Clinton's Ego Sticks it To Us Again

[markses]

Hey Bill: Shut the fuck up and get off the TV. We're trying to win an election here, and here you come, hemming and hawing, aw shucking in the most unbelievable manner possible. Goddamit.

Here's a clue: Clinton's policies were far better than Bush's policies, and should have been continued through Al Gore. That's clear enough. Clinton himself is an execrable egomaniac, and does nothing but handicap good policy. As much as the right wing DID wedge on to Clinton's foibles, it is clear that he had and cultivated those foibles. Now he's back, with his usual ego and bullshit, and we're gonna take a hit for it. Fuck you, Bill. Go away.

[Stew225]

1. I'm with you on this! As much as I admire

Clinton as a former President, I have always felt insecure about his team player ability. The ego can screw things up for anyone and his is a big as it gets.

[sniffa]

2. cLinton's penis is at again

and kerry gets an 8 point bounce.

[markses]

6. Unlikely

Clinton the person is the worst we had to offer, however great his policies may have been (and I didn't even think they were that great).

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[markses]

10. That's nice

On most things, of course, the freepers are wrong - and way wrong - but I think they're reading this one correctly. Clinton is a big defecit to us. He was in 2000 and he is again now.

You're not, of course, suggesting that I am a freeper, are you? That would be a no-no, and also so fucking wrong that you can't even see right from their with a Hubble. So you ain't doing that, right?

[kiahzero]

17. Heh... right

Gore's biggest mistake in 2000 was running against Clinton rather than with him.

[sniffa]

24. sorry tough guy

i don't agree with your stance on cLinton. i saw how weLL distancing himseLf from cLinton did aL gore.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aidoneus]

93. He's only one of the most painfully brilliant people here..

Yeah, just tell him to "shut the fuck up" because he takes a hammer to your sacred cow.. Some things I quite night'n'day type of disagree with him on, Kerry for example, but never, I mean NEVER, get onto the wrong side of an argument with him.. See below, I guess. Nevermind that, just shut the fuck up.. that means more than refuting logical arguments, I suppose. I should like to thank Mr.O'Reilly for gracing us with his presence here? :shrug:

[markses]

103. Very kind and very wrong

I'm about the biggest dunce on this board.

That said, I'm always amazed by the people who tell you they're putting you on ignore. These are the same people, I'm guessing, that left little notes around for their college rommates: "Don't forget to put the potato chip bag back in the kitchen after the game!!!" (Such notes always require three exclamation marks, you see...). A more patty-cake passive-aggressiveness I cannot recall. I even had one cat say "You're going on ignore, and you won't be able to respond Hahahahaha!," as if that was some kind of argumentative victory. Just a strange move. I've never put anyone on ignore. Don't believe in it.

[lancdem]

12. No, Kerry is in front by 8

[markses]

25. Let's see where it cashes out after the full brunt of the Clinton

distraction works itself out. My bet: Down.

[wyldwolf]

28. sound like you hope so just to make your point

[markses]

36. That's the same twisted logic

Of the right wing who claim that we hope more soldiers die in Iraq so we can make our point. And I'd have the same answer to the same logic: I don't hope Kerry is down after the Clinton-fest. I think the numbers will go down because I think the Clinton-fest is counterproductive. That's pragmatics. Just like I don't hope another US soldier will die in Iraq. But if wrong-headed and illegal occupation policy continues as is, then surely it will happen. Cut the bullshit. You know the only reason the original post is there is because I think Clinton's ego-fest runs counter to Kerry's interests. So stop making up nonsenses and false accusations.

[wyldwolf]

40. you seem to take great pride in arguing the point

So stop making up nonsenses and false accusations.

Stop making pointless flamebait posts.

[markses]

47. It's not a flamebait post

It's a post about practical strategy among the Dem party leadership.

[wyldwolf]

52. Practical? No

We saw that "practical strategy" in Al Gore's campaign.

[markses]

55. Gore won

Remember?

[wyldwolf]

56. oh, sure... but it was close enough to be stolen... remember?

And dem and repub strategists both said Gore's mistake was distancing himself from Clinton.

[markses]

60. Time will tell, I suppose

At this point, Clinton is - in my estimation - an overinflated windbag of bad juju, sucking the life out of any momentum we may have had. Terrible.

