Why I don't support president Clinton.

[pollock]

Is he really a friend of the Democratic Party? Of Democrats?
One thing missing in his frequent interviews is that his impeachment harmed the very people he claims to represent.
That was us being damaged by his impotence; the stain on his power.
He would not have been impeached if he really was supported by the people.
Clinton personalizes the attack, "I would not want to be Ken Starr...." But that does not explain why his impeachment vote of no confidence.
My take on president Clinton is that he was too loyal to the Corporate State(the King) and always expected to receive favor from that aristocracy when leaving office. He would have had to stake his power in the people to survive--he didn't. And he does not deserve our support.
Was Clinton a good president? Oddly enough, yes. But only because better than what was out there. But ultimately, he is responsible for the nearly permanent legitimacy of the right wing; the Corporate State.

[mopinko]

1. this post

is too stupid to merit an answer.

[pollock]

4. Why? Don't think it was stupid. Is this just fun for you to insult?

[kaitykaity]

8. My thought exactly!!

Again, channeling Darrel Hammond's Chris Matthews: "I don't
have time to tell you all the ways that's stupid."

[tom_paine]

13. LOL! Funny AND true!

[pollock]

19. I see.......insults are funny. Thanks.

[CatWoman]

26. they are not insults

they are crystal clear observations.

[tom_paine]

28. Well said, Catwoman!

:toast: :toast:

let us cease wasting our time on this foolishness.

I have lost whatever patience I had for fools and Tyrants and Imperial Bootlickers.

[pollock]

32. They are insults. But let that be still.

[pollock]

16. Don't follow. Just like to insult for ...what reason?

[kaitykaity]

25. Okay, fine.

"Blaming the victim."

"Vast right-wing conspiracy."

"The Hunting of a President."

"Right wing jihad."

***

Go google them and get back to me.

[pollock]

34. Please. If you want rational discourse we can have that.

If not, not.

[kaitykaity]

39. That presupposes that the original post is in

any remote way an invitation to rational discussion.

It is not.

[ProfessorGAC]

59. Here's A Rationale Response

Since you wanted that, let me try.

Your initial post presupposes that you are correct. The notion that the issue is hurting those he claims to represent is an opinion in search of validation.

Therefore, the crux of your position is that he's not supportable because you think he's not supportable. The damage done by his failings are fatal flaws, but simply because you've decided they are.

Yet, "oddly enough" he was a good president. Thus, your opinion isn't really even supported by your own opinion.

That's why the content of the post is not getting serious attention. It's self-contradictory and not supported by any sound logic.
The Professor

[sangh0]

73. And if you have a problem understanding that, here's a summary

We don't debate pinheads

[redqueen]

81. lol

I feel bad that I'm laughing at that... but I'll be danged if I'm not.

:spank:

[hiphopnation]

103. actually

you ARE debating a pinhead. Stop and look around you. :crazy:

To all those who feel it necessary to refute garbage like this...WHY KEEP POSTING IN THE DAMN THREAD!?!?!? It now has over one-hundred posts and is at the top of the forum. Sheesh.

[sangh0]

109. I stand corrected

.

[outinforce]

110. Why Don't You Answer My Question?

Wny won't you support your assertion?

[outinforce]

127. Why Don't You Answer My Question?

Wny won't you support your assertion?

[pollock]

84. What is this, right wing radio.

[sangh0]

86. If it were

you;d have had your mic turned down a long time ago

[outinforce]

106. Why Don't You Answer My Question?

Why won't you support your assertion?

[radwriter0555]

2. Good thing Clinton isn't running for office!

**whew**

[pollock]

7. Please. Calling an ex president "president Clinton" is common usage.

[Vickers]

12. I believe he meant that it doesn't matter NOW

We are in an election cycle, Kerry is running, Clinton fucked up and was hounded, let's press on.

[pollock]

24. Clinton wrote book. Being interviewed often.

Not seeing what is irrelevant about this subject.

