I think Kerry may have turned his back on the Party.

[Bread and Circus]

Sorry, but if he really asked John McCain to join
him as Veep, then he really turned his back on the
party that nominated him.

I like McCain, and even though he should really be
an Independent, he has been a booster for Bush (despite
his occasional dissension) for too long.

Kerry asking him to be on the ticket is inexcusable.

For starters, there are many great Dems that are available
for being Veep. Secondly McCain, despite his likeability
as "the Maverick" and having what appears to be an Indepent
mindedness, is still a partisan hack. Third, being
snubbed by McCain makes Kerry look impotent. Fourth, why
not spend more time on creating good press/good message instead
of fostering a dog and pony show like this?

Even if this all made up by CNN and the fake press we have today,
Kerry did a damn good job of letting it happen.

Since the primaries, I have tried to be supportive of Kerry
but this is just such a huge embarrassing crock of shit.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/11/kerry.mccain.ap/index.html
---
Kerry has asked McCain as recently as late last month to consider becoming his running mate, but the Arizona senator said he's not interested, said a Democratic official who spoke on condition of anonymity because Kerry has insisted that his deliberations be kept private.
---


On EDIT: I know a lot of you are sticking with "this is
just a bunch of Malarkey and it never happened". Let me just
say that I hope so. Nonetheless, why doesn't Kerry grow a pair
and come out and say in no F'ing uncertain terms that JM was never
and will never be asked to be his running mate?

Why is it that just a little forthrightness is so hard to ask for?

[molly]

1. Please - we have enough problems with

freepers getting our members fired. Take a break from it - will ya?

PS - asking McCain is probably a brilliant ploy which he knows will never-ever happen. A McCain VP would be a sure win and you know it. We don't need McCain anymore.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

4. I second that n/t

[Bread and Circus]

8. Kerry turned his back on us....why should I stick with him?

I'm no party hack but for Pete's sake this is total
crap. I'd rather go down in Flames with Dean or Dennis
then put up with utter Political nonsense like this.

Kerry better do something smart quickly before I give
a Democrat another dime.

[molly]

11. Who did you support in the primaries? You sound

like a very bitter loser. Are you?

[babzilla]

52. why the savior waiting in the wings of course

"However, you have a choice. Right now, in the wings, is your savior. He is handsome, square-jawed, progressive, and a true American-hero. Wesley Clark."

Dean Fans, Look Here !!!! Dean Can't Win!!! Here's Why!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5697&forum=DCForumID22

ETA: thread title

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cronus Protagonist]

21. Then you want 4 more years of Bush

You might as well come out and say it.

BLAME BUSH FIRST!

Click here for "BLAME BUSH FIRST", and other fair and balanced yet stunning buttons, magnets and stickers

[sangh0]

25. The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!!

IMO it's just ridiculous to say that because Kerry won't refute every rumor the media reports, it must mean that, gasp!, KERRY HAS ABANDONED THE PARTY!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

30. Been a while since I gave out one of these:

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewEmanuelGoldstein]

64. hmmm

"I guess, after a second Bush term destroys our Army, creates more terrorism, throws millions of American children into poverty, and shreds what little is left of our Constitution, you will just sit back and say, "I'm so proud I stuck with my principles and didn't vote for that bipartisan bastard Kerry"


Kerry seems to think that the way to make sure it doesn't happen is to defeat Bush in the election, then add more people to the military, then put more of them in Iraq, boost the economy and lower the deficit by cutting taxes and increasing spending, and ignoring the laws that he voted to undermine when he gave the PATRIOT act the "thumbs up".

He supports having the same policies Bush does and spending more money to keep those policies. But he's all for gay marriages so he's different then Bush. A vote for Kerry is a vote for a Bush named Kerry.

There is no right or left, it's a 2 party system and the jib is up. Someone finally figured that you can be from one party and just call youself the other and either way you win in the end. People will be too busy arguing and trying to be on the winners side to look at where the canidates actually stand on the issues. People will vote by party rather then on the issues the canidate supports, because they want to say "my guy won".

[I thought so.]

34. Sorry,

Kerry beat Dumpy and the Blowhard. You can always write them in though.

[cosmicdot]

72. who are Dumpy and Blowhard?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

57. Why not just work for the Bush campaign?

n/t

[Swartz]

84. Snicker Snicker

Wow, did this just dawn on you?