[wyldwolf]

61. Which is why you don't get paid to be a strategist.

[markses]

65. And you?

Let's slow down a bit here and say EVEN if it were true that Gore suffered by distancing himself from Clinton (I haven't seen a GOOD argument to this effect, so much as the so called conventional wisdom of babblers), that would hardly show that Clinton's CURRENT re-emergence is a good thing. Or have strategists started relying solely on precedent, without adjusting that precedent to the contemporary situation and its singular dynamics? If you are a paid strategist, that seems a bizarre way to strategize, and I'd never hire you. If you're not a strategist, then I guess you and I are in the same boat, huh pal?

[wyldwolf]

73. babbling

EVEN if it were true that Gore suffered by distancing himself from Clinton

We can only go by what experts say...


I haven't seen a GOOD argument to this effect, so much as the so called conventional wisdom of babblers

Since you appear to reject the premise, no argument would be good to you and anyone making such an argument would be a babbler.

would hardly show that Clinton's CURRENT re-emergence is a good thing. Or have strategists started relying solely on precedent, without adjusting that precedent to the contemporary situation and its singular dynamics?

Strategists have always relied on precedent and, of course, a "current situation and its singular dynamics" is some of that babbbling you spoke of. So, tell us all what the current situation and it's singular dynamics is?

If you are a paid strategist, that seems a bizarre way to strategize, and I'd never hire you. If you're not a strategist, then I guess you and I are in the same boat, huh pal?

Wow! You really extented yourself there, huh?

Like most occupations, the way the job is done always seems bizarre to people not in the profession and the armchair quarterbacks.

Yes - local level. Moving to state level next year.

[markses]

80. Oh my! A professional!

I didn't realize. I'm blushing. Let me run through it with all possible respect to you, sir. Political strategizing, my my. I'll use bullets!

• I accepted the premise for sake of argument, so I wanted to also lay out the reasons I don't accept it in fact;
  
• I am certainly interested in the data and methodology that shows Mr. Gore's campaign was hurt by distancing itself from Mr. Clinton - I've heard a lot of conventional wisdom scuttlebutt to this effect, but I've never been persuaded; perhaps as an expert yourself, you can point me to something more persuasive than a dogmatic statement;
  
• Since you are the expert, I'd love to hear what it is about the current dynamic that allows you to argue that the Clinton precedent (which I'm accepting here merely for the sake of argument) would work in this particular political environment.
  

Far be it from me to dispute an expert. I'd rather just mine your expertise and learn.

[wyldwolf]

84. more babbling

I accepted the premise for sake of argument, so I wanted to also lay out the reasons I don't accept it in fact;

No you didn't and where did you lay out reasons for not accepting it as fact?

I am certainly interested in the data and methodology that shows Mr. Gore's campaign was hurt by distancing itself from Mr. Clinton -

Google it.

I've heard a lot of conventional wisdom scuttlebutt to this effect, but I've never been persuaded;

Same line of reasoning I hear from conservatives. They use words like "conventional wisdom scuttlebutt" and "elite media" and "junk science" when trying to discredit something contrary to their ideology.

[markses]

88. Oh, c'mon now!

No you didn't and where did you lay out reasons for not accepting it as fact?

Here's the operative phrase, though I'll admit it is a bit subtle: "EVEN if it were true that Gore suffered by distancing himself from Clinton..." That "even if it were true" was meant as "I'll accept this for the sake of argument" - I thought that was fairly clear from the syntax, but I guess not. Did I have a reasomn for not accepting the premise as fact? Yes. Nobody has shown me any good reasons to accept it as fact. That's always reason enough to reasonable people. Your Google it would have to be included in the group of non-arguments. As for the "resemblance" of my statements to that of conservative pundits, I'm not sure what to make of it. Perhaps you are just making it up. I know that when people do not want to argue here on these boards, they call you a conservative or slyly imply that you might be one, although I'm sure no professional political strategist such as yourself would stopp to such tawdry tactics.

[kymar57]

68. OK Markses

I'll throw my 2 cents in here.I think Clinton presided over the best 8 yrs or any pres in my lifetime. That covers some 40 yrs. Perfect? Not even. Totally competent.Absolutely

[markses]

70. I completely agree

Clinton's policies were right for the historical occasion, for the most part, and he was supremely competent, and even at times visionary.

