Can a good person be Republican?

[beachman]

Thought that might get some attention, and no, this is not flame-bait or something like that.

I come from a family where my Mom has never, I believe, voted for a Republican although she refused to vote for John Edwards due to his legal work suing doctors. My father is a doctor, and her father was a doctor shot down over Guadacanal, and something of a hero actually in rescuing Marines, but that's a different story.

My Dad is a Republican, although he is leaning towards not voting for Bush. Still, I doubt he will vote for Kerry, but we will see.

We are a diverse family, a preacher and an atheist and believer/agnostic (or less religious) all brothers in the same family.

Well, my question is I am new to the DU, and from hanging out here a couple of weeks, the general conclusion, from what I am reading, seems to nearly dictate the other side as evil, and from a religion as a crutch thread awhile back, I got the impression too that most pretty much consider religious people pretty wacked.

And well, my question is what gives?

I love my Mom, Dad, brothers, and have close friends that are very conservative and very liberal, and very progressive, and very libertarian, and heck, maybe past liberal on the left so to speak among some.

Do most here not have similar associations and friendships?

God forbid that we all choose to be friends based on someone's politics, and if we like people of differing beliefs, might it be the case that not everyone on the other side is an evil monster?????

By the way, I'll be travelling for a couple of days, but will check back then. If you don't hear a response from me, I am not dodging the thread, and if it is not in the archives, which could be the case, I'll respond.

I wanted to post this because it seems there is a certain level of extremist rhetoric towards people of differing perspectives, and coming from a family where we were all raised to think for ourselves and choose our own beliefs, it just seems a little over the top to me.

[Piperay]

1. Yes, I think that a good person can be

a republican. I grew up in a republican home myself both my parents were republicans and they were good people, later they both became Democrats. I have aunts, uncles and cousins who are republicans and they are good people. I just think that they are unenlightened and misguided, I still love them though. :-)

[7th_Sephiroth]

11. i know a good person who is a repub

i wish i were still in touch with her

[InformedSource]

88. My parents live in Arizona, and almost all are Republican ...

...conservatives. They are all good people by most standards. They treat each other decently and are nice and courteous ... until you begin to disagree with them politically. Then they all become like Bill O'Reilly. I have tried calmly saying, "Can we discuss these things without the hostility?" And basically, the answer is no. They can't do it. They feel truly and deeply that no one has a right to disagree with them, and that they have a God given right to be angrilly affronted whenever anyone challenges their point of view, which is really the party line that comes from the Republican attack machine.

But aside from that, they are pleasant people to be around. I don't think experiencing them would be as pleasant for someone from the underclass, or with an openly different sexual orientation.

But aside from that, they're quite good.

I keep my opinions to myself when I visit over there because arguing with them only hardens their positions.

I keep waiting for the communications genious who finds a way to get through to them.

[leftofthedial]

2. If you can consider "good" one who aids and abets fascism,

illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation,

torture,

seizing power in a coup,

murder,

theft of billions, if not trillions of dollars,

destruction of the environment,

destruction of the Constitution,

selling out our future to our enemies,

then, yes. a good person can be a Repuke.

Personally, I think they all are guilty of treason and war crimes.

[djg21]

10. Intolerance on the left?

Of course there are "good people" on either side of the political spectrum. Reasonable minds may differ.

There are also intolerant assholes on either side of the political spectrum, and there are certainly Republicans who don't support the (1) illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation, (2)torture, (3)seizing power in a coup, (4) murder, (5) theft of billions, if not trillions of dollars, (6) destruction of the environment,(7)destruction of the Constitution, or (8) selling out our future to our enemies.

This kind of comment is juvenile and silly.

[leftofthedial]

41. who did they vote for in 2000 and 2002?

If they have aided the bushgang, YOUR comment is juvenile and silly.

The above list is the list of Repuke "accomplishments since the Coup of 2000. If you still consider yourself a Repuke, you are in support of the list and therefore, my statement holds.

[bryant69]

35. Interesting

So what should be done when Democrats get back power? We should pull out the voting records and send everybody who didn't vote for our guy to camps?

Actually when Ms. Coulters last book came out I looked up the legal meaning of Treason, and actually it's a crime punishable by death. So if you think that all of those republicans are guilty of treason, do you favor putting them to death?

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftofthedial]

43. The Repuke party has become a criminal enterprise

Until they repudiate the traitorous war criminals who have seized control of their party and this country, they are accomplices in high crimes.

[bryant69]

So we jail them?

You know any policy that's going to jail that many people doesn't strike me as a very good policy. Plus about 2/3rds of my friends would to jail under this scheme.

And then i'd go to jail for saying it's an abuse of power and that this scheme is just as bad or worse than anything the Bush Administration did.

I mean, obviously if I don't agree with your plan to start executing Bush cabinet members and jailing thousands of Americans than I must be a secret Freeper, right?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftofthedial]

60. I don't know who or what you are.

But if 2/3 of your friends are Repukes . . .

