starting at $26,000. I am a 5th year teacher still making $27,500 (gotta get that master's degree!).

[donco6]

17. Our schedule is not the highest, either.

Though the metro area posts the highest teacher salaries in the state.

[ugarte]

4. God knows many principals are salivating

at the prospect of locker room cams.

[Dob Bole]

5. We had cameras in the halls and parking lots in my school

but not in the classrooms. It's one thing to check whether someone is where they're supposed to be. It's entirely another to monitor student/teacher behavior all day.

[donco6]

9. We have cameras aboard all buses.

The bus drivers love them. No longer is it their word against a student's when there's an incident on the bus. They simply roll the tape - and there's Johnny! - smacking that other kid on the head with a textbook. No more parent arguments, long drawn out appeals, etc. I haven't had to deal with an appeal in more than three years since we installed them.

[sexybomber]

14. "or how many hackers"

to be more precise. If I were still in high school, and they installed a camera in the girls locker room... oh, it would be hacked within ten minutes of going online.

[donco6]

15. That would be illegal.

Let's not make this a straw man argument. No one in their right mind would suggest cameras in locker rooms.

[Aaron]

6. Bad idea - treats symptoms not problems - (n/t)

[goobergunch]

11. Bad idea...

privacy should be respected, plus teachers should be able to teach how they want without the school administration looking over their shoulders constantly.

If they put those up at my school, then I'm bringing the duct tape.

[donco6]

12. Why?

I find your statement intriguing:

>>teachers should be able to teach how they want without the school administration looking over their shoulders constantly<<

Just suppose, the teachers were NOT teaching effectively. (In my experience, they often do not - that's why we have extensive staff development programs.) You're not saying that we should let ALL teachers "teach how they want." Are you? How do we know which ones are effective and which ones aren't? Test scores? No one likes that idea. Observation is the most effective means, but a principal can't observe enough to make a real difference. We hire mentors and coaches, but that takes funding and raises the student/teacher ratio.

I think classroom cameras could serve an important role in improving instruction and in reducing classroom management problems.

[goobergunch]

31. Teachers should not teach randomly however they want...

but it's very hard relax and teach effectively if somebody's constantly looking over one's shoulders.

[donco6]

32. True.

I can imagine it would be a bit disconcerting knowing someone could be watching you any second.

It would be hard to resist the urge to scratch under my arms like a monkey.

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Parents

Not all parents can take the day off and go and observe what their children are learning in a classroom. The webcam idea is a brilliant use of technology to aid parents in becoming involved in their children's education.

Any teacher who is afraid of what parents will learn via webcam probably shouldn't be teaching.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

16. i wanted to place webcam in my kids classroom but for different reason

teacher incompetence...my daughter who is overweight and in 5th grade was made to stand in front of the class along with a another girl who is skinny to be used as a discriptive writing lesson....then the students were made to read their discriptions orally...you can see where that went......my child was shattered! even though she is in the top 1% on national Terra Nova tests and a John Hopkins Talented Youth Scholar she now hates school....and this women is evil...i should sue the bitch!

[Muddleoftheroad]

19. And people wonder

Why some parents take their kids out of public school and place them either in private or home schools.

You are right, you should scream, yell, complain to your legislators, newspaper and, yes, sue.

[goddess40]

24. On a cause basis cameras should be used

I hope you filed a complaint. This teacher couldn't deny the problem as the kids all wrote about it.
My son gets bullied by students and some staff and I would love to have these cameras available, when a complaint is filed the cameras go up without a word to anyone involved in the complaint.
I believe that most teachers are good but like any profession there are bad apples, and it is easier to look the other way then to deal with the person causing the problem. Except they always seem to take the teachers word over the students, after all he's just a kid what does he know. Cameras would level the playing field.

[donco6]

28. We also had reports . . .

. . . of a teacher who hit children. It quickly grew into a "he said, she said" situation, with the teacher backed by the association and the parents "lawyered up." Administration was caught in the middle with no proof either way. So we ended up buying out her contract - which would have bought a lot of webcams!

[Brian Sweat]

20. This is a great idea

for pediphiles. This way, they can do their shopping on line too.

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. Pedophiles

Can already find a lot online. Webcams won't change that. Perhaps truly prosecuting the scumbags would get them out of circulation.

[donco6]

25. These are closed circuit systems.

They don't post to an outside server.

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. They should

It could be password protected. Failing that, parents should be able to request the right to view classes periodically. But I think it should be an ongoing usage.

[TahitiNut]

22. Absolutely not.

Singapore (where such surveillance is common) is not a model of a free society.

The presumption that individual behavior is something to be controlled through surveillance rather than an individual responsibility is an attitude that must not be promulgated in any kind of democratic society. The presumption that some record is necessary because we can't rely on people, even teachers, to tell the truth merely opens the floodgates to more deceit. When the fabric of trust is destroyed, no kind of civil society can long survive.

For many people whose primary reason for "virtuous" behavior is their fear of social consequences, such pervasive oversight only serves to increase passive-aggressive and covertly antisocial behavior. After all, if one is treated like a thief why not steal? if one is treated as untrustworthy why not lie and cheat?

[zizzer]

23. How about...

We stop all the stupid shit with national tests and web cams in class rooms and figure out how to hire more teachers, reduce student to teacher ratios and buy new books for the students.

Why is this even debated? The number one and possaibly single problem with schools today is the number of students per class.

Zizzer

[donco6]

27. As has already been discussed . . .

To lower the student/teacher ratio in just ONE of our high schools from 23:1 (current staffing) to 17:1 (the purported "ideal") would cost more than $1,000,000. And that's only for a 1300 student school.

We might as well say "Why don't we invent an injection that will make all kids geniuses." It has about as much foothold in reality.

[goddess40]

29. I'd be happy with a 1/23 ratio

Our's is more like 1/30 and higher.

[donco6]

30. Where are you?

If you don't mind my being nosy.

[Exultant Democracy]

33. Question...

If we are going to have cameras, should they be with sound or without sound?

[donco6]

34. Could be both, I suppose.

Sound would use up more bandwidth - probably be more expensive. Depends on whether you were wanting to use it to monitor lessons or just visually scan the room.

Why?

[Exultant Democracy]

38. Well if it had no sound

it would still protect a lot of the children’s privacy, and be cheaper. On the other hand the is a convincing argument to be made that with sound it would allow a parents to become more active in their kids educations.

[Undemcided]

35. A good idea.

I generally like the sound of this with the proviso that the filming only occurs with the agreement of the teacher. If he/she is having problems they could then inform the class that their lessons will be filmed. Of course this only deter bad behavior in class and not out of it. I think the biggest problem teachers face is lack of parental involvement and support.

If I got into trouble at school I could expect to receive the cane and then get a whack from my mother when I got home.

[Muddleoftheroad]

37. Teachers

Teachers shouldn't be able to object. They are teaching our kids after all. I can see where most parents would want to check in on classes from time to time. This could truly improve parent interaction in class.

As an aside, you want to make it really helpful to teachers, have two camera per classroom. One will aim at the teacher, the other at the class.

[KamaAina]

36. 6079 Smith W! Hands out of pockets in the classrooms!

Lovely. Basically, between Channel One propaganda and now these spycams, they've simulated the telescreen experience in the classroom.

Funny how fundie schools seem to be immune from this, innit?