Doesn't change the problem: he should have kept his pie-hole shut until after this election because he is a defecit rather than a benefit to Kerry's election chances.

[kymar57]

96. I disagree

How well did it work out for Al Gore when he distanced himself from the Big Dog?(I know. He won. But not by a large enough margin)

[SemperEadem]

86. spin-out

I don't believe Clinton can do anything to the momentum of the election of the negative nature. I also don't see the point in pandering to the right wingers with topics such as this...

I believe Clinton should speak out more... and let those who insist upon harboring hatred for him (how childish!)to just let them burn themselves out to crispy status on their hatred. It's so tired and played out now. There is no apology that's going to spin the world backwards to before he got with lewinsky, so might as well forgive and move on. Clinton is probably the only dem who is capable of igniting the imagination of voters to the possibilities, instead of keeping us focused on the same-old same-old. No one else, besides Dean, has been able to step up and set fire to the hopes of the nation... and he was allowed to be shut down by stupid people who allowed a non-issue to derail his campaign.

[Carolina]

107. yeah, Gore won

a Pyrrhic victory.

[CatWoman]

67. bullshit. all this is is flamebait.

plain and simple.

yeah -- we have an election to win. that's an undeniable fact. and I think Clinton is here to help us attain that goal.

What are you doing to help us attain that goal?

[markses]

71. T'ain't flamebain't

I do plenty. I give and give. Don't challenge me on my efforts to get Kerry elected. Clinton is going to hurt those chances. That's the point. I won't ask you what you do to help the effort, cuz I think it's bad form and poor argumentation.

[wyldwolf]

81. I'm challenging you to prove your statement:

Clinton is going to hurt those chances.

[SemperEadem]

87. that's not true

Kerry is the most unimaginative candidate we've had in years--next to either Mondale or Dukakis... he needs all the help he can get to win because his sparkly personality ain't getting it. Clinton, Gore and Dean have the ability to communicate to people, to speak to them, not at them---and it seems everyone's trying hard to get folks to wake up long enough to get interested in Kerry.

I'm only voting for Kerry because I dont' want Bush in for another four years, not because I think he's the best candidate for the job. If there was a choice between him and a more vibrant candidate, you can best believe that's where my vote would go.

There is no way Clinton could hurt the campaign.. and if he can, then Kerry's game is weak and he should lose. Nothing Clinton says or does should be able to negatively impact Kerry's campaign if Kerry's got a strong game. That is the point.

[markses]

89. And I'm the pessimist?!?

Holy $#*&^%!

Here I was all the time thinking that Kerry was an excellent candidate, and a dynamic speaker, and this dude comes along and tells me that Kerry sucks, and needs Clinton's help! My goodness! I'm such an asshole for thinking we have a fine candidate and believing that the attention should be on KERY KERRY KERRY from here til November, cuz he's the right choice for this country. I stand corrected and I'm such a schmuck for actually having faith in the strength of the Democratic nominee for President! :eyes:

[Carolina]

110. well put and I couldn't agree

with you more. Kerry needs Clinton and Clinton helps him immensely.
How I wish Kerry had just an ounce of Clinton's charisma or way with words and with connecting to people.

[Carolina]

105. yeah he's so bad, that's why he is the only

Democrat to WIN two terms since Franklin Roosevelt.

If he's our worst, I'd like to see our best! Spare me your tripe.

[movonne]

13. Yes, I think Clinton is good for our party...I guess not all of us feel

this way...8 Points is great, but guess not all of us feel that this is good.

[Jacobin]

3. I enjoy listening to him

I think he's a breath of fresh air.

He's much more cogent and well spoken than that drone running on the Dem ticket now.

So, if you don't want to listen to him, why do you continue to do so?

[markses]

5. Oh, I'm sorry

I actually turned on my television set, and I also connected to the internet and rewad the newspaper. I suppose I shouldn't have done any of those things if I didn't want to see lunatic narcissist William Jefferson Clinton plastered across my conscious landscape. :eyes:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[markses]

15. I've been here for years

Why, should I be gone for some reason?

[BeFree]

16. There's your problem

You're rewadding the newspapers. The newspapers these days should just be used to wrap dead fish.

".... and I also connected to the internet and rewad the newspaper. I suppose I shouldn't have done any of those things...."