Why would you go to jail for speaking your mind? You still have a few First Amendment rights (at least until your friends' fraternity gets done with our Constitution).

[bryant69]

62. You should take some reading comprehension classes

But, being the generous sod that I am, I'll unpack this a little.

You state that you believe that Republicans are traitors and war criminals and should be punished. Presumably you want to see all the Bush Administration figures tried and put to death. I assume you also want people like the head of the RNC and Republican Party Regional Directors also tried and put to death.

Possibly you'd be satisied with that, but you seem to indicate that those who support the Republican party should pay some price as well. Let's say any Republican local official and anybody who donated more than $500.00 to the Republican Party is tried but goes to jail. That is thousands of Americans, but what of it.

While you are following this Salin-like program, at some point I and probably many other liberals are going to say, "Hey that's not democracy is it. You don't just jail people you disagree with." At that point what do you do Mr. Left of the Dial? Are you going to allow people to publically disagree with you? Why would you? I mean if you are so sure of yourself that you are willing to jail thousands, why not jail those others who question your policies?

[leftofthedial]

70. Reading 101 for you

I said the neocon cabal who seized control of the Repuke party are traitors and war criminals.

I said the Repuke loyalists who helped put them in power and keep them there are accomplices, enablers, aiders and abettors.

I'm not advocating jailing anyone because they disagree with me. I do not want anyone "tried and put to death." I want them tried. The penalties if they are found guilty are a matter of US and international law.

Treason is a crime under US law. I believe (and so do many others) that treason has been committed by members of the bushgang. It's not a matter of my belief versus their belief. It is a crime.

War crimes are a matter of international law. I believe (and so do many others) that war crimes have been committed in Iraq, Guantanamo Bay and Afghanistan (and also possibly on US soil). I want to see those responsible brought to justice. It is not a matter of agreeing with me or disagreeing with me. It is a matter of crimes having been committed.

These people are fascists. those who continue to support them are "little fascists." Like Germany after WWII, not everyone goes to trial and not everyone gets the death penalty. The question that launched this exercise in you showing us that you don't know how to read was "Can a republican be a good person." I say fascists, by definition, are not good people. You apparently like some of them, as long as they let you hang out with them. Cool. To each his own.

So take your "Stalin" strawman and shove it, Mr. Bryant 69.

[bryant69]

72. As is traditional when challanged

The extremist modifies his statement to back away from the more extreme parts of his position. Fair enough.

I do understand that it's more fun to make vaguely threating noises than to have to actually defend them.

[leftofthedial]

73. bullshit

I have modified nothing. Read the posts.

[bryant69]

77. Perhaps you missed the implications of your earlier posts

[leftofthedial]

82. you mean if I consider the words you tried to put in my mouth

NOT what is stated in my posts.

[bryant69]

84. No

Allow me to requote your words to you, since you have apparently forgotten them.

"Personally, I think they (meaning Republicans) all are guilty of treason and war crimes."

"The Repuke party has become a criminal enterprise

Until they repudiate the traitorous war criminals who have seized control of their party and this country, they are accomplices in high crimes."

Remember typing these sentances? So if Republicans, and let's be clear, rank and file republicans, are guilty of treason and war crimes, and are accomplices in high crimes than what am I left to assume?

Treason does have a specific legal meaning, and it is a crime punishable by death. Once you accuse a person or a group of persons of that crime you are, in effect, putting that on the table. Which is precisely why it is so outrageous that Ann Coulter has accused liberals of Treason (although like you she is unwilling to support the implications of what she say. Instead she just pretends that her words don't mean what they clearly mean).

Bryant

[leftofthedial]

45. If found guilty of a crime that warrants capital punishment

for example, war crimes, then yes.

Not all treason is punishable by death.

But trials for the leaders of the neocon cabal would be a good start.

[Raskolnik]

37. Oh really?

You don't think that some people are Republicans because they believe in the professed ideals of the party?

If every Republican was Paul Wolfowitz, I would agree with you. But the difficult truth is that a lot of Republicans are decent, hard working people who are voting against their interests in my opinion. That doesn't make them evil.

I know that its comforting to think that Democrats have a monopoly on good intentions, but it simply isn't so.

[leftofthedial]

48. Oh, you mean stupidity is an excuse

for being an accomplice to treason and war crimes.

I see.

One poster above believes hypocrisy should shield the guilty ("They aren't evil, they're just hypocrites.") and you think the stupid Repukes are good people.

If you mean "Rockefeller" Repukes and they haven't figured out after 25 years of it now that their party and its former ideals have been shanghaied by an ideology that is antithetical to those ideals, they are stupid accomplices. Perhaps some sort of impairment defense would be in order at their trial.

If you mean a Rush Limbaugh Repuke, then I say try them for their crimes.

[Raskolnik]

52. Misinformed.

First of all, Rush Limbaugh isn't guilty of any crime other than being a horrible person using the 1st Amendment to advance his ideas(repugnant though they are). Last time I checked, there isn't a penal code dealing with that.