[Vickers]

33. Oh, that's right. You are simply saying you don't support Clinton.

Fair enough.

THEN DON'T BUY THE FUCKING BOOK.

Hope this helps.

Love,

Vickers

[pollock]

46. Who said anthing about buying a book?

And no, condescension does not help.

[Vickers]

124. You said you don't support him. Then you said he just released a book.

So I said don't buy the fucking book.

It's really quite simple. See, I can explain my reasons for posting things...can you?

You seem to have a thorn in your paw about Clinton, then give specious reasons for the thorn, and when called on it you say that folks are being mean.

:wtf:

If you have an untenable position, you have to expect to be called on it. And for Gawd's sake, if you are going to post on a public board, get some thicker skin.

[pollock]

136. specious?

name one.

[radwriter0555]

64. The point is that clinton isn't running for office.

How do you feel about george bush?

[radwriter0555]

56. Oddly the ones in the biggest tizzy over clinton's book, are detractors..

We liberals are interested, perhaps even a little enthusiastic. But we aren't wound up and wigging out like the nazi americans are... which I find fascinating.

Clinton's a good man who isn't perfect. I think his accomplishments far outweigh his mistakes.

We're all entitled to mistakes.

He didn't kill anyone. He didn't hit anyone. He lied cause he was scared of his wife.

Can't say I blame him.

[bossfish]

3. Clinton isn't President right now...

He doesn't need our support.

He was gonna get "impeached" for something, the right-wing went after him hard.

[Vickers]

5. Your logic escapes me on several points

"He would not have been impeached if he really was supported by the people."

The people did not impeach him, the Republican-controlled Congress did. His approval ratings were very high the whole time.

Eh, as for the rest of it, I'll let somebody else take a turn.

[pollock]

10. Vote of confidence.

you don't try to impeach someone you know is popular.

[Vickers]

17. Oh?

Again, your logic escapes me. He was a popular President. He was impeached.

There now...feel better?

[Cheswick2.0]

115. buddy you are way out of your league

give it up.

[Nevernose]

23. 68% during the impeachment, IIRC

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves." -- Henry Kissinger, Secretary of State under Richard Nixon, about Chile prior to the CIA overthrow of the democratically elected government of socialist President Salvadore Allende in 1973.

How the right wing REALLY feels about "the people."

[curlyred]

6. I'm not sure how you can say he wasn't supported by the people

Even during the impeachment proceedings his ratings were quite high.

If you have a link or some basis for your statement, I would be interested in seeing it.

The impeachment had nothing to do with his support by the people. It had everything to do with republican hatred, in my opinion.

[Fenris]

11. He also left office with the highest approval rating.

[sangh0]

9. You convinced me!!

On Election Day, when I vote, my Kerry vote will be a vote against Clinton!!

[pollock]

14. Again. "president Clinton" a common usage.

like "general Clark."

[Cheswick2.0]

121. common usage around here is

kmayppos

[outinforce]

22. sangh0 Has This Habit....

sangho has this habit of putting things into peoples' mouths that they did not say.

Where does pollock say, or even suggest, the voting for Kerry is a vote against Clinton???

[Vickers]

35. *pssssst*

It was a joke. Lighten up, Francis.

:P

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[outinforce]

130. Why Won't You Answer My Question?

Why don't you support your assertion?

Hugs -

Chester

[outinforce]

49. The Name's Chester

and sangh0's post, as near as I can see, contains no indication that she was making a joke.

As far as I can tell, she simply chose, as is frequently the case, to put words into someone else's mouth that they never said.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CatWoman]

55. you're gonna make me start cackling again!!!

:hi:

[sangh0]

Check THIS out Chester!!!

This is how you show affection!!

Surrender, and let Catwoman show you the way to real Sangha-love!!!

[outinforce]

82. Why Won't You Answer My Question?

Why won't you back up the your assertion?