[Trajan]

88. This BIG Ole universe is filled with BILLIONS and BILLIONS ...

of political parties (<sarcasm>) ...

PLEASE: ... Pick one for yourself: and stop bothing us with this negative crap ...

If you DONT LIKE the Democrats: then dont associate with them any longer ...

DAMN I hate these "please kiss my ass now or I wont vote for your party' threads ...

FUCK that: the choices are clear as the sky ...

[Swartz]

90. Negative Capt.

Sorry to hurt your fragile sensibilities but I don't pick parties. I think this concept is lame. Politicians are all evil. I choose the lesser of the two. I don't like flip flopping and saying what you think people want to hear. And I do not like religious agenda's and censorship. So I am forced to pick the lesser of the two. I think for myself. I am not a sheep or lemming. I am entertained by the anger and emotion from this site. And I am curious how people think. I visit many discussion forums and they usually welcome different points of view. This is the first one that actually bans people if they offer a different opinion. I am entertained but at the same time worried. I know a little bit about history and this mentality hasn't been good in the past.

I have seen more insults and name calling on this site than I have heard on any Boortz, Rush, or O'Reilly radio show. I thought liberals were supposed to be sensible and thoughtful. I am seeing some cruel and heartless shit. And I am entertained. Thanx.

[Swartz]

93. El Bumpo

[Swartz]

94. .

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swartz]

97. skerry isn't it

[Trajan]

103. You DONT make any distinctions between parties ? ..

Isnt that a rather silly position ? ...

BOTH parties have specific platforms that are quite different, and always have been ...

ONE party supports public education, the other tries to destroy it ..

ONE party wants to integrate church and state: the other tries to maintain a wall of separation like that defined by Jefferson ..

ONE party thinks the nation was formed for the benefit of the rich alone, the other party believes that ALL citizens should be allowed to partake in the benefits of representative government ...

ONE party allows its friends and supporters free reign to exploit and defraud citizens without restraint ... the other at leatst pays LIP service to protecting citizens from the rapacious greed of unpatriotic corporations ...

ONE party promotes war through lies and subterfuge: .. the other makes war only when necessary, and when no other option exists ...

You dont make distinctions between parties ? .. have it your way bud: as if we give a shit wtf the fuck you think ... You will see no ass kissing in either direction ...

Guess what ? ... Im liberal, Im proud, and Im not going to take any shit from lying assholes and conniving deceivers who think that party philosphy doesnt matter, or that lying to make war is ok, or that torture is good, or that the rich deserve to rape the poor ...

Its time to take out the trash, boy: your friends in DC will soon be out of power, and it will be due to those who vote for John Kerry and the Democrats that such a glorious end will be done ...

I couldn't care any LESS WTF you think ....

Now, Begone ....

[TruthIsAll]

56. Repuke dirty trick?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1776597&mesg_id=1776597

[redqueen]

2. Stop being so credulous

"said a Democratic official who spoke on condition of anonymity "

There's a hint in there for ya.

[molly]

7. Could the initials be that crazy cout ZM?

[redqueen]

12. It's probably OMA

'outta my a$$'

[Beatrix]

68. Wait a minute

Some people are calling BS because the original story (supposedly) came from an anonymous source. Now you are trying to deny it with an anonymous source? And don't even post a link to where you got this quote from?

[MissRegina]

3. Did Kerry Really Ask McCain to be VP?

I thought it was only speculation. McCain has said numerous times he has no interest whatsoever to be Kerry's VP.

[Vickers]

5. ' "Senator McCain categorically states that he has not been offered...'

'... " the vice presidency by any one," said McCain's chief of staff, Mark Salter'

yahoo story

[texastoast]

28. McCain has also said

He would not run as a Democrat. In listening to an interview, McCain stated that he was a Republican of the same cloth as Teddy Roosevelt and Abe Lincoln.

I think Kerry is just stirring the pot a little to see which side is gonna boil first.

[Mikimouse]

6. I wouldn't put any stock in this malarkey...

"a Democratic official who spoke on condition of anonymity..."

This just reeks of a plant, which would be typical of the repigs dirty tricks handbook ala Donald Segretti.

[nolabels]

105. Keep on listening, one article I read in the local RAG stated ...........

That Mr. Kerry's campaign had lobbied on six different occasions. Just like they stated from sources in the governemt and other agencies that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction(I new that was a lie from the get go thanks to Scot Ritter) I don't believe SHIT anymore unless I get it from REAL reliable sources, as for my local RAG (masquerading a newspaper, it only gets credit for the advertisement for which I use it for). As for the lies, false information, and planted stories I just ignore them mostly. I don't have the time or any good reason to sift through their B.S.