You've got to realize that some people who vote for Republicans aren't doing so because they hate Arabs or gay people. Some of them vote for R's because they honestly believe that the R's stand for what they say publicly.

I think they don't, and its our job to convince people of that. Name calling doesn't really accomplish that.

[leftofthedial]

55. You mean other than those annoying drug felonies

I don't care who they hate. It's who they have murdered I care about.

[Raskolnik]

64. Yeah, drug charges nonwithstanding.

[merh]

89. Just as I think that lefty's posting is extreme and not representative

of most people on DU, so do I believe that good people are Republicans. The way lefty puts it, all repugs are alike and all are responsible for the state of things, sort of comparable to the goofs of our society that blame all "ragheads" for 9/11 or all members of the Muslim faith for the tragedy. Nothing is absolute.

That being said, IMHO the media has sold out our nation. They have piped the music of the administration into the homes of the masses and the masses so desparately want to believe that America is the greatest nation in the world (and that the Repub party the greatest party in the nation). To believe otherwise is to doubt themselves and what they stand for. They refuse to believe that their president and his admin are corrupt because if that is true, then they made the wrong choice and they are culpable.

The GOP is a huge pyramid scam and alot of people have bought into in the hopes that they can achieve gold or platinum status. But, like all pyramid schemes, the majority of the investors will get nothing for all of their work and the heirachy will see all the profit. If you have ever known anyone who was scammed in a pyramid scheme you will know that they are too embarrassed to admit that they were duped.

Good people make up both the demo party and the repug party. You hear all sorts of rants about evil, that the repugs are evil, because right now the repugs controlling our nation, calling all the shots and lying all the lies are evil. Hitler had nothing on them.

[Lucky Luciano]

91. Very well put

Mr Leftofthe dial needs to read and reread your post.

[Tom Kitten]

3. Very Well Put!

I know some nice Republicans and some not so nice Republicans...same way with Democrats...people are more complex than such mere labeling nowadays!

However I believe anyone who votes for Bush this November is either Anti-American or hopelessly brainwashed...

Emotions boil either way when you bring it up in conversation! Mostly against what this man has done, the point nears where the mainstream has accepted him as a sad faced clown who must go!

[Lucky Luciano]

4. Good post

I, for one have friends from a broad spectrum. I have no party affiliation, but I doubt there will be many republicans that I vote for...On the other hand, I am not at all a big time lefty - probably closer to a DLC kind of democrat. I oppose the war and I am in favor of many of the social issues that people want here. However, I am a fiscal conservative, so I was also in favor of Clinton's welfare reform, for example....By the way, fiscal conservatism should mean that supply side economics be viewed as VooDoo economics - it is BS and it is killing our country. Supply side economics cannot be viewed as fiscal conservatism, but THEFT! That being said, I have radical friends and some friends that are a couple notches below Freeperland....I doubt I would have much in common with a full blown Freeper though. My mother is a radical communist lefty and she will tell you this....we were always at odds politically because I was far more capitalistic, but since b*sh came into office, we have shared a great deal of common ground politically. My mother's friends are universally from the radical left and she chooses her friends partly on their political views - no question about it - I did once meet a friend of hers that was a VP of a bank, but that was an anomaly. When one of her friends in her dance group (She loves country dancing - people tend to be well educated lefties there), who is a lawyer for the NYC government, was doing her job as a lawyer that required her to take a right wing stance, my mother emailed everyone in the dance group to make this person not welcome - I thought that was really lame, but my mother is very firm with her political convictions. The types that only make friends within their political beliefs tend to be more on the fringe...My mother would get along with some of the more radical elements here without a doubt. She will be attending the Clearwater festival in Westchester county in upstate NY this coming weekend as she does every year - that is a HUGE left wing affair and she always looks forward to it. As a kid, I liked going there because of all the sites and sounds and the play areas, but it is not for me now.

[beachman]

5. that was lame

That's too bad about your Mom. I think one can firm in their political convictions without playing the role of ideology-cop and reject people based on their ideas alone. She should know a government lawyer, unless a DA, is probably liberal, but has to represent the views of the client.

The thing about communism is once you set it up as the only way so to speak, it gets even more narrow, and you see persecution of one group of leftists over another. It doesn't stop at just right wingers, but the ideology historically has had a need to find someone to persecute.

Stalinists went after the Trotskyites, etc,...

The old Soviet Union was a miserable place. Went there for a bit back in the 80s, and it was terrible.

[GiovanniC]

6. Some of My Best Friends are Republican

They're wrong politically, but I love them in everything else.

[LibertyorDeath]

7. Can a Republican be a good person?

Hmmm

[Hubert Flottz]

18. I know what ya mean that is a HARD question!

I took me about ten seconds to reflect! And I can't honestly think of any I really like! But then I ain't ever been into turning the other cheek!

[rpannier]

8. If you look at people as dynamic

then, "Yes." Most republicans are good people. Most Republicans are not multi-billionaire, neoconservative, religious nuts. Most are hard working, family people.
There are Republicans I am friends with and there are Democrats who I just hate (Zell Miller for example).
I know some who stay in the party to try and turn it around to when moderates were considered good people and Republicanism was about small government.