[sangh0]

87. Show us the Love, Chester

Just follow Catwoman's lead

[outinforce]

119. Why Won't You Answer My Question?

Why don't you support your assertion?

Love,

Chet

[outinforce]

58. Why Did You Put Words

into pollock's mouth?

Why did you suggest that he said something he never did?

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[outinforce]

89. Why Don't You Answer My Question?

Why won't you support your assertion?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

125. LMAO!

:D

[Az]

15. Um, were you there?

Clinton's support stayed high even through the hearings. The sole source of support for the hearings came from the NeoCons in the media crying out for blood. Funded by Scaife and Coors they created an echo chamber that assaulted the public. And yet even under this assault the people stayed in favor of the last elected President.

[pollock]

21. Um I was.

[Solly Mack]

18. Oh what a crock of shit.

The impeachment of Clinton was the abuse of power on the part of republican thugs and other assorted America hating rightwingers.

Don't blame Clinton for the damage the impeachment caused this country...blame those who instigated the impeachment for purely political reasons and sour fucking grapes.

Blame those thugs for 8 years of damage they caused this country for their inability to accept defeat.

There's nothing legitimate about the rightwing...which is why they must work so hard at attacking others.

And further fucking more, Clinton was NOT convicted because the people saw through the abuse of power by the republican thugs.

Vote of no confidence my ass...

[pollock]

27. Never said Republicans were right to impeach him.

[supernova]

20. Clinton was acquitted

if you will recall. His impeachment, undertaken for throughly dispicable reasons, didn't harm me in least.

It did harm to the public discourse in this country and polarized it even further. But I certainly don't blame him one bit for fighting it. An illicit blowjob is no great stain on the country.

I'd like to know when we got this idea that sexual virtue was pereferable to competent statecraft, and indeed the only thing that matters in a leader. :eyes:

[pollock]

29. Yes, I recall Clinton was not removed from office.

My point that if Clinton really was supported by the people, Republicans would not have tried it.
Clinton did more to alienate the left in "his" party than challenge the right wing of the opposition party.

[supernova]

36. There was no public outcry

for his removal from office. You're making that up.

The only people screaming for Bill's head on a platter were Dennis Hastert, et al, propped up by the screeching of far right journalists.

If you think Bill had so little support during that time, prove it. Let's see those shrinking poll numbers.

[pollock]

Find anywhere in my post where I said the people wanted him impeached.

[supernova]

74. So Denny Hastert is your personal savior?

Do you pray to the church of Tom Delay every night before you retire?

[pollock]

93. Gods and Devils.

"demonize or deify" Clinton's words critical of how Republicans do things.

[supernova]

102. Yes, and I agree with him

about that.

But I'm not so sure about what it is *you're* worshipping here. And your refusal to answer isn't helping your case.

[pollock]

108. answer what?

worshipping: the truth.

[supernova]

118. Don't be coy

it's not cute on non-virgins.

You haven't done anything in this entire thread except make empty charges and help people chew up bandwith. No poll numbers, no evidence, no supporting documentation. You're empty.

See you at President Kerry's inauguration. :hi:

[redqueen]

62. "...if Clinton really was supported by the people,...

Republicans would not have tried it."

Boy... it's hard to respond to a claim like this without being insulting.

Have you really not noticed the myriad ways the republican party has ignored the will of the people in order to pursue their corporatist agenda?

Really?

[Bridget Burke]

30. Hello, pollock...

There really is a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy. They really did hate Clinton & spent an obscene amount of money trying to bring him down. If you haven't read The Hunting of the President, the movie will be out soon.

The people did not impeach him. As has been pointed out repeatedly, he retained their approval.

He'll do fine without your support.

[pollock]

37. a picture....funny.

I know who impeached him. Let's get beyond this.

[apnu]

48. yes, but what I don't get is...

... what's up with the fish?

[CatWoman]

60. that is a pollock fish

doesn't look very tasty, does it?

[Nevernose]

51. Is this a red herring?

[CatWoman]

31. this thread is bullshit!!!!

