Freepers turn on Jordanian Christian lying about faith to save his life

[interupt]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1145180/posts

It's amazing how people wrestle with their faith over a life changing event like someone pointing a gun at you after you hear them gunning other people down who are "Western." 600 posts later and the bunfight still hasn't ended.

Caution: have soap handy. Its hard getting the swamp scum off your skin.
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To: isthisnickcool; hellinahandcart

This guy has just lost his eternal life. He'd better enjoy this one.

6 posted on 05/31/2004 9:07:49 AM PDT by sauropod (Paleo-cons make better lovers)
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Matthew 10:32-33 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

This is the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. Very sad.
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To: DocRock

You guys are nut jobs

12 posted on 05/31/2004 9:10:26 AM PDT by jern
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[Spinzonner]

1. Ignore Comments

from the Talk Is Cheap Gallery

[xchrom]

2. they are insane and evil

and that's the best thing you can say about them.

[DarkPhenyx]

3. Under the Judeo/Christian religion, though...

...they are probably right. It violates at least one Commandment, and probably two.

[interupt]

4. Most likely. Call it a test of faith.

Did he pass or fail?

[DarkPhenyx]

5. I am not the one to judge that.

Nor are the people at FR for that matter.

My opinion would be, as a moderately disinterested Pagan with a decent understanding of Christianity and the Bible, is that he did fail his test of faith. :shrug: That is simply my opinion. It has nothing to do with if I believe he did the right thing or not.

<on edit>

Nor am I sure that failing a test of faith is such a horrible thing. He at least has another chance at passing one next time.

[displacedtexan]

6. I posted something to this effect yesterday...

and got accused of being a fundie Christian.

Actually, I am a devout atheist, but I happen to have an undergraduate minor in Religion; therefore, I was merely pointing out that, according to scripture, denouncing your Christian faith will cause you to burn in Hell: Justus and Pastor were canonized for joyfully submitting to torture and beheading for refusing to denounce their faith.

I was not condemning the poor guy, who (IMHO) did the right thing; I was merely pointing out that it's not an act that most fundamentalist Christians would view as a good thing.

This story has really inflamed people.
I feel sorry for the guy at the center of this ideological storm.

[DarkPhenyx]

7. Another reason to believe in reincarnation.

Yeah, if you screw it up you have to do a cycle as a garden slug. Beats going to hell for sure, and since I'm hoping to get at least one cycle as a drop of rain a garden slug wouldn't be so bad either. :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. So is that why Jesus

built his church upon the Apostle Peter, who denied him three times?

That was one of those inconsistencies in Christian doctrine that always bothered me.

On one hand, they tell all us regular folks that you can't deny Jesus no matter what. But on the other hand Jesus, forgave Peter and went on to put him in charge of his church? Go figure.

[displacedtexan]

14. Jesus said that BEFORE Peter thrice denied him.

Also, Peter redeemed himself by offering to be crucified hanging upside down on the cross.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. But Jesus still stuck by his man

despite the denials.

[interupt]

9. You did an undergrad in Religion?

Wow, I was seriously thinking of doing that with my electives when I went to university, but I needed to take on other IT units, and I was unsure how an agnostic would be taken being in the class.

Probably would have been a challenge for the fundies to 'convert' me.

How did it go for you?

[displacedtexan]

10. I was incredibly curious as to how religion seduced people.

I studied Old Testament, New Testament, Comparative World Religions I and II, and Historical Pastoral Issues.

Comp. World Rel. was the most enlightening course: there is really nothing in the New Testament that didn't already exist in other religions.

Also, the structure of the Bible conforms perfectly to the Greek theatrical play structure.

It was fascinating!

[interupt]

11. Im in awe mate

Its something I would have loved to do. Religion has never been strong in our family, and I had become fascinated by the Evangelical programs in the early morning just for the messages (You have no choice when the baby is awake and your desperate not to fall asleep. The Mrs started threatening me with pain watching crackpots on TV...and bloody hell they were nuts!)

I have made a promise to myself to buy a copy of the Bible, the Quar'an and other religious works and will read them so I know what the whole deal is. Plus I want my kids to get both sides of the story about religion.

I say good for you!, for learning something you really wanted to know about.

[displacedtexan]

21. I recommend starting with The (Thomas) Jefferson Bible.

President Jefferson took a pair of scissors to a copy of the New Testament and pasted the relevant passages (in his opinion) onto blank pages.
It's online at:
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

and it ends with Jesus being buried. Period. Jefferson didn't need a resurrection for Jesus to be the most important philosopher/ teacher (again, in his opinion).

[cestmoi]

32. Tom Harper an Angilcan priest, Prof of New Testament at U of T

and respected Canadian journalist who has very intersting slant on Christianity.

He could be considered to be part of the Progressive Christian movement (the polar opposite to fundamentalists) and well worth reading.

The following is a link to his articles.

http://www.tomharpur.com/articles/index.asp


Info on Progressive Christianity http://www.tcpc.org/

[Az]

18. Look closer at Mark

There is a high degree of parallel with Homer's works. There has been some suggestion that Mark's gospel may in fact be a reworking of Homer's Odysseus and Illiad. Look up The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark by Dennis R. MacDonald for more detail if you are interested.