:evil smile:

[markses]

18. LOL

Never rewad the papers...;-)

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[MidwestMomma]

46. If Bill Clinton is a lunatic...pass ME some of that crazy!

nt

[LittleApple81]

4. What worries me is that we should not let them use Clinton (one of

ours) to divert the attention from all the BushCo scandals... this is ending up being a Clintongasm like the Reagasm.

[lancdem]

8. You must not have seen that WaPo poll today

that had Kerry pulling in front of Bush by 8. Clinton is not hurting Kerry at all. Right now, Clinton is absorbing all the shots from the RW and the media, giving Kerry a break from being the object of criticism. If that isn't being a team player, I don't know what is.

HWe are not taking a "hit" for it, obviously.

[Southsideirish]

9. Bill, your day in the sun is over. Time to move along now. n/t

[BeFree]

27. There is the difference....

Your post points out another difference between the parties. Nader, ya listening?

The pukes 11th commandmant is never say anything bad about pukes. "Long Live Ronald Raygoon!" they cry. Some dems, on the other hand, rant and rave against our most recent accomplishments.

And they say there's no diff......

[Deja Q]

14. Who needs Nader?

Just as long as Clinton doesn't start supporting any of *'s rabid plans, centrist as he is and being known for doing so in the past. :-(

[slutticus]

19. I much prefer ego...

...to this self-righteous bullshit.

[markses]

29. Self-Righteous? Try pragmatic

n/t

[trumad]

34. No... Self Righteous is the correct phrase

[RetroLounge]

39. Self Righteous is the correct phrase

I agree with you on this.

Self Righteous and self-defeating.

RL

[markses]

51. Yes, self-righteous is the correct phrase

Ooops, sorry. Got caught up in the echo-chamber.

Pragmatic. Get off the fucking television billy boy. The only thing self-defeating is Clinton worship to the detriment of our national interests.

[goclark]

20. Don't Mess With Bill

Don't Mess With Bill
Don't Mess With Bill
Leave my Billy alooone!



I luv me some Bill Clinton any time any day.
I can't wait to see him on my tv screen.

It beats the hell out of looking at the Bush Circus all day long.

[Tosca]

21. Dear Bill,

Shill your book and stick it to GOP rightwingers all you want.

I love it. Go, Bill, go!

[lovedems]

23. I totally and 100% disagree with you.

After the Ronathon reminded me what a terrible President he was and how Bush on a daily basis reminds me of what a terrible pResident he is, Clinton serves to remind me what *A Real President* looks like.

He is a breath of fresh air and I am reminded how good things are when we have a democrat for President. GO BILL! GO KERRY!

[wyldwolf]

31. ah, the nightly "Bash Bill" thread...

...enough of this place. I'm surfing over to DU .... wait! This isn't Free Republic? I'm at DU now????

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

32. First, let me say,

any person with a Foucault picture warrants a listen :-)

Second, the thrust of your post is spot on. Shut up already (which, for me, essentially means that the media shuts up about it all). Do we all not know what the whore media focuses on? The most trite, trivial, sperm-laden nonsense. Just what the populace craves. Clinton should know this. There are clearly bigger and, from our perspective, more politically opportunistic stories to be covering.

Now, to defend Clinton: doing it in June really does us no harm. No one but junkies pays attention right now anyway. And, let's face it, it's fun to watch the right wingers go off the deep end again and again. Better that he do all of this now than later. And, perhaps an additional benefit, it allows Kerry to keep low. His handlers are looking for every opportunity to do so, and this gives them yet another chance.

Your picture reminds of one of the essential stuggles on this board (as I see it): did you ever see or read the Chomsky/Foucault debate? It's always about Truth, power, and narrative. And Foucault hands Chomsky his ass (though I'm not sure Chomsky is aware of it). Anyway, If you haven't heard or read it, give it a listen or read.

Cheers.

[wellstone_democrat]

54. Takes the momemtum of the Reagasm off the table for Bush*

as small as that was, it wipes the collective memory of the rituals of the past week. That is a good thing.

Clinton's book release date in June, as grendelsuncle says, is good as well. Not bad to remind people what a coherent politician sounds like since they eschew Kerry coverage for strange psychoanalytical "think" pieces and commentary within news stories.

Personally, its all to the good. Remind people just how good it was to have a coherent President.