[pollock]

40. More insults.

No thanks.

[Fenris]

44. We could really insult you if you'd like.

[CatWoman]

52. bwahahahahahahaha

as the Good Witch of the North said to the Wicked Witch of the West:

"Begone, before a house falls on you, too!!"

[pollock]

54. I expected something more from DU.

A string of insults....why bother? Is this supposed to intimidate me?

[Solly Mack]

65. Oh look, it's one of those "high road" types

Next we'll hear:

"I'm just here for honest debate"

[Nevernose]

71. Yep, this is how it all starts, ain't it? n/t

[outinforce]

77. You Got Something Against

"highroad types"????

You'd prefer, I suppose, that he engage in insults and name-calling??

It is precsiely that sort of behavior -- the type your post seems to encourage -- that gets posters banned from here.

[sangh0]

83. Oh my God!!!

Not only have you left the abortion ghetto to follow me around like a puppy, you've found another obsession - anti-"high road" bigotry.

I predict it won't be long before you're telling us how you feel about taxes

[outinforce]

90. Why Won't You Answer My Question?

Why don't you back up your assertion?

[Az]

91. We could hijack this thread with an abortion debate

Or we could even do 2nd ammendment. I just love those. And the fact that I was nearly in the crossfire last night in Detroit I may just be up for a good gun debate. :bounce:

[Solly Mack]

97. You know, abortion thins the herd

or so I've heard.

[Cheswick2.0]

129. if we could only find the rightwing nut gene

:7

[outinforce]

140. Would That Be The One

that also causes extreme uterus envy, "Dr." cheswick?

[Solly Mack]

146. Should be easy to spot.....one continuous string of

BushisGodBushisGodBushisGodGodsownpartygodsownpartygodsownpartyIhavefallenandIcannotgetup

[Solly Mack]

92. Yes, Chester (it is Chester, right?), I prefer to call a rose a rose.

I prefer to call bullshit, bullshit.

I prefer to point out when someone is being disingenuous. And the taking the "high road" tactic is being disingenuous.

[sangh0]

107. In fact, any propoganda handbook worthy of the name

includes that tactic

[Solly Mack]

111. Precisely!

[outinforce]

123. Why Won't You Answer My Question?

Why don't you support your assertion?

All my love,

Chet

[outinforce]

147. Thanks For Your Comments

Since I know that there are some on this board that prefer to call me Chester, I sometimes let them do it.

It seems to amuse their simply little minds. Go figure.

But, no. My real name is not Chester.

And I have no idea what you are talking about when you lecture me that "taking the "high road" tactic is being disingenuous."

Love,

rose

[CatWoman]

69. we are glad to disappoint

"I expected something more from DU."

[outinforce]

68. I Would Hope NOT

after all, DU has very strict rules against personal attacks and insults.

We are better than those who would merely throw insults around.

[Fenris]

41. That bull is lifting weights on the toilet!

That's a talented bull!

[Terran]

38. *yawn*

Next.

[Democracy Died 2004]

43. Holy hell in a handbasket

Please take your blinders off. Congress owns US not the other way around.. those in power chose to go after pres Clinton for one simple reason.. HE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO WIN THE ELECTION.

[Tim4319]

47. The Bill Clinton impeachment process was a witch hunt.

They spent more money investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than they did investigating the 9/11 attack. President Clinton was still able to handle world issues, Monica issues, and Hilary issues. He will continue to get my support from this day forward, as the best president of my lifetime, and that starts with Gerald Ford, all the way up to the Chimpster!

[redqueen]

50. Whatever...

I hope you enjoy the company of your fellow Clinton-bashers on the OTHER side of the aisle.

lol... 'he would not have been impeached if he really was supported by the people'... lol... somebody wasn't paying very much attention, were they?

Or do you seriously believe that the partisan nutjobs in the House are 'the people'?

Whichever is the case, CatWoman is right... this thread is utter BULLSHIT.