[swag]

9. You're right. I'm voting for Bush

[redqueen]

13. LOL

You *are* kidding, right?

[Window]

16. ROTFLMAO!!!

.

[Spazito]

10. I think it was a brilliant move on Kerry's part...

he didn't ask McCain to become his running mate, he asked him to CONSIDER it, according to ANONYMOUS sources. If Kerry did, indeed, ask this he would do it knowing that McCain wouldn't take it even if offered. In the meantime, the word goes out and it puts bush on notice, splits the repubs, shows Kerry as a "uniter" and reaches out to disillusioned moderate republicans and independents that Kerry needs onside to win. I see this whole issue as a win/win.

[shraby]

18. The Democratic official who

remained anonymous is probably Zell. :evilgrin:

[Beatrix]

70. Doubt it

Zell pimps for bush and makes no secret about it. I don't see why he would start now.

[lancdem]

22. So do I

There's a brilliant strategy behind this that some people here are not seeing. I've always known McCain would never accept the VP post, and so did Kerry. The whole point of this is to embarrass Bush.

[ronnykmarshall]

14. I need a reason to hate Kerry too!!!

Please someone find a story that he kicked a cat!!!

I just GOTTA hate him! I just GOTTA!

[sangh0]

26. Not only is there a rumor that Kerry kicked a cat

there's proof that it's true:

Kerry hasn't denied it. Obviously, Kerry has (gasp) ABANDONED THE PARTY!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

31. GASP!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!


Aren't ya just sick of this bullshit?


"I just can't BRING myself to vote for Kerry because <insert lame ass reason here>."

[sangh0]

33. I just can't BRING myself to vote for Kerry because

his aura clashes with my furniture

[LittleApple81]

15. KERRY HIMSELF SAID HE DID NOT DENY THE RUMORS BECAUSE IT

DROVE KARL ROVE CRAZY!!!!!!!

[LittleApple81]

17. And apparently he drives other people crazy, like repugs and

gullible democrats.

[emulatorloo]

40. DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!

and it made poor little george bush cry into his pillow every night after Karl told him about it.

[gratuitous]

19. The story belies the headline

"Both officials said Kerry stopped short of offering McCain the job, sparing himself an outright rejection that would make his eventual running mate look like a second choice."

In other words, no offer was made, so there couldn't have been a rejection of the offer.

Why doesn't Kerry come right out and say that? Several reasons occur to me, but here's a couple: Why should he refute every silly rumor that comes down the pike? He's got a campaign to run, and this rumor seems to be self-refuting.

Another: If an association with McCain is a useful tool for positively influencing the thoughts of swing voters, why throw it away? It's unlikely that Kerry voters will suddenly vote for Bush simply because of campaign flirtation in the Silly Season, and some disaffected Republican types might give Kerry another look if McCain seems amicably disposed toward him.

There are other reasons, but those are two pretty good ones for Kerry not to say anything.

[mzmolly]

20. This is mere media exageration - McCain categorically denies the story...

It's right there in the link folks. The media loves a good story, let's not make more of it then we should.

"Senator McCain categorically states that he has not been offered the vice presidency by any one."

[Shakespeare]

23. Play much chess, doc?

If you REALLY think this is more than just a headgame for Rover boy, you're not a chess player. Kerry is, has a long history of it as a successful candidate.

[molly]

24. Yes, he does!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[Rabrrrrrr]

29. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah we're all f-ing doomed blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah kerry kerry kerry blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah doomed I say doomed!!! blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah never ever voting sputter abandoned the party! abandoned!! blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

[Justice]

32. Third Word is Key

Sorry, but IF

[lanparty]

35. It won't happen ...

After Bush falls, McCain will be next in line as a Republican nominee.

McCain is NOT a democrat. He is a traditional Republican. He wants HIS party back. He doesn't want to be a Democrat!!!

[Cleita]

36. Kerry brings very little to the table that I am interested in a

candidate for. McCain brings nothing. Enough already, we need another more liberal Democrat.

[emulatorloo]

41. And Yet The Last GWB Commercial I saw was How JK is an

out of touch liberal, why more liberal than TED KENNEDY!!!!!