[Spazito]

33. Doesn't look like Kerry agrees with you...

Dems think Clinton can deliver Arkansas and more

snip

Clinton has campaigned for a number of congressional and gubernatorial candidates since leaving office. The difference this year: Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) wants his assistance.


That is especially true here, the state where Clinton was born and where he served 12 years as governor. Arkansas is one of at least 17 states that both sides see as close. President Bush (news - web sites) won Arkansas in 2000 by five percentage points. Many political observers here think the only way Kerry can beat Bush in Arkansas is to recruit Clinton as his surrogate-in-chief.


more

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20040621/pl_usatoday/demsthinkclintoncandeliverarkansasandmore

Kerry: Looking to Clinton for a Helping Hand

snip

Brushing off fears among Dems that Clinton might overshadow Kerry, the campaign has embraced the ex-president's book tour. "He'll mention John Kerry's name at every stop, like he's been doing," said one Kerry aide. "It's basically cost-free campaigning for us." Beyond the book tour, campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill envisages Clinton's raising funds and rallying the base. Kerry himself makes ample use of the former president's name, advisers and record. At a Detroit union hall last week, Kerry won his loudest applause when he invoked the Clinton economy. His team of economic advisers is led by Roger Altman (formerly deputy Treasury secretary) and Gene Sperling (Clinton's longtime White House economist). The same goes for his foreign-policy team, dominated by Sandy Berger (Clinton's national-security adviser) and Richard Holbrooke (his U.N. ambassador).

more

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5251332/site/newsweek/

[Bake]

35. We're trying to WIN an election??

Really? I haven't seen Kerry on the campaign trail in WEEKS. He's raising money? Good. When's he gonna start SPENDING some of it? The only commercials I see are that prick Smirk saying, "I'm George W. Bush and I approved this message." Oh, I know, I know, he's waiting for the convention, he's waiting for this, he's waiting for that, he's letting Bush self-destruct ... BULLSHIT!!

Bill would've WON the damn thing for Gore. NOBODY else is going to energize the minority vote. Sure as hell not Kerry (and don't misunderstand me, Kerry's been my guy for quite a while now!). If the Big Dog is sucking up the oxygen, it's because no other Democrats are BREATHING ANY OF IT ANYWAY!!!

Bake

[mzmolly]

38. I disagree. Any reminders we have of *how things were* just 3.5 short

years ago are fine by me. Also, comparing the eloquent Clinton to the doofus we have in the OO now, is a plus.

Go BILL! I look forward to hearing and reading more. This will be a good thing for Dems.

[NC_Nurse]

41. I also disagree...

Bill wasn't perfect, but he was good...and most importantly INTELLIGENT. It's so good to here someone articulate after 4 years of chimp blabber.
I think he's definitely a breath of fresh air.

[Old and In the Way]

42. Sorry, no sale.

Love to see BC back and going after the RW Wurlitzer. He's a lightening rod for the VRWC and they are now going to have to go on the defensive with the 8 year Inquisition they conducted. People are slowly understanding how eager Republicans were to impeach a President for a consensual sex act, but seem to have lost their outrage for impeaching a President for lying about a causus belli....and 800 Americans have paid the price for that lie.

No, you are wrong about BC in the news...I'm sure JK is fine with the Big Dog reminding people of how well off we were when a Democrat was in charge.

[Catch22Dem]

49. I was looking for a way to say it

Then I read your post. You said exactly what I was thinking.

However, I also want to say to markses; I don't think you need to go anywhere. I've seen you around here for a couple of years now. You're a good person. So you don't like Clinton. I can handle that. I happen to love the guy, but I'm sure we can get along just fine. ;) You said you support Kerry, and that's all I need to hear.

Now, there was someone else in this thread, and I won't name names, but I'm wondering where their vote will go in Nov. Personally, I have NO TOLERANCE for the anti-Kerry crowd. If this person wants to be anti-Kerry, fine, but get the hell off DU. We're all about getting the DEM nominee elected in Nov.

[bowens43]

43. The more of Clinton the better.

We won't win the election without Clinton's help.

Your attitude leaves much to be desired.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

44. No thanks. Keep speaking up, Bill...we need to be reminded by your...

...experiences of being hounded by the NeoCons and we need to use that anger to fuel a win in November.