Thanks for letting us know the brand of spin you prefer to regurgitate!

[pollock]

61. this is boring

"deify or demonize." Clinton's words. sad, really just sad.
Thought a more critical evaluation could take place.

[redqueen]

78. Again, whatever

Nobody on this thread is 'deify'ing Clinton.

You keep whining about how people are addressing things you didn't say, but here you are doing it as well.

:nopity:

and LMMFAO... a 'critical evaluation'... of what?!!!! Your meritless 'observation'?!

Thanks for the laugh!

[Az]

80. For a critical evaluation to take place a credible point must be made

Sorry but I think the reaction you are seeing here is based on the flawed assumptions of your post rather than the critical skills of DUers.

I myself am no Clinton fan but your post seems completely out of place. There was the howl from the NeoCon media and there was the reaction from the people. Most people were astounded that a sexual scandal merrited an impeachment. They had no idea what it was even doing being discussed. The NeoCons had gone on a deep fishing expidition and all they could come up with was a blowjob. They had to make it stick so they put everything they had into it. Now you and I may not think Clinton was the greatest thing under the sun but that does not mean you hand him over to the NeoCons for eviceration just because they target him. Show some spine.

[Cheswick2.0]

135. wwaaaaaaaaa

we've bored you. We are so sad. We will never get over it.:hurts: :cry:

[name not needed]

53. This may be one of the stupidest posts in DU history

Wow...

[matcom]

57. knock knock....you still here? hhheeeeeeellllooooooooooooooooooooo

would just LOVE to see you debate Joe Connason :eyes:

[pollock]

66. love

at least you didn't post an insult.

[matcom]

75. only cause you aren't standing in front of me

self edited

[pollock]

79. beautiful. threatening violence.

thanks

[matcom]

95. i didn't threaten you at all

just told you that if you were standing in front of me, i would REALLY insult you

nice try though :eyes:

[CatWoman]

96. he's not threatening you

But I will if you fuck with him.

[pollock]

100. violence from you too.

What happened to DU?

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue-Jay]

63. It doesn't matter if you "support" him or not.

NEWSFLASH: He's not the president anymore!

[pollock]

70. thanks. I didn't know. ha ha.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pollock]

72. More praise for DU.

[Vickers]

99. Some friendly advice: get out of the kitchen

Listen, when you post nonsense threads, expect to be (gently) lambasted.

Let's face it, for the most part folks are trying to leaven their responses to you with humor. They aren't say "Jeebus, you ignorant fuckstick, get your head out of your ass and focus on what is IMPORTANT instead of banty-roostering about how you can't support Clinton" 'cause that wouldn't be nice.

[Scout]

112. procedure is to alert the moderators

if you feel the DU rules are being broken, and that other posters are engaging in personal attacks.

[Lindacooks]

85. And you can say these things after 3-1/2 years of

the worst possible illegitimate government?

Grow up.

[pollock]

88. another condescending post. thanks.

[LTR]

94. Always the victim

:eyes:

I think you need a thicker skin if you're gonna put up flamebait.

Hell, at least Clinton had a thick skin.

[pollock]

98. More condescension.

Expected something else from DU. Yes, I did not know Clinton was no longer president, blah blah blah...

[LTR]

105. Well, if you don't like it...

...nobody's forcing you to stay here.

[pollock]

116. Don't write insults; all I am saying.

[LTR]

120. Then don't encourage flamebait

That's all I'm saying.

Obviously, you didn't read "How to win friends and influence people".

[pollock]

131. Where is sense of responsibility?

Obey the rules of DU by not writing insults and personal attacks.

[LTR]

148. I know you are but what am I?

[redqueen]

117. Read and comment

You posted a comment revealing your absorption of rightwing talking points regarding Clinton's impeachment.