McCain was never gonna be the VP candidate, but the rumors make Karl Rove Krazy. For that alone it was worth it to me.

[T Town Jake]

37. Let's see here...

...we're fourth months away from the election, the inaguration is seven months in the future, the man has yet to do ONE official thing in a presidential capacity let alone be elected, and the bitching has ALREADY began? Christ, another circular firing squad thread.

[TexasSissy]

38. Kerry must have let this happen.

If Kerry weren't considering McCain for VP, he could easily have put an end to all this speculation a month ago. Just as McCain did last month, when he stated firmly (I'm paraphrasing), "Let me say it one more time. I'm a Republican. I'm voting for George Bush and will be helping to elect him. No, I will not be Kerry's or anyone's running mate." Couldn't be clearer.

I don't think Kerry would ask him, or even hint at it, after that statement. I saw it personally on TV. He was dead serious. I think it was Meet the Press, and Joe Biden was there, as well.

But Kerry could certainly have made a similar statement and put an end to all this speculation.

Could this be a rumor set in motion by the Repubs? I tend to think so, since Kerry surely knew that McCain would never agree to this.

[emulatorloo]

39. and I Think Kerry may have SCREWED WITH KARL ROVE's Mind

this was a rumor floated to

1. Mess with Karl Rove's Mind and make George Bush Cry
2. Show people who are sick of partisanship show that Kerry is not a bitter nasty partisan like GWB

This was a psych-out move pure and simple. They are playing Chess, not checkers - they are playing hardball w the bush campaign and playing to win.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

42. There was NO WAY Kerry was ever gonna put McCain on the ticket

that's a no brainer

[yardwork]

43. Why do you assume these reports are true? Kerry denies them.

Do you believe everything Rush says? Everything Hannity says? Are you going to come in here next, throw down some lie that Coulter said, and then start yelling at Democrats because you believe what Coulter said?

Are you being naive or are you just in a bad mood and want to cause trouble or are you deliberately here to cause trouble? Give it a rest.

[LittleApple81]

44. We cannot let the BushCo,Repugs,PNAC stay in power. WBWCDB.

I, and other people terrified by the RW, will vote for WBWCDB (Warm Body Who Can Defeat Bush). And that, at this moment, is Kerry.
So, doctor, even if we are not passionate about Kerry, have you thought of the alternative?
And Kerry knows this. He is not going to "cater" to us...No..No.. we don't need catering to. We are going to vote for WBWCDB.
And we must. Well... such is life.

[quinnox]

45. Kerry is doing a bang up job for the Dem party

He is leading in the polls and making smart political moves.

I think there might be an overreaction on the thread starter's part.

[Eric J in MN]

46. Kerry is our only hope to get that CROOK out of the White House (nt)

nt

[ShaneGR]

47. It's gonna be Edwards....

No doubt left really, it's a done deal. Why else would Edwards be on the barnburner of a Kerry fundraising tour he's on. They've had him going for 3 weeks now in Florida, Ohio, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina.

[Cheswick2.0]

48. Didn't you get the memo...this is strategic brilliance on Kerry's part

You are right of course, but joe sixpack is more important than you. You can be taken for granted.

[ibegurpard]

49. yup...totally brilliant

The spin in these stories is NOT in Kerry's favor. By continuing to toy with this "brilliant strategy" he is now in a very awkward position. This is PR for MCCAIN...sets him up nicely should he choose to run in '08 or if they replace Cheney with him. The "no comment" from the Kerry camp doesn't help matters. The Kerry camp should have categorically STOMPED THIS SHIT OUT at the very beginning. Instead they risked pissing off people who were lukewarm on him anyway for gadflies who weren't even paying attention and now McCain gets the glowing press and Kerry looks like a loser. Fucking brilliant!

[quinnox]

51. So if this is so dumb a move on Kerry's part

It should show up in polls in a week or two. Let's see if Kerry is still beating Bush then, or if Bush retakes the lead.

[KoKo]

62. Agree! How much more of this before Kerry starts to look like an idiot?

I vented below on this thread about this...if anyone cares to read what I said...probably not...

[leyton]

50. "Kerry did a damn good job of letting it happen."

Exactly. It was a political move that paints Kerry as the bipartisan, makes people consider the fact that Bush is so far right that he's begun to alienate Republicans, and gives Kerry free press. It was a brilliant move, get over it.