Yep...Bill's back, and I for one am glad to see him.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

45. This Thread Ain't Nuthin' But Shit

Bill Clinton RAWKS.

DTH, Channelling Jim Sagle :D

[markses]

53. Amusing

Channeling DTH.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

57. Very Amusing Indeed

I could channel you, too, but I suspect my message would be deleted.

DTH

[markses]

58. Hoh! Very very amusing indeed

We go on for hours, don't we skip?

[Bake]

69. I love your avatar ...

... a guy with his hands over his ears ...

I'M NOT GONNA LISTEN!!!

Bake

[markses]

74. Very insightful

Or sumpin'...

I'm listening plenty, friend.

As for the avatar, I rather interpret it as a guy (I know who the guy is, but that's beside the point) grasping his head in exasperation. That's about right.

[StrawberryPinHead]

48. Clinton talking is a good thing

It's bad for the chimpster when Clinton talks. Makes him look like the moronic worm that he is. So it's ok in my book. As for it hurting Kerry? Not likely.

[Catherine Vincent]

50. "Fuck you, Bill. Go away."

He didn't hear you the first time. I think you should say it louder so he can hear you. LOL!

[kaiso]

59. As much as I admire him, that interview last night is not what we need! nt

[Q]

62. You've just become a heretic to the Clinton worshippers...

...and 'conservative Democrats' who think he walks on water. The DLCers are still grasping at straws when they blame Gore for 'allowing the election to be close enough to steal'. You just can't get a DLCer to admit there was widespread election fraud and civil rights abuses in 2000.

- But don't worry about the complainers. They haven't as of yet awakened to the fact that Clinton and his 'third way' was the CAUSE of Democrats losing all three houses. Congress. Senate. White House.

[CatWoman]

63. and WHY should he shut the fuck up?

He has a story to tell. He has confessions to make. He has scores to settle. He has disinformation to rebuke.

Who the fuck are YOU to deny him that?

[markses]

66. I'm just a guy that wants Bush OUT in January 05

And I think Mr. Clinton's little story-telling session is working against that goal. You rather listen to Mr. Clinton's personal confessions now, that's your business. I call a loser strategy when I see one, thank you much. That's who I am.

[Catt03]

82. Bill Clinton was a good president, a brilliant politician

and obviously self destructive.

I don't agree with your assessment that he is as bad as you state in re to being so narcissistic and grandiose. However, I too would rather he keep a lower profile. I agree with Al Gore, Clinton was detrimental to the election of 2000.

We may not think his personal life is such a big deal but in reality, it is. Every president's personal life is a big deal.I haven't read the book and probably won't.....simply don't want to go through that again. If he begs for redemption in the book, then he may pull his re entry into the political arena.

What I also agree with is we want Kerry elected and if that means Bill has to be in the shadows, so be it.

[Pepperbelly]

72. Baloney ...

The comparison is not between Clinton and Kerry but between Clinton and Bush ... and Bush comes out on the short end of that comparison by a mile. Right now, because of the truncated primary season, Kerry has had the nomination sewn up for a very long time. The media monster is voracious and left to their own devices, we see them already begining to clown on Kerry the same way they clowned on Gore. At the very least, while Kerry is laying in the money, this will do nothing but help him.

I think you are listening more to the pundits than is healthy for one's peaceful centering.

[markses]

75. I see the point there

But I think Kerry should be picking up speed now, and certainly not ceding his place to Mr. Clinton and his endless antics. As for pundits, I haven't listened to pundit one in weeks. Can't stomach the fuckers.

[CatWoman]

76. Odd

I don't see the point in this thread.

[supernova]

79. I'm with you CatWoman

I'm not sure where markses is going with this.

Clinton, whatever you think of him, is the best debater we have besides Kerry. I'd prefer we put his energies to good use.

And yes, one of the reasons the 2000 election was so close is Gore chose to run away from Clinton's record.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

77. markses, here's a practical reason to trust Clinton:

because he's fucked these repubs. so many times before, and in every which way. Clinton, to my amazement, is always a step, or four, ahead of everyone else. And I say this as no fan of Clinton.

It's June, bro., maybe, just maybe we give him the benefit of the doubt. I have a sneaking feeling he's laying a trap with regards to Iraq. He equivocated countless times in his Newsweek interview when pressed on the specifics of his "support."