[KG]

9. my mom is a card carrying repub.

she's the one of the nicest, most giving, forgiving, tolerant people you'd want to meet.

she's also in her 70's and doesn't understand, nor want to hear about, what an instrument of satan the repub party has become in the last 20 years.

[livinginphotographs]

31. My mother is the same way...

Both my mother and father even marched in Civil Rights marches in the 60's (in Louisiana and Kentucky, respectively), but they became Republicans around the time of Reagan.

My father was always more of a Libertarian, and Reagan was actually the last Republican he voted for, but after he passed away, my mother just turned into one of those Republicans who won't listen to anything negative about Bush. I think her new significant other has something to do with it (he's one of those, "Homosexuals are prone to disease and promiscuity, Saddam helped Al Qaeda, and we should just nuke the Middle East." kind of guys), but I'm hoping to get her to at least vote Libertarian instead of for Bush.

She's still the sweetest, most forgiving woman you'll ever meet, and I love her to death. Unfortunately, we just don't see eye to eye on a lot of political matters.

So yes, since both of my parents were Republican (and atheist, go figure), I think Republicans can be good people. There's a big difference between the old conservatives and the Neocon nazis.

[James T. Kirk]

12. Yes, absolutely.

I know lots of Republicans who are good people.

Don't let the haters get you down.

[Disturbed]

16. Question: Is GW Bush a Republican?

I don't feel that he is.

I have read that quite a few Conservatives do not like BushCo at all.

I feel that some people that are Republicans are good people. They are just wrong in most of their beliefs is all. ;)

[rock]

13. I suppose they could be a "good" person

But they would still suffer from a personality disorder.

[depakid]

14. There were plenty of good Germans during WW II

Coming from a family full of Republicans, I think the analogy is an apt one- incluing all of the connotations that go with it.

[Sabriel]

40. Although I hate the Nazi analogy...

I have to say you have a point. My mother-in-law is a Faux-watching Bush supporter, but she's also a wonderful person. However, her political beliefs run counter to what's in her grandchildren's (MY kids'!) best interests. So f*** that! We've pretty much cut ties with her, based on her political interests. We can't separate what she truly believes in from the way she acts. Judge people by their actions.

I'm sure plenty of Germans were "good people," but look at the end result. Was that "good," too?

Sabriel
(mixing politics and family is a bitch)

[Killarney]

15. Yes, good people can be misinformed and vote R.

There's a couple in my family. :)

[donhakman]

17. Being prone to repetitive suggestion

is human nature and not innately evil.

The level of brain washing has now reached such a level that most people do not need a full washing anymore...a light rinse will do.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. We seem to be stuck on the spin cycle!

I honestly can't tolerate any of the Bush republicans that I know, who are still too unpatriotic or selfish to admit or care what is happening to their country! They will wake up if Bush gets four more years, but by then it will be much too late to save our country from sliding off the cliff! They are helping to turn the American dream into a total nightmare if they vote Republican in November! Bush can only get worse, as he has from day one!

[Killarney]

24. Very good point

The repetitive brainwashing of talk radio is a problem.

My husband listens to sports radio and they are all big-time rethugs and he comes home with crazy ideas in his head sometimes. Good thing he has me to tell him the truth when they spew their lies on sports radio. Not all people who listen to the radio have someone else to give them balance.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Keep up the good work!

I'll welcome anyone who loves their country enough to wake up and listen to reason!

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. My second mom.

I call her that, but she's really just a good family friend. My parents knew them when they were in the Air Force, stationed in Tennessee when I was born.

They met again when we were living in Austin in the 70s. Our family has always spent major holidays with them, weddings, etc. They have been our family since my dad died, since my mom doesn't have that many other relatives close. This woman has the most amazing heart-- she brings home strays all the time. Dogs, cats, people with nowhere else to go. They have 6 kids and numerous grandkids, plus an endlessly changing sea of dogs. Their house is a haven for anyone needing a place to go. I think sometimes it makes them easy to be taken advantage of.

Mom tried talking to her a bit when I was volunteering for Dean, and she would not hear it. They are supporting the president, and that's that. She comes from the group that think it's disloyal to NOT support the president during a war.

In her heart she is the biggest Democrat I know, constantly helping people when they are down (contrary to neo-con logic that anyone who needs help is lazy or a crack whore), but she does not realize how the party has shifted. I have not seen her in a few years, so I have not been able to work my magic on her. It makes me sad.

FSC

[Veggie Meathead]

20. I am the one who started the thread on religion as a crutch.My

intent was diametrically opposed to what you are implying here.It was certainly not to say that anyone with any particular affiliation,religious or otherwise, was evil.My point was how similar
the fundamentalism of Islam was to the fundamentalism among Christians,the difference simply being a matter of degree.In this sense, the Islamic call to Jihad against all infidels was the equivalent, in my opinion, of the invocation of Biblical canons in support of Apartheid, Slavery and the demonization of the dark races.
Hopefully, we have all moved beyond such notions.