[newsguyatl]

53. i share you sentiments, family doctor

it's a sad statement, indeed, if it's true.


if any of these previous responders are any indication, the democrats are in a SAD state today, and i don't know if they DESERVE to win anymore.

[Monte Carlo]

54. God help us... don't you know a political maneuver when you see it!?

Appearance without action or results? Sounds a lot like politics to me. If you've just got something against politicians and what they do, I'd say that's your problem, not Kerry's.

[newsguyatl]

55. yeh, it was

a REAL smart move to make yourself look like a REJECT to mainstream america... :eyes: what a BRILLIANT political maneuver... :eyes:


he looks like an idiot now.

[Monte Carlo]

59. You think it makes Kerry look like a reject?

Perhaps instead makes him look more diplomatic. McCain is not a no-name in the country.

[Cheswick2.0]

69. not only to make yourself look like a reject.....

but he also makes the democratic party look like rejects because he can't find on to run on the ticket.

I guess we really did run out of democrats.

[KoKo]

61. The constant apologies for what Kerry does and says are wearing thin.

It's getting to remind me of what the American People are told about Bush. Close your eyes stop up your ears and believe we we tell you, not what you see.

While I believe the Media are whores who will do everything to mis-charterize what Kerry says so that one has to parse and investigate every comment out of his mouth to make sure that they aren't lying, some of us hoped for someone "more put together" in message with better campaign managers than Kerry seems to have at this point.

Asking everyone to believe that this constant pushing of Repugs like McCain (and even the James Baker comment he made) as evidence of Kerry's "cleverness" in gaining "bi-partisan" support, as I repeat...is wearing very thin.

I will vote for Kerry if I have to crawl to the polls on my hands and knees, but my God, he is starting to look very foolish and so are those who keep defending him to their fellow Democrats who surely are less harsh than the Repugs and Swing Voters that Kerry is courting.

Sheesh!

[quinnox]

63. It's not apologies that I am seeing

It is disagreement over whether Kerry's offering the vp to McCain is a good political maneuver or not.

You and others say this is bad and makes the Dems look foolish, I and others say this is a smart move.

Like I said in another post, let's see what happens in the polling in the next few weeks to see which argument is right.

[KoKo]

66. You are correct. I will restate. "The constant defense of Kerry's

political maneuverings is wearing thin.

Thank you for pointing that out. "Apologies" was entirely incorrect.

:thumbsup:

[quinnox]

67. no problem

thanks for the correction.

[sangh0]

107. Boo-hoo

Only the Repukes (and now you) think it's inappropriate to defend oneself.

[Monte Carlo]

65. Who's apologizing?

Kerry doesn't have the problem. People who spend entirely too much time obsessing over hypothetical details do.

[Cheswick2.0]

71. whoever came up with this "brilliant strategy"

should be fired.

[SlingBlade]

60. FUCK THESE PUKES

We don't need them, Any of them. There is more than enough talent within the Democratic Party to fill this position.
The day we need ANY of them is the day this party has lost its soull.

Fuck em, Every last one of these Nazis can kiss my ass.

[Solidarity]

77. "Brilliant" Moves By John Kerry?

It seems that some Kerry supporters believe every action he takes is nothing less than a "brilliant" and "masterful" political stroke.

I guess one could argue that Kerry's vote for the Patriot Act was a clever action designed to pull the rug out from right-wingers who might question his patriotism.

And how about that vote in support of the invasion of Iraq? Why that was yet another brilliant move which cut the legs out from those Republicans who wanted to charge Kerry with surrendering to terrorists.

And now we see the same lame defense of John Kerry's alleged political savvy when he attempted (7 times) unsuccessfully to convince John McCain to accept the v-p nomination.

Running a Republican vice-president against a Republican vice-president sounded like real good to some here. A few posters even described it as "brilliant". What a great and novel way to win registered Republicans away from Bush. Run a Republican for Vice-President!

But why stop there? Perhaps Kerry should withdraw and propose running McCain for President and some "moderate" Republican Senator for vice-president as the Democratic ticket against the Bush/Cheney. That would "take away" even more votes from George Bush! Perhaps it could be called the Republicrat ticket in order to win by a landslide!

And you know what? I bet some DU posters (a minority I hope) would defend such a move and try to justify it! You get the picture? Anybody But Bush!

[Gloria]

73. The end result of all this is that the headlines show McCain either

"REJECTing" Kerry; "Turning Down" Kerry; or in Newsday via the LA TIMES, "McCain Ends Speculation...." the latter article has a McCain spokesman confirming the offers and McCain finally closing the door.