[Baltimoreboy]

25. Except of course Christ

On whom the whole New Testament is founded.

Oh, and his miracles. And his life. And probably a bunch of other stuff too.

You should have studied more.

[Az]

26. Huh

Could you clarify your statement? Are you suggesting no one ever made up stories about miracles? The only possible explanation is that it had to have happened exactly as the bible said? Just curious.

[displacedtexan]

28. Don't forget that "the church" voted on the trinity and other issues...

like which books to include in the New Testament.

If you believe that God worked through the political ambitions of the church biggies at various times, I envy your faith.

[Az]

12. Its rarely the doctrine that is followed

Instead the beliefs of a particular group adhere to a social perception of what the doctrine is believed to be. Thus some believe that these actions will result in damnation while others believe that only blaspheming the holy ghost results in an unforgivable sin. In the end whichever particular belief is more palitable to the believers is what will propogate.

[ugarte]

13. I am a Christian but plainly see God differently from Fundamentalists

The God I believe in is a merciful God who will not condemn you for saying the wrong words in a moment of extreme stress. The Jordanian told a lie for a greater good.

In any case, God is forgiving. If the Jordanian regrets saying those words and sincerely seeks forgiveness, God will forgive. I do not know how any Christian can argue otherwise.

[papau]

17. true -sincerely seeks forgiveness is the key

:-)

[displacedtexan]

22. the definition of the word 'repent' has been lost by today's Christians.

to repent means to achieve such a higher plane of understanding that it would never again enter one's mind to repeat the original offense.

Consider how most of us as adults would never purposely stomp on a worm or a bug on the sidewalk... something which we might have done easily as children.

Some true believers actually think that merely saying "I'm sorry" will satisfy God. Sadly, their religious teachers aren't doing a very good job if that's what they're teaching.

Remember, I'm an atheist... what I write is my opinion, except when I cite facts (like the definition).

[neebob]

16. It's easy to talk like that

when there's no gun to your head and no, uh, boot up yer ass.

[harrison]

19. I don't know, but I thought Christianity had something to do with

the idea of "grace" which means that God has good will toward you, no matter what you have done and what you do. That's the reason it is grace. It isn't based on what we believe or do. It is free. That's the classic Pauline theology.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Yes, Grace is where it is at

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. The problem with Christianity

is Pauline theology. IMHO, Paul of Tarsus hijacked christianity and destroyed much of the true teachings of Jesus.

It was Paul of Tarsus, who began the process of excluding women from the hierarchy and he made sexuality dirty. He also combined Jesus with his pagan god, Mithra's and turned him into the entity that is worshiped in the NT. Most of the supernatural stuff that christians profess came about because of Paul turning Jesus into a superhuman pagan god.

I do believe, that if Saul hadn't become Paul, humanity would have been a lot better off.

[Stuckinthebush]

23. They have a warped theology

It is so sad to see people who have such a screwed up belief system as these people. They are pious fools who are always ready to point to the sins of others while praying out loud to their god to forgive all of these poor sinners all the while ignoring their own transgressions.

This brand of christianity is sickening.

I am so sad that the loving Christians out there have had their name co-opted by these dorks.

[displacedtexan]

24. Excellent point, Stuckinthebush!

I have Known some really wonderful Christians, who live by the teachings of Jesus, not the trappings of the church.

It seems to me that that less people know about their religion, the more they betray its basic tenets and hide behind its good name.

[htuttle]

30. Somebody needs to come up with a new name for their religion

Either right wing Christians should start calling themselves 'Servants of Mammon, Church of Constantine, Reformed', or non-violent Christians should call themelves 'Yeshuans', or something.

Right now, it's just too damn confusing to have two groups with such differing belief systems having the same name.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. They talk big, but I bet that if they ever were in that position

they'd start blubbering and agree to worship Osama bin Laden or the ghost of the Ayatollah Khomeini if only the nasty men would stop pointing that gun at them.

[LoZoccolo]

29. To their credit, they are debating amongst themselves.

The people that see the Bible as the worlds largest chose you own adventure book and will point out 1-3 verses that support their point, ignoring everything else that may hurt their point.


36 posted on 05/31/2004 9:20:09 AM PDT by inflation (Cuba = BAD, China = Good? Why, should not both be treated the way Cuba is?)

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Peter denied Christ 3 times and received forgiveness.


9 posted on 05/31/2004 9:09:30 AM PDT by DallasMike

[PATRICK]

31. Some catholic history

MOST people betrayed the faith rather than be martyrs. The martyrs in jail would write letters of forgiveness for them, an excellent healing process for their guilt.

Then that became institutionalized as indulgences, abused and distorted like some endless supply of crude oil to tap for the lazy sinner. Then Luther threw it all aside for the extreme demands of unequivocal faith.

Now these guys with no history worth remembering or Scripture worth understanding are going against the spirit of the true Christian martyrs.

All the apostles deserted Christ and he was just as relieved as he might have been disappointed. No one can judge those moments of testing that the Lord's Prayer asks pointedly to avoid and life is more than a single failure but can be redeemed with a single act by grace.

I really do not like this brand of misnamed Christian thugs, these chickenmartyrs munching popcorn while watching "The Passion".