I too have friends among Republicans who hold extreme views on these issues and do not think they are evil per se.One of my daughters
is married to a South Afrikaner who comes from a family of extreme
believers in White Supremacy who think that Nelson Mandela should have been executed.

All of us have friends and family like you do.We can love and respect each other despite these differences.We are all products of our life experiences and have to assume time and different life experiences hopefully will make better people of all of us.

[leftistagitator]

22. It's hard to be moderate when the other Party has been in attack mode

for the past 12 years. They layed into Clinton from the day he was inagurated, and they never let up. Even once their guy was in power they only attacked more, quickly labelling all dissent traitorous and un-American. The litany of attacks is amazing... Al Gore is nuts, Soros is a war criminal, Clinton is a war criminal, Hillary is a Lesbian Satanic murderer, Kerry is a war criminal, Micheal Moore is a fascist, Hollywood is fascist, Eric Alterman is a Communist, Max Cleland supports Al Queada, the list goes on and on. And Republicans are generally happy with *, so they must approve of the kind of debate the RNC is creating. And now we liberals are to berate ourselves for no longer liking the people who act like this? No, we are right to view repugs as slime. Of course, I try to judge people on a person by person basis, there are bound to be many nice people in a Party of 50 million, but they poisened the well of public discourse, and us being "Colmesian" about this won't bring honest debate back.

[TahitiNut]

23. No, not any more.

I now tend to agree with Janeane Garofalo that "support of Bush/Cheney is a character defect."

While I strongly believe that all people are "good" and the "good" people do "bad" things based on false beliefs, those who cling to such false beliefs in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary are harboring malice and aggression toward their fellow human beings and their planet. The Bush/Cheney regime as committed incalculable damage to the US and the world - damage that would take decades to repair under the best of foreseeable conditions. But we'll not see those "best conditions" with a complicit Congress and a complicit People.

America is an outlaw nation. We are committing crimes against humanity on a daily basis. Unless and until the senior members of the Bush/Cheney regime are prosecuted and imprisoned for their crimes, their defenders are complicit and deserve the scorn and opprobrium of future generations.

[tom_paine]

25. Good people are in every group.

It's just that the good people have been bullied or silenced by the Imperial Family, who have taken over the Republican Party and turned it dark and ugly and cruel.

DUers are talking about your Leadership, which IS evil, or callous and cruel at minmum. DUers are also angry at the Footsoldiers of Lies, to which ALL REpublicans (which doesn't necessarily make them bad people, just dupes) seem to subscribe in one form or another.

DUers are sick and tired at the eerily Hitlerian echo of the demonization/dehumanization propaganda from the Bushevik Republicans, and desire nothing more than to give it back (FINALLY!) in spades.

Yes, Good People can be Republicans.

Amd I wish the many Good People who ARE REpublicans would have policed your own Party and thrwarted the rise of Monstrous Evil (the Imperial Family Bush and their Allies) within.

But you didn't. Now we are all paying, some with their lives, for their incompetence and cruelty and unConstitutionality.

[Cat Atomic]

27. Did any good people call themselves Nazis?

Not in the 40's, no. In the 30's, sure- there were probably plenty of good people who called themselves Nazis. But once the full horror of what the Nazi party stood for was known, anyone who could still gladly call themselves a Nazi was NOT a good person. Same thing with the Republican party today.

Anyone who consciously throws in with the corrupt and hateful platform the Republicans now stand for is NOT being a good person. I know that's not very PC, but I think it's true these days.

In the last couple of years, I haven't spoken to a single active Republican who's opinions don't incorporate blatant racism and hatred.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. I don't know of any Republicans that I would consider good people.

But I go beyond the superficial. I can see how most people would view some of them as good, wholesome people, but I can't help noticing the small things. For example, how they take more than they give back. On the other hand, I know of one very, very bad politician who considers himself a Democrat.

[AntiCoup2K4]

29. Once again, let's not confuse "Republican" with "Neoconservative"

Republicans can be good people, though somewhat misguided. Neocons are vile shitbags.

[vetwife]

30. its not about good and bad..its about dumb and dumber

Dumb being republican and dumber being a right winged republican

[lojasmo]

32. Abraham Lincoln N/T

[skippysmom]

33. Probably

My father in law and grandmother in law are both Republicans, and they are generally good people. But I have to say I have no respect for their politics. I hate to admit it, but if I meet someone and find out they are a Republican, I often think that their values must be vastly different from mine and my opinion does plummet. I wish I could be a better person, but in this political climate it's difficult.