Several DUers on this thread who are NOT FAWNING FANS of Clinton's have admonished you for the stupidity of the claims in your OP, yet instead of arguing the merits of your claims, you play this oh poor pitiful me game. You keep talking about 'deifying' and 'demonizing', yet you're talking to people who have serious (and legitimate) criticism of Clinton - so that's a very weak tactic.

You seem to be just picking out the comments you can whine about... ignoring comments about how the House (which started the impeachment crap) is not 'the people', or how Clinton was actually supported by the public (both then AND now), and other such observations of reality. I guess I can understand... this didn't really work out like you wanted / expected it to.

[pollock]

134. "whine"

this getting boring. Yes, insulting is your right.....

[redqueen]

138. You really think saying you're whining is an insult?

:eyes:

Oh and nice job ignoring the substance to *once AGAIN*, instead just whine.

[pollock]

145. just write your last insult and end this.

[LTR]

101. Why I don't support (P)Resident Bush

Read ALL of it!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104

[Cheswick2.0]

104. This thread ain't nothing but shit

everything you blame Clinton for are actually the fault of the right wing republicans. Which is why I hate them and will never vote for a republican as long as I live.

[pollock]

113. Where did I say Republicans were correct to impeach Clinton?

No where.

[lancdem]

114. I have no idea what you're talking about

He was impeached by the GOP out of spite, after they lost seats in the 1998 mid-term elections. It was entirely political. Impeachment was never supported by anything more than a third of the American people; his approval ratings were over 60 percent the whole time.

[pollock]

122. Where did I say otherwise?

My point is that approval ratings didn't add up to actual political support. My point is that Clinton's centrism alienated people from his own party.

[Az]

132. His centerism is seperate from the impeachment

If you differ with him politically call him for those issue. But trying to leverage opinion against him on the scandal is playing into the rights hands.

The impeachment was an attempt on the part of the right to bury the Democrats forever. It was not just an assault on Clinton. It was an assault on the left. Clinton for all his centerist policies was still left of the NeoCons. He represented the strongest voice of the left to them. In order to destroy any chance of the left coming back they needed to drag him through as much mud as possible.

Argue with Clinton's policies if you disagree with them. But he did not deserve the impeachment. I can defend Clinton against the right in this as it is defending the left from their tactics.

[pollock]

137. where did I say I supported his impeachment?

[redqueen]

133. What?

What is, in your opinion, 'actual political support'?

[pollock]

143. It's like a vote of confidence in Parliament.

You would not call for one unless you expected to win. My point is that Clinton gave too much support to Republicans.
Reagan practically called Carter a pussy, and got away with it.
Clinton never attacked the right wing and he had to. That's where he lost power.

[lapislzi]

126. Why I SO DON'T CARE about Clinton

Please.

This is a distraction. It doesn't even merit the 106 responses that were on the board when I opened this window.

Clinton is no longer the president. He is not running for anything, nor is he involved in public policy. As a public figure, he is interesting. He's intelligent and his book is probably pretty good. So fucking what. No more or less interesting than a new diet or the latest drivel from Survivor.

But who cares whether you support Bill Clinton, really? This is a total NON ISSUE.

Typical. You can't defend your man (or woman), whoever that might be (I wonder...?), so just go right on attacking someone who has been out of office for 3-1/2 years.

Try this: go to www.getoverbillclinton.com.

If that doesn't work, seek professional help.

[pollock]

128. Clinton wrote a book. Clinton being interviewed.

What is so confusing as to why evaluation of his presidency coming up?

[Cheswick2.0]

139. DU really needs a troll pit.

[hiphopnation]

144. i can't believe

this thread isn't locked yet. :shrug:

[terrya]

150. I'm wondering how many alerts have been sent.

:-)

[QC]

141. So does anybody have any good recipes to share?

We might as well try to make this thread somehow slightly useful.

I know a real quick, easy jambalaya, if anyone wants it. Not terribly authentic, but tasty just the same, and very cheap, which is an important consideration these days.

[Skinner]

149. I'm locking this thread.

It's way out of control.

Skinner
DU Admin