McCain taking action, Kerry on the receiving end. Ugh. The too cute game of a couple of months ago resurfaces and winds up with Kerry being rejected. Ugh.

[leesa]

74. Fifth. Why was he at Bilderberg?

[in_cog_ni_to]

75. familydoctor, I can't tell you how much I hate the thought

of McCain even being considered for VP. I hope it's all a ploy to get to Rove, but it's hard to know. McCain and Kerry are good friends. This COULD have happened. I happen to agree with you that this is an embarrassing crock of shit. I know, I know, it's all an act for KKKRove. But still! It looks baaaaad. IMCPO

The Dems don't think they have any "worthy" candidates so, they have to turn to the repub party. Eeeeeeeeeeewe! Sounds awful. Just wait for the Monday repub talking points. This WILL be one and I don't think this is as clever as some seem to think. I think it's destructive to our party. The repubs are going to have a field day with it.....I can't wait. :(

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

76. I find no fault with Kerry considering what MIGHT be best for America

even if I disagree with the consideration. I highly DOUBT Kerry would offer the position to McCain with no strings attached..and frankly since Kerry is the one at the top of the ticket...it is MCCain who would have to ensure people that he altered HIS positions.

That said, I do not favor McCain.

[Solidarity]

78. McCain The Union Basher

I'm sure that John McCain would conveniently change his public positions to help get elected. After all, it's just a bunch of words strung together.

He might even abandoned his union busting and strike-breaking record and agenda!

No, he won't do that. Would you support McCain anyway?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

82. Why don't you reread my post. I made it clear I didn't support the choice

Is your hatred and desire to undermine Kerry such a driving force that it can't help but alter the context of another's words?

Please tell me what purpose you serve here that cannot be accomplished by our opposition?

[Solidarity]

86. Relax!

I'm sorry I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that you would support McCain if Kerry selected him as his running mate but did not favor his selection.

You seem to be all charged up again. Relax!

If you wish to defend all of John Kerry's actions that is your right of course, but please try to avoid constant personal attacks against those who might not agree with you.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

91. it's not a personal attack to say what is so about your posts

I would support Kerry regardless...I'm not voting for Bush and Nader can't win

[sangh0]

108. And Solidarity has posted name-calling

though he'll hypocritically attack others if they do it.

I bet some DU posters (a minority I hope) would defend such a move and try to justify it! You get the picture? Anybody But Bush!

[LittleApple81]

83. After I heard that Kerry DID OFFER to McCain and I have not

heard a denial, I don't think it was a BRILLIANT move on his part.
I was just listening to Steuber, who wrote "Banana Republicans..." and nowI am almost positive that, if KERRY is not able to ABSOLUTELY DENY HE offered this to McCain he is going to have dire consequences. Bullshit with the BRILLIANT strategy.

Book discussed here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1782751

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

85. I am not assessing the "brilliance" of it. That remains to be seen.

One thing I am certain of is that both are much more moderate than the vast majority of their current colleagues and whoever is VP MUST have an arm twisting ability with the Senate and the house (given the close divisions)....in THAT regard, McCain is extremely qualified...ideologically, I disagree with most ALL of his positions...but the avenue back to meaningful discourse and debate demands thinking outside the box.....this is not the avenue I personally would like to be pursued for breaking outside the current paradigm...but AGAIN I do NOT fault Kerry for considering it.

[LittleApple81]

87. I am really sorry, but having Republican and Republican-lite is not

really offering an alternative. Or maybe we CAN'T GET an alternative... we just can get "less bad", even if it is just a tad. I am going to order the book, as depressing as it sounds, I want to be more informed than I apparently am right now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

92. Republican lite while NOT a goal of mine is a win compared to

NEO-CON HARD. I am not a republican...I wish we were running a bit more populist and progressive...but I am a realist who deals with the cards I am dealt...the only way back to the left is to pull from the hard right even if a bit at a time...we went through this during the Eisenhower admin..and came out the other side with a centrist and then a progressive war hawk.....there's NEVER been a perfect choice....not FDR (for his time) not Truman (for his time) not Kennedy

[LittleApple81]

95. Yeah, I reached that conclusion yesterday. For my own use, I

created an acronym for Kerry: WBWCDF (warm body who can defeat Bush).