[seabeyond]

34. AAAALLLLLL the people in my life are repugs

of course they are good people and i love them so and they love me

not a tough one

i mean literally every family, friends and community. i would be a pretty big sh*t if i couldnt find the good in them

[Jabbery]

36. In modern times? ABSOLUTELY NOT

Your question is like asking "can a Klansman be a good person?" Or how about "Are Neo-Nazis okay to go out drinking with?" The answer is NO. Duh! Even if they are just ignorant, mentally-deficient people, self-proclaimed Republicans are advocates of a racist, hateful, anti-American, anti-God, anti-morality, Satanic worldview. They are the very essence of evil. There is no redeeming quality to a Republican, I don't care if they your mom, your dad, your brother, your sister, or your child. Allowing Republicans into any element of your life other than your professional business life is to permit the influence of evil to affect you. My faith and my American citizenship teaches me to shun all forms of evil, and to minister to those who are trapped in an evil, unpatriotic alterative lifestyle (Republicanism). This I do, but I do not permit them to spew their hateful sludge around me. I hate the sin of Republicanism, but I love the sinner and encourage him to seek repentance to our nation and to a higher authority.

[Raskolnik]

38. Disagree emphatically.

Do you honestly think that HALF THE COUNTRY should be labeled as equivalent to Klansmen and Nazis? That is patently ridiculous.

When you engage in hyperbole like that, you really make it impossible to effect any sort of positive change. Good people can disagree with you and I about the best way to make this a better country. That doesn't automatically make them evil or unpatriotic. That just means they need to have their minds changed by rational argument.

And I'll beat you to the punch...I am NOT excusing the actions of W, I am pointing out that normal, decent, everyday people can and do come in all political flavors.

[Jabbery]

44. You disagree foolishly

I don't care if they're the entire freakin' country. Evil is evil. I call evil by its real name. I will never abide racism, hatred, and white supremacy. THAT is what the Republican Party stands for.

You don't negotiate with terrorists. That's what the GOP is made up of - cultural terrorists. They seek to destroy freedom and to destroy America.

Fight the fight to win the fight - or get the Hell out of the way.

[Raskolnik]

50. You are being intellectually lazy in my opinion.

So you are of the opnion that EVERY person who has the 'R' next to their registration is a terrorist Nazi Klansmen? Well they aren't. I'll give you an example, since it only takes one to show you are mistaken.

I have a friend from school that I could not disagree with more politically. He is a Republican through and through, top to bottom. He's also a very smart, good man. (and that's what infuriates me!) He loves his wife and works hard at his job, and recently became a foster parent for a young man he knew from the Big Brothers program. He opened his home because he believed it would help this kid. This kid was almost certainly headed for trouble, but now will have a fighting chance because someone gave a damn. Now is all of that irrelevant because my friend voted for Dole in '96?


And don't pretend that you're "fighting to win" anything. Rhetoric like yours just polarizes the country further and makes real, positive change very unlikely. Fighting to win means changing peoples minds about policy issues, not demonization.

[Jabbery]

54. Wow - I bet he's a "Christian" too!

So your pal the saint supports the GOP platform and the Bush administration, which seeks to end our freedom and to undermine our constitution? I hear that David Duke and Pat Buchanan are deovted family men, too.

Intellectually lazy? I think not. I call evil by its real name. That's not intellectual lethargy, that's truth.

Your pollyanna rose-colored example of your buddy shows just how far down the primrose path the GOP has led our party. You think this guy is a good person because he bahved in a non-hateful manner in one case, and you give him a 100% pass even though he supports a platform and a party that seeks to destroy our freedoms and take away our civil liberties.

But hey, he adopted a foster child, so all is forgiven.

I would suggest that you are far more in need a little intellectual exercise than me.

[Raskolnik]

63. You know you didn't actually address my point, right?

Obviously you aren't terribly interested in any information that may contradict your premise. I know its easier to believe in the black/white good/evil dichotomy of politics in this country, but unfortuanatly the rest of us have to live in the real world where people have honest disagreements about what is best for the country. I believe that the Democrats espouse better policies than Republicans, but you know what? Not every person that disagrees with me is a Nazi. I am mature enough to allow for rational discourse.

In parting, if you think that ALL people who vote for R's are the embodiment of evil, then you'd better be giving money to the Dems and volunteering for each and every candidate you can find. For your own sake.

[bhunt70]

79. I would guess that the amount of intolerance you show

is a trait of something that you hate in other people.

[op6203]

81. Looks like you call it like you see it, too!

And I think you're right!
OP

[The Backlash Cometh]

61. Painted Bird.

The phenomena of Nazism didn't just begin with Hitler. Hitler tapped into something very evil that was endemic at that time. Read the book, "Painted Bird" and you may begin to understand that evil was not only prevalent, but accepted in the mainstream.

[leyton]

39. Wow, I hope that's sarcasm

Just as many here will hold their nose when they vote for Kerry, lots of people will hold their nose when they register as a Republican. Just because they identify with that party doesn't mean they are as bad as Bush. But go ahead and be simplistic, it's to be expected here...

[Jabbery]

46. Wow - that's Reality

You negotiate with terrorists like the Republican party - you deserve the treachery you will get in return. They will take your freedom and laugh at you while they do it. Stand for something or you will fall for Republicanism.