By the way, you're not on my ignore list (no one is, to tell the truth). And the post isn't flamebait from where I sit (but I'm skeptical of anyone's claim to having access to Truth--but that's just me.).

[Auntie Bush]

78. Sorry Markus

You got it all wrong! It's the media and Republicans saying that Bill will hurt Kerry...not Kerry. You been reading too many RW talking points. I love Bill Clinton and It's wonderful to see and listen to him again. Keeps the media critics off of Kerry and he doesn't have to spend precious funds defending himself from Bush/RW/media attacks. They are all busy attacking Clinton and Bush and talking Monica and sex. Kerry can promote himself later when people are listening. Right now Bush is doing a fine job of destroying himself without Kerry's help. Kerry can show how his policies are just like Clinton's and Democrats can fix the economy again. JUST LIKE CLINTON DID! Go Clinton go! Markus...go watch a movie! Don't forget to take your high blood pressure medication!

[markses]

83. Who's Markus?

:shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

85. Oh and btw....

Clinton will only be in the limelight for 2 weeks tops. Things will settle down after that. Get a grip.

[msmcghee]

90. How utterly stupid.

Why would any thinking Democrat suggest that we should shut up about our greatest accomplishments. Bill Clinton gave us an incredibly good eight years, all while under relentless attack from the RW idiot corps.

One sure way to get the muddled middle to think we're irrelevant is to act like they were right to attack him - and that we don't want to mention him.

The pukes beatify Reagan, a real dunce of a president and get respect from the unthinking masses for that. We had a real president who rightly deserves the praise of all Americans who aren't too partisan to see that.

And we need Democrats who know that pride and loyalty are worth including in our campaign. I'd suggest you take your warped values to the other side. But they'd kick you out for this kind of crap - and they're about as far down the ethical feeding chain as you can get.

Maybe Nader could use a good strategist. :eyes:

[supernova]

91. Only if you believe what the RW says about BIll

does your post make sense, markses.

Bill can camgain for Kerry all he wants to. And you bet that's at least part of what he's going to be doing.

[oasis]

92. Bill Clinton knows more about winning in 2004 than anyone on this board.

He will shut up when he's good and ready.

[Carolina]

111. exactly

he knows strategy, he knows how to win. He's the only 2-termer we've had since FDR. He helps Kerry. Go Bill!

[WillyBrandt]

94. Bill--stay on TV. You make Bush look bad.

[Zen]

95. I like Clinton a lot though I do feel uncomfortable sometimes

seeing him on TV now. I wish he could somehow transform into someone with a bit less of an ego and more of a team player.

[Forkboy]

97. "Sacred cows make the best hamburgers"

Abbie Hoffman

[markses]

98. Indeed

:evilgrin:

[Aidoneus]

99. Nice quote

I shall have to remember that one..

I didn't see it before making the hammer reference above. I suspect we think too much alike, it must be all of that time spent with Don downstairs..

[msmcghee]

100. And enough of this crap about Clinton's ego.

It takes a big ego to be a successful politician. The last time we put a low-ego person in office, the pukes chewed him up and spit him out like Folger's in Seattle. They even made a deal with the Iranians to hold the hostages until after the election - knowing that Carter wouldn't make a big deal about it and kick their asses from here 'til Sunday.

If it wasn't for Bill's ego he would have been impeached and we'd be looking at a decade or more of puke rule. Instead, they had to steal the last election - and we've got a better than even chance to kick their asses in November.

Ego's are not bad, per se. When a person with good values and high intelligence has a big ego - you've got what we call a good leader.

We should never apologize for having a good leader. And thank goodness he has a big enough ego to take care of business and not let the puke assholes push him around.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

102. aw,that's not nice

[Catherine Vincent]

104. LOL!

I thought the same thing at first but didn't post it...I figured my post would get deleted.

[Forkboy]

108. And you would be right

[markses]

106. LOL

When my face on TV crowds out Kerry's campaign, lemme know. While I'm sure a large number of undecideds would hate me if they met me, I know that a lot of them hate Mr. Clinton, so there's the second point. My post is thoroughly pragmatic. Your post is strangely touched with...well, it's just a bit touched, as we say. :eyes:

[supernova]

109. How exactly is Bill "crowding out Kerry?"

I'm just asking.

[Moderator]

112. Locking

This thread is clearly out of control and is serving no real purpose.