But, frankly, seeing all the congresscritters crowning Moon in a congressional office, watching the Moon movie where he inserted those congresscritters (amazing), listening to Orrin Hatch apologizing to Ashcroft (that means he has the power to not allow a contempt of Congress declaration against Ashcroft to go through), knowing who attends those Wednesday meetings with Norquist and what the "wedge issues are", confirming that there are no two parties except between convention and election, visualizing Kerry the way he was described asking McCain on bended knee to be his VP...

Then reading about all the news programs this morning playing to the scum that we have for leaders and letting them blabber on about "we didn't just make up the terrorism improvement numbers", following poppy semi-carcass person while he parachute-jumps so they can avoid touching the issues that people should be aware of...

it is just a little bit much for me. I need to strengthen my stomach and my soul to continue supporting the repug-lite because the other option is just too horrible to contemplate.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

99. No worries..I believe there are three parties under the cover of two

Did you read the Harper's article "Jesus Plus Nothing?" It's a long read...11 pps...you can still get it online...there are many many forces attacking the traditional notion of the parties..again this is nothing new...remember roaches scatter when you shine a light on them.

Even when we depart in our thinking, I always appreciate your thoughts.

edited to add the link to the post:

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is_1834_306/ai_98468776

[ScreamingMeemie]

79. I think many have forgotten what the party is supposed to be so

in essence, there is no party for one to turn one's back on. I liken it to being in a holding pattern. There is no one voice speaking for us, so I'm just going to hang on and wait for my party to return. Hopefully, that will happen if We the People hold our politicians accountable. :hi:

[Solidarity]

80. Kerry Asked McCain: No Doubt About It

LOS ANGELES TIMES
Newsday
June 13, 2004

John Kerry had half a dozen conversations with Sen. John McCain about the prospect of him joining the Democratic presidential ticket, but the Arizona Republican repeatedly told his longtime friend that he is not interested, according to an associate close to McCain.

The Massachusetts senator broached the idea with McCain at least seven different times, first raising it about 21/2 months ago, the source said Friday. The last conversation took place about a week ago, the McCain associate said.

Each time, he said, McCain "respectfully declined, but firmly."

Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, was careful not to formally offer McCain the position. But he did raise the prospect of a joint bipartisan ticket.

McCain's Senate office did not return a call, and aides to Kerry would not comment.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usveep0613,0,3940499.story?coll=ny-nation-big-pix

[LittleApple81]

81. I JUST HEARD Steuber "Banana Republicans..." author. Now

I am almost positive that, if KERRY is not able to ABSOLUTELY DENY HE offered this to McCain he is going to have dire consequences. Bullshit with the BRILLIANT strategy.

Book discussed here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1782751

[tedzbear]

89. Kerry is a jerk for doing this.

Why doesn't he just admit that he has turned into a Repug himself? He is getting more and more right wing by the day. I will vote for him to get rid of Bush but if his policies after the election look like Bush Lite I will permanently defect from the Democratic party and become a Green or Naderite.

The Democratic wing of the Democratic party needs to form a new party and break away from the DNC. We can call it the "Real Democratic Party."

:kick:

[lojasmo]

98. too late

He turned his back on the party when he voted for the Iraq war
he turned his back on the party when he voted for the Patriot act
He turned his back on the party when he failed to vote against shrub's disasterous tax cuts.

Oh well.

[pinto]

100. I think Bushco violated the intent of the resolution re: Iraq, by claiming

a threat to our national security, which the resolution required prior to any use of force.

see:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa101102a.htm

<snip>

Resolution Authorizes Use of Military Forces in Iraq
Specifically, the resolution authorizes President Bush to:

use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to--
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and

(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.


ed for spell

[lojasmo]

101. I know the talking points

Thanks. Here's the deal. I knew the rush to war was bullshit when the administration was making the case, and so did 1/3 of our congresspersons. Those who voted for these POS's were doing so for political expediency.

[pinto]

102. Yes, the rush to war in Iraq was b*llsh** all right. What would you

propose we Dems do now in response to this fiasco? Seriously.

[lojasmo]

104. As I said before...it's too late.

Just vote for Kerry (sigh)

[nolabels]

106. It was too late many moons ago

"All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher.' - Ambrose Bierce (1842-1914)"

"They're to our left, our right, infront of us and behind us... they can't get away this time.'- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) "

"I love vegetarians - some of my favorite foods are vegetarians."

http://www.miniluv.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=471