[leyton]

75. Republicans are not the same as the Republican party.

The discussion here is about individuals, not the GOP platform. Remind me again how my Republican friends are terrorists who want to take away my liberties?

[TWiley]

49. Modern Republi-KKKlanz are in control

of the entire party today. They strictly enforce party discipline, so no matter how reasonable or good another republican may seem, it is always one more vote for fascism in the end.

The problem as i see it is that the average republican does not realize just how far his party has moved out from under him. I know several half-sane republicans, and they would almost be considered liberal by their leaders standards.

My general belief is that a true republican cannot be a good citizen. Republicans are anti-social, miserable, suspicious, paranoid, and greedy little despots who suffer delusions of grandeur. Many actually believe that if their sports team wins, it somehow enhances their character or physical prowess. Honesty or truth telling seems to be a real challenge for them as well.

Oddly, most consider themselves "christians" or Christ-like people. Funny, I did not think Jesus drove a BMW, golfed with the scribes and Pharisees, delighted in starving and suffering children, was pro war, racist, excessively capitalist, greedy, spends 400 billion / year for a kill machine, a liar, and a polluting redneck.

Where does their so called "moral authority" come from anyway?

[DoctorWeird]

42. Republican in "Ideology" or "Reality"?

Either way, I guess it has been my experience that Repubs are either "naive" or they just don't give a damn about anyone other than themselves. My best friend is a Republican, as is my husband's best friend. Both are rich kids from rich families who are being educated and will probably never face a day of hard work in their life. When you're rich and thus "successful" it's easy to say "I'm successful because I worked hard" but the truth is, most people are successful because they're rich, their parents are rich, their grandparents, etc. etc. etc. If one is wealthy, one just has many more opportunities in school as well as more connections. Anyway, these two Republicans are further cheered on by religion. Now I'm a Christian, just like them. But I don't believe anything, especially religions, is as black and white as it's made out to be sometimes. To me, there is no black and white, it's all grey. These two Repubs think of things as black ad white. "I think "gay" is a sin and so does he, therefore he's right" . Do they even question Bush's moral resolve when faced with the scandel of Abu Ghraib? No. Because they are not told to.
To sum up, they are not bad people. However, they believe everything they are told without giving it a second thought. If the news says that there has been a "mission accomplished" they believe it. They are told they are successful because they work hard, not like the "lazy" poor and they believe it. My classes are mostly made up of Repubs and they all believe that they are smarter and harder working than every member of the poor out there. They refuse to acknowledge that MAYBE they owe some of it to money or the color of their skin, even when presented with data showing them this. Republicans believe the world is black and white, "you're either with us or against us". Those who succeed like themselves are good. Those who don't are bad. Those with religion are good. Those without are bad. And then there's the other type of republican who knows it's not like that but doesn't give a shit because they get their pockets lined and that's all that matters.

[JayS]

47. Yes, bad and good are to be found in both parties. n/t

n/t

[MAlibdem]

51. Being a Republican is a character flaw at this point

But you can have a few flaws and still be a good person

[porphyrian]

53. Yes, but not if they continue to support current Republican policy. n/t

[niceyoungman]

56. hey leftofthedial

Based on your logic should we assume the following:

All democrats:

1. Have no morals

2. Want to allow women to determine all who should live and die through their abortion decisions.

No, we shouldn't assume these things but your dribble will accomplish more division within this country which is one of our enemies goals.

[graham67]

57. Do most here not have similar associations and friendships?

Yes. I have a father, mother, and brother who all vote Republican. I have to say that my relationship with them has been pretty seriously damaged because of political beliefs.

[op6203]

83. And I have an Aunt who is as well....

But I don't let it get in the way. We almost never discuss politics. Why discuss the crap going on with all the crooks (on both sides) when we can spend time talking about family matters? I don't get hung up on who is with which party. It's a waste IMO. I see the good in the individual regardless of who's button they push on the other side of the curtain. My aunt loves me and my daughter like we were her own kids - and that's good enough for me.
OP

[Cat Atomic]

86. I have relatives who vote Republican.

And every one of them does it for racist, hateful reasons. They don't mind telling you we should "nuke all those rag heads and be done with it".

Anyone who believes that is not being a good person.

[takebackthewh]

87. There's something really wrong with a guy ...

who cares about politics more than family.

[Wapsie B]

58. Yes they can. But

many of them for years were blind to the fact that their party was taken over by the neocons. So many were living in this dream that their party was still the party of Ike. I don't know any that would publicly admit they were hoodwinked either.

I say if someone is a social moderate/fiscal conservative, we need all of them we can get in the gop to rebuild this country. Those people I can work with.

[Lucky Luciano]

93. You can work with me! And I will one-up you!

"I say if someone is a social moderate/fiscal conservative, we need all of them we can get in the gop to rebuild this country. Those people I can work with."

I am a fiscal conservative - interpret this to mean that I am ANTI-Supply-Side Economics because history shows this is NOT fiscally conservative as it creates monumental debt.

The one-up comes from being very socially liberal and anti-war though!

[AngryAmish]

59. No way

THe fascists must be crushed. No mercy.

[rumguy]

65. there are republicans and then there are repigs

A Republican is John McCain. I may not always agree with him, but I know that he isn't a power hungry monster whose sole motivating factor is greed and hate.

A repig is a power hungry monster whose sole motivating factor is greed, hate, and war. Tom Delay is a repig. Rush Limbaugh is a repig. Most of the Bush admin are repigs. Freepers are repigs. They are subhuman, and should be treated as such. They are scum and filth in my book. They would not be welcome in my home...

[SmokingJacket]

66. Of course! Humans are very, very complex.

Plus, what's "good"? Does that mean perfect? What if you're a really excellent pediatric nurse who helps children with cancer and tends to their families and is always smiling, spreading sunshine, but happens to be a Christian fundamentalist who believes that her religion is the only correct one. She thinks abortion is wrong, and so she votes straight ticket Repub.

Now, she's sure doing a lot more "good" in her life than a lot of people. She never hurts anyone -- except by voting. Some of her beliefs are, in my opinion, wrong. Can you say this person is GOOD or EVIL?

No! Things aren't that simple. And thank gawd they're not.

[Raskolnik]

71. Well said.

[patricia92243]

67. Of course they can be good people - not politically savy - but good.

[progressivebydesign]

68. Your Mom is against people suing a doctor?

While I think there are definitely legal abuses of the patient/doctor relationship. I think it's a typical republican kneejerk reaction to attack lawyers who help patients recover damages from a doctor that has harmed them. The level of medical malpractice is staggering.. not just lawsuits, but major medical mistakes.

I think the system should be tightened to protect from frivolous lawsuits againts doctors.. but I never think that blaming the lawyer automatically is a mature way to see things. If I went in to have my gall bladder removed, and they took out my kidney instead, I'd be calling a guy like John Edwards in a heartbeat. It's that instant damming that worries me. Your mother knows nothing about John Edwards personally, but because he represents patients, he's a bad guy.

Your post was interesting, but I think you miss the nuances around here. We don't all think every republican is evil. we think the ones in power that are being discussed here are bad. We think the racist, intolerant, cruel people on some republican message boards are bad. But those people have earned the scorn through either their: dishonesty, racism, cruelty, and greed. Though some people on DU probably go for hyperbole, most of what you read here is a response to a news item, something that actually happenned. It's not just a republican bitch-fest.

[progressivebydesign]

69. Your Mom is against people suing a doctor?

While I think there are definitely legal abuses of the patient/doctor relationship. I think it's a typical republican kneejerk reaction to attack lawyers who help patients recover damages from a doctor that has harmed them. The level of medical malpractice is staggering.. not just lawsuits, but major medical mistakes.

I think the system should be tightened to protect from frivolous lawsuits againts doctors.. but I never think that blaming the lawyer automatically is a mature way to see things. If I went in to have my gall bladder removed, and they took out my kidney instead, I'd be calling a guy like John Edwards in a heartbeat. It's that instant damming that worries me. Your mother knows nothing about John Edwards personally, but because he represents patients, he's a bad guy.

Your post was interesting, but I think you miss the nuances around here. We don't all think every republican is evil. we think the ones in power that are being discussed here are bad. We think the racist, intolerant, cruel people on some republican message boards are bad. But those people have earned the scorn through either their: dishonesty, racism, cruelty, and greed. Though some people on DU probably go for hyperbole, most of what you read here is a response to a news item, something that actually happenned. It's not just a republican bitch-fest.

[BillZBubb]

74. Since no person is all good or all bad: a qualified yes.

The problem for me with all Republicans is the undeniable, pervasive selfishness. I just can't get past that. I could never consider a Republican as a good friend, because I know that in a pinch they would always sell you out in a nanosecond if it helped them.

[annabanana]

76. Neo-cons aren't republicans!

The Elephant has been dragged to the edge of the world and force-fed steroids with fascists yelling BOOYAH in it's poor elephant ear.

[Cat Atomic]

85. Oh yes they are.

The Neocons may be much more overt about their agenda, but the agenda is the same. Republicans operate as agents for big business, and use made-up wars to funnel tax dollars to their corporate donors. They transfer more of the burden to the lower and middle class, and weaken labor.

Neoconservatives are most definitely Republicans.

[bhunt70]

78. Of course they can.

[BiggJawn]

80. They're good to you, but would they have been good to me in the 80's?

Or would they have held the idea that the only thing wrong with me was that I was too damn lazy to get off my ass, stop taking "their" money in food stamps, and go out and grab my share of the wonderful Reagan Recovery.

"Oh....I'm sorry, I didn't realize that YOU were on assistance when I was talking about 'Welfare brood sows and their Cadillacs'..."

Hey, they're your folks and all, but I don't think a good person can honestly be a ReTHUGlican, and vice-versa.

[newsguyatl]

90. no

[mvd]

92. Yes, but..

I think they'd have to be misinformed or ignorant. If there were no good Republicans, we might as well stop trying to bring any out of the dark side. :-)